Add duels + "disable duels" option

[Danikat.8537]

@"TamX.1870" said:In the previous game, we had sparring (dueling) option around the world. You got no rewards from loosing or winning, and you were not able to kill opponents entirely to rez circle: when either side lost health, spar was over (players were not targetable anymore) and loosing side was "exhausted" for like 5-10 secs before standing up again. You were able to enable/disable sparring invitations, just like other invitations, and I think it was disabled by default, so new players needed eventually to turn it on if they wanted to start sparring. Spars were entirely 1vs1, no other player could target the ones dueling (although some wanted to ruin certain spars by throwing heals in), and you could have only one spar running at time (you could not invite player sparring already to spar with you).

We used to have sparring circles in certain spots: mostly popular "hub" spots that were easy to access w/ instant traveling around the world. They used to be somewhat popular, people learning PvP basics and more experienced players trying out new classes & builds. But the game itself evolved to direction which made spars meaningless to practice for PvP. In this game, I could think that e.g. Lion's Arch would be one popular spot for duel circles, maybe also certain other places where you have easily accessible waypoint and some room around.

I have nothing to complain with the system, vice versa. As long as the game was somewhat balanced from PvP perspective, they were easy and cheap ways to practice, and it was always an option for quiet hours to have something to do.

What previous game? Guild Wars 1 didn't have anything like you've described.

Do you mean the MMO you played before this one?

@"Tasty Pudding.3764" said:Don't need "disable duels" option. Just make it so that when someone wants to initiate a duel, it pops up a choice for the other player. If that player declines, it automatically kills the initiator. :p

We absolutely do need a disable option, I don't want to waste my time trying to clear constant invite spam whenever I go into a town. And yes, it is that bad in some other MMOs. Maybe not everywhere, but especially in popular towns as soon as you enter you're hit with invites and if you decline they just send it again...and again...and again until they're blocked.

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Heraldusluminare.2946 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Actually, it seems it actually

would

be, for a multitude of reasons that have been mentioned in many such threads before. The main mechanical problem would be how the "friend/enemy/neutral" difference is coded in (and how it's not really susceptible to easy modifications).

Hmm... if it's just an enable/disable toggle switch, wouldn't that be easy? There are plenty of beasts roaming around that switch from neutral to hostile upon damage.

But yeah, don't think it's worth the effort when we have much more engaging PvP options.

Mobs are assigned a team colour hence why some factions cAn attack each other and players can't be targeted in such a way (same team). For duelling to work, a major coding change needs to occur apparently.

FYI I am fully against any form of open world pvp incl duelling regardless of a checkbox. Very little positive can come from it and there is simply no reason for it to exist there. Enable duelling in the pvp lobby sure, but never in open world

There already is an area in the Heart of the Mists where anyone can fight anyone. Plus various 1v1 PvP arenas and guild hall arenas. Apparently it's too much trouble to go there.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:

Ever heard of whispers? Say/map chat? Even mail?

Yeah right, some random people will harass you because you don't accept their duel. They'll send your E-MAILS because of it. Right. Sure, of course.

Outside of emails(odd choice to put) yes, the rest of those are correct.

I said MAIL not EMAIL.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Aodlop.1907 said:

Ever heard of whispers? Say/map chat? Even mail?

Yeah right, some random people will harass you because you don't accept their duel. They'll send your E-MAILS because of it. Right. Sure, of course.

Outside of emails(odd choice to put) yes, the rest of those are correct.

I said MAIL not EMAIL.

But but... stamps???

[TamX.1870]

@"Danikat.8537" said:Do you mean the MMO you played before this one?

Yes.

I'm not saying that I think duels would be top priority things in GW2. Definitely not. But it is definitely not a horror show as some seem to argue. I have heard of some games which have sort of PvP flag, which when turned on, makes you free-for-all punch bag to loot. Duels are not anything like that. It is not even anything like Runescape had at some point (maybe still has?), so that you lured unaware new players to PvP zone to kill them and loot them. If implemented, duels would be similar to many Hero Point challenges, with the exception that people around could not interfere (temporarily created faction maybe) - I'm not sure if we have already such mobs in GW2?

