Feedback: I miss my team!

[Cameryn.5310]

I haven't felt as invested in SotO, and it's taken me some time to figure out why.  It's not just that the story is unengaging this time -- and I do agree with other people about the "filler" in story steps, i.e. fill-the-bar stuff -- or that the maps are a little too unspired.  I'm not really a fan of reused content, which is what Skywatch Archipelago feels like (just cut-and-pasted from other expansions), the Wizard's Tower is just a hub, and Amnytas and Inner Nayos aren't all that exciting.

No, it's that I miss my regulars.  I miss my team.  My pact.  Taimi, Rytlock, Rox, Braham, Aurene, Kas & Jory, and even Caithe and Canach.  Plus some of the other characters that joined me like Gorrik and Yao.  I was sad when Taimi's body started to shut down, and when we lost Aurene (we thought, for good).  I loved it when Braham came around again.  I loved Kas & Jory getting married.  I LOVE grumpy old Rytlock.  They're part of my overall GW2 game play and I miss them. 

I don't care about Peitha or any of the others.  I couldn't tell you who the others are in SotO, in fact.  I don't care about Zojja or the new folks... they just don't do it for me.

I spent YEARS becoming the Pact Commander and shaping my team.  So why have all of them been left behind?  It's really put a damper on my enjoyment of this expansion.

I don't know why ANet decided to leave all of those characters behind with this new expansion, and I really hope there's a course correction to bring them back this summer/fall.  I'm not saying it's BAD, I'm just saying I'm bored.

Edited March 9 by Cameryn.5310

[Teknomancer.4895]

Canach's dry snarking is always a welcome addition, and I'm always glad of Rox and/or Rytlock for company. The rest, meh.

[Omega.6801]

Same...I mean I know the in lore reason for the absence of our team and I can guess the RL reason why not even Zojja, a character the community has waited years for and was hyped up quite a lot, is joining us. But it all just feels very empty. Peitha and the formless monster bunch just can't compete, especially not if they're not well introduced one dimensional characters or, as in the case of the monster queen herself, shady at best. I do not want to relate to her as she will most likely stab me in the back in act 3. The wizards from act 1 are mostly absent, so there's not a lot left. Being the Wayfinder is very lonely.

[Maria Murtor.7253]

After over ten years of saving the world I would rather go back to the Black Citadel, hang out with my Warband and serve the Legions again. What happened with the peace treaty? And what's with the ghost problems? How is the human society dealing with the remaining White Mantle sympathizers and the Centaurs? How's the healing process of the Pale Tree? So many nice little or big stories untold.

 

[Cameryn.5310]

6 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

But it all just feels very empty.

I think that really sums up how I'm feeling... I was really invested in the characters I've played with the entire run of the game, especially since LW2, and they've become a big part of my enjoyment.  Kicking them all to the curb for this... empty is the right word.

I usually take most of my characters through each expansion... I've done SotO once, and I'm not really motivated to even do it a second time.

Edited March 9 by Cameryn.5310

[Kiki.9450]

I actually think this is all an intended point of the story. We start off getting direction from friends, and then we get sucked into (literally) this weird new place where we know nobody, and have to keep it all a secret. Well ok, we know Zojja, but she's different from before (time will do that to any of us) and now we need to adjust ourselves and work through our given situation. As we go, we learn that actually our skillset is quite useful here, and even needed, if Peitha is to be believed, else Tyria may have to deal with a big nasty problem named 'Eparch' if he succeeds to consume Nayos, as is allegedly his plan. To make matters worse, the one person we thought we knew took on a massive change herself (we support her, but not without feeling hurt by her choice) and has been semi-absent since. We haven't had an opportunity to bond with any of these new friends, and now we miss our old job.

Makes me think of taking a new job in another city or country and having to leave friends and family behind. Only in Commander's case, this job was taken sort of unknowingly. We thought we were signing up to play detective, not world saviour once again.

TLDR for above: Makes sense to me that we'd miss our pre-SotO friends.

