Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Merc The Forgotten.5610]

Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

[Dante.1763]

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

You are wrong about people buying all the skins, thats for sure.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Alek Seven.2374" said:Sorry if its in French, this is what I have right at the moment i am writhing this :

PS : I'm on NA.

that..is not at all okay by any means...a grand total of four people can finish the armor with that many listed O_O

That is a snapshot.. there will be gains throughout the day and falls.. that I have never denied, the issue is the falls are greater than the gains over the same period, meaning demand is still insanely high and supply isn't fast enough or large enough to stem this issue until it reaches a point where demand falls off.. likely through lack of interest rather than enough players completing. The longer players are left hanging on this, the easier it becomes to move onto other meaningful things in game. ANET can't allow the game to sit still for too long they need to keep players busy and spending.Those defending this and denying the issue is real are either ill informed or protecting their own interests in an effort to keep it rolling on for as long as possible, ANET included.Looking at how the TP stock is rolling is the only data we can use and that clearly shows there is an issue and both in supply and of course by default the price... the next issue will be time, because as soon a stock on the tp depletes its going to have to rely on player stashes to keep feeding it. If there were enough sigils able to be generated individually in game then TP stocks would not be depleting at the rate they are and certainly not in such a short time frame after release.There is an undeniable issue.. but that is the intentional almost immediate effect that was wanted from this collection imo, so I wouldn't hold my breath that ANET will induce some magic fix to shift the stock any time soon, if at all, because this is a finite collection with no other use for that sigil once the storm subsides.. it's more about how long they can keep the storm alive now.

[eldrjth.7384]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

Going by those numbers I see a low conversion rate between those who finish part 1 then continue on to complete part 2. It also means atleast 338325 sigils are still required for the remainder of players to complete part II (this only counts players registered with gw2efficiency and Im not one of those players but ive completed the collection). The major turnoff is the 250g cost of the sigils, which has prob deterred a majority of casual players altogether from even attempting to complete it. If the cost barrier was removed im sure the completion rate would be far higher.

[Holykitten.3064]

@eldrjth.7384 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

Going by those numbers I see a

low

conversion rate between those who finish part 1 then continue on to complete part 2. It also means atleast 338325 sigils are still required for the remainder of players to complete part II (this only counts players registered with gw2efficiency and Im not one of those players but ive completed the collection). The major turnoff is the 250g cost of the sigils, which has prob deterred a majority of casual players altogether from even attempting to complete it. If the cost barrier was removed im sure the completion rate would be far higher.

It’s only been out for 10 days. I’d expect lower %’s in early days regardless. But, in those 10 days, players that have unlocked the ability to start CoS:Requiem, 10% has completed it. That’s not low in 10 days. That’s pretty normal progression imo.It looks bad because before last Tuesday, Sigil of Nullification was vendor trash, and DID get vendored more than sold on the TP. Now that there’s demand for it, no one is vendoring this Sigil. It’s a slow game but the supply will roll in eventually and staggered.We don’t know the statistics of this Sigil being forged / salvaged from Exotic drops, I can 100% guarantee that people who do get these drops are either saving them for their own use or selling one at a time on the TP.

[Swagger.1459]

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

Are you currently blocked from purchasing mount adoption licenses in Belgium?

[Merc The Forgotten.5610]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

You are wrong about people buying all the skins, thats for sure.

Much ppl buy all the skins as a Belgian player you pay 1200gems for each skin thats way too much.Also the 1200gems for a recycle skin is way too much.The system needs to be rethinked or they gonna leave us out? Or they are gonna milk us even harder now because we finally got the RNG on gemstore items to go away in a way as punishment?

[Merc The Forgotten.5610]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

Are you currently blocked from purchasing mount adoption licenses in Belgium?

Yes we need to pay 1200gems afther the sale is gone to buy a recycle skin.Very expensive if you want all the skins. so lets say 21x1200gems now that beetle joined the mounts and just like Istan the mount license provides 3 skins for each mount.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:The problem of price is the intended side effect of this collection and players will be upset by the price, but also how long it is going to realistically take many to complete.. because there just isn't enough supply or enough supply potential to fix either of the issues.ANET risk players loosing interest in this faster than they hoped because aside from the steer to buy gems and convert to gold to pay the grossly inflated prices.. they wont be able to buy the sigils anyway when supplies hit rock bottom and rely on trickle feeding through in game.Less than 1k left in the system, small amounts coming in daily so far... even if we said there had been 10k sigils pass through the TP since the collection launched (which I am fairly sure there hasn't) that still only accounts for around 400 ish players completing sets plus some that had stashes already or bought stock in the first few hours the recipe became known .. now that initial stock that was in the system prior to the content release has been depleted we are left to hope more players have been sat on stashes or we all get really lucky in the toilet, otherwise it going to be a very slow, very expensive collection.

