Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Necromancer

[Jin.8501]

Unimpressed. Another ranged set to the pile. Lacking in animations. Looks like most of the work went to the revenant sword 

[Siggi.3201]

some small feedback, the most crucial stuff already had been mentioned many times.

Idea of dual swords and life steal/gain playstyle? I love it! I really do miss my old school necro builds with vampiric wells. I remember them doing 300dmg per tick aoe, in an environment there a couple thousand dmg was a lot, unlike today. the scaling feels aweful, I acutally dont really know how to fix it, maybe lifes steal healing based on percentage?!. there is a lot of issues to make it feel strong vs one foe while not being op vs to many foes. but in general I would really like to see more changes for necromancer to play a life steal assasin, also could include a relic so you put your resources in this playstyle but it actually would also pay off. And a general issue to me with necro is to many dead weapons and to many dead skills.

Actual skills: What to say... I really would have appriciated a different approach in general. the leap feels great! eventho it seems bit misplaced for the current skill set of the sword. I somehow still like the idea of mainhand sword 900 range while the offhand sword is actual meele and has some evade frame, shadow spin attack, which hit small but often and therefore generate life.

The current skill2 is REAAAAALLLLY buggy sometimes then I tried to hit a moving target it actually just went in a 90 degree angle to the right or left instead of getting anywhere close to the target. 

No real use for condi builds at all, whcih is a problem for competetive since necro really lacks utility(blocks,leaps,evades) and now we have at least something on sword but you would never bring that weapon to a condi build. maybe the first version of the skills are condi based and the reactivation brings heavy duty power dmg or vice versa?

[SummonMinion.7306]

WVW/ PVP review

Overall review is that the great theme/mechanics of these weapons are overshadowed by poor execution. Currently feels like the dev team balanced the numbers (damage, healing, cd, etc.) on these weapons around requiring the player to use the flip skills every single time. Not using the flip skills feels like you get only half the impact of other currently available weapons. Using both skills (including the flip skills) every single time feels equally as bad since using both skills has the same impact in a fight as singular skills on other weapons but you also get penalized by sacrificing health (Where's the reward for the trade off?). I'm fine if using the non-flip skills alone is slightly less impactful than singular skills on other weapons so there's a trade-off for having access to additional skills but doubling up and using the flip skills should have a greater impact on a fight so I feel rewarded for taking these over other options and for choosing to sacrifice health. 

For specifics:

Auto's hit like a wet noodle which is fine since it's as easy way to sustain while dealing damage. Main issues with the skill are it's unnecessarily slow chain (main culprit is probably the after-cast) and it's janky interaction with the terrain due to being a ground hovering wave. This skill is mainly impacted by mechanical issues rather than numerical issues.

I have no issue with ravenous wave but satiate's damage numbers are so low that it's never worth it to use the flip skill even when the target is below 50%. Cool idea to have an execute skill but currently doesn't function as intended due to numerical issues (damage).

I have little to no issue with path of gluttony or gorge besides it's weird after-cast which makes it difficult to consistently insta-chain both jumps together. Additionally, I don't see why this skill isn't ground targeted like jump shot on engi rifle so that players have the choice to either use the skill offensively or defensively on a ranged weapon.    

My main issue with hungering maelstrom is the unnecessarily long cast time. Either keep it's current cast time and boost the damage and/or healing numbers or keep it's current numerical values but bring the cast time down (either 1/2 sec or 3/4 sec). Gormandize is such a cool name for such an un-impactful skill. The damage on the flip skill is way too low for it to ever be worth it to cast. Either increase the strike damage or attach additional conditions so the skill feels impactful and worth the health trade off. 

Devouring visage is an overall decent skill and my only issue with it is the low life force gain from the skill. Either boost the LF gain from hitting devouring visage or attach additional lf gain on consume so we're rewarded for hitting the skill on it's return path. Consume is the only flip skill that felt impactful due to being a hard cc. My main issue is the difficulty behind being able to consistently use the flip skill when you want to use it. The window to cast the flip skill definitely needs to be longer. My suggestion is to have devouring visage linger a bit at the end of it's path like thief axes to give players more of a window to use consume if they choose to do so. Just look at how tides of time functions on mesmer shield 5 and copy that small window where the wave spins before returning to the player and attach a similar mechanic/window to devouring visage.

