The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

LetoII.3782 · June 4, 2019

@Anput.4620 said:
Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

You hit the nail on the head, but what did you expect?Most of the people who wanted to do anything other than find a big blob to hide in are long gone.

Anput.4620 · June 4, 2019

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@Anput.4620 said:
@Widmo.3186 said:
The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Why is there so much ranger hate now while all the mesmer/holo/thief hate has died down?

If anything, your argument that people are only complaining about soulbeasts because of them being dismounted is actually a reason to nerf them. Holo can be outrun by mounts, mesmer can spike them down but I've seen very few mesmers recently, I suspect they got hit by the nerf bat like thief did in the last 2-3 major patches. If your argument is that holo, thief, mesmer and soulbeasts were problems before mounts, and now mounts make movement easier and less risky only soulbeast is perceived as a problem, it just goes to show how stupidly overtuned the damage was on soulbeast pre mounts, no?

No, because it isn't about the damage, they all have that damage, it's about the range. Mounts are heavilly overtuned so i am fine with rangers and revs til the mounts get heavy nerfs.

A warrior has as much damage as a rapid fire in an arc divider, the difference is that you can't kill mounts unless you have the range of a ranger or the revs sword assault that sticks to their target.

LetoII.3782 · June 4, 2019

Also means the big pewpew likely isn't going much of anywhere until whoever is making the dismount skill gets around to it.Or else warclaw is essentially a spawn-at-will wherever on the map the rider chooses.

Anput.4620 · June 4, 2019

@LetoII.3782 said:Also means the big pewpew likely isn't going much of anywhere until whoever is making the dismount skill gets around to it.Or else warclaw is essentially a spawn-at-will wherever on the map the rider chooses.

I mean that's basically what it is and why more poeple play ranger as they can sorta deal with it, and my argument is that all the hate is focused on longbow ranger even though many other builds are way better at dueling/roaming just because they don't like it can sorta deal with it.

Pre mount i didn't even see that many soulbeasts compared to holo's, DE's, DD's. mirages, spellbreakers, now it is the opposite really. Like revs are still here because they can also dismount sometimes if they are stupid enough to get in sword range. But where did all these other specs go to and where did their complaints go to? They are still as good in actual fights, but oh, they can't hit you of their mount so yall don't care.

Like really it seems that most pro-mount players are just anti-anything that they don't like/beat them once.

freedomtolove.5476 · June 5, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmOcdI3mI59b09NiHxdUklg

DeadlySynz.3471 · June 5, 2019

@Widmo.3186 said:
The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Same reason why there is so much hate towards, warriors, guardians, revs, mesmers, engineers, and necros. If any of them play any type of damaging build and know what they're doing; many players don't seem to want to deal with it. They'd just rather scream nerf rather than learning how to play.

The difference between all those classes and the ranger in WvW (because this is a WvW forum), is:

Warrior: Has far more survivability through invulns, blocks, and mobility and does more overall damageGuaridan: Has far more use support wise in every aspectRevs: Do far far more damage than a soulbeast by nautical mile (and better support)Mesmers: Have far more burst potential and escape, better group supportEngineers: Far better 1v1 and 1vX potential, and far better group support (pretty much needed against condition heavy groups)Necros: Far more group damage, far more group support, and well, they corrupt boons

So that leaves us with Soulbeast.. why exactly are people complaining about them in WvW? How is someone dying to a Soulbeast? Jumping them on the way to the group? No Mount? Running around in glass and can't remember how to dodge? Seems to me any one of those classes above could use an abundance of gutting before Soulbeast is even touched.

iKeostuKen.2738 · June 5, 2019

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:
@"Widmo.3186" said:
The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Same reason why there is so much hate towards, warriors, guardians, revs, mesmers, engineers, and necros. If any of them play any type of damaging build and know what they're doing; many players don't seem to want to deal with it. They'd just rather scream nerf rather than learning how to play.

