Ranged should never outdamage melee

[Ashen.2907]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:So being hit by a sword should do more damage than a rifle? I don't think so.

Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Depending on the sword it will likely generate much more force than the rifle shot.

[Plautze.6290]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:There is no such thing as a “ranged class” in this game. All classes have melee and ranges options. Elementalist and Thief are high damage classes in general, so I don’t see anything wrong with their ranged options out-damaging the melee options

of other

classes.

Only time there is an issue would be their ranged options out-damaging

their own

melee options. Melee has the most risk, and should be the most rewarding in that regard.

How about core Engi? That one has no melee options.

It has ranged options that are in practice essentially melee weapons, such as the Rifle and Flamethrower Kit etc.

Technically

ranged, but most effective in melee range.

Let's not forget the bomb kit here. Even more melee options.Or my personal favorite, the wrench!!

[Feanor.2358]

@"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:The recent Meteor Shower bug and Deadeye changes made me think about this a lot. I think it's really backwards that some of the highest damage in the game comes from ranged classes. In general, it is FAR harder to land a skill with tiny melee range than it is to dump a huge 1200 range AoE.

Except not. "Melee train" term exists for a reason.

[Ryou.2398]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:The recent Meteor Shower bug and Deadeye changes made me think about this a lot. I think it's really backwards that some of the highest damage in the game comes from ranged classes. In general, it is FAR harder to land a skill with tiny melee range than it is to dump a huge 1200 range AoE. Why is GW2 so backwards in this regard, and do you agree that melee should (in general) outdamage ranged due to requiring more skill and accuracy to land melee skills?

On classes that are really weak and squishy in melee range I disagree, as these has been the staple of dnd and rpgs for many years when it comes to those kinds of classes, if you make all ranged classes the same amount of strength and etc it would be very boring.

[Ryou.2398]

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

Most common and overlooked problem in mmorpgs is right here everyone this guy knows, and its been true for ages people need to realize this.

[Balsa.3951]

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

[zealex.9410]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

In solo it doesnt mater what others or other builds do its solo, you play what you like.

[Brother.1504]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:So being hit by a sword should do more damage than a rifle? I don't think so.

Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight.

In the real world engineers would do the most damage. Guns, bombs, grenades, mortars, etc.

[Feanor.2358]

@Brother.1504 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:So being hit by a sword should do more damage than a rifle? I don't think so.

Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight.

In the real world engineers would do the most damage. Guns, bombs, grenades, mortars, etc.

Not in a world where magic wielders exist.

[Balsa.3951]

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

[Balsa.3951]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

In solo it doesnt mater what others or other builds do its solo, you play what you like.

OP ask about that range should not be more dmg than melee. I just kinda was thinking we stay on topic

[zealex.9410]

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

In solo it doesnt mater what others or other builds do its solo, you play what you like.

OP ask about that range should not be more dmg than melee. I just kinda was thinking we stay on topic

Same, whcih isnt true for a part of the game. Staying in topic always.

[Biff.5312]

I think it's true to life. The idea isn't that you should do more damage with melee, but that if the distance between you is closed, the ranged opponent is screwed. So as long as you have ways to close the distance/root the enemy in place, and he has no blocks for your melee attacks, this is how it should work.

[Hot Boy.7138]

I would actually like it if ranged did the same damage as melee in pve. And if they updated their boon share system to have a larger radius and include 10 peeople, then it would open up soooooo many more viable builds. And things will change from this stacking meta that has existed for 6 years.

They only need to design encounters that offer obstacles for ranged players in addition to melee players. And that is definitely possible.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I would actually like it if ranged did the same damage as melee in pve. And if they updated their boon share system to have a larger radius

Then you might as well delete all melee weapons from the game.

[Dante.1763]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I would actually like it if ranged did the same damage as melee in pve. And if they updated their boon share system to have a larger radius

Then you might as well delete all melee weapons from the game.

Not even. Lots of people love being up close and personal, just as many do not. In general PVE it shouldnt matter what weapon you use(and really it doesnt) but for a few classes it makes more sense for their ranged weapons to do just as much damage as melee does. Saddly they dont. Not all ranged weapons should do as much, but still.

[sorudo.9054]

when a profession dies fast in melee you don't want to do less damage ranged, you want massive damage while being easily killed.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I would actually like it if ranged did the same damage as melee in pve. And if they updated their boon share system to have a larger radius

Then you might as well delete all melee weapons from the game.

Did you read my post? I said devs could easiily design encounters that pose obstacles for ranged players as they do for melee. You ever raid in other games. That's usually how they do it. Sometimes the challlenges for melee are greater, sometimes the challenges for ranged are greater. Sometimes it's about equal. This game would be better and create more diversity in viable builds, content, and boss design if ranged weapons did the same damage as melee in pve, and if boon sharing had a much bigger range and affected 10 people.

