Remove Treb From Battle of Khylo

[Chilli.2976]

Every-time someone uses it, the game is pretty much GG.

https://imgur.com/a/Da3Wu

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@"Chilli.2976" said:Every-time someone uses it, the game is pretty much GG.

https://imgur.com/a/Da3Wu

Treb is the unique mechanic of that particular map. I agree that it is often untouched or misused but it should be considered as a situational utility. Personally I don't use it 90% of the matches since my aim with it is poor, however if I see my team 3v3 at mid when I've just re-spawned, it's worth firing a couple of shots as long as you hit the cluster on clocktower. Rarely is this a game-changing tactic but it's certainly adds another dimension to the fight.

The two main issues occur if a player doesn't know when to use the treb - eg. camps it for more than 30 seconds or sits on it waiting to find targets OR doesn't know how to correctly aim. Both actions waste time which that same player could spend making an impact elsewhere. Personally I don't aim at far or home since I've never worked out the correct distance and also mid point is where more of the teamfights happen, therefore putting artillery pressure there is optimal.

TLDR: treb can be great in right hands and used at the correct time.

[Allarius.5670]

I liked the treb before the map changes and once upon a time I was pretty decent at using it; but, now the map has changed and, more importantly, so has the pace of the game. I agree with the notion that the treb is a relic and should be reworked/updated.

There was a lot of discussion a while back of what could be done with it. One of the ideas brought up that I liked was making the trebuchet available only at certain times during the game and have a more automated form of fire. For example, imagine if treb ammo spawned only a few times during game and had to be brought to the treb to activate it; then the player would select a point on the treb interface and the treb would fire a limited number of shots in succession at that point, de-capping it a bit each time proportional to the number of shots such that 100% was reached.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

I might be wrong but I think changing the treb mechanics was brought up the last time we had Q&A with Ben and co.

Oh yeah, I found it:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Treb is something we'd like to revisit at some point. Your idea is interesting.

Although this doesn't say much, at least we know they are aware of the currently useless mechanic. It's not on the change list right now though.

[Chilli.2976]

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:I might be wrong but I think changing the treb mechanics was brought up the last time we had Q&A with Ben and co.

Oh yeah, I found it:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Treb is something we'd like to revisit at some point. Your idea is interesting.

Although this doesn't say much, at least we know they are aware of the currently useless mechanic. It's not on the change list right now though.

They need to make the treb autohit the node but with a 5 second cool down, and when you turn it - it should only turn once and auto face the node. This should prevent bad players from using it and missing shots.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

[Turk.5460]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

...we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it.

Requesting Airstrike!

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

That's one of the things I really wanted for it. That and having limited ammo that is restocked over the fight so people don't just sit on a trebuchet and instead shoot a few rounds then go back to the fight.

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

I think you guys should consider making the treb a channeled capture like stillness or tranq and after you successfully do it automatically shoots around the map.I don't really forsee someone dedicating themselves to the treb and shooting would be beneficial at all in this meta. I could be wrong though the changes might make it not a throw everytime someone hops on it.

[Chilli.2976]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Ok, this is a start thank you.

[Kuya.6495]

Now the question is, with the changes ben just mentioned, is it worth it to go treb now?

[Ghos.1326]

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

I think you guys should consider making the treb a channeled capture like stillness or tranq and after you successfully do it automatically shoots around the map.I don't really forsee someone dedicating themselves to the treb and shooting would be beneficial at all in this meta. I could be wrong though the changes might make it not a throw everytime someone hops on it.

Agreed, would love to see it be viable and used strategically. Also, I think the capricorn secondary mechanic (cannon) really needs some looking into. As it stands currently, it is an essential thing because it scales more and more the more you get it. Here is a few things I think should happen to Capricorn cannon:

1. Make it only last a certain amount of time - This would give others a chance as well, if they can't beat the team who is teamfighting on it. Then they can return to capping the main objectives. Maybe only keep it up for around 30-40 seconds, and either after it is capped fully, or disappears, it goes on a cooldown until it comes back up.
2. Maybe make it not scale up like it does - This pretty much can ensure a snowball, and in my opinion promotes a healthy gameplay style. Taking out the scaling functionality of this secondary objective mechanic will still keep this important, since it will give you a point boost, but will NOT make this a necessity.

(Edit) One thing that should happen to my spelling, grammar, and spellcheck, is a flipping 500% buff -_-

[Malediktus.9250]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Sounds like it will make the trebuchet less skillful to use properly. Either leave it as it is or remove it completly. Not this casual bs.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Sounds like it will make the trebuchet less skillful to use properly. Either leave it as it is or remove it completly. Not this casual bs.

As it is is practically useless unless you know the majority of the enemy team is on the clocktower. And even then it takes practice to use correctly, making it difficult to use. It's slow and unresponsive.

