Glacial Heart - Feedback

[Skyroar.2974]

So, I've just tried to build around Glacial Heart in PvE, simply because I enjoy the theme behind it, but it seems like the trait is not effective for several reasons.

1. What's the point of a low-duration chill if your target is disabled?By the time your disables end, so does chill. This might make some sense in PvP, where the cooldown penalty is still relevant, but not so much in PvE. Chill is effectively wasted.
2. It does not affects immobilizes.While Firebrand's Stoic Demeanor trait applies slows on disables and immobilizes, Glacial Heart does not, disregarding about half of Guardian's disabling tools, even within the hammer itself. Zealot's Embrace, Scepter's Chains of Light, traited Wings of Resolve, Signet of Wrath and all the many traits that synergy with immobilize have zero synergy with this trait.
3. The damage is so low that you can't use it for damage anyways.Maybe the balance team was afraid of how easily you would be able to stack chill and deal damage if it were to proc on immobilizes, but currently, it isn't good at either for PvE.
4. Glacial Blow is weaker than its non-upgraded variant.A 17% damage increase does not justify a 50% cooldown increase when a low-duration chill is so uneffective in general PvE.

My proposed solution:

• Increase chill duration from 2 seconds to 3 for PvE only.
• Have the passive effect proc on immobilizes but reduce damage dealt in competitive modes OR leave it restricted as it is but increase damage dealt for PvE only.

[Hashberry.4510]

Its odd. Feels like an axe buff and a hammer nerf.

[Obtena.7952]

The chill effect on this trait has always been weird ... it's not like Guardians have many effects that interact with chilled foes and thematically ... doesn't align. No matter how many times they try to change it, it continues to feel wrong. It should have been a cripple since day one. Would have addressed a few old problems with Guardians in PVP in the beginning; would have continued to be relevant in today's game. They just can't let this failure go.

[borgs.6103]

From a (Core Guardian) WvW-roamer perspective:

1. Glacial Blow can potentially replace the damage lost from the burst of the previous Glacial Heart procs. If it hits.
2. New Glacial Heart is like "Impacting Disruption" that hits instantly but deals way less damage and chills. Kinda meh since it can't critically hit and your access to interrupts are way lower than a Daredevil's. (Theirs is on-demand and has no cooldown). The Chill part was already there before the change so all-in-all it's more of a nerf. Uninspired, in my opinion.
3. The trait slot competes with Absolute Resolution. Before the change, I won't think twice to perma-trait Glacial Heart when wielding a Hammer because it also decreases the cooldowns even when facing heavy condi pressure. This makes me play smarter with my condi cleanses.

The best thing the change brought was probably the default lowered hammer cooldowns. While Glacial Blow is nice, it increases the cooldown. The loss of crit damage from Glacial Heart procs, and only proc'ing on interrupt makes the hammer trait mediocre and to be honest, I would rather just use Absolute Resolution.

[Kicast.1459]

new concept coming: negative traitsAnet...why putting efforts on developping downgrading traits ?..seriously...What is the reasoning here ?build gem shop items...would be less harmfull

[Arcaedus.7290]

In a pve setting, people don't take hammer for the dps anymore. In a pvp setting, it's very rare that you'll be using mighty blow on cooldown consistently so a 6s cd isn't actually all that much of a nerf vs. a 4s cd. Given the additional effect though, and the fact that it's a blast finisher I think it would have been fine to keep the skill at 5s cd both traited and untraited.

[Frostchant.1523]

Damn, I hoped I would see "Glacial Guardian" build comming to life, but it was like a kick in the balls.

To make this wish come true, it would require buffing Glacial Heart's effect on disable, so it will trigger on immobilization, cripple etc, or to add more traits that will benefit from chilling (or just movement impairing) enemies.

I'll say this with broken heart: It would be better, if Anet removed Glacial Heart trait completly.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@Frostchant.1523 said:I'll say this with broken heart: It would be better, if Anet removed Glacial Heart trait completly.

Same... It's a trait that's very out of place on the guardian class and was only kept the way it was due to popular demand.

Just an idea: would much prefer if they made an elite spec the featured many elements thematically in line with glacial heart, like maybe a norn-inspired guardian elite spec, and glacial heart (what it does now) could be one of the traits.

They could then rework the hammer trait in virtues to keep the damage (which is why many people take it in the first place), but also apply more frequent cripple which would really help hammer users stay on top of their target.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Has a person with a day-one guardian... Well, what did you expect?Guardian has been the most reliable class in the game with the most steady performance, of course the balance team has to screw that up... Not that it was a big one, but seriously, it baffles me that at this point in time, people still expect a good balance patch. I'm happy if it isn't a totally game breaking terrible one.

