So what happened to Guild Wars 2? This SOTA seems very ominous...

[Cuks.8241]

5 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

I think the bigger problem is that it's not just art assets Anet is recycling, it's gameplay design, too. If you look at rifts, Skywatch meta, and Amnytas meta, the overall design is all too similar. All of them have the exact same "adds spawn randomly all over the place until the bar fills up" phase. Aside from Nourys, all of them share the same enemies. You also see the same "interact to close rifts" and "pick up essences" portions. By comparison, HoT and PoF metas were all uniquely designed (I don't have EoD).

It's like GW2 team is no longer given a good budget so they have to recycle, copy and paste, and try to drag things out as long as possible with as little effort as possible. If this is the future of GW2, I think SotO will be my last. I've been doing HoT metas for years and they're still fun. On the other hand, I'm already burned out on SotO because the SotO metas and rifts all feel the same. It's like DRM's all over again.

There is just something off with Soto metas. Maybe I'm just bored with meta events and events in general but I'm not really sure. Even though I agree with your repeatable phases assessment I don't think it's just that. All ow events can be grouped in a few categories so I don't think it's that. They just feel a bit uninspired, lacking the connection with the story and map and there is a lot of rushing. The first meta is so busy I don't even know what's going on there. I'm not one for the story but usually I at least know what's going on, here I have no clue what's the point of all those sub events. Yeah we unlock the tower at the end, that's about as far as I know. And while Amnytas has some great event chains, the meta is again just off. Rushing all over the place, doing the same events you did before and the boss doesn't do a thing. Like literary it's just a static model. Such a wasted potential, great big bad boss model (in an expansion full of rehashed models and bland monster textures) and it just stands there.

There's a lot of criticism for Eod but we got at least 2 great metas. Seitung is a good meta and however you feel about Dragon's End, it's a kitten epic meta. The other 2 are not my fav but I do get them. And yeah Hot and Pof, pinnacle, especially Hot. For example Verdant Brink. It's not even a classic meta, but the whole map and all the quest chains, map phases, it all just falls together into a living map with awesome atmosphere. The events themselves are nothing special (although a few night time bosses are great and unique) but the whole maps just feels alive.

[Funky.4861]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:09 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

When you forget that prior expansions have been recycling content as well with a good chunk of LWS3 being straight up recycling Prophecies and PoF recycling parts of Nightfall into GW2 just so you can hate on Soto for doing exactly that.

Gw1 is a different game mate. The idea behind a sequel is to continue what went before, so of course gw2 will use models which look like gw1. An expansion however is not a different game, and it's pure disingenuousness to reskin an old model and try to pass it off as new content.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Gw1 is a different game mate. The idea behind a sequel is to continue what went before, so of course gw2 will use models which look like gw1. An expansion however is not a different game, and it's pure disingenuousness to reskin an old model and try to pass it off as new content.

Different game, same devs. Recycling content they once made for 2 episode releases then throwing out then following it up with a Nightfall-esque "we must kill a big bad rogue god" expansion is fine, but heavily modifying already existing models for a new story arc is disingenuous. Got it.

[Funky.4861]

20 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Different game, same devs. Recycling content they once made for 2 episode releases then throwing out then following it up with a Nightfall-esque "we must kill a big bad rogue god" expansion is fine, but heavily modifying already existing models for a new story arc is disingenuous. Got it.

Reskinning an old model and calling it new IS disingenuous. Creating a map by copy-and-pasting parts of existing maps and calling it new IS disingenuous. The only new content we get is voice acting, story lines, a boss, some weapon and armour skins, and an ugly jotunn. Oh, we get a new griffon skin and a new skyscale skin. Even Peitha is a reskin and the rifts are reskins. This expansion should be called "Reskins of the Obscure".

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

15 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Reskinning an old model and calling it new IS disingenuous. Creating a map by copy-and-pasting parts of existing maps and calling it new IS disingenuous. The only new content we get is voice acting, story lines, a boss, some weapon and armour skins, and an ugly jotunn. Oh, we get a new griffon skin and a new skyscale skin. Even Peitha is a reskin and the rifts are reskins. This expansion should be called "Reskins of the Obscure".

I'm interested, which part of Amnytas or Skywatch was copy and pasted together? 

