Oct 17 nerf :(

[Thornwolf.9721]

Feels like they just want this class to die lol. Constantly pushing its players to the "why do I bother" part of the bus.

[Passerbye.6291]

2 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Feels like they just want this class to die lol. Constantly pushing its players to the "why do I bother" part of the bus.

Herald is the single most sought after quickdps in the game right now, easily capable of providing over 15 stacks of might, permanent fury, 90%+ protection uptime, permanent quickness in a massive 600 radius while also extending all the boons in their subsquad by 3 seconds every 16-20 seconds, having a staff as weapon swap for stupid amounts of CC.

Heal herald is quite good with massive healing capability, only downsides being lacking aegis and less than ideal condi cleanse access which is alleviated by the capability of sustaining a light field and the auto attack chain ending with a whirl finisher. It can easily sustain 25 might, perma quickness, swiftness, fury, protection and regen and do 2k healing per second on everyone simply by camping glint and toggling 4 facets and turning them back on after energy runs out.

Vindicator does top tier damage, being one of the few builds benching 43k, while having amazing cleave (even after GS nerfs btw) and access to massive burst damage.

Alacrity renegade is the highest alacdps in the game right now, benching over 35k.

Can people stop crying about nerfs when their class is clearly good?
Am I the only one who is tired of "Anet hates *insert class here*" posts?
Noone likes having their class/build nerfed, but before making such bold claims, at least fact check yourself so you don't embarrass yourself.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Passerbye.6291

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 hours ago, Jekt.1780 said:

Warrior with no buffs, full berserkers' stats do 974, 1278, 1826. (total 4078)
Revenant with no buffs, full berserkers' stats do 816, 933, 1399. (total 3148)

Both classes apply Vulnerability, except warrior does 24% more damage. 

 

Rev chain has 1 extra stack of vulnerability and chill on the last strike FWIW.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Feels like they just want this class to die lol. Constantly pushing its players to the "why do I bother" part of the bus.

If Anet wants Rev to die they better step their game up and make sure that Herald is not good for Quick DPS/Quick Heal and Renegade isn't a good Alac support with Vindi being among the highest DPS options.

Edited October 18, 2023 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Sereath.1428]

1 hour ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

Herald is the single most sought after quickdps in the game right now, easily capable of providing over 15 stacks of might, permanent fury, 90%+ protection uptime, permanent quickness in a massive 600 radius while also extending all the boons in their subsquad by 3 seconds every 16-20 seconds, having a staff as weapon swap for stupid amounts of CC.

Heal herald is quite good with massive healing capability, only downsides being lacking aegis and less than ideal condi cleanse access which is alleviated by the capability of sustaining a light field and the auto attack chain ending with a whirl finisher. It can easily sustain 25 might, perma quickness, swiftness, fury, protection and regen and do 2k healing per second on everyone simply by camping glint and toggling 4 facets and turning them back on after energy runs out.

Vindicator does top tier damage, being one of the few builds benching 43k, while having amazing cleave (even after GS nerfs btw) and access to massive burst damage.

Alacrity renegade is the highest alacdps in the game right now, benching over 35k.

Can people stop crying about nerfs when their class is clearly good?
Am I the only one who is tired of "Anet hates *insert class here*" posts?
Noone likes having their class/build nerfed, but before making such bold claims, at least fact check yourself so you don't embarrass yourself.

(plus all the other comments referencing pve builds and benchmarks)

These were clearly targeted competitive nerfs. Where revenant is not so hot right now, hasn't been in a while.
All the class changes this patch were because of WvW and sPvP, so what is with some people bringing PvE into this?
Theres more to this game than Golem benchmark racing gameplay.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Passerbye.6291]

40 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

(plus all the other comments referencing pve builds and benchmarks)

These were clearly targeted competitive nerfs. Where revenant is not so hot right now, hasn't been in a while.
All the class changes this patch were because of WvW and sPvP, so what is with some people bringing PvE into this?
Theres more to this game than Golem benchmark racing gameplay.

Looks like I hit a nerve, the post I responded to clearly said "they just want the class to die" a general statement, which also includes PvE, also people do still play revenant in WvW, not sure about structured PvP as I don't do it.

I'd prefer it if you came to me with facts rather than personal attacks, as two can play that game.

Also forgot to mention, 3 out of 4 changes affect PvE as well, interesting claim in the forums of a class who mostly got universal changes instead of PvP or WvW ones like most other classes.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Passerbye.6291
Added a sentence.