[Aza.2105]

The new glacial heart is awesome!!!!!! Guardian has so many conditions now and you can almost perma chill with the right build.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Kicast.1459 said:new concept coming: negative traitsAnet...why putting efforts on developping downgrading traits ?..seriously...What is the reasoning here ?build gem shop items...would be less harmfull

This isn't a new concept, Necromancer have awaken the pain which reduce condition damage for an increase in power damage given by might since quite some time already.

They have another concept which is to put some random ICD on core traits based on your chosen specialization. It's still in testing phase thought it shouldn't hit the other professions before june 2019.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Frostchant.1523" said:kitten, I hoped I would see "Glacial Guardian" build comming to life, but it was like a kick in the balls.

To make this wish come true, it would require buffing Glacial Heart's effect on disable, so it will trigger on immobilization, cripple etc, or to add more traits that will benefit from chilling (or just movement impairing) enemies.

I'll say this with broken heart: It would be better, if Anet removed Glacial Heart trait completly.

Let's be honest ... there was no build that was going to be made around a single master trait. What did happen is that Anet lost (again) the opportunity to take a failed, one-dimensional application of a condition and make it work with ANYTHING else in the Guardian toolkit.

@Aza.2105 said:The new glacial heart is awesome!!!!!! Guardian has so many conditions now and you can almost perma chill with the right build.

.. and for what purpose? So we need the 'right' build to perma-chill? That's not all that exciting considering chill doesn't interact with anything else the Guardian can do.

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

I'll echo the sentiment already shared. The increase in cooldown is too severe for the trait to be anything good. Furthermore hammer as a weapon still suffers tremendously due to how slow everything on it is.

A well intentioned but ultimately pointless change.

[Yannir.4132]

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Has a person with a day-one guardian... Well, what did you expect?Guardian has been the most reliable class in the game with the most steady performance, of course the balance team has to screw that up... Not that it was a big one, but seriously, it baffles me that at this point in time, people still expect a good balance patch. I'm happy if it isn't a totally game breaking terrible one.

On the contrary, the balance patches have been great in general for the whole year. Some mistakes were made along the way but none of it has been deliberate.This is the only balance patch this year that has had some intentional and really questionable decisions.

The new Glacial Heart lowers hammers performance in all game modes. They tried lowering the burst of core radiant hammer in PvP, which now has a negative effect on the other modes as well. Together with the unfounded sword nerf last patch, it's getting tough to understand what they are thinking. Especially since those same burst capabilities have barely been touched on other classes.

Other questionable decisions this patch include the Portal duration nerf, the Lead Attacks nerf on thief and the buff to Dolyak Stance on Soulbeast. The Firebrand nerf I'm not too salty about, I knew it was coming. I'm sorry for the non-PvPers that got blindsided by it though.

I think we are entering the period of next Expansion development where all the previous ESpecs are repeatedly nerfed to make space for the new ones. The problem is they don't do it evenly which leaves some builds comparatively strong "flavor of the month"-kinda things for extended periods of time.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Has a person with a day-one guardian... Well, what did you expect?Guardian has been the most reliable class in the game with the most steady performance, of course the balance team has to screw that up... Not that it was a big one, but seriously, it baffles me that at this point in time, people still expect a good balance patch. I'm happy if it isn't a totally game breaking terrible one.

On the contrary, the balance patches have been great in general for the whole year. Some mistakes were made along the way but none of it has been deliberate.This is the only balance patch this year that has had some intentional and really questionable decisions.

The new Glacial Heart lowers hammers performance in all game modes. They tried lowering the burst of core radiant hammer in PvP, which now has a negative effect on the other modes as well. Together with the unfounded sword nerf last patch, it's getting tough to understand what they are thinking. Especially since those same burst capabilities have barely been touched on other classes.

Other questionable decisions this patch include the Portal duration nerf, the Lead Attacks nerf on thief and the buff to Dolyak Stance on Soulbeast. The Firebrand nerf I'm not too salty about, I knew it was coming. I'm sorry for the non-PvPers that got blindsided by it though.

I think we are entering the period of next Expansion development where all the previous ESpecs are repeatedly nerfed to make space for the new ones. The problem is they don't do it evenly which leaves some builds comparatively strong "flavor of the month"-kinda things for extended periods of time.

Agree with all of what you said here except: the change to sword was actually a buff in pve (but it still falls short of scepter dps against a stationary target) and in pvp it is overall a nerf but it has a silver lining (less latency following sword auto 3 means faster startup for your following action) so it's not just a hard nerf.

[Lucentfir.7430]

I kind of feels like everyone forgot about DH, but I say it does have a bit better interaction with with Glacial Heart, if you're trying to run a Hammer LB build, you'll have a lot more access to disables with that than FB and Core Guard.

