Enough with the "New Race"

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:So you're trying to pit other suggestions against this one.No. I'm pointing out that it's not free nor cheap nor cost effective to implement new races, which is what some people claimed in this thread among others. I'm pointing out that to implement this one means that ANet won't be doing something else.

Who said it's free? Whose arguing cost effectiveness?

I think you're either acting as Captain Obvious or you're flipping the script. Those suggesting additional races KNOW it's not free and KNOW it's costly, that's why they are making suggestions...or have you forgotten what the discussion is about? Or perhaps you just don't remember me from our previous back-and-forths...

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

If Anet wants to put in work to make other races playable, they can/will.

Indeed.But they have stated explicitly that, for now at least, they do not want to.

It's not a matter of this vs that or finite resources but merely time and choice.

Why do you think that "time" is different from "finite resources" or "choice" different from "this vs that"? It's

always

a matter of this vs that, it's always a matter of finite resources. Game studios can only do so many things; they have to choose.

Because "finite resources" alludes to "allocation of resources" which you have no power or say in the matter thus not really your gavel to hammer and "this vs that" presents a fallacy that, "if you want this, then you can't have that" which is just a kitten argument to make on your part.

And stop talking for the game studios. You're not the game studios. Just like the people suggesting more races aren't talking for the game studios, but for themselves and their own interests.

To put it particularly bluntly, stop pretending your self interests are that of Anet.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

To put it plainly, suggestions on the forums don't have to be ideologically or objectively exclusiveAnd I haven't ever implied otherwise. I would love to see new races; I think (done well) they are a big part of what makes games fun for me, as well as many, many others. But I understand that it takes time, creativity, and resources, all of which are also needed for conceiving, designing, implementing, and testing other features & content.If people want to talk about what next race they'd like to see, great. If people want to talk about how a new race might be implemented, good. But when people claim that this is easy or cheap, I'll post again to point out that this isn't easy or cheap. When people claim that a new race can be watered down to just a new skin, I'll point out that lots of people expect a new race to include the things that make new races different from the existing ones. And most of all, I'll remind people that ANet doesn't often comment about long range plans, but in the case of new races, they have: they aren't planning to add any.

You may not have

said

it, but it certainly IS implied. That's why I made the argument of "this vs that"...I just don't feel it's productive. And as an individual arguing from their own biased perspective, when the game is pushing more content that I don't care about or participate in and I desire them to do something I want, I feel it is perfectly acceptable to express what content I prefer they put out.

And not that it really matters, but I've already put my foot down on this matter around a year ago as I have not spent a dime nor solidly played the game in a year (logged in to try the change to the Vision Sigil exclusively then logged right back out) and don't have plans to involve myself in the game until I can make a Necromancer of the new race. If that's the way the cookie crumbles, then so be it.

So you don’t even play this game anymore.

If they put in a new race and you don’t like it any better than a Human, Sylvari, Charr, Norn, or Asura then I guess you still won’t be playing it.

/shrug, seems like a pretty small reason not to play, waiting for a new race that you don’t even know you’ll like. Considering you don’t like any of the current 5 choices enough to play my guess is a 6th choice won’t hold you either.

I don't like Human or Norn but I still have characters of them that I play because they are exclusively my Ranger and Engineer and I had been playing them quite a bit with the new PoF specs.

Shrug all you like. I have a sense of discipline to know, to fully enjoy playing a Necro (which I have abstained from playing since launch), it'd be through the scope of a new race.

And I find it funny how dismissive (in a disrespectful manner) you seem to be in regards to my regard of the other race choices. Sylvari is very unique and Asura and Charr are FIRE! I feels is very respectful to put your money where your mouth is and speak with your wallet while remaining respectful. Just because I enjoyed the game for years and happily spend cash for gems doesn't mean anyone is entitled to that support just like I'm not entitled to have my support reciprocated with content I want...but apparently, you feel your support should be reciprocated over mine? Mmm, I know there's a word for that...im-tib-...bled? en-...ti...duled? It's on the tip of my tongue...