[Sereath.1428]

>"I'd prefer it if you came to me with facts rather than personal attacks"
What? 💀
So was my golem benchmark gag a reality then? Ok.

1. And I quoted you directly because whoever you quoted didn't specify if they were talking about PvE either.
If they were, then thats something else, since in PvE Herald is braindead easy and Vindicator was overcompensated for the asinine design decisions on other parts of revenant.
2. "people still play revenant" Again, like I said, people were already playing celestial condition variants way more often than power revenant with greatsword (in addition to my comment on Warrior for zergs), yet they choose to nerf power revenant again, it's like talking to a wall.


3. Others were still bringing PvE benchmarks and builds into this.

And balance does not equal good design.
"Shut up you intolerant, you can still play this exact build with this exact traits for a 50k DPs build, epic gameplay. Same with pvp, full celestial and there you go, enjoy your build that irradiates everything around you with minimal input."

Edited October 19, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Passerbye.6291]

21 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

So was my golem benchmark gag a reality then? Ok.

Well it was clearly meant to be a jab at PvErs so, and yes I do do golem benches and stuff among other things, someone has to carry the 4k dps PvPers when they decide to do PvE content (see I can do that too).

The whole point of reducing target count is clearly meant as a streamlining action, I believe anyone should be able to see that, also that part of the nerf would likely be mostly irrelevant for PvP or WvW unless you are cleaving through minion necros or mesmers who for some unknown reason like to cluster all their illusions together on the same spot, or people are letting you mindlessly walk into a blob with a melee weapon and auto attack them to death. Barring these circumstances, you'll rarely feel the change from 5 to 3-man cap on GS autos and we don't know whether they intend to implement other changes in the future to distinguish GS from sword as it stands it is slowly becoming an inferior version of sword for no reason. So one would guess they have other changes in mind for the future.

The nerf to truestrike is clearly intended to prevent it from doing ungodly amounts of burst damage, which seems to be intended for WvW as you could easily reach the cap of 5 in WvW and burst someone down with little counterplay as you wouldn't need to hold the block long to reach said stacks, making it a lot more difficult for the enemy to react with a dodge/block/invulnerability. One could argue the amount of nerf is too heavy handed but I wouldn't say that change itself somehow removed revenant from the game, which was the point being made that I responded to.
 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Passerbye.6291

[Sereath.1428]

16 minutes ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

Well it was clearly meant to be a jab at PvErs so, and yes I do do golem benches and stuff among other things, someone has to carry the 4k dps PvPers when they decide to do PvE content (see I can do that too).

The whole point of reducing target count is clearly meant as a streamlining action, I believe anyone should be able to see that, also that part of the nerf would likely be mostly irrelevant unless you are cleaving through minion necros or mesmers who for some unknown reason like to cluster all their illusions together on the same spot left and right or people are letting you mindlessly walk into a blob with a melee weapon and auto attack them to death. Barring these circumstances, you'll rarely feel the change from 5 to 3-man cap on GS autos and we don't know whether they intend to implement other changes in the future to distinguish GS from sword as it stands it is slowly becoming an inferior version of sword for no reason. So one would guess they have other changes in mind for the future.

The nerf to truestrike is clearly intended to prevent it from doing ungodly amounts of burst damage, which seems to be intended for WvW as you could easily reach the cap of 5 in WvW and burst someone down with little counterplay as you wouldn't need to hold the block long to reach said stacks, making it a lot more difficult for the nemy to react with a dodge/block/invulnerability. One could argue the amount of nerf is too heavy handed but I wouldn't say that change itself somehow removed revenant from the game, which was the point being made that I responded to.
 

I'd argue that the cleave AA nerf was significant for zerg gameplay since last I checked it was up to 30% of the total damage for Vindicator.
And I do dislike standardization in games a lot, because it's one step before homogenization.
True Strike was very easy to proc in the middle of a blob, yes, however its now even weaker than the sPvP version by a lot, hence my comment about essentially deleting the skill from that game mode. I do both some squad gameplay and roaming, and True Strike is just way too slow and shot range when fighting one single competent enemy player.
Dual swords was already BiS for Power Herald as well, it's becoming a little to much like PvE where GS rarely has a niche.

I'm sorry about that golem gag, last time I made serious design critiques about the class some people kept arguing with "but you can now do 43k DPS by using this exact build! who cares about anything else". Actual copy paste players.

