Crazy idea to introduce open world players to Raids

[maddoctor.2738]

@anduriell.6280 said:Similar mechanics (just adapted to the increased number of players and map size)

Similar mechanics but completely different, in order to adapt to the increased number of players. Can't really have both. There is a version of Vale Guardian in Bloodstone Fen and a version of Slothasor in Ember Bay if you are interested in that kind of thing.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

[Dante.1763]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

Obviously for the challenge, i thought that was the point of raids? Not the loot, but the challenging content.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

Obviously for the challenge, i thought that was the point of raids? Not the loot, but the challenging content.

Challenge and rewards to go with it. Do you think players would do any content in this game, easy or difficult, if they got nothing from it?

[Dante.1763]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

Obviously for the challenge, i thought that was the point of raids? Not the loot, but the challenging content.

Challenge and rewards to go with it. Do you think players would do any content in this game, easy or difficult, if they got nothing from it?

To be honest, given when people where clamoring for raids i do remember people saying they would do them just for the challenge, and honestly outside of that yes i do, people play the game undergeared just to see if they can or to make the game more challenging and they get nothing from it. I do know this though, if PVE had the ability to get Legendary armor without doing raids the amount of people doing raids would fall, because only players who want that skin(which because it was locked behind raids didnt get as much attention as they would have liked and thus they didnt make the other sets have overly unique looks) would continue to do it, which tells me alot about anets willingness to screw over(my opinion on raids) a large portion of the playerbase just to make content that alot of players didnt want needed for something. Unfortunately for me, i want that skin on medium armor, so i have to do raids to get it.

[Westenev.5289]

I'm sure I'd feel elated the first time a Vale Guardian spawned on me while waiting for a party, and I'd even appreciate the joke/challenge (even as a person who dislikes raids). But I imagine that for most people that are discovering how the game works, this would be a little too crazy, and would make them too scared to explore open world maps.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

The argument is see most often is a farce. Its not how hard the content is, its about the exclusivity of the rewards tied to it. And what makes this situation even more snobish is the fact that EVERYONE can benefit from Legendary armor's QOL features, yet there was push back at alternative methods of gaining it because it would lose its "exclusivity" angle. If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

[Hot Boy.7138]

it doesn't have to be a raid boss. I just love the idea of a random attack on a map by a difficult/scary boss. In WoW, i think the map was called Duskwood, in one of the city hubs, a random undead named Stitches used to show up and attack everyone and the NPCs in the city. It was really fun and scary. After reaching max level I could one shot that boss when he attacked, but the thrill I felt at that time I will always remember. So it would be cool to have events like this. Preferrably in cities other than Lion's Arch and Divinity's Reach

[Zaklex.6308]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

[Dante.1763]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

No. the Armor skin is the reward from doing raids, nothing more, which is why the population of people who do raids is so small. Legendary armor should be available to every player in the game, it shouldnt be locked behind the hardest content "because reasons". Locking the unique skin behind raids i am 100% okay with, but a legendary armor that is similiar in style to wvw or pvp armor available in PVE would not be an issue.

And as to "doing the content to get the armor" you can literally BUY runs for the content, and you dont have do it at all, so that argument is pretty laughable.

[Klipso.8653]

You know, if they ever add guild missions they could make instanced boss fights.

Similar to the challenges and bounties, except the locations don't move and the fight takes place in an instance.

Just make it a harder mission to do but introduce players to mechanics seen in inside of raids, put everyone in combat and disable reviving.

You wouldn't get any ascended gear, just the commendations and exotics like normal.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

No. the Armor skin is the reward from doing raids, nothing more, which is why the population of people who do raids is so small. Legendary armor should be available to every player in the game, it shouldnt be locked behind the hardest content "because reasons". Locking the unique skin behind raids i am 100% okay with, but a legendary armor that is similiar in style to wvw or pvp armor available in PVE would not be an issue.

And as to "doing the content to get the armor" you can literally BUY runs for the content, and you dont have do it at all, so that argument is pretty laughable.

Since it's available in WvW and PvP(except for the skin, as you say, which makes it different from those Legenary armors) it's considered available in all 3 aspects of the game, Raids are just a subset of PvE...no need to add it to Open World. Yes, you can buy runs in Raids, which means you are PAYING for the Legendary armor, you are not EARNING it, which is what happens when you do the content as intended, not saying that paid runs aren't intended, they're a perfectly viable way to do the content, if you're that desperate to get those skins that you're willing to pay for them. There's a lot more players that just DO NOT CARE about the Raids, and no amount of incentive is going to make them want to do the content, it was never intended for the masses,

[Ashantara.8731]

@derd.6413 said:b) what anet really needs to do is teach players how to play the game in general (not raid encounters, basic stuff like breakbar) and maybe add a training run tab to lfg (but that will rpobably be spammed with raid sells)

:+1:

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

First of all, there is literally no reason (beyond Anet's trying to shore up a game mode they knew would otherwise fail) that crafting legendary armor should work any different than crafting legendary weapons.