[Squigglez.1236]

Not adding anything that hasn't been said, and would preface by saying I only really tested against the golem. The flip skills suck, the damage for the weapon feels low, and the attacks feel slow. Damage for skill 2 flip is almost the same as the auto attack. Flip skill for 3 feels like sacrificing health to get a slightly altered axe 3. Flip for 5 is a short range fear. The auto chain feels slow but so does skill 4 with its 1s cast.

[Nimon.7840]

Nice animations, poor/mediocre execution.

There's so many bugs regarding the autoattack, and I think they have all been listed already, so I won't do it again.

Skill 4 Flip skill sometimes has a weird Aftercast that won't let you reactivate the flip Skill.

Skill 2 Flip Skill has no impact at all.

 

While the life cost is a nice idea, the rewards for actually paying those costs are non existent. 

PvE: the weapons just don't deal any dmg in relation to their Casttimes/aftercasts.

Pvp/wvw: 

Autoattacks are bugged as hell so it's a bit hard to judge.

Skill 4 casttime is way too long. 

Skill 5, could use a slight speed up in projectile speed.

Overall the weapons feel as slow as great sword, and that's not good for competitive modes.

Also the Casttimes of all skills and range on skill 3 are a big issue. I watched naru playing pvp and he had the same problem as me: sword skills barely connect. Guildwars 2's Combat is pretty fast paced, and that's great. But having a slow weapon just doesn't fit that combat Style.

Also I don't quite understand the devs saying, to use them in group content in Wvw. Any weapon doing a lot of projectiles is bad there, due to the amount of refelcts available.

PvE:

The dmg of swords is way too low.

General:

While the swords don't have to be good PvE weapons, they are pretty mediocre at best for competitive modes.

So in their current state, they have no real purpose.

Overall the flip skills aren't rewarding at all. They all cost health for only little of benefit.

Flip skills:

Skill 2 needs a heavy increase in dmg scaling. Skill 3 could be changed to a 900 Leap, or at least 600.

Skill 4 could be good if Skill 4 would be easier to hit. 

Skill 5 costs way too much health in PvE. That health cost would only be justified, if it repeated the first skills dmg imo.

Combo finishers: I totally agree with the people. Skills 1 are missing the 20% projectile finisher, and skill 3 the Leap finisher. Maybe even add a blast finisher to 4.

I really hope that those swords get really closely looked at before they get shipped, else they are dead on arrival.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nimon.7840

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

It feels like these were made with PVP in mind.  I don't know why I'd want a range weapon with a leap in PVE, it's like a sniper running up to you and sticking the barrel in your chest before firing.  The damage and utility wasn't very good for all the extra button presses you have to do and the flux your health is at.

Healing yourself before you harm yourself feels like putting the cart before the horse

Better to waste a heal because you're already at full health, then sacrifice, and then be able to use a different skill to heal back a sacrifice, then to be unable to access the heal at all because it's locked behind a sacrifice you can't afford to make.

[Shaman.2034]

I think the theming and animations are really good, but it could use some usability improvements, animation length cleanups, and a lot of damage increases. It's so weak...

• The last attack of the autoattack chain immediately launches into the first attack. I think there should be some more space in between to clearly delineate when an autoattack chain is complete, so you can use another skill without interrupting a new auto chain.
• It's difficult to use the flip on skill 5 to proc Fear when an enemy is close to 900 range, because that's where the sphere expires. This needs a much longer window after the sphere reaches its maximum range where you can call it back. Maybe let the sphere remain at its max range for 5 seconds, so you can reposition and then pull it back toward you to Fear in a new line. Right now, it's not really usable except in very close ranges.
• Every skill needs more damage. The swords do really poor DPS, the coefficients could all be doubled and it would still be just okay.

Two things I would like to see added are Life Force generation on the autoattack, and a good source of self Fury. The Fury in particular would help the weapon stand out a lot from the rest of necromancer's kit.