Thank you for taking your time elaborating further.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

55 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

(plus all the other comments referencing pve builds and benchmarks)

These were clearly targeted competitive nerfs. Where revenant is not so hot right now, hasn't been in a while.
 

If it was competitive nerfs then it wouldn't have been an all out nerf to the auto chain's cleave and a WvW nerf.. 

14 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

2. "people still play revenant" Again, like I said, people were already playing celestial condition variants way more often than power revenant with greatsword (in addition to my comment on Warrior for zergs), yet they choose to nerf power revenant again, it's like talking to a wall.

Based on this Willy and Hamburger aren't that deserving of nerfs, because condi/power builds for them aren't as popular as Cele. 

18 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

3. Others were still bringing PvE benchmarks and builds into this.

Because Vindi was nerfed through all game modes. The person you respond to with your "this is WvW PvP only, PvE doesn't matter" comment talked to a person who explicitly said that Anet wants Rev to die, not being meta in WvW or PvP doesn't mean a profession is dead.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Feels like they just want this class to die lol.

Nah, not even close, but good presentation of the usual overreaction of the forum users and "x mains".

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Feels like they just want this class to die lol. Constantly pushing its players to the "why do I bother" part of the bus.

Yeah Revenant ... SO hard done by as a class. 🙄

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

Herald is the single most  (...)

Can people stop crying about nerfs when their class is clearly good?

Noone likes having their class/build nerfed, but before making such bold claims, at least fact check yourself so you don't embarrass yourself.

 Then why not just nerf Herald's quickness? Or Renegade's alacrity? Or Vindicator dps? Because decreasing the cleave of gs is unreleated with the unbalances of those specs...

  Those areas at which "Rev is gud" also, are very niche: instanced content. So since we are talking about minorities, let me write about another niche: PvP. Revenant had no presence at the MATs for over a year. Even players which mained the class and tested Rev in quarters or below sounding the bs random buffs to condi Rev which CmC pushed (and were a complete failure) fastly swapped to another class in finals to not get curbstompeda and embarrased in the fight fora  title. For the last 6 months I don't even see Rev mainers streaming in this class anymore.

   I think is FINE not having Rev in MATs anymore, since Herald was a perennial and dominant force in that game mode for near 7 years. But I don't think is fine that now that belows to the trash can, it keeps getting nerfed in competitive gaming modes at which no longer is meta. Also, I don't see the reason for Vidicator since the main focus with his release was to provide the profession a weapon with good cleave for power builds, and happens that power Revs outside instanced content aren't that great, and now the AoE is again as crappy as were with the swords. 

  So if one asks "which expansion should buy first/spec unlock first" my answer would be "not EoD, since the mount is crap, the masteries are crap and the new weapon and legend irrelevant".  That's what happens when instead of nerfing busted things, you chose to nerf random things. 

[Angesombre.4630]

28 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 Then why not just nerf Herald's quickness? Or Renegade's alacrity? Or Vindicator dps? Because decreasing the cleave of gs is unreleated with the unbalances of those specs...

As much as I agree with herald, I wouldn't have minded having to put a concentration stuff for better efficiency rather than what they've done, as much as you need concentration for alacrity. But rather than nerf, why not improve the other classes so they're easier to use.

For vindicator you have a good dps, how long has this specialization been the worst in EoD since the beta? And it still has a lot of bugs. It's good until the next nerf.

It's still a 2nd GS nerf in a short space of time.

[unknown.8952]

nerf to the true strike is????? I hit like 4-5k on full zerk

 

[Aeolus.3615]

23 hours ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

Herald is the single most sought after quickdps in the game right now, easily capable of providing over 15 stacks of might, permanent fury, 90%+ protection uptime, permanent quickness in a massive 600 radius while also extending all the boons in their subsquad by 3 seconds every 16-20 seconds, having a staff as weapon swap for stupid amounts of CC.

Heal herald is quite good with massive healing capability, only downsides being lacking aegis and less than ideal condi cleanse access which is alleviated by the capability of sustaining a light field and the auto attack chain ending with a whirl finisher. It can easily sustain 25 might, perma quickness, swiftness, fury, protection and regen and do 2k healing per second on everyone simply by camping glint and toggling 4 facets and turning them back on after energy runs out.

Vindicator does top tier damage, being one of the few builds benching 43k, while having amazing cleave (even after GS nerfs btw) and access to massive burst damage.

Alacrity renegade is the highest alacdps in the game right now, benching over 35k.