Opinion: I'm fine with side-lining them for a bit. It's refreshing to see fewer "Please kill off ___!" threads... But I do want to see some of them return from time to time, as it would make sense to do so, and for new characters to get the actual chance they need to breathe in the story to become more popular. I really like Lyhr for example and would love to see more of him. I know it's popular opinion, but Mabon was interesting and could have done with more story time as well (but I understand his sudden 'departure' had purpose with my above statement). A character from before that I want to like is Yao, but they haven't had enough development. And bringing up Zojja a few times here, I do realise she needed to be brought back eventually and that this was it. As things are now, if we leave SotO and not see Zojja again, we at least have a canon reason why (though I hope we get a bit of closure before then, if even just a sort of formal "see you later?"). I don't think any other character we've had even semi-significant screentime with is currently in a state of "where the heck is them?" right now.

TLDR for above #2: Characters need time to breathe to become "good" or "popular" with the community and I feel as though SotO's characters haven't had that (yet?). Sometimes you need to put characters away to give screen space to other characters and to prevent character fatigue with the community.

Overall, I think it's ok there's a chunk of the community that misses our old friends. I also agree with the chunk of the community that was getting worn out with them too.

[Cameryn.5310]

I don't disagree with anything you said, Kiki.9450.  

That said, I know it's also just my opinion, and there are many different viewpoints about this.  I just know that, for me personally, the complete absence of the familiar cast of characters and the total lack of empathy or connection I have for the new characters leads me to be very bored and uninterested in what's happening.  And that's sort of wrecked my enjoyment of SotO.

I don't begin to think I'm speaking for the majority, either, although I'm sure there are plenty of people who do agree.  To each their own.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

The story itself is good in my taste, but...

Why are we now an extra? It feels like I am watching a movie rather than be part of a story.

I am not the Wayfinder, I am the Commander. 12 years to earn that title, and some hocus pocus wizard decides my title holds no bearing? 
I surely hope the next expansion puts us back as main character and not an extra. 

[Ashen.2907]

Never was a fan of Destiny's Sludge so I dont miss them. Except for Braham (and Caithe if she counts) I cant say that it was the characters themselves so much as how they were used that was offputting. 

I would absolutely love a cast of characters, a main supporting cast, to bond with. Such characters are often my favorite aspect of fantasy literature. 

[Padrion.7382]

3 hours ago, Cameryn.5310 said:

I miss my team.  My pact.  Taimi, Rytlock, Rox, Braham, Aurene, Kas & Jory, and even Caithe and Canach

The only one I can stand of those is Rox. Because she barely says anything. Well I guess Kas & Jory are OK each on their own. But not when they are together. If I ever miss Taimi please shoot me.

[Teknomancer.4895]

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

we get sucked into (literally) this weird new place where we know nobody, and have to keep it all a secret

Because some shady strangers tell us so, and we apparently take direction from shady strangers now. Did we at least get a lollipop before we got into the back of the van with no windows?

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

if Peitha is to be believed

Which just so happens to be the biggest "if" in the entire expansion. My vote is NO.

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

To make matters worse, the one person we thought we knew took on a massive change herself (we support her, but not without feeling hurt by her choice) and has been semi-absent since.

Stockholm Syndrome, yo.

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

We haven't had an opportunity to bond with any of these new friends

Mostly because aside from R'tchikk's fan-girling, the rest of them are condescending if not outright hostile, not to mention completely dismissive of everything we've done prior to meeting them. Some "new friends."

3 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

Characters need time to breathe to become "good" or "popular" with the community and I feel as though SotO's characters haven't had that (yet?).

It might help if the characters were actually likable. The Astral Ward largely isn't. They both annoy me, but I'd happily trade the entire Astral Ward for a Taimi-and-Gorrik story.

[Mell.4873]

My post is a little spoilery..... 

 

Honestly I really like Peitha, I feel like the newest iteration of whatever a GW2 story is (which is not much) is very mature. 

We are dealing with a more mature theme that just X Dragon/God doing bad stuff. We are instigated a full on rebellion against a tyrannical dictator who his eating his subjects; that is pretty dark. 

The whole thing of Peitha whispering to us and helping through persuasive means. The fact that no one trust her but you the Commander, I mean Wayfinder. The fact she is so eager to kill her brothers and sisters; It all sounds so saucy. 

[Randulf.7614]

Taking a break from the old team was the correct decision and finding our own way in the new world is part of the story. The fact that players are missing them means the writers did their job, despite years of heavy about the NPCs.

This is no different to when we left Destiny’s Edge behind for the group we met in LS1. Same feelings. Same complaints. There’s an argument we haven’t connected with everyone enough, but I don’t think a new round of NPCs to group with is a bad thing and this lot are better than Destiny’s Edge when we first met them. And it’s not like the old characters won’t be back later. 