[Esufer.8762]

in full zerk why do the swords hit me harder than they hit my opponent 🤔

[Caid.4932]

Its hard to see how the self healing wont be severely overpowered in pvp. I mean it makes sense when my own attacks are hitting me for 4k damage but i could just not use them and be immortal. Most just aren't worth the health cost for pretty unremarkable effects.

I think they should be a proportion of your health because the cost to reaper vs harbinger is pretty wide but really both the healing and health costs should be much lower. Or else the flip skills need to be absolutely crazy strong

[mazut.4296]

I won't complaint about the overall very low damage. I'ts beta test and I'm sure its low on purpose. When they lift it a little bit, everybody will be happy 😉

My thoughts from open world pve perspective.

- Auto attacks: The 3rd skill in the chain doesn't need a delay. It's disrupting the flow and make it feel clunky and slow. Also, the 1st and 2nd attacks are no wide enough for an aoe weapon! I tested it multiple times and unless enemies are standing very close together or in line, only the main target get hit.
- Ravenous Wave: Sometimes it shoots in a weird angle. 2nd skill Satiate also should gain some % life force per target hit.
- Path of Gluttony and Gorge: Those should be leap finishers! Or leap + blast finisher.
When used in close range then 450 the animation actually slows combat. in close range the animation should be faster and the skill should execute faster.
- Hungering maelstrom: The animation is way to big. Its cool, but doesn't need to be that huge. Lower the cast time to 3/4!
- Devouring visage and Consume. This skill is flawed! When used at maximum range you can recall the orb even before it hits any target, wasting the whole skill... :(. Consume should become active Only after it hits an enemy! Another problem is when the orb reaches 900 range it disappears and with it the 2nd skill Consume also vanishes. My suggestion is to slow or stop the orb at 900 range or turn it into some sort of visible mist cloud for 2 sec.(giving the player time to react and recall the orb back from the mist). As of right now, you have to time Consume perfectly or either you will recall it to early or it will reach max range and the orb will disappear!

All the life sacrificing skills (2 to 5) should have longer availability. As of now they are active for no longer then 2 sec. This must be doubled!
I also think some of the skills need additional effects. For instance Hungering maelstrom can also inflict few sec of aoe weakness. Path of Gluttony might give small aoe Fury and Gorge Vigor or another defensive boon to help you escape the close combat you just leaped into. Recalling the orb with Consume could give stability to allies it passes through.
 

[Anarchynow.2514]

On 11/29/2023 at 1:47 PM, Anarchynow.2514 said:

Really like the heal and sacrifice interaction. Especially powerfull when paired with Blood Magic traits and Blood bank.

A bit dangerous to use at the moment with Harbinger though due to the fixed hp cost inc ombination with low hp due to blight.

An update here is that today I realize thta the barrier from Bloodbank will be used for the sacrifice damage. Not sure if I like this or not. The skills provide enough healing to regain the lost health and the barrier could keep you protected in the meantime. So it would probably be better if the sacrifice only targets hp and not barrier.

[Iustitian.9176]

- Skill 3: Second skill can't be activated instantly after using first weapon slot skill. There is a little cooldown that is not in the description.
- Skills 2 - 5: No information, how long the second skills will be aviable after using the first weapon slot skill
- Will make axe as range power weapon obsolete. Mainhand sword can nearly everthing axe can (900 range, high power damage, boon removal) and with multi target.

[Tilastik.8193]

Some ideas/thoughts about the swords' skills:

Sword 5: Devouring Visage - the orb return after it reach the maximum range. Consume - the orb explode inflicting fear around it.

Sword 4: Hungering Maelstrom - slowly pull enemies toward the center of the targeted area. Gormandize - bite enemies inside the maelstrom (bite animation from hungering maelstrom)

Sword 3:  differentiate the 2 gap closer. Path of Gluttony - dash in the targeted direction (use a dash animation instead of a leap). Gorge - add a leap finisher to the dash/leap

[Zom.2476]

This is coming from a primarily open world PvE perspective.