As the game already has options for practising PvP side, that's fine. I could hope that those things would be improved, for example, so that you could choose the game mode (PvE, sPvP, WvW) for your guild hall arena, maybe you could even choose map for GH arena, that is, guilds would have custom arena as a guild hall enchantment.

In my previous game, sparring used to be mainly "entry-level" PvP practicing, and just some fun while waiting for something. Nothing too serious, because it was not rewarded in any way, not even stats or counters about your spars.

[Eme.2018]

@Just a flesh wound.3589Lmao, Wow PvP flag system is a completely different thing. We are talking about dueling and you are making misleading and irrelevant posts using as an example a completely different Wow PvP mechanic.

Enabling duels doesn't mean enabling PvP flag, it means enabling duel invites.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Eme.2018 said:@Just a flesh wound.3589Lmao, Wow PvP flag system is a completely different thing. We are talking about dueling and you are making misleading and irrelevant posts using as an example a completely different Wow PvP mechanic.

Enabling duels doesn't mean enabling PvP flag, it means enabling duel invites.

And as qouted earlier in this very thread, the developers maintain it would be too much time and effort better spent elsewhere, especially given the options already available.

[Eme.2018]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:And as qouted earlier in this very thread, the developers maintain it would be too much time and effort better spent elsewhere, especially given the options already available.

Sure, and that's understandable. I just don't get why are people approaching this idea with such negativity. No one claimed that this is an absolutely essential feature, Gw2 has functioned and will be able to function just fine without open world dueling. But, it certainly is a quality of life feature, a flavor addition and admittedly it is the way I expect dueling to work in an MMO; spontaneous, immediate, without loading screens or hideous menus.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Eme.2018 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:And as qouted earlier in this very thread, the developers maintain it would be too much time and effort better spent elsewhere, especially given the options already available.

Sure, and that's understandable. I just don't get why are people approaching this idea with such negativity. No one claimed that this is an absolutely essential feature, Gw2 has functioned and will be able to function just fine without open world dueling. But, it certainly is a quality of life feature, a flavor addition and admittedly it is the way I expect dueling to work in an MMO; spontaneous, immediate, without loading screens or hideous menus.

The reason people are negative towards it is that they1) don't want the invite spam they they expect to come from it (either UI-based or in chat)2) don't want dev resources diverted to what is likely to be a significant undertaking, judging from what devs have said about it.

Personally, I'd be cool with some kind of dueling system available in areas designated for it, like various fighting pits or small arenas sprinkled around. However, I expect those that actually want duelling would be dissatisfied with such restrictions regarding place. I also feel that there are other areas that need the dev attention a lot more.

[Randulf.7614]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Diak Atoli.2085" said:And as qouted earlier in this very thread, the developers maintain it would be too much time and effort better spent elsewhere, especially given the options already available.

Sure, and that's understandable. I just don't get why are people approaching this idea with such negativity. No one claimed that this is an absolutely essential feature, Gw2 has functioned and will be able to function just fine without open world dueling. But, it certainly is a quality of life feature, a flavor addition and admittedly it is the way I expect dueling to work in an MMO; spontaneous, immediate, without loading screens or hideous menus.

Part of the reason why we are negative is based on experience. Many of us have played MMO's with duelling and this "disable" feature and still come away with a poor outlook on the situation (and internet maturities have declined massively in the intervening time). Some of it is directly in the duelling and the spamming requests (incl those that find ways to bypass the various filters or using it to grief at events and bosses etc), some of it is taking over of various chat channels causing us to have to mute and block constantly and sometimes it is a tonal shift within the culture of the community which gets put at risk.

It can be difficult to mix competitive and cooperative communities together. There are always knock on effects which may seem minor, but are often more intrusive. The easiest, clearest and most sensible solution is to simply segregate the two. Luckily, GW2 gives us that with 2 separate game modes for pvp and Guild Hall arenas. Could it do more in those areas to accomodate duelling? Possibly yes. Does it belong in open world? Not ever.