A ground targeted version doesn't make less skillful to use effectively, just means that you can have more responsive aim and opens up its use to players who don't practice on the dang thing.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Basically the old skyhammer? Btw, about skyhammer, can you finally get rid of those nasty triggering pads; they are disgusting to deal with on a melee spec, cuz every side node monkey insta jumps up there when being plused, with no jumping puzzle skills required.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Sounds like it will make the trebuchet less skillful to use properly. Either leave it as it is or remove it completly. Not this casual bs.

As it is is practically useless unless you know the majority of the enemy team is on the clocktower. And even then it takes practice to use correctly, making it difficult to use. It's slow and unresponsive.

A ground targeted version doesn't make less skillful to use effectively, just means that you can have more responsive aim and opens up its use to players who don't practice on the dang thing.So it takes skill to use it at the right time and actually hit with it. And when it hits it does devasting damage, especially in the gold division and below. I see nothing wrong with the current trebuchet

[Vagrant.7206]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.

Sounds like it will make the trebuchet less skillful to use properly. Either leave it as it is or remove it completly. Not this casual bs.

As it is is practically useless unless you know the majority of the enemy team is on the clocktower. And even then it takes practice to use correctly, making it difficult to use. It's slow and unresponsive.

A ground targeted version doesn't make less skillful to use effectively, just means that you can have more responsive aim and opens up its use to players who don't practice on the dang thing.So it takes skill to use it at the right time and actually hit with it. And when it hits it does devasting damage, especially in the gold division and below. I see nothing wrong with the current trebuchet

Actually, it's mostly luck as it stands. You can barely see your targets, have to hope that they don't move too much, and watch the minimap and hope you're hitting where you intend to.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.Is this PvP only or for WvW also where the treb was designed to be used? And has the damage vs fortified/reinforced walls/doors been buffed because current trebs havent kept up with the rest of the siege and its weak as all fuck or too expensive.

Just wondering. I am pretty sure I already know the answer.

[BikeIsGone.8675]

As long as you have to dedicate a teammember to actively use it, I don't see "easier usage" to promote "more frequent usage". Any player with the least bit of awareness will still be able to just dodge it and punish the enemy team for playing with unequal numbers.

[Abazigal.3679]

The old treb map was perfect, i still fail to see why it did change. Now the treb is " really hard " to use and people can go easily from sides to mid. Which is a lot of snowballing and favours good setups.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

@"Abazigal.3679" said:The old treb map was perfect, i still fail to see why it did change. Now the treb is " really hard " to use and people can go easily from sides to mid. Which is a lot of snowballing and favours good setups.

Old meta doesn't have as much evade/invul and protect/damage mitigation as we do have now, so old map will hardly benefit from trebbing either.

[Abazigal.3679]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@"Abazigal.3679" said:The old treb map was perfect, i still fail to see why it did change. Now the treb is " really hard " to use and people can go easily from sides to mid. Which is a lot of snowballing and favours good setups.

Old meta doesn't have as much evade/invul and protect/damage mitigation as we do have now, so old map will hardly benefit from trebbing either.

That's my point. Meta is clearly " easier " than it used to be, and the map is also easier to play. Having scourges/fb forced to do the whole path around mid, and also having to dodge treb shoots might be interesting and give possibilities to hard setups.

[Loboling.5293]

I really like treb. High skill cap to know when to use it, and how. I've swung many games with a few good rotations and some beautiful treb shots. Probably the best feeling to be 100 points behind and to wipe the enemy team to treb, and crawl back and get the win.

Always sad to see this game become less skillful, but I look forward to trying the changes to aiming treb, the truth is that I was never a fan of the controls anyway. Although I forced myself to learn it.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.Is this PvP only or for WvW also where the treb was

designed to be used

? And has the damage vs fortified/reinforced walls/doors been buffed because current trebs havent kept up with the rest of the siege and its weak as all kitten or too expensive.

Just wondering. I am pretty sure I already know the answer.

Currently, just for PvP. It's something we've been evaluating for WvW as well. I was planning to start a topic on the WvW forums after it's been live in PvP for a week or so to see how people would feel about us to bring the aiming + camera change there as well.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We actually have some treb changes going into the next release.

We changed the control scheme to be ground targeted and we now pull the camera WAY up when you're using it. We want to see how changing the usability of the treb works before deciding on if the mechanic needs additional work.Is this PvP only or for WvW also where the treb was

designed to be used

? And has the damage vs fortified/reinforced walls/doors been buffed because current trebs havent kept up with the rest of the siege and its weak as all kitten or too expensive.

Just wondering. I am pretty sure I already know the answer.

Currently, just for PvP. It's something we've been evaluating for WvW as well. I was planning to start a topic on the WvW forums after it's been live in PvP for a week or so to see how people would feel about us to bring the aiming + camera change there as well.

Ground targeting might reduce the effectiveness of afk-holding-down-trebfire in WvW.