Overall, I like the Necromancer's swords. I really like the ranged playstyle and the heal/sacrifice theme. As pointed out by others, the pace of the autoattacks is slower than you'd expect and the damage of the sacrificial abilities seems too low compared to the cost, but if the autoattack chain speed were to be adjusted and the damage of the sacrifice abilities increased, this would alleviate those issues. The leaps on Path of Gluttony/Gorge feel contrary to the ranged playstyle, but I can see it being appreciated in WvW/PvP or as a gap closer before going into shroud, and it would make sense for either of them to be a leap finisher (or leap + blast) . Another issue I've noticed is the low life force generation, but hopefully that can also be fixed by tweaking the numbers or maybe adding some elsewhere.

What I would like to see is might and/or fury added to the mainhand abilities. This would lessen the reliance on having both the Spite and Soul Reaping traitlines and allow for more build diversity in PvE. Being able to take Blood Magic, for instance, would pair well with the sacrificial mechanic of the swords, however, doing so at the moment would mean losing both the might generation and damage modifiers from Spite or the critical hit chance and life force generation of Soul Reaping. If, for example, you gained might from Satiate and fury from Gorge, this would make the health sacrifice more worthwhile and taking alternative traitlines would be less punishing. Seeing either of these buffs added, or both, in some capacity would be a welcome addition. But overall, I like the concept and look forward to being able to wield The Shining Blade and The Binding of Ipos together on a Necromancer.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Zom.2476
Wrong traitline

[Riot Inducer.8964]

I like a lot of the overall ideas with the swords but it has some serious issues atm.

The overall damage is quite lackluster, numbers are easy to change so I won't linger on this but to say that the sacrifice skills should be doing the lion's share of the big numbers here. Currently they don't really feel worth the cost in most cases.

All the projectiles are locked to the ground and are thus subject to tons of inconsistency and incorrectly being obstructed by the environment. This needs to be changed or the weapon will be dead on arrival.

I like the idea of the sacrifice skills but the fact that every skill other than the auto has a flip over sac skill is detrimental to the overall weapon imo. It's a bit like the issue of Harbinger elixirs where the boons provided is the only real differentiation and the impact effects and blight threshold effects are all samey and lackluster. Exempting some skills from the flip over sacrifice skill mechanic will let the remaining sacrifice mechanic skills shine more.

I'll do a quick rundown of thoughts on each skill.

1. Auto chain. I think the autos should have a damage modifier for targets at close range. The sword has a rather solid gap closer leap but everything else about it is 900 range. Give the autos a boost for sticking close to enemies so there's a reason to keep leaping into melee with your ranged weapons. (other than stacking in instanced fights)
2. Ravenous Wave/Satiate.  I think this is a very solid skill it just needs way more damage, preferably weighted more towards the sacrifice part of the skill. 
3. Path of Glutton/Gorge. I like the leap and impact of the skill but I don't think this needs to be a flip over. Remove this one from the sacrifice mechanic and just make it a leap with 2 ammo charges that corrupts some boons and it's golden.
4. Hungering Maelstrom/Gormandize. In the interest of functionally using Off-hand sword without Main-hand sword I would move the healing factor to skill 5 and the life force generation to this skill. That way you can sacrifice and heal without it being mutually exclusive or relying on MH sword.
5. Devouring Visage/Consume. This one is suffering from poor usability to satisfy every skill having a flip over sacrifice skill. Just remove the flip over sac and have it be a launch and return skill. Removing the sacrifice and giving this skill a healing effect instead of skill 4 makes off-hand sword a neat package that can pair with non MH sword weapons well.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

Why does OH Sword have Fear (that have a very short range)? The main attack from MH #1 have 900 range, but you can only jump 450 units and with chill as the third sequence of attack meaning you won't have much control of target until then (when chill have procs).

There is no defensive skills on dual sword set up as far as I can tell, only offence in form of  damage and Vulnerability stacking. Only way to get Torment on this weapon is to use trait that will add Torment when target are getting hit with Chill.