Can you even prove that it’s a small amount that’s being generated each day? No. You cannot.

Oh c'mon, really!You don't need to be a rocket scientist to determine that supply is extremely slow and what little there is coming in, is outstripped by the demand.. unless your seeing some upward trend in supply that no one else is.. of course players could be sat on them hoping for a further significant price hike.. but I think we both know that dog has now had its day , only small spikes up and downs will likely be seen now. The price we are seeing now is where it is pretty much going to be for some time to come unless there is a drastic drop off in demand through loss of interest.. very possible imo.If your still not convinced try using some maths to determine the mystic forge odds of minor sigil to major sigil conversion, then major sigil to superior sigil of nullification... good luck with those numbers. Then lets ask ANET how many players are buying up hundreds of 2k gem lvl up tokens to feed all our sigil habits... that could be an interesting number for sure. Then take a look at the TP history on the sigil 1 day prior to release and where we are now.. if the supply was anything more than lousy we would not be at 900 sigils now.. it has barely got over 3k sigils early on and its dropped ever since... so how can you determine anything other than supply in is in anyway greater than a hundreds per day, rather than the thousands per day required... please counter with something other than.."you don't know, I don't know"..

EDIT - Apologies 840 Sigils now not 900, whoops 801 now.....

That doesn't measure how many sigils are made or consumed daily ... The fact is that you can't measure the 'flow' of mats with the information we have. It appears to me that the only requirement to determine that supply is extremely slow and what little there is coming in, is outstripped by the demand is degree in garbage science. Anyone with a real background in science would know that simply measuring volumes doesn't indicate rates of change.

Here is a scenario ... I have 300 at the beginning of the day ... I end up with 400 at the end of the day ... what is the number coming in and out that day?

here is a hint ... how many combinations of (QTY IN, QTY OUT) numbers can result in that scenario?

The bottomline is that you or me or anyone else does NOT have the data to conclude there is something wrong here. Again, even if there is something wrong, we know Anet will do something about it, like they have done with MC's. This isn't a price OR a volume driven decision. It's based on supply and demand, i.e., how many flow in and how many flow out. WE can't measure that with the data we have unless someone with a non-garbage science degree starts thinking about how to do it (it can be done, but it's nothing like what most people are even capable of imagining)

Of course it doesn't measure how many are exactly coming in.. only ANET have the figure but there is no logical way it can be anything substantial because supply is almost depleted already... you can argue that with science all you like but that fact is undeniable.There is no way to craft the sigil there is only luck and a single 1 sigil per lvl 64 reward to place into your scientific equations otherwise, if there were then maybe your opinion that there is potentially more supply coming into play than what we can see at any given point through the day would have some real mileage... yes there is some, but not enough.

Of course.. I forgot about the huge volume of players burning through all their tomes and buying up those 2k gem lvl up tokens 25+ times to ease their own pain and that of others ... yeah I think that's going to make a substantial dent in this issue, my bad..... in all seriousness there will be some that do that I know, but hardly enough to make even a small dent.

So, there in lies your problem, there is no viable, reliable supply route to market it is reliant on luck, so again try arguing that fact with science all you like, but luck is fickle and it only takes a few outliers on the wrong side to throw your science right out the window and in this case there will be many.If there was any substantial supply being generated, it is not being supplanted into the market, at least not in the numbers to make a difference to the gap in supply vs demand and that gap in unlikely to shorten anytime soon unless, like I have said players simply lose interest in it all together or a sudden pouring in of sigils from some flippers occurs (why would they do that.. they wouldn't) or everyone gets really lucky in the game of chance....At the rate that stock that was already accounted for in the system and all resupply that has occurred thus far, is being depleted, its more than possible that by tomorrow very few players will even be able to buy enough sigils to complete the armour set even if they were prepared to bite the bullet and pay the inflated prices.. unless your still confident there is some magic secret way of resupplying the market in the kind of numbers it needs and hope demand has fallen significantly for such a replenishment to have an effect.

Nah, sorry.. you can throw science at this as much as you like but the simple fact is there is no viable means to supply the market in the kinds of numbers needed, which is why I stand by the notion that the market is only being bolstered in the hundreds per day not the many thousands that it requires to ease the deficiency in costs and time for many players that were not able to take advantage of the price and/or the initial stocks already in the market at release... and that is why this is such a grossly unfair collection methodology ANET hase introduced.. its designed to utilise power trading and supply deprivation to induce a cashgrab via gem sales for as long as possible imo, but that comes with a risk if enough players loose interest fast in this, which would not surprise me in the slightest.