Can people stop crying about nerfs when their class is clearly good?
Am I the only one who is tired of "Anet hates *insert class here*" posts?
Noone likes having their class/build nerfed, but before making such bold claims, at least fact check yourself so you don't embarrass yourself.

Herald support was actually nerfed and by alot 🙂 due how Anet  favor vindicator over other Rev specs, meanwhile Vindicator now is putting way more heals on the fields, vindi dodge can be almost perma used    and that alone will aplly:

-Condi removal

-Protection

-Heals

- Barrier

- heal output boost

-vigor "dots" per condi cleansed

 

Anet could unerf the regen values they nerfed on Herald (regen is the weakest healing on pvp anyway since is a boon). at least values are inferior or maybe they borked up the calculation of it.

I tend to use zealots stats, squishy with some damage and  decent team health support, Anet think every player will use minstrell  and part of the zerg and nerf stuff... kitten lammers.

I dont do pve so the quickness changes are more negative than positive changes.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[GenerationX.9178]

As long time vindi player. I could see the nerf to the auto attack chain. I dont see why gs 4 block followed by true stike got hit so hard...its really akward skill in pvp/wvw was easy to counter. I cant speak for pve. If you want to balance rev anet should look into the salvation trait line because it is what really busts lot rev builds. Whole time ive played vindi the dodge skills so clunky and glitchs lot for me personally. Stuck in animation while people still attack me. I think dodge would be better off looking like a normal dodge, not just for vindi but people fighting vindi. Also to people that are commenting on why pvers should not have word, this rev form for everyone not just pve or wvw/pvp. Lot players pve/pvp/wvw

[arazoth.7290]

31 minutes ago, GenerationX.9178 said:

As long time vindi player. I could see the nerf to the auto attack chain. I dont see why gs 4 block followed by true stike got hit so hard...its really akward skill in pvp/wvw was easy to counter. I cant speak for pve. If you want to balance rev anet should look into the salvation trait line because it is what really busts lot rev builds. Whole time ive played vindi the dodge skills so clunky and glitchs lot for me personally. Stuck in animation while people still attack me. I think dodge would be better off looking like a normal dodge, not just for vindi but people fighting vindi. Also to people that are commenting on why pvers should not have word, this rev form for everyone not just pve or wvw/pvp. Lot players pve/pvp/wvw

That is because salvation is the most recent well tuned traitline compared to the others, which are less. Don't compare a traitline that is decent vs crap ones because that's what is happening atm. Devastation needs to get looked back in and same for retribution. Corruption and invocation traitlines are allright, few changes maybe idk but that's it.

 

[Sereath.1428]

6 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

That is because salvation is the most recent well tuned traitline compared to the others, which are less. Don't compare a traitline that is decent vs crap ones because that's what is happening atm. Devastation needs to get looked back in and same for retribution. Corruption and invocation traitlines are allright, few changes maybe idk but that's it.

 

Yeah, I was going to say that.

Is Revenant never supposed to run defensive traitlines, just full glass like most of its run with Power Herald?

1. Devastation is one of the most uninspired traitlines I've seen. Mostly just there for free damage which is just mundane. Battle Scars with a damage and healing value of 60 is comedy.
2. Retribution hasn't been a thing in a very long time now. And while it's slightly more interesting than Devastation, it's just mediocre at everything. Poor damage, poor sustain, poor utility.

And Salvation has reliable access to condi cleanse (by burning dodges), something revenants have always had terrible access to. Are people still surprised that revenants want this as an answer to the constant barrage of conditions? (not only for the damaging ones, but also for the soft cc ones such as blindness and weakness) 

The only remotely "competitive" sPvP revenant builds all use Salvation (and yet no MAT team has won 1st place with any kind of revenant). I wonder why? ...
Imagine trying to play against decently competitive players these days without reliable sustain and condi cleanse.
(No mention here of WvW since Celestial completely kittens up the whole balance)

If anyone has any clips/a channel of high-level gameplay with revenant running either Devastation (zzz again) or better yet, Retribution, and not playing the same +1 role they have for the last 7+ years, please share them.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, GenerationX.9178 said:

 If you want to balance rev anet should look into the salvation trait line because it is what really busts lot rev builds.

   What you need to look? Salvation and Invocation are played due everything else is garbage. Nuke salvation and people will just stop playing Rev (I've already stopped, at some game modes).

   This is like when people complained about everyone running Divinity runes: was not beacuse they were op but because everything else sucked. 