Add into this mix that there is no field from this weapon set or finisher and this new weapon set up seem to be lacking anything to interact with utility skills that can create Dark fields. We also lack source for stability outside of trait for Harbinger when we enter Shroud and utility skill that can provide stability seem to be very weak with a pulsing stability (have only seen it work once while standing it that AoE and it was just too short to be if any use to prevent getting CC:d).

The attack speed on #1 seem fast, but wont help much if everything else is on secondary skills (flip) and have not much in the way to negate incoming damage (no block, no stab, no invulnerability or stealth, not even a short time shielding effect).

As someone that have played Harbinger with Staff and Pistol+Warhorn for some time where Warhorn and Staff provide Fear I don't see how dual wielding Sword would be that much better. Yes you get a short range teleport, but it does also lack any interaction with anything else like placing a field or having a finisher for blasting (only Staff have this).

The range of Sword would be great if there where torment or confusion to add on damage toward moving targets before making a final jump into Melee range, but this doesn't seem to be the purpose of this weapon set. Only to add Vulnerability and some control from Chill with strike damage. Fear is more for interrupting and force hostile (out of range if the get too close before jumping?). 

My suggestion would be to add a projectile finisher like most other weapon with  skill #1 projectiles have to at least be able to make use of our combo fields or add a blast finisher on #3 to make an impact when we finally make a jump (also add stability that give a short protection against interrupts or when several CC is fired at once - this is important in PvE as well in WvW, in PvE we have some boss fight very there a chains of CC that become really annoying if you lack any stability at all or have any other means to negate CC outside of stunbreaks which only work after you have been knockdown or pulled into an longer animation).

Life Force generating skills also need to be looked into to avoid getting the heal based Scrouge/Reaper Shroud vs Harbinger Shroud that is more a timer for how long time you can keep being in Shroud until you get forced out of it. Staff have traits that helps a lot of getting heals (even though those are small) while in combat without using Healing skill and in Shroud you also get some effect of going into Shroud from Staff and not from Pistol+Warhorn. Dual wielding on the other hand doesn't have that effect on Shroud and your only source from this set up heals from use of skills.

DW in most other MMOs and Single player games usually also have some special effect from combing two of the same weapon (DW axe, DW Sword or GS, DW any single handed weapon that can be used in MH and OH). Why haven't we got any special DW trait for Necromancer and of its elite specialisation?

EDIT: Another issue here is that we don't know anything about plan for future Relics that might transform how strike damage, conditions, heals or special effects like making a Leap can be transformed which also might change how DW Sword on Harbinger (and Necromancers including its elites) will work.

A lot of NPCs have Defiance bars and DW Sword have only Chill + Fear to reduce its bar. Blind need to come from combo fields that getting finished and there is not much else to this kit that act as good as Staff or Pistol+Warhorn can do in combo with Harbinger Shroud.

Edited December 1, 2023 by ShadowCatz.8437

[Boh.4568]

Apart from everything that has been already said, I agree with the fact that life sacrifice and life steal should we swapped (the first heal is wasted unless you have blood bank), and in general I feel that they added the weapons without thinking about the traits at all. There are traits that synergizes with axe/focus, with dagger, with scepter, with staff marks, in a homogeneous way. The swords are just there, they feel unrelated to the class. You will choose your power/condi traits regardless of the sword skills.

From a WvW perspective the overall damage is very low, the condis you apply are very few and underwhelming (if it's a power weapon I can understand, but the power damage is so low that it feels as generic as the staff), there's only 1 boon corrupt in 5 skills iirc, and there's absolutely zero (0, nada) good boons. Maybe stab is too much, but some fury and more might?

Plus there's the wonkiness of certain skills with terrain, especially Sw5 where your green ball disappears almost immediately and can be reflected anyway. Why should I constantly calculate the distance, terrain and timing of my attack on order to (maybe) land a single fear that could be blocked and reflected, when I can just use staff5 or warhorn4, one click one fear, easy, unblockable?

Loving the leaps though, if your objective is to build a core celestial blood magic+death magic+speed of shadows absolute kitten necro, then swords are a great choice.