The 10K wasn't a serious number. You do not know how many sigils are sold daily. You're only comparing data between two points of time when it was collected. You do not see what occurred during that time and what occurred could have been a zero-sum exchange. You are still fixated on that current supply is somehow the sole indicator on how many sigils are exchanged. It's not.

No I am not, I am using what data we do have and our own ability to see how the TP is fairing over a period of time. None of us have numbers, but what we do know is that the sigil is predominantly based around luck not guaranteed supply.. aside from that the players are dependant on players having stashes.. which undoubtedly there will be.. like I said take a stab at some conservative maths and estimate just how many sigils the game needs . We are in the first week and demand is high, what stock there was prior has now gone or is being trickle fed, we are now reliant on luck and players secret stashes or tp flipper that bought up stock stock asap.No one denies there are sigils being generated or that we do not know in what qty. All we do know is that demand is far outstripping supply in game and will likely be doing that for a whiles yet because were close to the point that the TP is no longer able to constantly supply any one even if we want to bite the bullet and pay the prices we now have... and that is not a good position to be in, because once that stock that's laying around gathering dust gets depleted.. we are solely reliant on luck and rerolls.

[Dante.1763]

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

Are you currently blocked from purchasing mount adoption licenses in Belgium?

Yes we need to pay 1200gems afther the sale is gone to buy a recycle skin.Very expensive if you want all the skins. so lets say 21x1200gems now that beetle joined the mounts and just like Istan the mount license provides 3 skins for each mount.

Thats the price of the guaranteed mount skin, which means due to your countries laws the "bundle price" 5 random skins for 2000 gems is not available to you, and im fairly certain anet is going to change the price of the guaranteed license for that.

[Odinens.5920]

@eldrjth.7384 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

If the cost barrier was removed im sure the completion rate would be far higher.

Sure is for me. Staying stuck on the boots(?), or whatever the 1st piece is that requires the sigils, cuz I'm not shelling out 250g, or whatever the cost is now, for a set of exotic gear that'll only be used for skins......nope. I was excited for this when the episode launched, but after seeing what it was gonna cost to actually get the skins, and finish the collection, I was pretty turned off. Now, instead of working towards accomplishing new episode stuff, I could care less.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@eldrjth.7384 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

Going by those numbers I see a

low

conversion rate between those who finish part 1 then continue on to complete part 2. It also means at least 338325 sigils are still required for the remainder of players to complete part II (this only counts players registered with gw2efficiency and Im not one of those players but ive completed the collection). The major turnoff is the 250g cost of the sigils, which has prob deterred a majority of casual players altogether from even attempting to complete it. If the cost barrier was removed im sure the completion rate would be far higher.

But that doesn't help ANET though, and like it or not ANET do have to find ways to make money from everything they do. I personally don't have an issue with that, as a business owner its imperative. But there are fairer ways to of done this and still open up those revenue streams.

Griffon was an example of this.. sure when it came in the cost was a barrier to some and everyone can never be happy... but it levelled the playing field from a cost perspective and it provided players with choices on how best to accumulate the gold and the time it would take.. there were/are avenues in which players could do that.. silverwastes, world boss, dungeons, fractals, metas, and of course now we have istan, bitterfrsot etc.

Ther in lies the issue with the sigil it doesn't matter if we can farm the gold, farm the mistonium etc.. there was always going to be a point (quicker than I thought), where even having the gold to buy the sigils becomes irrelevant because there isn't enough supply sitting waiting to be sold for too many at once.. we now have to look towards major sigils to flush through the toilet and prey we get lots of exotic weapons with the Sup. Nulification sigils dropping in our rewards and that we get a good harvest from salvages if not using BL kits.Aside from that pump some gems into your account and buy lvl up tokens from the store and keep rerolling to lvl 64 25 times.... :)

[Zaoda.1653]

There are currently 40 superior sigils of nullification on the trading post. Officially enough for ONE person in guild wars 2 to get full requiem armour.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

Again whilst that serves the players purpose, it doesn't really generate revenue, there needs to be some give and take to keep the wheels turning and the players keen, just not at the extremes we've seen with this collection or by killing opportunities for ANET to profit from their labors

[Pifil.5193]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

Again whilst that serves the players purpose, it doesn't really generate revenue, there needs to be some give and take to keep the wheels turning and the players keen, just not at the extremes we've seen with this collection or by killing opportunities for ANET to profit from their labors

Every single action doesn't need to directly generate revenue, if it did then we'd never see balance patches, bug fixes or free content of any sort.