And for the record, I only melee, but I see the benefits of making ranged weapons pve viable.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I would actually like it if ranged did the same damage as melee in pve. And if they updated their boon share system to have a larger radius

Then you might as well delete all melee weapons from the game.

Not even. Lots of people love being up close and personal, just as many do not. In general PVE it shouldnt matter what weapon you use(and really it doesnt) but for a few classes it makes more sense for their ranged weapons to do just as much damage as melee does. Saddly they dont. Not all ranged weapons should do as much, but still.

In WoW, i used to be a warlock. And it was my first mmo and first experience raiding. After a couple years I switched to death knight. One of the biggest things I noticed was how LOUD it was in melee. Melee just wasn't for me. But I've since grown to love melee, maybe cause I just enjoy the class I play in this game so much. So yeah, people should def have more choice of weapons.

[BlackBeard.2873]

The concept of risk vs. reward is a very good one, but I don't think you are taking a global enough view.

For instance: melee vs. ranged, surely melee has more damage.

But what about these other considerations:

1. Consistency (time risk for damage output): How easy and consistent is the damage to land. For instance, staff ele against stationary targets does great damage, now have that target move, even in a predictable pattern, and your dps drop a LOT (especially at high mobility). Make it even a little unpredictable and your damage is now almost worthless (one of the reasons staff ele is worthless in pvp, even with people constrained to a point). You also have to consider what counters exist too Ranged damage is either aoe (which can be easily walked out of), projectile (which can be blocked/reflected in many different encounters), or beam (which usually has lower dps than the other two). These things must be considered in balance overall, and will certainly lead to certain types of damage/builds being higher depending on the situation.

2. Exposure to get skills off: There is more to the "risk of getting killed" vs "reward of killing" equation than just how close your enemy is. Take the example of meteor shower, for example. You have to stand still for a good 2-3 seconds while you wave your arm in the air, tanking whatever hits you (or interrupt your cast and get basically no payoff) just to get meteors to start falling. This exposes you quite a bit, and takes very careful consideration to decide when to time this. On the flip side, take a look at something like many melee thief builds, where they can be in evade frames like 80% of the time. Is this REALLY higher risk than a weapon whose only defense is staying at range?

3. You have to consider the WHOLE kit/build when wanting to compare. Should melee builds have higher DPS when they are also on a class that has lots of melee defenses (invulns, blocks, evades, damage reduction, etc)? Just being melee doesn't necessarily mean higher risk in today's game, where things like chrono are some of the safest builds out there. This is true just outside of the game too. It is easy to say "man, it isn't fair that a doctor makes so much money! I want his/her life!" It is much harder to also pay the cost of years of medical school, $100-300K student loan debt, years working 80 hours for low pay in residency (during the prime years of your healthy young life), constant pressure, etc. You can't just pick and choose the part you like without also recognizing the costs your don't.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:The recent Meteor Shower bug and Deadeye changes made me think about this a lot. I think it's really backwards that some of the highest damage in the game comes from ranged classes. In general, it is FAR harder to land a skill with tiny melee range than it is to dump a huge 1200 range AoE. Why is GW2 so backwards in this regard, and do you agree that melee should (in general) outdamage ranged due to requiring more skill and accuracy to land melee skills?

What...SB rangers that can rapid fire for 40-60k is bad..at 1500 ( or more range if you know the trick) ?Auto attacks at 1500-2000 range for 4500-8k is bad?

[Balsa.3951]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Balsa.3951 said:

@zealex.9410 said:If you are ranged tho in ove u lose out on them sweet boons.

which boons u miss when u go solo?

In solo it doesnt mater what others or other builds do its solo, you play what you like.

OP ask about that range should not be more dmg than melee. I just kinda was thinking we stay on topic

Same, whcih isnt true for a part of the game. Staying in topic always.

ok lets say a ranged in one group than u dont miss out on those sweet boons..... So the Boon part Melee vs Ranged is not well working.

I say Ranged should never out dps melee except ranged builds forcing u to loose a lot of defensive stats to work. Risk vs Reward.

ps at least for my main class Guardian I feel Melee is higher dps than ranged.

[Blude.6812]

I know if I was in a battle I would much rather face a swiss army knife that a direct hit from artillery. Boosting the ranged damage would be be much better than nerfing because of some complaint.

[Ephemiel.5694]

In every game, especially in RPG, melee should always outdamage ranged since melee literally has to be in within range of the enemy's attacks.

[Chasind.3128]

well, ele and thief are the most squish out of all of the classes, should they not do high damage?but ele was nerfed to oblivion with its only good range being destroyed because people didnt want to dodge a meteor shower