Broken Deadeye

[bq pd.2148]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

I honestly think it's unfair that Thief can remove revealed more than other sources can apply it, reveal does need an ammo system especially if the counter runs off an ammo system

.

Thanks, will try and give this a shot after a few pvP matches, wasn't sure about Trickery anymore either as the only benefit I could see from that traitline was the daze and boon rip... Was thinking of the raw power set up from the traits and signet might be a good option again, 200 raw power from the quickness trait in DE, 200 raw power from being revealed so every DJ shot and the signet for another 540 power so 940 power boost before stacking might for another potential 625 power.. In total being 1565 extra raw damage.

again this is not an 1 vs 1 mode, each reveal has a lower cooldown than 1 shadow meld and i can be revealed by several players, yet i cannot remove revealed from allies. you can quickly run out of shadow melds due to reveals, yet when using your last charge of it you can then retreat till you are prepared for a reveal again. wich can make it appear like you allways have more.

it was an opinion and I thought that was clear when I started off by saying "

I honestly think

"... And while I played thief, it was a 1 v 1-4 because of the fights I chose and rarely any of them were ranger let alone packing Sic em... But that's why I came to my opinion.i know it was an opinion, i can still disagree with it :3.

[sephiroth.4217]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:thanks to this thread I started using DE again...

Im running trickery and shadow arts... This is broken. The damage isnt all that high but if I play like a persistant mosquito I'll eventually get the kill... So far my only deaths have come from greed and being an egotistical maniac by fighting Reapers in doorways to pang...

Shadowmeld is broken too... Rangers have Sic Em but I have 2 stacks of removing revealed while he only has 1 source of revealed... I should have 1 stack and the ranger should have 2 stacks, not the current set up.

the funniest thing about my set up is that when I do go down I use my shadow refuge and self rez of the stealth traits, so I just reset the fight and kill the one who downed me.

If anyone would like to help me improve on my damage, im all ears.

I play DE as well and decided to bring in my warrior to see how to counter. Success goes up considerably with On my Mark due to the range (1200) and the Ammo function wherein one gets two uses. My personal opinion is that a few more of the reveal skills should have the ammo system.

As to improving damage cs/sa/de does all the damge you need. I really do not think trickery adds enough and it not like you INI starved in the build.

I honestly think it's unfair that Thief can remove revealed more than other sources can apply it, reveal does need an ammo system especially if the counter runs off an ammo system

.

Thanks, will try and give this a shot after a few pvP matches, wasn't sure about Trickery anymore either as the only benefit I could see from that traitline was the daze and boon rip... Was thinking of the raw power set up from the traits and signet might be a good option again, 200 raw power from the quickness trait in DE, 200 raw power from being revealed so every DJ shot and the signet for another 540 power so 940 power boost before stacking might for another potential 625 power.. In total being 1565 extra raw damage.

again this is not an 1 vs 1 mode, each reveal has a lower cooldown than 1 shadow meld and i can be revealed by several players, yet i cannot remove revealed from allies. you can quickly run out of shadow melds due to reveals, yet when using your last charge of it you can then retreat till you are prepared for a reveal again. wich can make it appear like you allways have more.

it was an opinion and I thought that was clear when I started off by saying "

I honestly think

"... And while I played thief, it was a 1 v 1-4 because of the fights I chose and rarely any of them were ranger let alone packing Sic em... But that's why I came to my opinion.i know it was an opinion, i can still disagree with it :3.

As everyone on the internet does :lol:

[Aeolus.3615]

@Junkpile.7439 said:Yes game is broken and deadeye is just one problem (probably most annoying one). Anet could give old specs at least some kind of tools to put up the fight. Funny how they add new boon and for some reason old specs don't have any access to this boon. Anyways new specializations should add new alternative way play class not upgrade old all possible ways. :disappointed:

My only issue is the unshockable (when u have to use the 2 dodges and aplys a dome but all the shots will passtrough .....):\ its like u can doodge the spam but then ur dead.....anyway,. even trough absorption or block.... or when i put a wall of reflect and then get several hits in few seconds trough WoR... :|I always felt unblockables it ment to be abused and carry on ofense even when im using and unblcokable to counter a block or reflect or absortion domes... :\ ~

Good thing that we have skill that will track and keep damage thief when its stealthed... gw2 gimmicks what else????...