[Funky.4861]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I'm interested, which part of Amnytas or Skywatch was copy and pasted together? 

If you don't see it i doubt any evidence will open your eyes.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

If you don't see it i doubt any evidence will open your eyes.

Ah yes, "forget it" once being asked for examples.

[Zeivu.3615]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:29 AM, Einsof.1457 said:

Is calling it an expansion false advertising? Mmo expansions usually get reviews 

Well, considering that the ads don't even make it clear it that it isn't finished nor being released in chapters at certain times, there might be a case for it. Only way for you to know is to either finish the content and get a rude awakening or to click on the websites and dig for it.

[Poormany.4507]

7 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I'm interested, which part of Amnytas or Skywatch was copy and pasted together? 

All the Bastions in Amnytas felt like someone just took one, held shift down, and copy-pasted it four times. Skywatch was obvious copy-paste of old terrains/biomes we've already been to before. All of the NPCs/enemies felt like cheap reskins of old NPCs/enemies. I'm 3/4 of the way through the story and so far none of the enemies feel "new" to me. It's just like "Hey, that demon's a quickly reskinned Eye of Zhaitan, woohoo..." for each enemy I've met. None of the previous expacs felt like this to me on this large a scale (except EoD void enemies).

Edited October 26, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

All the Bastions in Amnytas felt like someone just took one, held shift down, and copy-pasted it four times. Skywatch was obvious copy-paste of old terrains/biomes we've already been to before. All of the NPCs/enemies felt like cheap reskins of old NPCs/enemies. I'm 3/4 of the way through the story and so far none of the enemies feel "new" to me. It's just like "Hey, that demon's a quickly reskinned Eye of Zhaitan, woohoo..." for each enemy I've met. None of the previous expacs felt like this to me on this large a scale (except EoD void enemies).

Let me get this straight.. A map made of 4 BASTIONS is bad, because the Bastions look similiar to eachother and reusing biomes where we've already been before is bad.. hmm, were you guys hating on Jahai for reusing Orr and HoT areas, Dragonfall for reusing HoT for ~1/3rd for its map or hating on Drizzlewood for being mostly a copy-paste map of "forest/icy waste with a camp"?
If reusing biomes is such a big issue where was the complaining about Bjora Marches and northern DF being yet another Shiverpeaks map or Siren's Landing being another Orr?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

53 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Let me get this straight.. A map made of 4 BASTIONS is bad, because the Bastions look similiar to eachother and reusing biomes where we've already been before is bad.. hmm, were you guys hating on Jahai for reusing Orr and HoT areas, Dragonfall for reusing HoT for ~1/3rd for its map or hating on Drizzlewood for being mostly a copy-paste map of "forest/icy waste with a camp"?
If reusing biomes is such a big issue where was the complaining about Bjora Marches and northern DF being yet another Shiverpeaks map or Siren's Landing being another Orr?

Don't forget the reused halloween assets and necro minions in dragonfall. 

[Hsanrb.1570]

I think the biggest criticism of SotO isn't with SotO itself, but people aren't happy with the systematic changes (like Wizards Vault, Relics) that touch every part of the game and not the expansion areas themselves. Wizards Vault encourages people to play the game more, and not just "login and get my bonuses hehe" 5m inconvenience, and Relics are still TBD because new ones will probably keep releasing but haven't really changed anything IMO. HOWEVER my biggest criticism is the fact that flying kills worlds, because why spend the time to make an amazing world like End of Dragons or Heart of Thorns, when most of your community will have a Skyscale and fly over everything? So the little touches, that exist in Skywatch Archipelago or Amnytas are just not enough to carry the world, because flying creates empty space and empty space is negative space for a user to play around.

Lets be honest, a "flying expansion" sounds good on paper, but now ANYTHING released after SotO will be ruined because flying went from a luxury you didn't need to get... to something that will become mandatory (from the community) to get to places in future expansions. No one is going to wait while you climb a mountain because "SotO exists, so you can fly up the mountain." The only way to fix it is to put ceilings on zones so flying isn't broken or creating worlds underground or in the ocean. Other mounts still allow a world to exist because you are still engaged with the ground. So the world can exist in a grounded state. How do you keep people grounded when everyone is on a skyscale? Arenanet opened pandora's box with this expansion, now they have to find a way to create meaningful worlds with this shifted reality of flying being expected instead of accepted.