The difference between all those classes and the ranger in WvW (because this is a WvW forum), is:

Warrior: Has far more survivability through invulns, blocks, and mobility and does more overall damageGuaridan: Has far more use support wise in every aspectRevs: Do far far more damage than a soulbeast by nautical mile (and better support)Mesmers: Have far more burst potential and escape, better group supportEngineers: Far better 1v1 and 1vX potential, and far better group support (pretty much needed against condition heavy groups)Necros: Far more group damage, far more group support, and well, they corrupt boons

So that leaves us with Soulbeast.. why exactly are people complaining about them in WvW? How is someone dying to a Soulbeast? Jumping them on the way to the group? No Mount? Running around in glass and can't remember how to dodge? Seems to me any one of those classes above could use an abundance of gutting before Soulbeast is even touched.

Inb4, "But Soulbeast have 1 shot kill potential at 1800 range -posts a log of how they ate 10 hits from rapid fire and 2 autos-"

Substance E.4852 · June 5, 2019

More terrible players crying about rangers while immortal scrappers and scourge bomb just keeps eroding at what's left of the mode.

Typical...

Substance E.4852 · June 5, 2019

@"Widmo.3186" said:
The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.Have a good day.

Because people in this game are petty as fuck and refuse to ever accept rangers as anything other than free bags.

People were acting like the sky was falling back when Anet halved the channel time on RF. About a month later, they all got over their collective pants wetting and learned to dodgeroll instead of just "WM1 Pyro" spamming attacks to kill a ranger.

It's the same stupid complaints now as then.

noot.8641 · June 5, 2019

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@noot.8641 said:Seems to me that you don’t want your broken build to get nerfed.

Like the build you're roaming with is not....Daredevil s/d is a broken build? Daredevil is probably the most balanced build u can have at this moment.

Ragnarox.9601 · June 5, 2019

Guardian critical chance was nerfed from 50% to 25% so I believe soulbeast needs same treatment, kill it with 50% nerf.

Lan Deathrider.5910 · June 5, 2019

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

Thieves have teleports.Warriors have stability and lock on gap closers.Guardians have teleports and leaps.Engineers have leaps and reflects.

Just to name a few, they also have times where they are completely undamaged. This isnt even counting their vigor uptime for more evasion.

Ranger seems easily susceptible to CC's though. > @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

Talking about Hammer Revenant damage being compared to SlB Longbow here. Not sure where melee range is coming into play here. Why is the Rev in S/S?

@bigo.9037 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Gs3, Gs5, Bull rush, Shield, Rampage. This is if not running sword btw. With good sustain and dmg mitigation.

Yeah thief teles on inf arrow can be done when enough ini is available,one shadow step and infiltrator sig if targets available. Gs and owl slb can and have kept close enough to me disengaging on thief to easily pew pew me down. Ranger doesnt have to catch up to thief, just stay in pew pew range which is easy considering low CD of swoop and gs leap ontop of swiftness. Not to mention mounts. I've had mounted groups catch my DD and eat me alive. Ini isn't infinite for inf arrow and CD long enough on shadow step. Nowadays thief's mobility isn't that much better than a lot of classes, not like people make it out to be.Thief can also teleport without using any initiative.Kind of confused on how your playing your thief if your running from the ranger instead of closing the distance and stealthing up.Mounting in a 1vX situation is another issue itself, not much of a ranger issue then it is a mount implementation issue that should have never touched the mode to begin with.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@iKeostuKen.2738Rangers can also double swoop, about face weapon swap to sword, hornet's sting, about face again, Monarch's Leap. About the only class that can't play the mobility game is Necro.

If a ranger is doing that to stay out of range Im pretty they arent much of a threat at that point since they possibly just broke the out of combat zone. Also if they weapon swap they arent doing any damage to you at range and you have about 9 seconds of no pressure to do what you want.