Second of all, if you want to introduce players to raids, make an easier mode (closer to dungeons or mid-tier fractals in difficulty). Anet will never do it, because the raiders will shriek with rage at the prospect of the unwashed masses being able to get "their" rewards, and because they're extremely loathe to admit when they've made a bad decision.

[Dante.1763]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

No. the Armor skin is the reward from doing raids, nothing more, which is why the population of people who do raids is so small. Legendary armor should be available to every player in the game, it shouldnt be locked behind the hardest content "because reasons". Locking the unique skin behind raids i am 100% okay with, but a legendary armor that is similiar in style to wvw or pvp armor available in PVE would not be an issue.

And as to "doing the content to get the armor" you can literally BUY runs for the content, and you dont have do it at all, so that argument is pretty laughable.

Since it's available in WvW and PvP(except for the skin, as you say, which makes it different from those Legenary armors) it's considered available in all 3 aspects of the game, Raids are just a subset of PvE...no need to add it to Open World. Yes, you can buy runs in Raids, which means you are PAYING for the Legendary armor, you are not EARNING it, which is what happens when you do the content as intended, not saying that paid runs aren't intended, they're a perfectly viable way to do the content, if you're that desperate to get those skins that you're willing to pay for them. There's a lot more players that just DO NOT CARE about the Raids, and no amount of incentive is going to make them want to do the content, it was never intended for the masses,

Oh, but you are earning it. You are doing the content that it requires even if you dont know what you are doing. Ive earned all my legendaries that i have now, even though ive had to pay for them because of anets terrible drop rate and luck system and to say otherwise is laughable. Raids are there own game mode, and honestly should be treated as such, as it is the entirety of PVE is now being balanced around them, which is painful for people who do not touch raids at all. Yes theres alot of players that dont care about raids in this game, which is why they should have realized that it would make the larger portion of the playerbase not happy with the inability to get the QOL upgrade that is that armor, and why i will always support a general PVE variant of legendary armor(even if its as lazy as first crafting ascended armor and then upgrading it to a legendary variant using a bunch of the generation two gifts which are very expensive over all.) because the vast majority shouldnt be left out when it comes to being able to obtain something that allows for stat swapping in my opinion, even though i fully support raids having the unique raid armor SKIN of legendary armor, and honestly i would fully support PVP and WvW getting their own unique variants too, but arena net will not do that due to the lack of interest the raid skin got(again due to the lack of overall player interest in raids.)

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:First of all, there is literally no reason (beyond Anet's trying to shore up a game mode they knew would otherwise fail) that crafting legendary armor should work any different than crafting legendary weapons.

This right here, is 100% correct.

[Neutra.6857]

Gorseval, Sabetha, Slothosar, Trio (one of the easiest encounters), Matthias, Escort (again one of the easiest), Xera, Cairn, Mursaat Overseer, Deimos, Soulless Horror, rainbow road (:P), and Dhuum are all dependent on the place the battle takes place. (I am going to leave out wing 6 stuff). That is, the fight won't work without the location for those battles.

The remaining bosses that you might be able to get done are Vale Guardian which is already somewhat in game, KC, since the I guess you could have the statues show up with the Construct, Samarog (which I guess you can have the spears show up like you have the statues with KC). Are about the only bosses I can think of that would work

Statues would probably be impossible to implement with more then 10 players.

@"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:First of all, there is literally no reason (beyond Anet's trying to shore up a game mode they knew would otherwise fail) that crafting legendary armor should work any different than crafting legendary weapons.

Second of all, if you want to introduce players to raids, make an easier mode (closer to dungeons or mid-tier fractals in difficulty). Anet will never do it, because the raiders will shriek with rage at the prospect of the unwashed masses being able to get "their" rewards, and because they're extremely loathe to admit when they've made a bad decision.What exactly do you recommend be done to make the raids easier? Some of the bosses are entirely dependent on having all the mechanics to make them any sort of challenge.