[Maultrace.5761]

When they said it represented gluttony, i thought we would have a skill like the kryptis... the one where it creates a circle and pulls you in, steals your boons and stuff, that would be sick... oh well.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Feedback for Necromancer swords
 

I'm okay with the idea in principle, I take anything over Staff (if only so we can free Staff for an entirely new role for necro).
But this weaponset really needs a lot of work.
The damage is simply not there. It is low. very low. That needs to be brought up if the intention is for this to be a DPS weapon.
Projectile attacks are wonky, have weird hitboxes and strange interactions with the terrain and have different attack speeds depending on if you hit something in melee or at range.
Now that I mention it...why the projectiles?
We drown in ranged weapons.

The flipovers are another issue:
Buff the hell out of these, because they are pretty much never worth using. Not for DPS not for any additional effects (I am not gonna lose close to 5k of my health to throw out a 2s fear).
And, issue of the entire set, aside from the heals on the non flip-overs it has no defensive utility whatsoever (and necro lacks that...A LOT) and everything is slow as hell (you see the sword attacks coming from miles away, they take years to land, and many projectiles can simply be sidestepped).

Fun idea Anet, but needs a LOT of refining in damage, flip-overs, attack speed and purity of purpose.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Maultrace.5761 said:

When they said it represented gluttony, i thought we would have a skill like the kryptis...

Well... When they said it was about punishment I thought it was punishing my foes, not me.

 

All in all, the game isn't designed to handle health sacrifices. The necromancer isn't designed to support health sacrifices.

The weaponset design is a balance hazard in a poor attempt to offset the fact that nothing support health sacrifices in this game. It potentially offer way to much sustain which can only lead to sustain nerfs after abuses.

Necromancer is a profession designed to handle a ressource named life force. If the developpers want to introduce a ressource cost on a weaponset, life force is what they should use as a ressource. If the developper wanted to make the ressource cost worthwhile they didn't need to create flip over skills, they just needed to allow the player to use the main skills at half the CD at the cost of the ressource. And this resource cost need to be in percentage not some kind of arbitrary value that push the player to somehow stack vitality and give a hard time to a specialization that can only work optimaly when it's max health pool have been reduce by more than 30%.

When designing something the designer need to ask himself: "Why would the player want to use what I'm designing?" . To me it's obvious that the developper didn't asked themself this question when designing the health sacrifice. They probably just thought: "The thematic is cool!"

[alex.8417]

For my part, I'm not going to dwell on subjects that have already been mentioned by players, and I'd rather talk about the changes to be adopted in the FX and animation section, which I find shocking or cause an identity problem.

We got 2 swords with a more vampiric blood magic theme that uses cunning, which was lacking on the necromancer.

• However

Sword 1 "Deathly Enervation"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Its animation may cause some problems if the speed of execution needs to be reworked, and its FX is far too imposing.

Sword 2 "Ravenous wave"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Here we're on Reaper, it's out of theme, and has nothing to do here, other FX like "Vapor blade" with "Coalescence of Ruin" in green color, would be more suitable.

Sword 3 "Path of Gluttony"
The best skill of the lot, the only modification to be made would be to make the animation faster in its execution, and a "Life Siphon" Dagger FX for all targets that are hit.

Sword 4 "Hungering Maelstrom"
This skill is very good overall, the only thing missing would be a "Life Siphon" Dagger FX for all targets that are hit.

Sword 5 "Devouring Visage"
This Harbinger skill has no place here, it's too flashy and, given the size of the orb, it's DBZ.
For the time being, I'd like to propose an Animation where the orb is replaced by an "unblockable" Swarm of bats that scares enemies it touches, and acts like the FX of "Night Fury" on enemies it touches, as with "Hunter's call" on people who are inked.

• (Reminder) What I've quoted are proposals for "Taylor Brooks" to improve its FX and animation, and rectify inconsistencies, "I leave it up to you"

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

When designing something the designer need to ask himself: "Why would the player want to use what I'm designing?" . To me it's obvious that the developper didn't asked themself this question when designing the health sacrifice. They probably just thought: "The thematic is cool!"

This has been the fundamental problem with Necromancer design for almost a decade now, imo (and it's not even unique to GW2 unfortunately). 