You love Sylvari, Charr and Asura yet you’re not playing them and haven’t solidly played the game in a year. Instead you’re waiting on some other race that magically will fill some hole that these other races don’t, and not even a full race but some discount version of a race that is skin only.

It does make sense now why you’re so anxious to have a new race. Playing the game hasn’t been fun enough for you to play since a year so you think that some new skin will make the game exciting again. Yet you don’t even know what race it will be or what this skin will look like or even if you will like it better than the race skins you already have. I think you’re putting a lot of expectations on a future, unknown skin to make the game fun again for you. It also explains why you’re willing to ask for a hollowed out, bargain basement, cut rate, no frills version of a race since it’s the skin only that you care about and hope that it will bring you back to the game.

What you don’t seem to understand is that the regular playbase wont be content with a no frills, skin only version but will expect the real deal. Just because a skin only version will do for you doesn’t mean that the rest of the players won’t find it a cheap, shoddy cash grab, and say so loudly on the forums.

If they’re going to put in races they need to do it right and so far they’ve said doing it right is not cost effective.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Rikimaru.7890" said:Ok let's assume we get a new race like Tengu, so how are we going to introduce them to the story now?

• Create racial city and 1-15 zone.
• Create Chapter 1-3 of PS
• Do VA for rest of PS, S2, HoT, S3, and S4

That's how. It wouldn't be a case of "this character enters the stage after all these events take place."

It'd be introduced no differently than revenant. More work, yes, by quite a bit, but not all that fundamentally different, and it'd work better than revenant since there'd be no "what strange magic is this that you're using and our pal here used from the beginning but we never bring it up".

If they absolutely have to do full Voice Over for all previous content then I can say with 100% certainty that we will never, ever, see a new race implemented in the game. I don't think anyone will disagree with this, it's way too much work adding all those voiced lines, for minimal gain. What is possible though is to have the new race start at level 80 (with a short prologue to introduce them), then they join the next expansion's story only. They meet some members of Dragon's Watch and become friends with them, similarly how DW became friends with Blish, Boticca or even Zafirah. The story of the new race could start as self-contained, like a side story, and if it's successful enough move on to become a "commander" in the future.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Rikimaru.7890" said:Ok let's assume we get a new race like Tengu, so how are we going to introduce them to the story now?

• Create racial city and 1-15 zone.
• Create Chapter 1-3 of PS
• Do VA for rest of PS, S2, HoT, S3, and S4

That's how. It wouldn't be a case of "this character enters the stage after all these events take place."

It'd be introduced no differently than revenant. More work, yes, by quite a bit, but not all that fundamentally different, and it'd work better than revenant since there'd be no "what strange magic is this that you're using and our pal here used from the beginning but we never bring it up".

No Path of Fire? Poor new race.

[Balsa.3951]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:Are u one of those Mount NO people? if enough people are willing to spend money on that Anet will do it.

I personal dont need another race in the game Combat Tonics could the solution for everybody

you can make a Norn look like a Drawf already with a Tonic and u can make a Largos use a Sylvary and that backpack from the gemstore, Koda Combat tonic is also already here.

now just need be able to mount and done

I might just be crazy here, and hear me out on this...but you can't customize combat tonics...

I mean, can we replace the whole of the wardrobe system with combat tonics? Yes, that works? Okay, then let's get rid of armor and the custom character creator and make-over kits and outfits and let's just have human, asura, sylvari, etc tonics instead!

agreed ok how about than a size slider for norn in the character creation which enables drawfen size ? Humans got kinda a new race with Elonians kinda kinda without getting to political lol. For Sylvari add some Largos Faces and skin patterns

that would be 2 new races

[Leo G.4501]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:Are u one of those Mount NO people? if enough people are willing to spend money on that Anet will do it.

I personal dont need another race in the game Combat Tonics could the solution for everybody

you can make a Norn look like a Drawf already with a Tonic and u can make a Largos use a Sylvary and that backpack from the gemstore, Koda Combat tonic is also already here.

now just need be able to mount and done

I might just be crazy here, and hear me out on this...but you can't customize combat tonics...