[Dawdler.8521]

@Aeolus.3615 said:My only issue is the unshockableUnblockable. Unshockable is when you are in a faraday cage.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

you need reflects/ projectile defense man. sure the deaths judgement death ray will get ya but it wont hit nearly as hard without high malice, plus without three round burst and some autos to mop it all up rifle teef isn't much of a threat.

its still a lame build that is way too much but yeah its all about that projectile defense.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:My only issue is the unshockableUnblockable. Unshockable is when you are in a faraday cage.

lol... dang corrector.

[XenesisII.1540]

Deadeyes are fine, just bring a gank group with you.'tis all

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

come wvw change i will have an army, a guild...of deadeyes using ghillie snipe. condi and power variants included. you have to burst while not invis / reflect non DJ. but if they build full malice just by remarking you you are screwed.

[Weezy.9570]

I may or may not be the DE OP was talking about. (I'm on FA.) I run a broken DE build that can even take out the tankiest FB. (I hit 20ks each deaths judgement.) The way I drop people would surprise you. It takes great timing and awareness to pull it off. The ways I die are from heavy cc or reveals like sic em. My biggest targets are rangers. The class I fear the most is almost any Engi. Their reveal trait is beyond hard to counter. So if you want to kill a DE, reveals and cc. As for other classes. Ele can use stone heart. Wars use double endure. Guards just eat it. Mes can 1 shot if shatter, if it's condi... It's going to die. Necros are iffy. If they are power reaper, I just get melted. Rangers if they catch me outta stealth, only way I die is if they see me 1st and get their rapid fire. Rev can be hit or miss. As for other thieves, they have no chance except if they run the evade trait to prevent being 1 shot. Good luck.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732" said:I may or may not be the DE OP was talking about. (I'm on FA.) I run a broken DE build that can even take out the tankiest FB. (I hit 20ks each deaths judgement.) The way I drop people would surprise you. It takes great timing and awareness to pull it off. The ways I die are from heavy cc or reveals like sic em. My biggest targets are rangers. The class I fear the most is almost any Engi. Their reveal trait is beyond hard to counter. So if you want to kill a DE, reveals and cc. As for other classes. Ele can use stone heart. Wars use double endure. Guards just eat it. Mes can 1 shot if shatter, if it's condi... It's going to die. Necros are iffy. If they are power reaper, I just get melted. Rangers if they catch me outta stealth, only way I die is if they see me 1st and get their rapid fire. Rev can be hit or miss. As for other thieves, they have no chance except if they run the evade trait to prevent being 1 shot. Good luck.

I solo roam on my Ranger, and since 2 patches ago, my survival rate against DE is 0%. AS in, I've lost 100% of my encounters with them. In each of those encounters, I've been attacked from stealth, average DJ hits me from 16-19K, and then double taps to downed state. For added salt, I'm then stomped from stealth. I run mix of zerk/marauder with durability runes.

Now I know I'm not the best WvW player, but I'm not a complete noob either. I'm sure everyone who reads this will right away start typing "git gud". So how do I do that when I don't even have a chance to fight? Completely serious here. 100% of my encounters with DE I was attacked from stealth and essentially downed within a few seconds, before I even had a chance to target the other player.

Mesmers are broken 1v1, but at least you have a chance to fight them, improve your skills. How am I ever supposed to defeat a DE if I never learn to fight them because I never have a chance to actually fight them?

WvW is supposed to be fun for both sides. I can't see how anyone can say being killed essentially from stealth (and then stomped from stealth!) could ever be considered fun.

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess, because next balance patch I'm sure DE will be given the scourge-treatment.

