Headbutt the only utility in the entire game that has self stun.

[JinONplay.8905]

Why?

 

[Nash.2681]

Probably to have a consistent synergy with Outrage?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

5 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

Probably to have a consistent synergy with Outrage?

Only that the direct synergy was removed ages ago. 

 

[WingSwipe.3084]

24 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Only that the direct synergy was removed ages ago. 

 

How so?

[zeyeti.8347]

it still break out the stun , but i guess op is speaking of the old version where breaking out of stun give more berserker duration , simply rewarding the synergy , now outrage is just ripping out the bad side of headbutt without any reward.

[Plautze.6290]

12 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

it still break out the stun , but i guess op is speaking of the old version where breaking out of stun give more berserker duration , simply rewarding the synergy , now outrage is just ripping out the bad side of headbutt without any reward.

Let's not forget that it increases the duration of berserk by 3 seconds if there is an enemy nearby. With that, we can basically just headbutt, go berserk and outrage in 1 fluid motion and can stay in berserk pretty much endlessly, if we make frequent use of blood reckoning and wild blow.

It still is kinda self-defeatist, I'll admit, but it could be way, way worse 😆

Edited May 31 by Plautze.6290

[Jzaku.9765]

Its because [Head Butt] has a very low CD for it's stun duration, so they slapped a tradeoff on it - deducting the self-stun duration of 1s from the stun of 3s gives you effectively a 2s Stun on 18s CD.

Of course, they then went on to implement utterly disgusting skills like [Oaken Cudgel] which is a weapon skill that stuns for 1.5s on a 12s CD that periodically resets its own CD and gives prot to allies and heals your pet and is a blast finisher completing every single bullet point on their balance manifesto slide regarding purity of purpose, so thats neither here nor there. It truly is a mystery. 

[Waffles.5632]

6 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Its because [Head Butt] has a very low CD for it's stun duration, so they slapped a tradeoff on it - deducting the self-stun duration of 1s from the stun of 3s gives you effectively a 2s Stun on 18s CD.

Of course, they then went on to implement utterly disgusting skills like [Oaken Cudgel] which is a weapon skill that stuns for 1.5s on a 12s CD that periodically resets its own CD and gives prot to allies and heals your pet and is a blast finisher completing every single bullet point on their balance manifesto slide regarding purity of purpose, so thats neither here nor there. It truly is a mystery. 

It's because no dev actually plays berserker, but there is a dev that plays ranger and even pvp's on ranger.

[Codename T.2847]

Because it's realistic, duh : D

[mirage.8046]

Stalwart Strength negates the self-stun entirely because you gain stability once you stun your target, however. I don't know if berserkers take the trait to circumvent the self-stun but it's worth pointing out. Apart from that trait, I take outrage to counteract the self-stun and extend berserk mode too. However, taking those 2 skills to counteract headbutt's downside is rather annoying, even if for the adrenaline gain and berserk duration.

[sherwinator.7954]

It's basically just a small stun and some dmg and you either need to waste a trait or a utility to offset the downside, it's an awful elite.

Edited June 2 by sherwinator.7954

[Bris.7984]

Wont happen... they don't care... move along.Subliminal message from "Balance Team".

[Lighter.5631]

What's Funny is that if you headbutt an enemy and enemy decides to stun break then enemy would be able to easily capitalize on a selfstunned warrior unless the warrior blow yet another stun break.

So much reward for the enemy and so much punishment for berserker for a stun that's used by the berserker. More so in team fights

One of the reasons why meta pvp zerker builds would rather use signet of rage for adrenaline.

Edited June 5 by Lighter.5631

[Widebody.5071]

Headbutt used to do a two second then it was upgraded to 3 second stun with a 1 second self stun. I remember it well, during in-forum poll on what to change for warriors I suggested a # second range stun shout. A few weeks later it become what itis now minus later changes. It actually had the short stun prior to the self stun.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 5/31/2024 at 12:33 PM, JinONplay.8905 said:

Why?

 

Have you ever tried headbutting someone?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

Have you ever tried headbutting someone?

My brother and I headbutted each other at a concert once.

[Kitty.4806]

I get why it is the way it is, but:

It used to ignore stability, now that it doesn't, it shouldn't self-stun and outrageous should be a flat 3 seconds anyway.

 

[Liewec.2896]

if you run Strength you can take Brave Stride since headbutt counts as a movement skill, and then you have stability and don't get stunned.

and if you run Defense you can use Stalwart Strength, which gives you stability when you disable an enemy.

with either of these Headbutt becomes a stun, adrenaline refresh with decent damage skill and a tiny CD. (and also great for triggering "on elite" relics)

[Smoothpine.1895]

I'm in agreement that they need to remove the self stun on using Headbutt. I know it's used to combo with your stun break, Outrage, for the full adrenaline meter to enter Berserk in an instant, but it feels like you're using two utility slots for the function of a single utility skill. I want to actually keep my Outrage ready for when I'm hit by an enemy's stun move and have the option to punish them for it.

