Should breakbars be removed?

[Palador.2170]

How I would address the tutorial issue:

• Make a blue treasure chest model.
• Give it a break bar.
• Put one in each starting zone somewhere, much like the dodge tutorials but further along. Add in a NPC that says that they've tried hitting the chest, but it doesn't want to open.
• Add in a pop-up that shows when you get close (again, like the dodge tutorials) that tells you to hit it with skills that cause blindness, stun, knockback, ect to lower the blue bar to open it.
• Replace the occasional JP chest and/or hidden chests throughout the world with blue chests, to serve as reminders and give players chances to test out newly gained skills as they advance through the world. No NPC or pop-up needed for these chests.

[yann.1946]

The only thing I would change I making break bars which don't effect some c.c. So some break bar mobs can be immobilized etc.

[Lonecap.4105]

@"Palador.2170" said:How I would address the tutorial issue:

• Make a blue treasure chest model.
• Give it a break bar.
• Put one in each starting zone somewhere, much like the dodge tutorials but further along. Add in a NPC that says that they've tried hitting the chest, but it doesn't want to open.
• Add in a pop-up that shows when you get close (again, like the dodge tutorials) that tells you to hit it with skills that cause blindness, stun, knockback, ect to lower the blue bar to open it.
• Replace the occasional JP chest and/or hidden chests throughout the world with blue chests, to serve as reminders and give players chances to test out newly gained skills as they advance through the world. No NPC or pop-up needed for these chests.

Really nice idea. A lot of casual players pay more attention to the "loot" and less to enemy target information so that would be a good way to nail the point in.

[Game of Bones.8975]

A (not so) simple way to teach break bar etiquette might be to add a graphics option that would allow skills which affect the bar to be highlighted (or flash a couple times) to show players which skills in their inventory to use and when.

The corresponding break bar icon would show the same indicator, highlight or flashes, to note when to use the skill most effectively. Eventually, the player would be able to turn off that "crutch" and know to look at the break bar and associate it with those skills.

When the break bar is vulnerable, those skills stand out and you play them most effectively instead of mashing buttons randomly hoping you accidentally do something right and learn nothing in the process.

[Justine.6351]

Is annoying having to do breakbar for like 3 people to make up for the other people doing afk aa.

They should give you 1g on boss kill if you do 1000 breakbar damage on a single breakbar and 2g if you do the most accumulated total for that boss kill

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I voted to keep them as they are. There are many bosses in the world, with many different mechanics. Break bar is one. Some are harder, some easier. I believe that it is important to keep the variety so that all players can find the level of difficulty they like to have. :)

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I believe the Break Bar system is superior to the old Defiance mechanic. However, I also believe there are a few mobs with break bars that need revision. Notably, the Bloodstone Elementals in the BS Fen, whose bar only loses about 10% to a Daze, and resets within a second or so. What's the point? These are normal mobs that most players will kill with a few attacks. Why even give them a bar in the first place?

[DeanBB.4268]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:A (not so) simple way to teach break bar etiquette might be to add a graphics option that would allow skills which affect the bar to be highlighted (or flash a couple times) to show players which skills in their inventory to use and when.

The corresponding break bar icon would show the same indicator, highlight or flashes, to note when to use the skill most effectively. Eventually, the player would be able to turn off that "crutch" and know to look at the break bar and associate it with those skills.

When the break bar is vulnerable, those skills stand out and you play them most effectively instead of mashing buttons randomly hoping you accidentally do something right and learn nothing in the process.

I voted "rework" not so much to change the system, but to better educate people. I liked Palador's idea to add a "breakbar tutorial chest" in the starter areas, but would like to see something in a real fight to guide people.

[Boysenberry.1869]

Break Bars are already fairly easy and casual. Spam a few CC skills and win. They could add more incentive to break the bars. Perhaps increase the monster damage but when the bar is broken they take 100% extra damage instead of 50%.

[Scud.5067]

They're ignored in as much as, if you haven't noticed them and understood them you won't until someone spends 1 minute explaining them to you - or you go check the wiki.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Should breakbars be removed in favor for more easy and casual gameplayThere's a presumption that that "casual" gamers can't understand basic mechanics. There's a further presumption that oversimplifying the game makes it more fun for everyone.

Accordingly, I don't think the facts support the premise of the question.

[Tails.9372]

Remove but not for the sake of "more easy and casual gameplay", I want enemies to exhibit / encompass more complex behavior / game mechanics instead of just having to switch from DPS to CC back to DPS.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Should breakbars be removed in favor for more easy and casual gameplayThere's a presumption that that "casual" gamers can't understand basic mechanics.

That may in fact be true of some players others would call casuals. However, the presumption might instead be that some players, whether they self-identify as "casual," or not, do not utilize basic mechanics, regardless of understanding. Had I a gold for every time I've seen a longbow ranger use skill 4 (knockback), then move into melee range and attack with LB skill 1, I could have bought a couple of Gen 1 Legendary weapons by now.