I mean, can we replace the whole of the wardrobe system with combat tonics? Yes, that works? Okay, then let's get rid of armor and the custom character creator and make-over kits and outfits and let's just have human, asura, sylvari, etc tonics instead!

agreed ok how about than a size slider for norn in the character creation which enables drawfen size ? Humans got kinda a new race with Elonians kinda kinda without getting to political lol. For Sylvari add some Largos Faces and skin patterns

that would be 2 new races

For the record, I have always been flexible and negotiable when it comes to the subject of adding races. The issue is, the subject is always sidetracked by [insert dev comment from an article] or "I want races to have all the pies in the sky and since the pies are too big, it is impossible!" The moment you start to poke the subject from other angles, those that don't even care about the subject either way (because they're fine with their humans or whatever) shut it down.

Regarding tonics, I have never been a fan of tonics and even with the changes to them, I still find pretty meh. They could beef up tonics even more or cross current features to facilitate many new things (can you imagine customizing tonics? or blending outfits with some tonics?) Having tweeked models/faces for certain races to facilitate additional races is another aesthetic avenue but I personally would still like some kind of story bringing that aspect of your character to light before pushing them into the miasma of "ambiguous main protagonist".

Other avenues could be NPC followers that have some customizeability while supporting new races or perhaps even main team members that are of other races beside the main 5. Some of these things can even be stepping stones toward bigger and more polished additions over time as these ideas don't have to come at the cost of another.

[Trise.2865]

I'm going to derail the argument here to once again suggest an alternative: side stories. There are near-infinite "elsewhere" stories happening but not being told, beyond Destiny's Edge, the Commander, and Dragon Watch. There's nothing that says new race options can't be accessed or introduced in microcosm via these types of instances, perhaps earning flavorful Racial-tier skills and/or Tonic transformations for use in the "main" game. This dodges continuity problems by taking place "elsewhere" or "meanwhile", and not necessarily dovetailing with the main stories. It limits production to specific frames and skins, and VA to a handful of instances and some in-world lines. This would, ideally, recreate the feel of creating new characters without necessarily doing that; a thin veneer to be sure, but it might just be enough to "scratch the itch", as it were.

While I'm on the subject of transformations and alternate races: please bring back the Spirit Forms as the Norn basic "combat mode". I fully understand this is complex and very unlikely to happen (especially with any level of customization), but the advent of Town Clothes Tonics and Novelty alternates has reignited my desire to Become the Bear, "for real this time".

[Einlanzer.1627]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love how everyone says this is impossible. It isn't; it would just require some creativity.

As I was Na said, its very possible.The effort, however, is very disproportionate to the reward.You’d have to pretty much rewrite the entire story up to this point.

That really isn't for you to decide, though. As someone above said, everyone above used to say this about mounts, and mounts very quickly became one of the best things in the game for the average player.

Also, I don't really think Anet would need to do that. It's just a mindless assumption everyone is making.

[phs.6089]

New race doesn't have to be part of story so far. Lets say we go Canta next expac and meet elves! How? They come from the mists, viola.We have mists guys and mist walkers, alpha and omega. And we all know whatever happens on the other side of mists, stays in mists.

[Ashen.2907]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love how everyone says this is impossible. It isn't; it would just require some creativity.

As I was Na said, its very possible.The effort, however, is very disproportionate to the reward.You’d have to pretty much rewrite the entire story up to this point.

That really isn't for you to decide, though. As someone above said, everyone above used to say this about mounts, and mounts very quickly became one of the best things in the game for the average player.

Also, I don't really think Anet

would

need to do that. It's just a mindless assumption everyone is making.

Agreed, its not for us to decide. Unfortunately (I would get a kick out of playale Tengu or Kodan) ANet has made that decision.