They balance the game, fix bugs and add content all the time so that people keep playing because an active player is someone who may buy something on the gemstore.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

Again whilst that serves the players purpose, it doesn't really generate revenue, there needs to be some give and take to keep the wheels turning and the players keen, just not at the extremes we've seen with this collection or by killing opportunities for ANET to profit from their labors

Man, they have gem store skins for that, do you see how many mount skins there are around? $20 each. ANet is rolling in it and honestly, the least they could do it provide a decent skin as part of a collection that wasn't a pile of steaming dolyak dung to complete.

It seems such an arbitrary choice to make, that sigil, when it could literally have been anything else that would be somewhat obtainable in the short term for a majority of players. If time-gating was the reason they could have done it any of the existing ways, if removing TP junk was the reason they could have made it any of the thousands of items that exist that have no value and which there are millions listed on the TP. If it was purely to annoy people and give a select few the opportunity to make tens of thousands of gold, well they achieved that.

[Gop.8713]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

That's actually a pretty good solution, esp if the sigils acquired via the alternate method were account bound . . .

Sigil is up to 19g today btw. With one listed at 1282.02.00, if anyone can spot me two silver . . .

[Ayrilana.1396]

I think someone is purposely eating the cost and buying them up to prove a point

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Simple solution;Add an entry to Miyani's Tome of Knowledge Tab that accepts Tomes of Knowledge in exchange for Sigils of Nullification.Or to the Black Lion Exchange Specialist in the TP (or any NPC really) that accepts ANY sigil in return for the Sigil of Nullification.

Again whilst that serves the players purpose, it doesn't really generate revenue, there needs to be some give and take to keep the wheels turning and the players keen, just not at the extremes we've seen with this collection or by killing opportunities for ANET to profit from their labors

Every single action doesn't need to

directly

generate revenue, if it did then we'd never see balance patches, bug fixes or free content of any sort.

They balance the game, fix bugs and add content all the time so that people

keep

playing because an active player is someone who

may

buy something on the gemstore.

So what's your theory on picking an arbitrary weapon sigil which was nothing but vendor trash and no credible means to feed the playerbase once it become part of the front centre content release... its everything to do with generating revenue, which is fine to a point.Gemstore fluff isn't the only source of income ANET have to rely on to keep the teams gainfully employed, the lights on and the coffee warm.Gemstore is exactly that.. might buy something.. this collection and low supply based predominantly around luck is a pressure steer to buy gems over a period of time, as grossly out of whack it is.. its actually working if the gems to gold rates have been anything to go buy of late :)Personally I thought ANET would of preferred to take larger chunks out of in game wealth with a direct onesize fits all price for the set, whilst still generating gemsales and loosing additional in game wealth via taxes within conversation and TP sales.. I guess this way meant they could generate more revenue over a longer period of time.Either way ANET need to create revenue streams for sure to support the business and find ways of reducing in game wealth... I just think this way was the ugly stick way.

[Gop.8713]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I think someone is purposely eating the cost and buying them up to prove a point

Someone did that with mystic coins once, but since supply there is ample the price dropped back to pre-antics level really quickly . . .

[Kalendraf.9521]

It's more likely that the buyers at this point are just regular players trying to do the collection. From the gw2tp info (https://www.gw2tp.com/item/24572-superior-sigil-of-nullification), you can easily see the sell listing prices (top right list), and as of this post, there is only 1 at 16g, then the next is at 17g99s, and so forth. If just 1 player buys those 2 sigils, the next sell price list is over 18g95s. Thus, actions driving the price up at this point wouldn't be due to price manipulation, but rather this is just the expected outcome of simple supply & demand market forces interacting with the existing list prices of a very scarce resource.

[thehipone.6812]

Anet likely has little choice in this matter, they can't exactly break the law. Call your politicians and tell them not to pass dumb laws.

[Deihnyx.6318]

I don't exactly get what are people so mad about this time.Like, not just a little upset that they can't get their stuff quickly or that they missed out on opportunity to make money, but literally furious because something that's been happening for literally every important update (random demand/supply fluctuation due to added recipe) is now affecting them.

Did these people get the winter's presence the first year? or the nightfury? Not only did it cause high fluctuation in prices, but some stuff was timegated. You had to either farm non stop or spend (way) more than 300GB. For this... you could be leveling up non stop here and there's no timegate.So what happened? Are people no longer able to enjoy the game for the journey, rather than getting everything instantly?

Also stop getting mad about TP mechanics, you'd have been fast as well you would have also bought more in hope to make a gain. This has been the TP game since the beginning. Can't pretend to find out about it now. Just like everything else that has to do with money: Vote with your vallet, don't buy off the hoarders, and they'll lose money. If people are willing to buy, it means the item was worth it.

You'll get it in time, and if you really don't want to tp, then just level up characters. There IS a way to get them.

[kharmin.7683]

Priced as intended. Purchase gems with cash to support future development.

/me shrugs