[Weezy.9570]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732" said:I may or may not be the DE OP was talking about. (I'm on FA.) I run a broken DE build that can even take out the tankiest FB. (I hit 20ks each deaths judgement.) The way I drop people would surprise you. It takes great timing and awareness to pull it off. The ways I die are from heavy cc or reveals like sic em. My biggest targets are rangers. The class I fear the most is almost any Engi. Their reveal trait is beyond hard to counter. So if you want to kill a DE, reveals and cc. As for other classes. Ele can use stone heart. Wars use double endure. Guards just eat it. Mes can 1 shot if shatter, if it's condi... It's going to die. Necros are iffy. If they are power reaper, I just get melted. Rangers if they catch me outta stealth, only way I die is if they see me 1st and get their rapid fire. Rev can be hit or miss. As for other thieves, they have no chance except if they run the evade trait to prevent being 1 shot. Good luck.

I solo roam on my Ranger, and since 2 patches ago, my survival rate against DE is 0%. AS in, I've lost 100% of my encounters with them. In each of those encounters, I've been attacked from stealth, average DJ hits me from 16-19K, and then double taps to downed state. For added salt, I'm then stomped from stealth. I run mix of zerk/marauder with durability runes.

Now I know I'm not the best WvW player, but I'm not a complete noob either. I'm sure everyone who reads this will right away start typing "git gud". So how do I do that when I don't even have a chance to fight? Completely serious here. 100% of my encounters with DE I was attacked from stealth and essentially downed within a few seconds, before I even had a chance to target the other player.

Mesmers are broken 1v1, but at least you have a chance to fight them, improve your skills. How am I ever supposed to defeat a DE if I never learn to fight them because I never have a chance to actually fight them?

WvW is supposed to be fun for both sides. I can't see how anyone can say being killed essentially from stealth (and then stomped from stealth!) could ever be considered fun.

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess, because next balance patch I'm sure DE will be given the scourge-treatment.

Then they'll buff DD and make the problem even worse. You know, like how they buffed power reaper.

It legit is rough. As for you playing ranger you can run auto sig and the normal invuln sig. Also to make this easy, you can outrun a DE. Anything mobile is hard for them. Druid staff 3 away... And your pretty much on the cusp of my range. Then just pet stealth from there and your gone. Or run sic em and use the absolutely broken double attack trait or elite from Soulbeast longbow 2. If you play vanilla ranger I got 99 problems, and that spec ain't one. :)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think the two worst things about DE is the stealth on dodge and the might stack generation. I don't play wvw, but in pvp im seeing these DE clowns running around with 25 stacks. really? highest burst damage plus highest survivability class running around with 25 stacks? I don't even know what to think anymore. the three round burst damage is an even greater threat then DJ imo but without it DE would not be doing any damage. its still too strong tho so idk.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732" said:I may or may not be the DE OP was talking about. (I'm on FA.) I run a broken DE build that can even take out the tankiest FB. (I hit 20ks each deaths judgement.) The way I drop people would surprise you. It takes great timing and awareness to pull it off. The ways I die are from heavy cc or reveals like sic em. My biggest targets are rangers. The class I fear the most is almost any Engi. Their reveal trait is beyond hard to counter. So if you want to kill a DE, reveals and cc. As for other classes. Ele can use stone heart. Wars use double endure. Guards just eat it. Mes can 1 shot if shatter, if it's condi... It's going to die. Necros are iffy. If they are power reaper, I just get melted. Rangers if they catch me outta stealth, only way I die is if they see me 1st and get their rapid fire. Rev can be hit or miss. As for other thieves, they have no chance except if they run the evade trait to prevent being 1 shot. Good luck.

I solo roam on my Ranger, and since 2 patches ago, my survival rate against DE is 0%. AS in, I've lost 100% of my encounters with them. In each of those encounters, I've been attacked from stealth, average DJ hits me from 16-19K, and then double taps to downed state. For added salt, I'm then stomped from stealth. I run mix of zerk/marauder with durability runes.

Now I know I'm not the best WvW player, but I'm not a complete noob either. I'm sure everyone who reads this will right away start typing "git gud". So how do I do that when I don't even have a chance to fight? Completely serious here. 100% of my encounters with DE I was attacked from stealth and essentially downed within a few seconds, before I even had a chance to target the other player.

Mesmers are broken 1v1, but at least you have a chance to fight them, improve your skills. How am I ever supposed to defeat a DE if I never learn to fight them because I never have a chance to actually fight them?