[Skyroar.2974]

About Mighty/ Glacial CD, I've ended up agreeing with some of the users. The higher CD is not really a nerf because, practically, you'll never get to use it every 4s if you don't want to interrupt your AA chain (in PvE at least). I think it would be cleaner to just have both version at 6 seconds, so that Glacial Blow's higher cd is not perceived as a nerf when, in reality, that has no meaningful impact in your rotation.

@Lucentfir.7430 said:I kind of feels like everyone forgot about DH, but I say it does have a bit better interaction with with Glacial Heart, if you're trying to run a Hammer LB build, you'll have a lot more access to disables with that than FB and Core Guard.You have the elite trap and a longbow trait that isn't worth slotting, imo. Firebrand is better because traited axe gives you two disables. In fact, axe is the real winner with those changes, not hammer, because axe's disables are easier to proc and don't screw with your damage rotation.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:About Mighty/ Glacial CD, I've ended up agreeing with some of the users. The higher CD is not really a nerf because, practically, you'll never get to use it every 4s if you don't want to interrupt your AA chain (in PvE at least). I think it would be cleaner to just have both version at 6 seconds, so that Glacial Blow's higher cd is not perceived as a nerf when, in reality, that has no meaningful impact in your rotation.

@Lucentfir.7430 said:I kind of feels like everyone forgot about DH, but I say it does have a bit better interaction with with Glacial Heart, if you're trying to run a Hammer LB build, you'll have a lot more access to disables with that than FB and Core Guard.You have the elite trap and a longbow trait that isn't worth slotting, imo. Firebrand is better because traited axe gives you two disables. In fact, axe is the real winner with those changes, not hammer, because axe's disables are easier to proc and don't screw with your damage rotation.

If you're going to be taking Glacial Heart, you're taking it for Mighty Blow Conversion to Glacial Blow, and the Glacial Heart on disable proc second, and Idk what type of FB you're running but if you're support will you be really willing to trade AR for 2s of chill on disable? If you're Condi are you going yolo considering you would already have Virtues and FB chosen?

As for DH You left out Spear of Justice/Hunter's Verdict and Hunter's Ward (Baby cages). Longbow trait while it should be baseline it's there, and pretty much all LB builds will use this over BGH.

[otto.5684]

I think it is safe to say that hammer is dead in PvP. Hammer was not PvE viable before and it is worse now. The trait was odd and the chill is out of place, but the changes did not change that and are definitely for the worse.

[JohnWater.5760]

.. and for what purpose? So we need the 'right' build to perma-chill? That's not all that exciting considering chill doesn't interact with anything else the Guardian can do.

Maybe he's using the Rune of ice (+7% damage on chilled enemies.)

[Arheundel.6451]

I guess hammer will become another dead weapon along with scepter, their ability to balance more than 1-2 things each 6 months...can be considered laughable at most

[Kicast.1459]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:About Mighty/ Glacial CD, I've ended up agreeing with some of the users. The higher CD is not really a nerf because, practically, you'll never get to use it every 4s if you don't want to interrupt your AA chain (in PvE at least). I think it would be cleaner to just have both version at 6 seconds, so that Glacial Blow's higher cd is not perceived as a nerf when, in reality, that has no meaningful impact in your ...

If it has no impact why not put everything at 4s ????

[Flintbrow.7985]

@"DiogoSilva.7089" said:About Mighty/ Glacial CD, I've ended up agreeing with some of the users. The higher CD is not really a nerf because, practically, you'll never get to use it every 4s if you don't want to interrupt your AA chain (in PvE at least). I think it would be cleaner to just have both version at 6 seconds, so that Glacial Blow's higher cd is not perceived as a nerf when, in reality, that has no meaningful impact in your ...

Absolutely nobody uses hammer in PVE. I noticed it's cooldown issues in WvW and just opted out asap...unless you are dueling, the chill just isn't a big enough incentive to use it. Honestly, not choosing it has been more advantageous.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

@Arheundel.6451 said:I guess hammer will become another dead weapon along with scepter, their ability to balance more than 1-2 things each 6 months...can be considered laughable at most

Is scepter dead? And hammer will still be good for protection? And even better now when it doesn’t need at trait to grant you 4 sec blast finisher.

[otto.5684]

@Phoenix the One.4071 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:I guess hammer will become another dead weapon along with scepter, their ability to balance more than 1-2 things each 6 months...can be considered laughable at most

Is scepter dead? And hammer will still be good for protection? And even better now when it doesn’t need at trait to grant you 4 sec blast finisher.

Scepter is meta dps in PvE for both FB and DH. Hammer on the other hand.. Protection uptime can be maintained without hammer at all using FB support. The dps build has no use for it.