[Eme.2018]

@"Randulf.7614" said:Part of the reason why we are negative is based on experience. Many of us have played MMO's with duelling and this "disable" feature and still come away with a poor outlook on the situation (and internet maturities have declined massively in the intervening time). Some of it is directly in the duelling and the spamming requests (incl those that find ways to bypass the various filters or using it to grief at events and bosses etc)

Is the answer to this not in the title? How many times is this going to get mentioned.

, some of it is taking over of various chat channels causing us to have to mute and block constantly and sometimes it is a tonal shift within the culture of the community which gets put at risk.I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

It can be difficult to mix competitive and cooperative communities together. There are always knock on effects which may seem minor, but are often more intrusive. The easiest, clearest and most sensible solution is to simply segregate the two. Luckily, GW2 gives us that with 2 separate game modes for pvp and Guild Hall arenas. Could it do more in those areas to accomodate duelling? Possibly yes.

You are not mixing any communities together. The community remains the same with an added option for interaction.

Does it belong in open world? Not ever.

It is not a matter of belonging but rather a matter of matching. WoW, ESO, Tera have successfully matched the two together and we have no reason to believe that Gw2 can't do the same.

[Dante.1763]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Part of the reason why we are negative is based on experience. Many of us have played MMO's with duelling and this "disable" feature and still come away with a poor outlook on the situation (and internet maturities have declined massively in the intervening time). Some of it is directly in the duelling and the spamming requests (incl those that find ways to bypass the various filters or using it to grief at events and bosses etc)

Is the answer to this not in the title? How many times is this going to get mentioned.

This question tells me you didnt read what Randulf wrote. The answer to that question you just asked is in the second sentence of that paragraph, and its the primary reason im against it wholeheartedly.

, some of it is taking over of various chat channels causing us to have to mute and block constantly and sometimes it is a tonal shift within the culture of the community which gets put at risk.I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

Hes saying that the only way to avoid dual requests in chat is to begin blocking people, which is a terrible thing for a game that is marketed around cooperation in the open world.

You are not mixing any communities together. The community remains the same with an added option for interaction.

Thats not fully true, you would, PVP players(not the ones who do ranked) and WvW duelers(those who arent there for more than duels) would probably leave to do it in the open world.

It is not a matter of belonging but rather a matter of matching. WoW, ESO, Tera have successfully matched the two together and we have no reason to believe that Gw2 can't do the same.

It is a matter of it not belonging, one of the key points of this game is "you should be happy other players" , i can tell you now that if this was a thing i wouldnt ever want to see another player in a large part due to the trolls that WILL surface if this feature where to ever become a thing.

[Randulf.7614]

@Eme.2018 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Part of the reason why we are negative is based on experience. Many of us have played MMO's with duelling and this "disable" feature and still come away with a poor outlook on the situation (and internet maturities have declined massively in the intervening time). Some of it is directly in the duelling and the spamming requests (incl those that find ways to bypass the various filters or using it to grief at events and bosses etc)

Is the answer to this not in the title? How many times is this going to get mentioned.

I specifically addressed that in my reply and in the paragraph you quoted.

If what I have said is not a suitable answer for you, then that's fine. Others have explained it as well through this thread and through other threads, giving a full analysis of why disabling requests is not and never has been an adequate solution from our point of view.

edit: Dante's reply perhaps summarises things a bit better

[Eme.2018]

@"Dante.1763" said:This question tells me you didnt read what Randulf wrote. The answer to that question you just asked is in the second sentence of that paragraph

Didn't I say I didn't understand the second half of the paragraph? Anyhow, Randulf in the first half of the paragraph is talking about "dueling and the spamming requests" and my answer was specifically for the first half.