WvW is supposed to be fun for both sides. I can't see how anyone can say being killed essentially from stealth (and then stomped from stealth!) could ever be considered fun.

Enjoy it while it lasts I guess, because next balance patch I'm sure DE will be given the scourge-treatment.

Stomp from stealth to add "salt",are you serious now ? Stomp from stealth is a Safe stomp,so you wont target or cc him while he's stomping.Besides youre a ranger,pew pew follows through stealth,ontop of that you have a reveal which fucks them over pretty good aswell. How about you improve your "skills" by dueling some of them ? Either in wvw or Gh arena or even pvp.

[Luranni.9470]

I don't think Anet even designed the meme eye, they lifted it from an old forum post.. don't expect them to have any actual ideas about how to balance it (or anything else for that matter) :D

[Aeolus.3615]

It is balanced.The issue is how unblockables work on this game, since theres no counter to unblockables out of stealth...

I still die to holosmiths uptime of unblockables w/o mines (it still bites me how players do this) deadeyes are on the same boat...unblocables spam and i cant find a decent build that shows me how do they do that, or 1 hit 25k+ KO on stealth while beign unblockable as well.

IF Anet made unblockables not carry players would be a great thing and those classes only need that to become balanced... damage is fine.

[Turk.5460]

@"Aeolus.3615" said:It is balanced.The issue is how unblockables work on this game, since theres no counter to unblockables out of stealth...

I still die to holosmiths uptime of unblockables w/o mines (it still bites me how players do this) deadeyes are on the same boat...unblocables spam and i cant find a decent build that shows me how do they do that, or 1 hit 25k+ KO on stealth while beign unblockable as well.

IF Anet made unblockables not carry players would be a great thing and those classes only need that to become balanced... damage is fine.

Deadeye has 1 unblockable, Death's Judgement. There's not such thing as a 25k+ 1 hit unblockable KO, and even more impossible is "from stealth." Death's Judgement reveals the user before the cast timer even begins, roots them in place, plays the loudest audio cue and brightest visual cue in the game, and is often obstructed by invisible clutter. Also, in order for Death's Judgement to even approach that damage, malice stacks have to be built up by attacking - which debunks the "1HKO."

I main DE and I know that it is overtuned, but I lobby for the nerf of Malicious Backstab, and access to stealth. You have been told numerous times how DJ is not overpowered due to its trade-offs, yet you seem to refuse facts and continue to post hyperbole and flat out incorrect information. Stop it.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:It is balanced.The issue is how unblockables work on this game, since theres no counter to unblockables out of stealth...

I still die to holosmiths uptime of unblockables w/o mines (it still bites me how players do this) deadeyes are on the same boat...unblocables spam and i cant find a decent build that shows me how do they do that, or 1 hit 25k+ KO on stealth while beign unblockable as well.

IF Anet made unblockables not carry players would be a great thing and those classes only need that to become balanced... damage is fine.

Deadeye has 1 unblockable, Death's Judgement. There's not such thing as a 25k+

1 hit unblockable KO

, and even more impossible is "from stealth." Death's Judgement reveals the user

before the cast timer even begins

, roots them in place, plays the

loudest audio cue

and

brightest visual cue

in the game, and is often obstructed by invisible clutter. Also, in order for Death's Judgement to even approach that damage, malice stacks have to be built up by attacking - which debunks the "1HKO."

I main DE and I know that it is overtuned, but I lobby for the nerf of Malicious Backstab, and access to stealth. You have been told numerous times how DJ is not overpowered due to its trade-offs, yet you seem to refuse facts and continue to post hyperbole and flat out incorrect information. Stop it.

Tell that to the guy that one shooted me with 21k(close to it) health trough a absortion dome, out of stealth.it was a 1hit cause i managed to gain health back(burned dodges,evades,blocks to survive and get closer to the DD) to arorund close to 100%, had arround 19khp out of 21khp at that time), i pulled my absortion dome and RIP sicne i felt that range burst comming, and was just one bulled animation.It was being a good fight both ways, until he pulled that card.

Is the Death's Judgment animation some more red'ish and heavy looking bullet sprite???(I dont have PoF, adaptation comes from figthing itself ).