   Also, they did "so well" with the redesign of runes that in PvE everyone and every spec in the game is running 2 runes (three is you accidentally made a healer). Game had nevel less variety than now.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Miles Smiles.8951]

17 hours ago, gimmick.1845 said:

nerf to the true strike is????? I hit like 4-5k on full zerk

 

Seems to be bugged, yeah, upvote pls: 

 

[Justine.6351]

On 10/17/2023 at 6:28 PM, Buran.3796 said:

I just finished my last 10 PvP matches as a Revenant. I won't touch again this class in PvP. From there only roaming and OW for Rev.

For my Rev it's only queensdale rofl. Love renegade summons for clearing bandits.

[morsdood.1987]

Any Rev main with half a brain knows these changes don't matter, with the low cooldowns of 2 and 3 how often are you really autoattacking 3+ targets enough for these changes to matter? Yep, almost never, so boss encounters don't change and trash packs will still crumble to 5, 2 and if you're feeling crazy 3

[Master Ketsu.4569]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:28 AM, Sereath.1428 said:

Hahah, more GS nerfs, fascinating.

Out of nowhere True Strike got deleted from WvW, which is odd since most revenants were instead already running kittenous condition Celestial builds for small scale and for blobs warriors have been way better at killing and bursting down a large number of players from much longer ranges.

Game design is indeed hard, poor company with no money.

It's a casual-pandering change.

True strike is/was an extremely powerful skill, but with the caveat that it is only OP when used against EXTREMELY BAD players. 

It could oneshot people, but only if you built up 5 charges and they were dumb enough to stay in range of one of the slowest attacks in the game. So in order to actually get hit with a fully charged True strike, a player has to commit several noob mistakes in a row ( 1. Failure to notice to stupidly obvious block animation, 2. Failure to stow weapons against the block causing it to fully charge, 3. Facetanking the rev while he is blocking, 4. Failure to kite the true strike, 5. Failure to dodge/block if you failed to kite it ) Only by making all 5 mistakes in a row do you actually get hit with a full powered True strike, which is why almost no one on the forums can be seen complaining about it since most people here at least understand the basics of the basics of the kittening basics. You have to remember the average skill level of the forums is about Gold II, while the average skill level of the community as a whole ( Especially WvW ) is Silver II. This is an example of something silver players die to but gold players rarely do, and of course plat+ never does.

But having instagibbed a few very new players who really do make all five of those mistakes in a row, I am pretty sure they felt pretty demoralized to just instantly die. Anet has made it quite painfully clear with the last couple years of "balance" changes that the balance direction is centered around the average player, not the best player. So occasionally we are going to see these changes which make absolutely no sense to anyone who has been playing PvP or WvW for longer than a couple months.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

It's a casual-pandering change.

True strike is/was an extremely powerful skill, but with the caveat that it is only OP when used against EXTREMELY BAD players. 

It could oneshot people, but only if you built up 5 charges and they were dumb enough to stay in range of one of the slowest attacks in the game. So in order to actually get hit with a fully charged True strike, a player has to commit several noob mistakes in a row ( 1. Failure to notice to stupidly obvious block animation, 2. Failure to stow weapons against the block causing it to fully charge, 3. Facetanking the rev while he is blocking, 4. Failure to kite the true strike, 5. Failure to dodge/block if you failed to kite it ) Only by making all 5 mistakes in a row do you actually get hit with a full powered True strike, which is why almost no one on the forums can be seen complaining about it since most people here at least understand the basics of the basics of the kittening basics. You have to remember the average skill level of the forums is about Gold II, while the average skill level of the community as a whole ( Especially WvW ) is Silver II. This is an example of something silver players die to but gold players rarely do, and of course plat+ never does.

But having instagibbed a few very new players who really do make all five of those mistakes in a row, I am pretty sure they felt pretty demoralized to just instantly die. Anet has made it quite painfully clear with the last couple years of "balance" changes that the balance direction is centered around the average player, not the best player. So occasionally we are going to see these changes which make absolutely no sense to anyone who has been playing PvP or WvW for longer than a couple months.

 

 

 

 

 

It would have been a better weapon if the invuln ability applied an immob instead (forgot name), and damage across GS accordingly balanced to account for the more reliable application of 4-5. I like the animations of GS, but I can never play it because of the cumbersome low range and/or high broadcast, I never feel like 5 is going to land well (in 1v1's). Its why I much prefere mace/axe, they just flow better, the enemy is getting hit with a CC or weakness, almost garunteed. GS often has that RNG feel to it, high damage or no damage.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194