My issue is more not feeling like the hero in the latest update. Our character feels too much like a pet henchman right now. And a lower quality map/story in Nayos is contributing to any sense of disengagement.

[Kiki.9450]

22 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Because some shady strangers tell us so, and we apparently take direction from shady strangers now. Did we at least get a lollipop before we got into the back of the van with no windows?

1. For non-sylvari, didn't Trahearne just sorta show up out of nowhere and more or less told us to get in the van to help him kill a dragon and reclaim Orr? I recall this being the main reason non-sylvari players didn't like him.

2. I don't recall Brim and Scarab Detective Agency (a.k.a. Gorrik, Rama, and Ivan) being "shady strangers" seeing as we helped them sorta start up during the Gyala Delve story sequence. But I get it, nobody liked that part of the story so nobody paid any attention and just memed about the tunnel instead.

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Which just so happens to be the biggest "if" in the entire expansion. My vote is NO.

Sure. I don't trust her, and I imagine my mesmer doesn't fully trust her either. But as I mentioned, it's either trust her and hopefully stop Eparch by following her plan, or deal with Eparch when he's more powerful and trying to chew on Tyria. Assuming that all happens. Personally I'm hoping for a "bad" ending here where either Eparch wins or Peitha shows us up. Maybe Wayfinder's possessed a bit or something.

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Stockholm Syndrome, yo.

1. Not actually a thing.

2. Zojja, in her state of severe depression, goes out to find new opportunities and in doing so makes new friends. Is it a bad thing that she's choosing to continue to work with them?

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Mostly because aside from R'tchikk's fan-girling, the rest of them are condescending if not outright hostile, not to mention completely dismissive of everything we've done prior to meeting them. Some "new friends."

I don't recall Lyhr, Frode, Narcisse, Uenno, or Zazzle being particularly nasty to us in any way, shape or form. I don't recall Arina being nasty to us after our initial meeting, and there she was just doing her job. (Think cranky body guard. Not a jerk per se, but has to hold up an image and keep people who don't belong out of their business. That's how I viewed her. She didn't want us meddling with the hunt. But we meddled, and now there's a whole expansion about it lol) 

Galrath, Isgarren, Dagda (though she seems to be warming up to us) I will give you.

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It might help if the characters were actually likable. The Astral Ward largely isn't. They both annoy me, but I'd happily trade the entire Astral Ward for a Taimi-and-Gorrik story.

Sure. Again, most of the characters introduced to us in SotO haven't had the opportunity to even really appear likable, for the most part. Like Narcisse for example. She shows up, says four lines (in the wrong accent! 😠) and then just sorta... shows up for one event in Amnytas and that's it. She doesn't do much, story-wise, with us and we have no opportunity to get to know her beyond finding out she's a naturalist/healer and has a thing for plants (heehoo plantpeoplelikeplantshurdurr). 

That's probably why I like Lyhr most really, because he gets the most screentime (and therefore development time), second to Zojja. I was never a fan of Zojja, rather I found her to be quite nasty in the personal story (yes I get it) and that just didn't work for me. Lyhr seems fun though, and I'd like to know whatever more about him that I can learn. Like, why does he always charge extra ectos for everything? (Not serious but I actually do wonder if there's a canon reason lol) I also wouldn't mind learning more about Mabon, perhaps in more journals, characters telling us more about him, or in the form of "flashbacks" like we had with R'tchikk and Glade.

 

In the end, anyone who doesn't like SotO's story should have just not listened to Ivan lol "Oh what, the townsfolk are upset about something with a tower? Doesn't sound particularly important."

[Omega.6801]