And it's not just that "this is thematic" has priority over "why would anyone want to use this" - but more crucially that "this isn't thematic" comes over "what does this class need and what would be fun". 

There are so many crucial and maybe most importantly just simply fun and engaging mechanics Necromancer simply never can have, because it was largely arbitrarily decided that they all aren't thematic to the class. 

Ofc there are balance concerns with giving Necromancer for example active defenses out of Shroud, coupled with Shroud existing on some Specs to bounce between - but it is pretty frustrating that all those positive things like Blocks, Evades, Boons, Combos, Stealth, Clones, Shadowsteps, really what have you (all positives) apparently aren't part of the "Necromancer fantasy" (despite about all of them easily being able to be wrapped in a Necromancer-/adjacent thematic way) - and then all that's left for class theme is being slow, self inflicting conditions, health sacrifices, maximum health reduction, etc., which are all negative. 

Sword/Sword in many ways is a continuation of the (imo failure of) Harbinger design. You are asked to sacrifice something (HP Shielding Shroud, Max HP, Health, etc.), to open up some room to then give Necromancer some tools that they usually can't have otherwise.. but then they just don't. 

Why ask players to pay 5.000 HP for an AoE Fear on Consume (Sword 5), which can be countered by projectile hate (on top of being the Necro themed hard CC with the most counters ingame already, being cleansable on top of stunbreaks), when Reaper's Mark on Staff exists - doing more damage and the same effect, at a lower Cooldown, as a single skill use without dealing with flipovers, with less counters due not being a projectile, with far easier and faster targeting, optional alterations such as making it unblockable, etc. 

Making Necro (even-) more vulnerable out of Shroud with Health Sacrifices on Weapon skills, or by taking the Shroud away entirely as with Harbinger, are the opportunities and design spaces to give Necromancer new and fun tools to play with. Taking Sword 5 as example, just a higher Fear base duration, especially on a Power Kit, can't be the only gain here for that price. 

As is, it's mostly just "here, have more of what you already have, but kind of worse, and with a big thematic downside". The only good exception is the mobility on Sword 3, and that's ironically the one skill that feels like it doesn't belong on that weapon/skill kit (but rather on something like Dagger 3). 

Sacrifice health to do damage again to targets hit, but only on targets below 50% HP, or sacrifice health to do damage again to targets hit as well as a bit of Chill and Vuln, is so boring and uninspired as sacrificial flipovers - and that this "extra damage for health sacrifices" is far below what other kits like GS do just simply baseline, without sacrificial shenanigans, doesn't help ofc - although coefficients at least are most likely subject to change. It being more boring and uninspired "Necromancer thematic" design though likely isn't. 

 

E:

Now if Sword 5's Orb would instead travel from you to a ground targeted location where it would then linger for a few seconds, pulsing it's Damage, and then during, for a Health cost, could be flipped over into a Feedback/Sanctuary type of skill, creating a projectile reflecting Dome pulsing Fear within for a few seconds - that could be a skill worth paying a good chunk of health for. Some actual Utility Necromancer usually doesn't have, worth the risk of rendering yourself more vulnerable if used properly. 

If these flipovers aren't situationally powerful but risky choices, then why bother with the mechanic at all. Spam click skill for "extra damage" at health cost (aka, balanced around doing that damage, so just pay health to do the usual because you are Necro) isn't interesting.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Asum.4960

[ZTeamG.4603]

I came into this beta excited to be getting a little more mobility on necro with the sword leaps and liked the concept of a ranged sword, but, unfortunately, sword is a bit of a letdown in its current state. Some of my thoughts:

• Sword skills are too slow in general; between long cast times and annoying aftercasts, the weapon just feels clunky.
• Auto chain: I love the idea of a ranged wave, but
  • It feels off to have just a projectile instead of slash+projectile, like Holo has when using the ranged trait. 
  • The ground-hover projectile doesn't work well with non-flat terrain, and what's the point of having a projectile that can't be fired upwards?
  • It would be nice to have a little more opportunity for condi builds to use the swords instead of just power.
• Sword 3 (the leap): I was disappointed with the range being shorter than most leaps. When I look at something like Guardian GS3 or Warrior Sword2, as well as most other leaps, the range is 600+ instead of 450. In its current state, the leap distance just feels too low to be worth taking for mobility when sword as a whole is slow, clunky, and weak.