[zinkz.7045]

@Ubi.4136 said:I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part...

It would only seem an oversight if you are under the mistaken impression that WvW balance is of any genuine concern to Anet, there are no stealth traps in PvP and obviously it is irrelevant in PvE raids, so there is basically no balance issue for Anet.

[coro.3176]

• Anet: Y'know, perma-stealth is frustrating to play against. Let's give players a way to counter it with reveal
• Also Anet: Oh, deadeye dies if they're revealed. Let's give them a way to cancel reveal
• Soon: Oh, perma-stealth deadeye is still frustrating to play against. Let's give players a way to super-reveal deadeyes so they can't cancel it.
• Later: Oh, deadeye dies if they're super-revealed. Let's give them a way to cancel super-reveal.
• Soon: ... super-mega-ulitimate-reveal

Typical arms race.

I think we can all agree the current perma-stealth deadeye is bad gameplay and isn't very interactive for the person on the receiving end. There's no point in even trying to reveal the deadeye because they'll just cancel it. The best play is to not bother trying to fight and just leave or get to the safety of a zerg or tower. That's no fun. There needs to be some back and forth between the deadeye and their target.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part...

It would only seem an oversight if you are under the mistaken impression that WvW balance is of any genuine concern to Anet, there are no stealth traps in PvP and obviously it is irrelevant in PvE raids, so there is basically no balance issue for Anet.

Yeah, the stealth traps were added to help curb the permanent hiding inside structures. Or, were conveniently added while that was a huge topic of conversation on the old forum (maybe the timing was just a coincidence). Yet, we are back to that again. They made it so that dagger 5 on walls no longer worked. People found a way around that. Stealth traps and even the marked when the structure flipped were added to prevent people from hiding inside forever. Deadeye has brought this problem back.

[Turk.5460]

@Ubi.4136 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:I get the point of the elite, and removing revealed, yet it runs contrary to the whole point of the reveal trap. It seems like more of an oversight on Anet's part...

It would only seem an oversight if you are under the mistaken impression that WvW balance is of any genuine concern to Anet, there are no stealth traps in PvP and obviously it is irrelevant in PvE raids, so there is basically no balance issue for Anet.

Yeah, the stealth traps were added to help curb the permanent hiding inside structures. Or, were conveniently added while that was a huge topic of conversation on the old forum (maybe the timing was just a coincidence). Yet, we are back to that again. They made it so that dagger 5 on walls no longer worked. People found a way around that. Stealth traps and even the marked when the structure flipped were added to prevent people from hiding inside forever. Deadeye has brought this problem back.

What's the problem though? Certainly not contesting the keep as that doesn't require the enemy to be inside the keep.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:come wvw change i will have an army, a guild...of deadeyes using ghillie snipe. condi and power variants included. you have to burst while not invis / reflect non DJ. but if they build full malice just by remarking you you are screwed.

I remember you advertising back when I was on SoS a while back. I have always thought it would be fun to run a stealth group to fuck with zergs, but am not sure how effective it could be. Are you still active?

[Player.9621]

i have one that i try not to play because it is rediculous and pretty much what op saysbut i do use it sometimes and its just a cheap shot ganker, i feel like a prick when i kill peopletotal glass tho, i get 3 easy invis to vansih but if thats all gone im dead in the water

i think it needs a single reveal to whoever you hit and nobody else would be ok so if you dont actually one shot them they will be able to retalliate

[mortrialus.3062]

@"Aeolus.3615" said:

It is balanced.The issue is how unblockables work on this game, since theres no counter to unblockables out of stealth...

I still die to holosmiths uptime of unblockables w/o mines (it still bites me how players do this) deadeyes are on the same boat...unblocables spam and i cant find a decent build that shows me how do they do that, or 1 hit 25k+ KO on stealth while beign unblockable as well.

IF Anet made unblockables not carry players would be a great thing and those classes only need that to become balanced... damage is fine.

Been playing this build the past few days. It's kind of out of this world powerful. Just permanently stealth and one shot people with backstab.

[schokelmei.8271]

Everyone should play it. And especially use it vs. the devs on the "community wvw "they are doing. Show them how broken the meta is by ganking them inside their raids.