Of course, I don't believe the game should cater everything to lack of understanding, whether involuntary or willful.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Break bars should become mandatory elements to encounters that causes the events to fail uf not broken. I wish more content was like serpents ire

[Brynioch.1873]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:I believe the Break Bar system is superior to the old Defiance mechanic. However, I also believe there are a few mobs with break bars that need revision. Notably, the Bloodstone Elementals in the BS Fen, whose bar only loses about 10% to a Daze, and resets within a second or so. What's the point? These are normal mobs that most players will kill with a few attacks. Why even give them a bar in the first place?

You are supposed to break them with bloodstone shards, not normal CC.

Break bars are fine. The problem is still that the core content needs a revision. It's too easy and teaches nothing.

[Karaha.3290]

And next remove everything where we need to dodge, please.Since many ppl don't dodge often...

[Overlord RainyDay.2084]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:I believe the Break Bar system is superior to the old Defiance mechanic. However, I also believe there are a few mobs with break bars that need revision. Notably, the Bloodstone Elementals in the BS Fen, whose bar only loses about 10% to a Daze, and resets within a second or so. What's the point? These are normal mobs that most players will kill with a few attacks. Why even give them a bar in the first place?

That's because those guys have a special mechanics (that are never outright explained). Regular CC does almost nothing, but throwing a bloodstone shard instantly breaks their bar. Seems to be the case with most bloodstone -crazed white mantle as well. It didn't realize it until the first part of One path ends where the only good way to break the white mantle boss's bar is to throw shards.

[KeoLegend.5132]

Wtf ppl voted yes?Might aswell want auto-run and never gets below 1hp on PvE aswell?

[Mantheren.5428]

I am not a fan of break bars, never have been. I prefer the crowd control skills to actually do the crowd control effects they were meant for. Not be repurposed to break a bar.

[Cifrer.6013]

All the enemies should be reworked to have classes and utilize skills similar to how the training classes in the pvp lobby work.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

There's a lot of issues with breakbars in general that need to be fixed:

• Soft CC (by far the most common and widely available kind) is literally worthless against them by itself
• Availability of hard CC varies wildly between classes, and between weapon types within them
• The weapons that provide a lot of CC are usually also pretty bad for damage, which makes them sub-par for everyday in-game use (to the point where many players not only choose not to use them, but might not even have one to use)
• Break bars regenerate way too fast, much faster than your CC skills do (which tend to have PVP-balanced cooldowns, ie long ones), so when you're by yourself there's no reason to break them unless they're the scripted kind you absolutely need to
• They also scale way out of proportion to the player population, at the high end they're almost impossible to break
• A lot of miscellaneous weirdness, like veteran enemies with breakbars just so you can't CC them out of their gimmicks (bristlebacks, those hoverboarding forged, awakened canids), or break bars that don't actually work the way you'd logically expect (mordrem desolators)

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Mantheren.5428 said:I am not a fan of break bars, never have been. I prefer the crowd control skills to actually do the crowd control effects they were meant for. Not be repurposed to break a bar.

They do on normal mobs but if no bosses had a breakbar, they would just be chain CC's being permanently stunned or pulled about the area by 50 people. They would totally ruin every boss that has large numbers of people in. What would you suggest to stop that from happening thats better than a breakbar?

[Mantheren.5428]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:They do on normal mobs but if no bosses had a breakbar, they would just be chain CC's being permanently stunned or pulled about the area by 50 people. They would totally ruin every boss that has large numbers of people in. What would you suggest to stop that from happening thats better than a breakbar?I am actually fine with that happening. They can do it to us as well. The skill says it does a push back, then I expect it to do a pushback basically.

[Rauderi.8706]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@"Palador.2170" said:How I would address the tutorial issue:

• Make a blue treasure chest model.
• Give it a break bar.
• Put one in each starting zone somewhere, much like the dodge tutorials but further along. Add in a NPC that says that they've tried hitting the chest, but it doesn't want to open.
• Add in a pop-up that shows when you get close (again, like the dodge tutorials) that tells you to hit it with skills that cause blindness, stun, knockback, ect to lower the blue bar to open it.
• Replace the occasional JP chest and/or hidden chests throughout the world with blue chests, to serve as reminders and give players chances to test out newly gained skills as they advance through the world. No NPC or pop-up needed for these chests.

Really nice idea. A lot of casual players pay more attention to the "loot" and less to enemy target information so that would be a good way to nail the point in.

Best part about it, if the player doesn't have the skill slotted, there's plenty of time and no pressure, since they're mostly likely already out of combat.The hard part is finding a place/level band that is common enough for new players to have the skills and location to drive the interaction.

Additional tangent, we still should have blue numbers to announce Defiance damage.

[Gop.8713]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:I voted to drop it just so that suggestion wouldn't get lonely.

Aw, you beat me to it. That's what I get for responding before reading :(