Hes saying that the only way to avoid dual requests in chat is to begin blocking people, which is a terrible thing for a game that is marketed around cooperation in the open world.I cannot describe how petty this argument sounds to me. Not only do you make the assumption that spamming duel requests via the chat will be a thing but you go ahead and make another assumption, that this behavior will be common enough to create widespread problems in the cooperation between players, which is absolutely absurd.Thats not fully true, you would, PVP players(not the ones who do ranked) and WvW duelers(those who arent there for more than duels) would probably leave to do it in the open world.Yeah, sure. The day this is implemented every PvPer will just say "Screw rewards and meaningful progress, open world dueling all the way, whoooo." And, are there really any dedicated WvW duelers? People that don't PvE at all and just log in to do some WvW duels? I don't think so. Besides every Gw2 player is and should be part of the open world. It is what MMOs are made for.It is a matter of it not belonging, one of the key points of this game is "you should be happy other players" , i can tell you now that if this was a thing i wouldnt ever want to see another player in a large part due to the trolls that WILL surface if this feature where to ever become a thing.Well, judging by the games that actually have this implemented you are dead wrong. Unless you think of the average Gw2 player as inferior to the average WoW, ESO, Tera player.

[Randulf.7614]

Dante directed you to the second sentence of the paragraph not the second half.

The assumption based on spamming requests isnt a petty argument. It is a very genuine situation that has and does occur in mmos that have had or do have the feature. We arent stating this to be objectionable, we are stating this because it is an experienced issue. It comes down to whether you are able to see it from this side of the fence. If you cant, then you will not have seen it in the aforementioned games even when it arises.

Regardless, gw2 is a different game built on different foundations and ideaologies. Pvp and open world do not compliment each other here. Plenty of pve players want to see pvp well away from their environment (in the same way wvw and spvp object to pve encroachments which i get) and no amount of disabling requests will eliminate the perceived toxicity that we either be.ieve or know from first hand experience that will come with the addition of any kind of pvp into it.

If you dont agree, then that is understandable. But our arguments are very valid and based on experience and give solid reasoning why the disable feature doesnt solve the issues.

[Warkind.6745]

Apparently if open world dueling is ever enabled, all the sPvP players will come flooding from the Mists to spam everyone with duel requests.

Anyways, there's your living story arc for after Kralk.

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:The OP doesn’t even acknowledge the options that currently exist in this game. Nor has there been an acknowledgement of the people who have posted the alternatives.

My take is that the OP doesn't like the existing options, maybe because those environments aren't as heavily populated as OWPvE and that s/he is looking for the style of gaming that s/he wants at the expense of the current iteration?More likely OP prefers dueling against opponents that

aren't

all that good at PvP.

@"Eme.2018" said:I cannot describe how petty this argument sounds to me. Not only do you make the assumption that spamming duel requests via the chat will be a thing but you go ahead and make another assumption, that this behavior will be common enough to create widespread problems in the cooperation between players, which is absolutely absurd.And yet this "absurd" thing is not purely theoretical, but rather something that actually happened/happens in other games that do have dueling options.

It is a matter of it not belonging, one of the key points of this game is "you should be happy other players" , i can tell you now that if this was a thing i wouldnt ever want to see another player in a large part due to the trolls that WILL surface if this feature where to ever become a thing.Well, judging by the games that actually have this implemented you are dead wrong. Unless you think of the average Gw2 player as inferior to the average WoW, ESO, Tera player.Perhaps he's simply knowing those games better than you do. Yes, that is something that does happen (and not so infrequently as you claim) in the games with dueling options (including the ones you mentioned).

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If none (or very few) players go to WvW for dueling (according to previous posts), why would the Devs spend the time or resources to enable dueling in Open World PvE? Seems like it would benefit a very small part of the playerbase.

If after all the threads over the years haven't convinced the Devs (see Dev post from only 3-4 months ago), I'm not sure yet another thread will.As far as I've seen, there's always more nays than yeas in said threads, anyway.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If none (or very few) players go to WvW for dueling (according to previous posts), why would the Devs spend the time or resources to enable dueling in Open World PvE? Seems like it would benefit a very small part of the playerbase.