Also I don't find any of the music in SotO to be memorable like the rest of the game. So my willingness to do content in SotO is less than Core/HoT/PoF/EoD. Music is actually a "non-gameplay" factor in a review because it creates atmosphere, and moments that get you excited for things that might be similar to other things in the game.

TLDR: Wizards Vault and Relics. PoF mounts still kept you grounded, Skyscale and Griffon no longer keep you grounded... so the quality of the world has taken a hit... which means the expansion has taken a hit.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:07 AM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

SoTO is sold separately of the core game and adds extra content, which.. is what expansions are.. so, no false advertising.

Also people seem to think because when they said smaller expansions it meant only 6 epsiodes like a living world, those people were wrong and still haven't apologized.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, vrauns.3215 said:

Also people seem to think because when they said smaller expansions it meant only 6 epsiodes like a living world, those people were wrong and still haven't apologized.

Yea true we only get 4 episodes since its a 4 quarter release cadence, still dont see why they must apologize for expecting to much.

[BlueJin.4127]

9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Let me get this straight.. A map made of 4 BASTIONS is bad, because the Bastions look similiar to eachother and reusing biomes where we've already been before is bad.. hmm, were you guys hating on Jahai for reusing Orr and HoT areas, Dragonfall for reusing HoT for ~1/3rd for its map or hating on Drizzlewood for being mostly a copy-paste map of "forest/icy waste with a camp"?
If reusing biomes is such a big issue where was the complaining about Bjora Marches and northern DF being yet another Shiverpeaks map or Siren's Landing being another Orr?

Jahai Bluffs, Dragonfall, Drizzlewood, Bjora Marches, and Siren’s Landing are not expansions…

Players are worried that we're no longer getting proper expansions like HoT/PoF, but instead, getting LWS/sagas disguised as expansions. The comparisons you posted yourself where you compare SotO to LWS/sagas instead of expansions like HoT/PoF are the very reasons some players are concerned; because SotO feels more like LWS/sagas.

And as somebody who used to work in the game industry, I can tell you that SotO recycling so many assets (art assets from previous contents and gameplay loops I mentioned in previous post) is not a good sign. This generally means that the higher-ups decided that GW2 is no longer a priority, and the company is reducing resources for GW2 in favor of other projects. You don't need to be an industry veteran to know what this means, but to spell it out... It means that quality of the game is going to drop even further. It also means that we're on the first step to GW2 going into maintenance mode.

Since I don't work at Anet, or have any connections who work at Anet, I could be wrong about this, but as somebody who worked in the game industry, this is just too easy to see. It's textbook pattern. The next expansion (or even SotO) could very well be GW2's last until Anet pulls the plug completely and puts GW2 into maintenance mode like GW1. And the odds of GW2 doing so well that higher-ups backtrack is pretty slim for a 10+ years old game.

Edited October 27, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

18 minutes ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Jahai Bluffs, Dragonfall, Drizzlewood, Bjora Marches, and Siren’s Landing are not expansions…

Players are worried that we're no longer getting proper expansions like HoT/PoF, but instead, getting LWS/sagas disguised as expansions. The comparisons you posted yourself where you compare SotO to LWS/sagas instead of expansions like HoT/PoF are the very reasons some players are concerned; because SotO feels more like LWS/sagas.

Except Anet themselves said that SoTO is not a HoT/PoF level of expansion, and they are replacing LW with mini-expansions but, alright I guess.  

20 minutes ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

And as somebody who used to work in the game industry, I can tell you that SotO recycling so many assets (art assets from previous contents and gameplay loops I mentioned in previous post) is not a good sign. This generally means that the higher-ups decided that GW2 is no longer a priority, and the company is reducing resources for GW2 in favor of other projects. You don't need to be an industry veteran to know what this means, but to spell it out... It means that quality of the game is going to drop even further. It also means that we're on the first step to GW2 going into maintenance mode.

Was missing the maintenance mode comments in this thread.