My main problems with the new characters are:
- Zojja: Was dearly missed by the community for years, by myself only a bit (not a huge Asura fan) but let's go with "dearly missed". Was hyped up "We're bringing Zojja back, ZOMG YOU GUYS!!!" She even is on the client screen. Then she gets a semi prominent role in the first act of the story, Zojja is basically the 1st grade henchman to the Wayfinder who's the "really new person on the job". After that she gets lobotomized and shoved out of the story.
I expected her to be with us. I kinda though that she would be the link between our old and this new adventure. Patching things up while doing the new stuff. Nope, she's unavailable, here's creepy demon lady for me to hang out with,
- The rest of the wizard bunch: As a whole, the fraction would have been very interesting. The fractals, their absence during tyrias struggles all the weird science and magic would have provided some great grey tones. The individuals we met also are mostly ok, I think I liked most of them beside Isgarren. But again, the most colorful are staying behind most of the time after act 1. Sure we get Frode, his Daughter (I think) and Galrath, but where's the rest? Where's a small outpost run by Livia with a small story about her opinion on the whole thing? What are Glade and R'tchikk up to these days? The Astral ward has some good characters but as soon as we set foot into Nayos we almost exclusively deal with Kryptis, as enemies as well as allies.
- Named Kryptis: The Kryptis as a whole kinda fall flat for me. They all look the same, use maybe seven different models only size makes them different. Games are a visual medium, and when your allies, your enemies and a good portion of your environment share the same surface structure, it gets old really fast. I get that with the last two releases a lot of story is told through achievements, collectables and optional dialogues. But I couldn't tell you a single name of these NPCs for the life of me. I know Ramses because they were around long enough and I know Ilja, because their death was so comically forced. Nephus is new and we see where this is going. But what I would need is just more time to care about these characters. If they can't be visually distinct, they have to be distinct by character. And that just isn't happening in a single dialogue instance and a short stroll along a battlefield where we whack 4 random veteran Kryptis.
- Peitha: I'm just not buying it. I'm just not buying it to a point where if she turns out to be actually good, I will be rolling my eyes becouse it's out of character. If she's backstabbing us, I'll be bored out of my skull because it's just what I'm expecting. And if she pull's a Desmina and "We will never know..." I'll also be unsatisfied because "I will never know...". This is definitely my problem.. But it also has to do with what I wrote above. If I could focus on other characters, I would have less time to think about Peitha. Peitha could interact with other characters more. We could be more informed about her and maybe she could be more interesting. But we don't have that. We have her, we have bland and samey Kryptis (maybe Nephus will go somewhere), the Astral Ward is tangled up in logistics and doesn't interact with her or us on a character level. And that's about it.
- And with all that: There's only one more release and I doubt we will hear from any of this, Nayos, the Astral Ward, the characters after SotO is done again. And if the last patch is about the size of the last two, there's not a lot of space to work with. How much more character development for Nephus or Eparch can they do, given that arc 4 will have maybe 4 instances, one of which will be and end fight? And that's if no new characters get introduced or brought back. I don't miss the old cast a lot, but supporting characters are important to a story. They give the main character something to play off of. Someone to ask questions. Someone to point something out or move the story into a certain direction. You can remove the supporting cast of a narrative, but you have to replace it with something of somewhat equal value and they didn't do that imho. That's what I am missing with SotO.

Edited March 10 by Omega.6801

[Kiki.9450]

35 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

- Peitha: I'm just not buying it. I'm just not buying it to a point where if she turns out to be actually good, I will be rolling my eyes becouse it's out of character. If she's backstabbing us, I'll be bored out of my skull because it's just what I'm expecting. And if she pull's a Desmina and "We will never know..." I'll also be unsatisfied because "I will never know...". This is definitely my problem.. But it also has to do with what I wrote above. If I could focus on other characters, I would have less time to think about Peitha. Peitha could interact with other characters more. We could be more informed about her and maybe she could be more interesting. But we don't have that. We have her, we have bland and samey Kryptis (maybe Nephus will go somewhere), the Astral Ward is tangled up in logistics and doesn't interact with her or us on a character level. And that's about it.

I agree with you here, somewhat. I won't be disappointed if Peitha betrays us, depending on how it plays out. Needs an interesting approach I think. I don't know.

Spoiler

I did feel that Labris' demise was interesting as I wasn't expecting Peitha to want to stay her execution, followed by Labris herself choosing to die and empower Eparch afterward. I 100% expected we were just going to go there, slap Labris to death, and then brood about Eparch.

One thing that I'm thinking I wish we had more of is interaction between Peitha and Isgarren. Not only for what you mention, but also just to get more out of Isgarren as well. Maybe I just want to know about that history that Isgarren and Eparch supposedly share, and that could have been an opportunity.

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- And with all that: There's only one more release and I doubt we will hear from any of this, Nayos, the Astral Ward, the characters after SotO is done again. And if the last patch is about the size of the last two, there's not a lot of space to work with. How much more character development for Nephus or Eparch can they do, given that arc 4 will have maybe 4 instances, one of which will be and end fight? And that's if no new characters get introduced or brought back.