If after all the threads over the years haven't convinced the Devs (see Dev post from only 3-4 months ago), I'm not sure yet another thread will.As far as I've seen, there's always more nays than yeas in said threads, anyway.Especially not a thread from I dont know... 2014? Must be since devs added options since.

We can duel in WvW (WvW rules), we can duel in the guild hall (PvE rules) and we can duel in the PvP lobby (PvP rules). Literally all options covered.

[Palador.2170]

[Edit] Too much snark, too little helpful feedback. Removed.

[phs.6089]

@Aodlop.1907 said:

Ever heard of whispers? Say/map chat? Even mail?

Yeah right, some random people will harass you because you don't accept their duel. They'll send your E-MAILS because of it. Right. Sure, of course.

You would be surprised. How many times i got in in other game 'unblock duel, dude' 'lets duel', 'why u no duel' , 'Fight me :_: !!!1111' etc.

Copy paste that guild arena, chop the code for NPCs to allow 1 in per round, done. Put around arena round stairs and give us thumbs down emoji.Yeah and make coupe of NPCs to go around and trow bread for crowd.

[Talindra.4958]

i think this will be a massive change to the game platform, no? I mean, we don't even have duel option in the mist..... and in wvw its simplified to two groups. .. i feel will be a massive reconstruction of the original guild wars … might break the game lol. i prefer without it. some dude will just go to the beautiful LA and make it a bully ground. you wanna duel a guy.. invite him to guild hall :P

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@"Aodlop.1907" said:Yeah right, some random people will harass you because you don't accept their duel. They'll send your E-MAILS because of it. Right. Sure, of course.

Like this?

I'm tired of sitting in goldshire , stormwind gate or w/e and getting spammed duel by idiots who keep talking trash if you don't comply to their request and today i had a very unpleasant encounter with a certain rogue.So i was sitting in goldshire minding my business and checking the new talents , basically trying to learn my class and then this rogue just comes up to me and starts to spam /duel me and spam my chat with trash talk to make me duel him. After a good 20mins of spam i decided to just duel him so he would leave me alone , and as any other feral i went bearform so i could take less dmg from his opener (duh) he then says "Get off bearform or i'll just sit in stealth." I just /forfeit. He then proceeds to spam me for another 15mins....

Or this?

To me, duelling is pointless and a waste of my time, I am not interested in it. My choice. I had no less than seven unasked for duel spams in less than three hours, one player, after getting a flat no the first time (NoDuel I LOVE YOU),he did it again.And again. And again....

Or this?

Something annoying -A few times now I've encountered someone who spams duel requests at me while I'm standing around checking windows/addons/etc.I click decline and they just keep requesting - one guy spammed requests as fast as I was declining them, kind of funny actually.

or maybe this

I just had two 120 alliance run around chasing my lowbie horde alt duel spamming me for no reason.

All these are people harassing the other person after being told no after a duel request. They are using dual request spam because it’s available to them. They’ll use trash talk if it’s not.

[Chay.7852]

Yeah, sure. The day this is implemented every PvPer will just say "Screw rewards and meaningful progress, open world dueling all the way, whoooo." And, are there really any dedicated WvW duelers? People that don't PvE at all and just log in to do some WvW duels? I don't think so.[...].>

Not the "real" pvp-fans or wvw-fans. But the trolls... and there are many ;) Those who camp at monuments with 3-4 ppl and kill the one (probably) pve-guy who is trying to do the master of monuments daily for example. Those who chase you over half of the map with some troll build but the moment when you start fighting them they will just run away -probably everyone knows what i mean ;)

Also... so much this

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@"Aodlop.1907" said:Yeah right,

some random people will harass you because you don't accept their duel

. They'll send your E-MAILS because of it. Right. Sure, of course.

Like this?