[Briareos.1865]

I don't want another serpents ire where too much coordination is needed. People will rarely do it and when pugs do it it fails. Only managed to get my backpack thx to TTS.Edit: was playing mesmer on interrupt duty, event is very fun when it's organised but its something too much to ask for on regular pugs

[foozlesprite.8051]

I don't agree with either of your poll options because your wording was horrible and there wasn't enough nuance. All this would be to me is an annoyance without rewards, because literally the only reason I would have to do raids is the story, which I can't get like this. It's surprising, but many open-world players are open-world players because they enjoy the story instead of things like, oh, I dunno, raids.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

I agree with this. I chose to not do raids in this game because I don't like how the combat system is and so I cut myself off from those rewards. Not wanting to do what it takes means I do not get the rewards. This is perfectly normal. Also, from my point of view, you don't usually use more than a few stat sets and crafting say 3 sets of ascended armor is open to all. It's also easier to make than legendary armor. Sure it takes an extra bag of inventory to carry around or bigger bags and that's also perfectly doable.

As I basically just do story, open world and crafting, I have no need for legendary armor. Sure, if there were legendary armor or weapons available that don't require going into pvp and raids I would probably go for it. Don't care for trinkets much because they are not visible anyway, but I do not feel that I deserve the current legendary armor sets or weapons when I do not want to do PvP or raids.

[Batel.9206]

@foozlesprite.8051 said:I don't agree with either of your poll options because your wording was horrible and there wasn't enough nuance. All this would be to me is an annoyance without rewards, because literally the only reason I would have to do raids is the story, which I can't get like this. It's surprising, but many open-world players are open-world players because they enjoy the story instead of things like, oh, I dunno, raids.

This. This, this, this. I cannot agree more. I play this game for the story, lore, and exploration of a vast and beautiful world. I don't play it for complicated fight mechanics, and I don't care about raid rewards. Having random raid bosses ambush me when I'm just skipping around in the open world, exploring or playing the story or relaxing, would be the antithesis of fun for me.

[Cyninja.2954]

If you want a serious poll:

• make sure to be as unbiased as possible
• try to reach as many people as possible (reddit would have been a better place to ask this question)
• engage people responding in your thread with respect
• ideally make the poll anonymous, it allows people to vote more in line with what they want and less with what they think is expected from them

None of those points apply to this poll thus I can only assume it's meant as a joke or fun poll.

That said, what has been very clear so far is that many people who play open world do not want more demanding bosses (which I understand, I open world just for relaxation too) and making most of the raid boss fights even available in open world would be a huge effort for minimal output (which might not even be desired) only to push raid rewards into open world.

[Biff.5312]

Regardless of the specifics of your suggestion, I would like to see more world event stuff - and if it's more random so much the better. They need to shake up the world boss mill.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@"Dante.1763" said:

And as to "doing the content to get the armor" you can literally BUY runs for the content, and you dont have do it at all, so that argument is pretty laughable.

While this is technically true, I dare you to find the open world PvE player who actually has the funds to repeatedly buy runs to get legendary raid armor. So yes, actually doing the content is the most realistic way to obtain raid armor. People who have the funds to buy all the runs needed for the first 150 LI (or 300 for a 2nd and 3rd set) are highly unlikely to be open world PvE players anyway. That's just not where the gold is in this game.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:I think that whatever you're smoking is bad for you and you should stop it.Ehhhh...... Isn't that just pure toxic without adding any value to the conversation?

@Ayrilana.1396 said:No. Anet had dumbed down versions in LS3 and it didn’t change anything.I also still stand by that if players want the raid rewards then they have to earn them like everyone else and actually do (or participate) in the actual raids.

Bigger picture! You are being blinded by the rock and don't see the rest of the beach!

This change will accomplish two things:

• No raiders will have an opportunity to sample the Raids mechanics and lose the fear to begin with it.
• It will introduce no-raiders to raids rewards. Having access to an small sample of the long term rewards will make some start raiding just to be able do something with those LI. It works with the black lion chests i don't see i can't work with this.
• To avoid failing to meet the weekly quota probably more players will join.
• Hardcore raiders will have an opportunity to play the raid once more but somehow different! For more rewards!
• More people playing the content (Raids) in words of MightyTeapot means more resources from the company to develop more content!

But Hey! I see most of the voters here(62% at this moment) (Raiders i guess?) don't want new opportunities for new players to join! And then here complain about why it takes so long to develop a raid...

You’re blinded by the desire to get raid rewards without putting in the effort it takes to learn and complete them.

And you're blinded by this notion that raids are somehow special and deserve bigger rewards, when its its the exact opposite in intent...... they made the thing harder so less people would consistently get the reward. The reward is the bait, and the only reason anyone would put the effort into it; which is why raiders feel threatened when that exclusivity aspect is removed, because they spent all that effort on a sub-optimal path.