[Xenon.4537]

Everyone said mounts would never happen and look what we got. I was one of the people constantly explaining why it would be too much effort for Anet to make mounts. I was obviously wrong. It's a lot of work, but its possible.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Xenon.4537" said:Everyone said mounts would never happen and look what we got. I was one of the people constantly explaining why it would be too much effort for Anet to make mounts. I was obviously wrong. It's a lot of work, but its possible.

The difference is Anet never commented on the subject of mounts, while they've been clear about races not being any kind of priority because they are too much work for the potential gains. And if you want to compare mounts with races, mounts are for everyone, while races will be only for those that actually like the new race, you'd need new characters to see the new race, while any mount they add will be available and used by everyone.

There are many alternatives to a complete new race introduction like making them start their story from the expansion they are introduced instead of going through all the previous story content, or making them complete side stories with a new story that doesn't involve Dragon's Watch or the "commander" in any way, or rather involve them in a more limited way. The questions are: will those asking for new races be happy with such a race addition, instead of a complete race, and second, is it even possible to implement something like this or the spaghetti code of the core game would require serious re-writing to do it.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love how everyone says this is impossible. It isn't; it would just require some creativity.

As I was Na said, its very possible.The effort, however, is very disproportionate to the reward.You’d have to pretty much rewrite the entire story up to this point.

That really isn't for you to decide, though. As someone above said, everyone above used to say this about mounts, and mounts very quickly became one of the best things in the game for the average player.

Also, I don't really think Anet

would

need to do that. It's just a mindless assumption everyone is making.

You're right, its not for me to decide.It's for anet to decide, and they decided its very disproportionate to the reward.

Also mounts is a terrible argument, since you're comparing a mechanic/ability to the writing of three campaigns and 4 living world stories.

Also, since a lot of people have been echoing this comment independently of each other, what makes you think its a mindless assumption?

[Ashantara.8731]

I would have preferred a new episode instead of some beetle races. :s

[Einlanzer.1627]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love how everyone says this is impossible. It isn't; it would just require some creativity.

As I was Na said, its very possible.The effort, however, is very disproportionate to the reward.You’d have to pretty much rewrite the entire story up to this point.

That really isn't for you to decide, though. As someone above said, everyone above used to say this about mounts, and mounts very quickly became one of the best things in the game for the average player.

Also, I don't really think Anet

would

need to do that. It's just a mindless assumption everyone is making.

Agreed, its not for us to decide. Unfortunately (I would get a kick out of playale Tengu or Kodan) ANet has made that decision.

Decisions are often not final in MMOs.

[Palador.2170]

As I've said before, I think they'll eventually add in a new race. Maybe not now, but eventually they'll run out of easier things to add, and it will become the best choice for a new feature to draw people in/back.

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:They just need to create the lvl 1-30 story that is unique for each class and make ONE single link to the main story after that ... not that hard in term of developpement compared to what you are all saying !!

There's an easy way to link Tengu into the main story, and that is to make Izu Steelshrike their racial mentor figure. Izu clearly was of a mind to set out beyond the wall and play his part in the war against the dragons, and it's only logical that he wasn't the only one. As a highly skilled maker of weapons, it's also quite possible that he knew one or more members of Destiny's Edge.

So, we follow his example, and eventually get told that if we leave the Domain of the Winds we're not going to be allowed back in. We set out anyway, and he introduces us around. First to the Orders (our level 30 story arc), and then he attempts to introduce us to Destiny's Edge. Add Izu and the player Tengu standing off to the side during the Lion's Arch gathering of DE, and we get to be there for that and see how it goes. Maybe we talk to Caithe or Eir after, so it's assured that at least one of them knows us in person, and then it's off to join the order we selected. At this point, the story will progress naturally, as it's largely written so that the main character's race doesn't matter. You can fit a Tengu into the story just fine, they're out there and some are willing to fight, and while rare they're not so unheard of that anyone would need to comment on it.

The ongoing story for all characters then picks up with us (The Commander) being allowed into the Domain of the Winds, so everyone has access to the area now. That way, the zone isn't "one use only".

[Ashen.2907]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love how everyone says this is impossible. It isn't; it would just require some creativity.