Also, couldn't they allow us to use Berserk without it being dependent on the Adrenaline, since it's not considered a "Burst" skill?
I don't think it would be even broken, because it already has a cooldown timer to limit it's use.
Plus, the Burst and Berserk skills are on separate buttons anyway.  

Edited June 23 by Smoothpine.1895

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 5/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, WingSwipe.3084 said:

How so?

Before Nov 2022 Outrage gave extra Berserker Duration when you used it as a stun break.

This was removed with that patch. It now grants extra duration if you are near a target.

Edited June 23 by DanAlcedo.3281

[KryTiKaL.3125]

On 5/31/2024 at 12:02 PM, Jzaku.9765 said:

Its because [Head Butt] has a very low CD for it's stun duration, so they slapped a tradeoff on it - deducting the self-stun duration of 1s from the stun of 3s gives you effectively a 2s Stun on 18s CD.

Of course, they then went on to implement utterly disgusting skills like [Oaken Cudgel] which is a weapon skill that stuns for 1.5s on a 12s CD that periodically resets its own CD and gives prot to allies and heals your pet and is a blast finisher completing every single bullet point on their balance manifesto slide regarding purity of purpose, so thats neither here nor there. It truly is a mystery. 

I think this pretty well illustrates how Warrior is not necessarily acknowledged, undoubtedly because ANet doesn't have anyone who mains it on the balance/design team. Warriors ask for all of these changes, additions, reworks, just something or anything to iterate on the horrifically outdated design philosophies applied to the class, and what happens? Other classes get these designs and changes. Warrior then routinely continues to be forced into this position where its unfortunately outdated profession mechanic is genuinely holding it back from ANet doing any substantial changes to it.

Seriously. The complete design inconsistency of having an Elite skill in the game for 9 years that stuns but also self stuns on one class and then they implement a weapon skill on another class that stuns for half a second longer, applies Protection to self and in an AoE, is a blast finisher, is on a shorter cooldown, can reset its own cooldown, and heals pet (as you pointed out in your post). Its obnoxious.

Its much like how Warriors, for 11 years, asked for fixes to Rush and its consistency and just an overall remedy to its jank and all the while they added other dash skills to other classes that functioned 100% better and Rush, even with their adjustments to it recently, is still...crap.

It is going beyond any matter of "skill issue" or learning curve or anything like that. Warrior, in its current state, is just not well handled and old. Its 2012 design does not hold up. Changes need to happen to its Profession mechanic/design for any significant dent to be made to these longstanding issues. However that boils down to whether or not ANet finds it priority enough to devote the time and resources required to even begin to start doing it.

There is also the concern of the how because I think every Warrior remembers how gloriously they scuffed the Banner rework upon initial implementation. I still find it absolutely hilarious how it only took them a month and some change (from June 28th to August 2nd) to roll out another rework to fix the botch job they did on that and it was actually decent. It kind of felt like they put maybe a weeks worth of work into the initial rework, like as a footnote project because no one cared enough and then the backlash from that forced them to actually have to do the work on it. Or, in the worst case scenario, they didn't finish making changes to it and decided to roll it out in an intentionally unfinished state just so they could say they did something in the Balance patch just to get another month of work to put on it. However I don't think the latter is the case. How does that saying go? "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" and I don't even mean that literally, I just think there is a lack of understanding of the class in their own team because...its such a simple class concept, not really all that flashy, very straightforward and so it just isn't the most interesting thing to play for most people despite how genuinely cool the Warrior archetype can be.

[LichOverlord.6329]

Hot take: I actually like the self-stun, as it's thematically fitting for the class and makes sense that headbutting an enemy really hard should stun yourself too

BUT

I think it should be mega buffed - the self-stun should allow them to have an even bigger power budget that lets them make it crazy good, and the trade-off is that you have to suffer a little stun

Increase the power coefficient from the current 4.5 back to the whopping 7.2 it was on release - you should be enticed to stun yourself with absolutely massive damage and solid defiance break - it should feel like the tradeoff for power, not a punishment

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The presence of the self stun, should be justification for it to deal heavy damage to the target in PvP/WvW...

[cryorion.9532]

In PvE, the self-stun is not a big issue imo and I don't mind it that much especially when we are encouraged to use it with outbreak which nicely aligns with rotation and berserker/adrenaline mechanics. However, imo the issue is that the skill doesn't do damage in competetive modes since it's a hard cc. Curse that stupid february 2020 patch... what a big kitten you to warrior profession smh.

[Kitty.4806]

Remove the self stun!!!