(Btw, how do they have double swoop? Isnt there a cooldown on swaps and going beastmode?)

He probably just means a merged pet skill from bird or gazelle + the gs3 swoop.

But then they have no Longbow lol

I was pointing out the absurdity of debating mobility versus any class other than necros. You could keep the LB and instead of Sword about face and use Lightning reflexes :tongue:

@RedShark.9548 said:
@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@"Anput.4620" said:Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.
Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.
Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.
The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

How do you lose against berserker?

Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

And a warrior doesn't have gap closers or ranged secondary weapon sets, condi cleanses, immobilizes, and unblockables? Gunflame and Decapitate make the second and third good things Berserkers have. Bloody Roar makes four.

My point is all the ways you mentioned to counter a Berserker, a Berserker can counter play. Arc Divider is easy to see only because Berserk Mode has to precede it. What you may not see coming however, is Headbutt. The only thing saving you then is any passive invuln procs.

TLDR; How do you lose to a Berserker? Be in melee range and get CC'd even once.

what are you even talking about ?? headbutt is one of the easiest skills to see in the game, holy cow, so easy to dodge.you heard of stunbreaks ?? what kind of ppl are you fighting, that they die in one headbutt ? bots ? (getting hit by headbutt is in no way a death sentence)

seriously. even if you get hit by headbutt, you pop a stunbreak and dodge back, because hes probably spamming arc divider right now, maybe even activated signet of might (which takes up a very valuable skillslot), then you kite around, chilling and wait until his berserk is out, maybe even poke him in some way, while hes using all his cd to get to you, because hes desperate to get his dmg out in berserk duration.

also arc divider is easy to see, even without berserker activating before ? the only problem i see with that skill is, that a single dodge is not enough to dodge all 3 of the hits. the third one hits after the dodge ran out and is still in range.but hard to see ? no, maybe you need glasses, i dont know.

from all the posts ive seen from you in the forums you seem to just run full dmg yolo memebuilds and never actually fight ppl that know what they are doing.

Tl;dr: Nobody who knows how to play pvp and duells will die in A SINGLE CC, NOBODY! just no

And yet they do die. Frequently. What do you think I open with Headbutt? Oh you are kitting? Do you not think I have a rifle? Do you NOT use Headbutt at point blank range, ever? Because it comes out fast at point blank range, and everyone I've used it against that close gets hit. Berserk Mode is a 1/4s cast, and as you have said, a single dodge does not save you from Arc Divider, and if you double dodge then bless your heart because normal weapon skills hit like a truck in BMode.

I don't run from fights on my Berserker, or even my Reaper. As for full YOLO, I have run Defense on my Berserker, I just get more kills with Arms. Now if you do run Defense then I highly recommend Rousing Resilience paired with Savage Instinct.

But all of that is on the Warrior forums. This is about Soulbeast 1800 insta-downing people on a mount with no risk. Back on Topic please.

Psycoprophet.8107 · June 5, 2019

Oh how people's perspective changes when it's their class the community is asking to be put on chopping block next lmao.

Lan Deathrider.5910 · June 5, 2019

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Oh how people's perspective changes when it's their class the community is asking to be put on chopping block next lmao.

I am surprised that Sic'em has lasted as long as it has when it took, what 2 weeks, for Arc Divider to get a nerf.

Arc Divider, which some people think only noobs die to. Kind of like what the rangers are saying, "only noob glass builds die to my win button." News flash: Rapid Fire + Sic'em kills more than glass builds, and Arc Divider (even post nerf) kills more than just glass builds. When Sic'em is nerfed Rangers will still be pwning glass builds off mounts, they just have to follow up with other skills on non glass builds, like Berserkers have to do now.

Though to be fair I think the rollout of Berserker coinciding with a no downstate week in WvW exacerbated the power of Arc Divider, and may not have been nerfed so quickly if the no downstate event did not happen.

RedShark.9548 · June 5, 2019

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:
@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.