[Rvoltpt.8453]

I think the skills look ok, but just feels so slow for a 1 handed weapon... go compare it to how fast a engi handles a 2handed bow... looks like a machine gun...  Not to mention most of the skills are  projectile crap that is kinda useless in wvw squad fights due to reflects.. and on top of that they also have loose hp for "benefit!?"/risk- I hated this mechanic on harbinger and I surely will hate it on the sword.. but thats just my opinion anyways..

After 11k hours on my necro using all other builds/weapons I can say im not that impressed, and somewhat dissapointed.. i was hoping necro finaly get a decent fast melee weapon... but noo it had to b a slow poke weapon again... im ok with it being ranged, but plz make the skill cast / animations tidy faster so i dont fall asleep in combat...ty

Edited December 6, 2023 by Rvoltpt.8453

[Eddy.7051]

Mechanical Feedback on Necromancer Dual Swords:

• Skill 2 Satiate and Skill 4 Gormandize: The flip over skills that sacrifice health do not feel impactful enough to justify sacrificing health. If I sacrifice health, the flip over skill should do more damage than the original skill.
• Skill 3 Gorge: Flip over skills that sacrifice my health should not simultaneously heal me. It's bloat and counterintuitive design. I should only self heal with separate abilities. Instead, could this flip over skill do bonus damage for each boon removed or bonus damage if no boons were removed?
• The flip over skills disappear too fast (especially skill 5). Rather than flipping back to the original skill after 3 seconds, I'd prefer if the flip over skills stayed available until the original skill is fully recharged (6-25 seconds), or Skills 2 and 4 could flip over sooner if all afflicted foes have died? We could also use the tech from ammo skills to show the recharge progress of the original skill behind the flip over skill. 3-second windows become a pain point when I'm waiting a few seconds for a mob's health to drop below 50% for the bonus effect on Skill 2.
• Skill 4 Hungering Maelstrom: I appreciate that sword skills 1 and 3 do not use the "Life Steal" mechanic because Life Steal cannot crit - which makes it much weaker on endgame power dps PvE builds. "Hit and Heal" is much better than Life Steal. But there is 1 Life Steal effect on skill 4. Can we replace this with the hit-and-heal effect?
  • While we're at it, can we replace Life Steal with Hit and Heal on Focus Skill 4 and Warhorn Skill 5?
• When skill 1 auto attack is enabled, there's clunkiness when I want to use the flip-over skills immediately after using the original skills. A longer aftercast should be added to the original skills. This is especially bad on Skills 3 and 4 (a skill 1 auto attack sneaks in between the time I can use their flip over skills), and this results in clunky/awkward feel and animations. Sometimes when the auto attack sneaks in before my immediate second press of the flip-over skill goes off, the auto attack completely overrides my second press, and the flip over skill never goes off until I press it again.
  • Using skills 2-5 do not seem to reset the auto attack chain on skill 1. Is this intended?
  • When I interrupt skill 1 auto attack to use skill 4, my character sometimes takes a 1 second pause before they begin casting skill 4.
  • Quickness amplifies this issue.

Visual Feedback on Necromancer Dual Swords:

• Skill 5 Consume: The visual interaction with the enemy for this flip-over skill is awkward/strange. The orb hits enemies from the back and then enemies run in the direction the orb hit them from. Realistically, wouldn't enemies run towards me, away from the orb? But I understand mechanically enemies always run away from the character who is the source of the fear. I think it would be better if instead of calling the orb back, we simply sent out a second orb. The second orb could have an amplified animation - like, the orb could have a skull face.
• Skill 2 Satiate and Skill 4 Gormandize: These flip-over skills have barely visible animations (if any). I'd appreciate the visual feedback to make sure I know when these abilities actually hit something.
• Can flip over skill animations look a bit bloodier/redder like the scepter auto attack (since I'm sacrificing health/blood)?