Rewards to match the effort required to learn the raid(s) and succeed. Are you suggesting they should have rewards on par with world bosses?

Personally I find the whole reward system to be the problem, since so much of the "end game/hard content" rewards directly exist to make repeating that process easier. Whats the point of "challenging the player" if the goal is to reduce the challenge?

What’s the point in doing challenging content more than once if all of the rewards for it got sent to content that can simply be zerged?

If they had the same rewards, would you still do the raids? Thats my point..... the rewards are the driver for both the interest in the mode for new players, and the only defense pitched by raiders as to why the rewards should remain exclusive. WvW and PvP Legendary armor take even longer, and are arguably more resource intensive, yet is considered a lesser reward because it lacks a unique skin. Yet I don't see Raider flocking to WvW at the realization of it being a potentially bigger challenge, or pushing for GvG to be a thing because it would be a harder fight worthy of their skill.

~snip~ If you don't see this as being a flaw in the reward incentive, by design no less, then I can only assume you're completely caught up in the idea that its "being taken away" when the truth is it should had been available to everyone due to its ubiquitous benefit.

You don't get it, that Legendary armor is the reward for doing Raids in GW2, if you want those QOL benefits(which are not needed in Open World PvE at all) then you need to do the content. If you aren't willing to do the content to get the armor then you really don't want the armor, it's quite simple really, just basic human nature, not even something you have to learn psychology to figure out. It does not deserve to be offered in Open World PvE...there fore there doesn't need to be any mechanism to introduce Raids to new players. If someone was interested in doing Raids they would do them, otherwise they're not interested in doing Raids at all.

No. the Armor skin is the reward from doing raids, nothing more, which is why the population of people who do raids is so small. Legendary armor should be available to every player in the game, it shouldnt be locked behind the hardest content "because reasons". Locking the unique skin behind raids i am 100% okay with, but a legendary armor that is similiar in style to wvw or pvp armor available in PVE would not be an issue.

And as to "doing the content to get the armor" you can literally BUY runs for the content, and you dont have do it at all, so that argument is pretty laughable.

Since it's available in WvW and PvP(except for the skin, as you say, which makes it different from those Legenary armors) it's considered available in all 3 aspects of the game, Raids are just a subset of PvE...no need to add it to Open World. Yes, you can buy runs in Raids, which means you are PAYING for the Legendary armor, you are not EARNING it, which is what happens when you do the content as intended, not saying that paid runs aren't intended, they're a perfectly viable way to do the content, if you're that desperate to get those skins that you're willing to pay for them. There's a lot more players that just DO NOT CARE about the Raids, and no amount of incentive is going to make them want to do the content, it was never intended for the masses,

Oh, but you are earning it. You are doing the content that it requires even if you dont know what you are doing. Ive earned all my legendaries that i have now, even though ive had to pay for them because of anets terrible drop rate and luck system and to say otherwise is laughable. Raids are there own game mode, and honestly should be treated as such, as it is the entirety of PVE is now being balanced around them, which is painful for people who do not touch raids at all. Yes theres alot of players that dont care about raids in this game, which is why they should have realized that it would make the larger portion of the playerbase not happy with the inability to get the QOL upgrade that is that armor, and why i will always support a general PVE variant of legendary armor(even if its as lazy as first crafting ascended armor and then upgrading it to a legendary variant using a bunch of the generation two gifts which are very expensive over all.) because the vast majority shouldnt be left out when it comes to being able to obtain something that allows for stat swapping in my opinion, even though i fully support raids having the unique raid armor

SKIN

of legendary armor, and honestly i would fully support PVP and WvW getting their own unique variants too, but arena net will not do that due to the lack of interest the raid skin got(again due to the lack of overall player interest in raids.)

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:First of all, there is

literally no reason

(beyond Anet's trying to shore up a game mode they knew would otherwise fail) that crafting legendary armor should work any different than crafting legendary weapons.

This right here, is 100% correct.

When paying for a run through a Raid, you do not have to do anything at all except follow along, the other 9 players are the ones that are actually doing the content, so no, you aren't earning it by doing the content(unless you consider death at each encounter doing the content), and some of them actually just tell the person to wait until they're finished. Again, the stat-swapping feature of Legendary armor is totally UNNECESSARY in Open World, it's best suited to PvP and WvW. Also, trying to say Raids are not part of PvE is just incorrect, it is Player vs Environment, you do not fight other players, only game created content...doesn't matter if it is open world or instanced, it's still PvE.

[Dreadshow.9320]

Why? If pp want to face a raid boss they can do a raid if they want to face an open world boss they just do open world... Seriously why do want to mix the 2?