As I was Na said, its very possible.The effort, however, is very disproportionate to the reward.You’d have to pretty much rewrite the entire story up to this point.

That really isn't for you to decide, though. As someone above said, everyone above used to say this about mounts, and mounts very quickly became one of the best things in the game for the average player.

Also, I don't really think Anet

would

need to do that. It's just a mindless assumption everyone is making.

Agreed, its not for us to decide. Unfortunately (I would get a kick out of playale Tengu or Kodan) ANet has made that decision.

Decisions are often not final in MMOs.

Agreed.

I think that those who desire this addition to the game should continue to say so. ANet has established a pattern of acting when they perceive sufficient community support for a given action.

[Akrasia.5469]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Rikimaru.7890" said:Enough with the "New Race"No.

What he said.

Also, mounts. The dead horse that people used to beat with a stick is alive now. You want the stick for races now?

Mounts were very cleverly implemented. Mounts in GW2 are nothing more than a movement/combat ability with the graphic of a creature to ride. It's visually satisfying for the people who demanded it but is not really a true mount like in other games.

That being said I do think something similar could be implemented for new races. Something between a mount and an Elite Specialization could solve the new race problem. Imagine a quest or mastery(both?) where upon completion you get the option to become an honorary member of a new race that's "spiritually" related to the race your character already is. Then you have the option to use a makeover kit to look like that race. For example if you're an Asura and you complete the quest you can become a Gnome. You'd still have the same backstory but you can use a makeover kit to give yourself Gnome features (beard big nose bright hair etc) and as their stature is similar there wouldn't be any work to convert the armors. Switching to a new race would open up some different dialog options and maybe some new PvE skills. Charr could become Koda or Xztel. Norn could become Ogres, Humans could become Largos, Sylvari could become an elemental race like water nymphs. It could also be a requirement to switch races to get to certain areas. If the 3rd expansion is the underwater rework then maybe becoming a water race is required to get to certain areas like mounts and gliders were needed in the last 2 expansions. Now, this wouldn't really be adding a whole new playable race but it would scratch that itch the same way the mount system did.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Akrasia.5469 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Rikimaru.7890" said:Enough with the "New Race"No.

What he said.

Also, mounts. The dead horse that people used to beat with a stick is alive now. You want the stick for races now?

Mounts were very cleverly implemented. Mounts in GW2 are nothing more than a movement/combat ability with the graphic of a creature to ride. It's visually satisfying for the people who demanded it but is not really a true mount like in other games.

That being said I do think something similar could be implemented for new races. Something between a mount and an Elite Specialization could solve the new race problem. Imagine a quest or mastery(both?) where upon completion you get the option to become an honorary member of a new race that's "spiritually" related to the race your character already is. Then you have the option to use a makeover kit to look like that race. For example if you're an Asura and you complete the quest you can become a Gnome. You'd still have the same backstory but you can use a makeover kit to give yourself Gnome features (beard big nose bright hair etc) and as their stature is similar there wouldn't be any work to convert the armors. Switching to a new race would open up some different dialog options and maybe some new PvE skills. Charr could become Koda or Xztel. Norn could become Ogres, Humans could become Largos, Sylvari could become an elemental race like water nymphs. It could also be a requirement to switch races to get to certain areas. If the 3rd expansion is the underwater rework then maybe becoming a water race is required to get to certain areas like mounts and gliders were needed in the last 2 expansions. Now, this wouldn't really be adding a whole new playable race but it would scratch that itch the same way the mount system did.

Wow, forgot about this thread. Would this be necroposting?

[Akrasia.5469]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Wow, forgot about this thread. Would this be necroposting?

I'm only posting here because I didn't want to start ANOTHER new thread about races and reading your comment I figured this was the one to reply to ;).So what do you think of my idea for raceshifting. AHA, that's what we'll call it :)

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The only way I can see a new race being added is if its core. Though its not very likely to be added since all content in the game involving personal story up to where we are now needs to have voice lines and cut scenes (the side to side ones that cost way too much time and resources to make) added to catch them up. Its not feasible.