I'm tired of sitting in goldshire , stormwind gate or w/e and getting spammed duel by idiots who keep talking trash if you don't comply to their request and today i had a very unpleasant encounter with a certain rogue.So i was sitting in goldshire minding my business and checking the new talents , basically trying to learn my class and then this rogue just comes up to me and starts to spam /duel me

and spam my chat with trash talk

to make me duel him. After a good 20mins of spam i decided to just duel him so he would leave me alone , and as any other feral i went bearform so i could take less dmg from his opener (duh) he then says "Get off bearform or i'll just sit in stealth." I just /forfeit. He then proceeds to spam me for another 15mins....

Or this?

To me, duelling is pointless and a waste of my time, I am not interested in it. My choice. I had no less than seven unasked for duel spams in less than three hours, one player, after getting a flat no the first time (NoDuel I LOVE YOU),he did it again.And again. And again....

Or this?

Something annoying -A few times now I've encountered someone who spams duel requests at me while I'm standing around checking windows/addons/etc.I click decline and they just keep requesting - one guy spammed requests as fast as I was declining them, kind of funny actually.

or maybe this

I just had two 120 alliance run around chasing my lowbie horde alt duel spamming me for no reason.

All these are people harassing the other person after being told no after a duel request. They are using dual request spam because it’s available to them. They’ll use trash talk if it’s not.

Lets not go further than the situation we all know already... Spamming buffood or merchants or what-ever on chests in Tarir. 2 days ago someone summoned his/her permanent bank access express on the wintersday merchant. Some ppl enjoy annoying other ppl. Duels would just give such trolls more tools ;)

[TamX.1870]

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:Like this?...or maybe this"There needs to be an option similar to block trades / guild invites to block duel requests ... I realize there are addons that do this, and after this happened I redownloaded the one I had before reinstalling the game, but I think it should be built into the game – or at least make it so players can’t re-challenge you after you’ve already declined.

Seemingly WoW has missed a checkbox to disable spar invitations. I know that anything that can be used for bullying, will inevitably be used for bullying by someone. In the previous game I played, if you didn't check the box to allow spar invitations, you didn't get those: and IGM harrassment was dealt by blocking players just like here.

But of course, my bias to this subject is such that quite shortly after started playing, I kept my spar invitations allowed and mostly accepted those, so I don't have much experience from "other side". My only experience from that side is the beginning of the playing, I played months before even realizing that there were an option to duel with other players.

@Dawdler.8521:

We can duel in WvW (WvW rules), we can duel in the guild hall (PvE rules) and we can duel in the PvP lobby (PvP rules). Literally all options covered.

Well, WvW duels require that you play on different servers with people you want to duel, and communicating with your opponents is bit rough (for example, discussing about tactics, learning etc). PvP lobby has free-for-all arena, and it is rarely suitable place for any kind of controlled environment to test and learn things: custom arenas do this better. Guild hall arenas are the best ones at the moment, even that there is no competitive game mode using PvE side skills. With these options practicing is possible, but by no means they are easy to use, and they don't serve other important purposes:

---

I think I know what people are looking for when wishing for opportunity to have spontaneous duels. For an MMO, this game has surprisingly little social interaction. It is a result of many different small things. For example, most things you do, need at maximum loose grouping (joining a HP train or similar) and you really don't have to be talkative. You really don't make any bonds to players in PvP matches, as it is very rare you meet same players again: same with fractal PuGs. Guilds are those few rare places where people talk.

I have been hoping to have small things that would increase the amount of players talking to each other, to gather together to spend some time. Duel circles can be such thing. Surely, they would work much better in PvP/WvW lobby, which gathers PvPers together. But I could hope these lobbies (WvW, PvP, raids, fractals) could be part of open world (not separate maps), or anything that increases interaction between different types of players, but would still collect players with similar goals to certain places.

[Aodlop.1907]

All these are people harassing the other person after being told no after a duel request. They are using dual request spam because it’s available to them. They’ll use trash talk if it’s not.

Good job at finding a handful of exemples on a game older than the average Fortnite player, with many millions of players.Yeah, some people will be annoying. Some will whisper you. Too bad there is no such thing as a blocking feature.