[Obtena.7952]

Absurd thread is absurd. LAWL @ Game is doomed because some content didn't get a review. Doomposting. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Funky.4861]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:19 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Let me get this straight.. A map made of 4 BASTIONS is bad, because the Bastions look similiar to eachother and reusing biomes where we've already been before is bad.. hmm, were you guys hating on Jahai for reusing Orr and HoT areas, Dragonfall for reusing HoT for ~1/3rd for its map or hating on Drizzlewood for being mostly a copy-paste map of "forest/icy waste with a camp"?
If reusing biomes is such a big issue where was the complaining about Bjora Marches and northern DF being yet another Shiverpeaks map or Siren's Landing being another Orr?

They don't look similar- they are the same. I'd be surprised if you can find 3 new mobs; even the ranger pet is a reskinned sandshark. Surely they could've done better and added to the wyvern family in keeping with the skyscale theme? HoT, PoF and EoD gave us huge, engaging maps- Soto gives us huge maps with a few islands and mostly air. We're even told in Skywatch Archipelago that the islands present are the same areas of Tyria/Cantha with a twist of fate. As far as i'm concerned, the only new things in the expansion are the relic system, masteries and wizards' vault, and i'm not convinced that's enough considering we got similar with previous LW episodes. Also, you don't need Soto to access the vault or relics, so i'm being generous to include them.

[Dante.1508]

I assume Soto never really made the gaming scene as its very small and obscure so the large gaming outlets never even bothered, coupled with the fact its going to be a year or so to actually finish it..

[Einsof.1457]

10 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

I assume Soto never really made the gaming scene as its very small and obscure so the large gaming outlets never even bothered, coupled with the fact its going to be a year or so to actually finish it..

Every mmo xpac has additional content patches. 

[Vayne.8563]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:29 AM, Einsof.1457 said:

Is calling it an expansion false advertising? Mmo expansions usually get reviews 

But this expansion has gotten reviews. Sorry if you're having trouble finding them.

Secrets of the Obscure: Guild Wars 2 Secrets of the Obscure review: A short, but sweet expansion to the popular MMO (sportskeeda.com)

Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure Review - Roundtable Co-Op (roundtablecoop.com)

Secrets of the Obscure Breathes New Life Into Guild Wars 2 — GeekTyrant

Guild Wars 2's new expansion is built around the game's best mount | PC Gamer (an article in PC Gamer aBout the expansion, not a review, but you know, it calls it an expansion).

Worthplaying | 'Guild Wars 2: Secrets Of The Obscure' To Get Through the Veil Content Update In November - Screens & Trailer

Guild Wars 2 : Secrets of the Obscure Review for PC: - GameFAQs (gamespot.com)

Took me a few minutes with google and the words Secrets of the Obscure reviews to find them. The truth is, you may not like it, but some people do. I'm playing more Guild Wars 2 now than I was before the expansion but a hot mile. Shrugs.

[Randulf.7614]

I’m playing it more too. It’s not just because of SoTo, but SoTo was good enough to rekindle enjoyment and motivation after feeling deflated by Champions and EoD (although I’ve thawed towards EoD more recently) and now I’m playing content all over the game again

[Vayne.8563]

9 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I’m playing it more too. It’s not just because of SoTo, but SoTo was good enough to rekindle enjoyment and motivation after feeling deflated by Champions and EoD (although I’ve thawed towards EoD more recently) and now I’m playing content all over the game again

I really liked EOD, so I didn't have the same issues. Mostly it was the Wizard's Vault that got me playing more.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:08 AM, Zeivu.3615 said:

Well, considering that the ads don't even make it clear it that it isn't finished nor being released in chapters at certain times, there might be a case for it. Only way for you to know is to either finish the content and get a rude awakening or to click on the websites and dig for it.

Not that I disagree…… but……

WOW has been doing that for a long time. Dungeons and raids are closed for at least 3 weeks after the xpac drops.  And raids are the content at this point. 

[Tiviana.2650]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:53 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

6. Wizard Vault. At launch and still to this day a huge talking point. Lots of people dislike it for one reason or another. 

Naw im going to have to take back everything i had said before the WV release. Its an amazing system i love it. It has allowed people to get leg weapons where before they couldnt. It has a really good amount of diverse activities to do. I love the wizards vault