My biggest concern. As it is right now, if they finish the SotO story and don't make an obvious plan to pick up any purposefully left-open threads in the future, I'm afraid the ending will be rushed worse than any ending we've seen before in GW2 storytelling. It's a big part of why I'm hoping expansion 5 features either a smaller story or something that feels like "yes this can easily span several expansions without feeling like it will drag on and on." (At the same time, how do you make this impactful though? I'd hate to start seeing a bunch of "I don't care about this boring story, bring back the dragons and demons!" threads...)

I overall agree with the other points you made.

[Cameryn.5310]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Taking a break from the old team was the correct decision

For you.  Not for me.

The game is boring for me right now.  I'd rather do older stuff with my characters because I just cannot get into the SotO story... I'm not invested and the characters are boring.

[Randulf.7614]

4 hours ago, Cameryn.5310 said:

For you.  Not for me.

The game is boring for me right now.  I'd rather do older stuff with my characters because I just cannot get into the SotO story... I'm not invested and the characters are boring.

It’s impossible for them to get it right for everyone. And a lot of feedback was against the old team. And like I said, this is no different to when they replaced Destiny’s Edge. I certainly find the  re npcs more interesting than at least half the old group who had long since outlived their time for me.

Being attached to the old team is fine, but not everyone liked them and it’s healthy for a story to bring in new blood for a bit. They can’t please everyone though.

[Morvran.8265]

I don't, please never bring them back.

Not a big fan of the new story but at least it's not the Starbucks teen group that was forced on us for 10 years. That's an improvement.

[Zebulous.2934]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

My post is a little spoilery..... 

 

... We are instigated a full on rebellion against a tyrannical dictator who his eating his subjects; that is pretty dark...

...The fact she is so eager to kill her brothers and sisters; It all sounds so saucy. 

These sound like King Thorn's sort of people!

I feel that Eparch and Mad King Thorn should meet.  I feel like that would be a good time!

Why not bring Thorn and his lunatic court into the mix?  It's not like the story is fully taking place in Tyria anymore.  The Mad Realm has to be closer to wherever the kryptis live than it is to Tyria.

Edited March 10 by Zebulous.2934

[Chichimec.9364]

Hmm, this is not meant as an argument with what anyone has said in this thread. It's just offering a different perspective on the topic. The story has always been the least important part of GW2 to me. More of a slog to get through than something I get immersed in or absorbed by. So I can't say I got attached to any of the old npcs or even know who most of the new ones are. The most important part of SotO to me was not the story, the new maps, nor the new legendary armor. (I already have all three sets of leggy armor from playing WvW.) Nope, the best part for me was the Wizard's Vault. As a WvW main with my main account, the new dailies and weeklies have reignited my interest in pve on my five alt accounts. I spend two hours a day in WvW and spend the rest of my time doing those dailies and weeklies on the alt accounts. The story and its associated npcs have nothing to do with my regular gameplay.

Again, this is not arguing with folks heavily invested in the story. It's just offering an alternative view. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[Teknomancer.4895]

11 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

These sound like King Thorn's sort of people!

I feel that Eparch and Mad King Thorn should meet.  I feel like that would be a good time!

Why not bring Thorn and his lunatic court into the mix?  It's not like the story is fully taking place in Tyria anymore.  The Mad Realm has to be closer to wherever the kryptis live than it is to Tyria.

And as a bonus, no one would be expected to take any of it seriously. Watching Thorn, Joko and Eparch trading barbs in the labyrinth would be much more entertaining than whatever this mess is we're currently getting.

[Ashantara.8731]

For me, not having the old characters around definitely isn't the problem I am having with SotO.

[AIex.4105]

I found annoying that little rat tami

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

I actually think this is all an intended point of the story.

Somehow i don't think that the story not being engaging was intended at all.

Notice, the issue is not the lack of the old team. The issue is that the new team is just bad. The most sympathetic NPC (and, honestly, the only one i did manage to start caring about) just got remover from the story completely. Few others that might do didn't move to further parts of the story. Peitha, okay, is an interesting character - but i'd never consider her friendly. Others? I barely know them and couldn't care less about their issues. The story itself also, after a good start in SOtO proper (with few hiccups), just went downhill very fast. By this point i honestly do not care about neither the Kryptis revolution, nor about Astral Ward. And both sides worked really hard to make me feel that way.

At the same time story delivery is just plain bad, and makes the not-so good situation much, much worse.