Perma-Invis Thieves are back

[MedievalThings.5417]

@Zephyra.4709 said:Tell us more how exactly someone who was permastealth managed to destroy you without breaking stealth... I thought trapper thief died ages ago? Unless this is a new build someone's found.

You can attack and restealth before the game renders you to the other player. By the time the game tries to render you, you are stealthed again, so the game doesn't ever render you.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:But I still think removing Aegis is a strong value add.Yeah I really miss that part of it

[AsiraasiB.7165]

This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

[SoV.5139]

Sounds like some LB2 burst-lords went back to their old meme build after their toy got shaved down a bit.

[Sylosi.6503]

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

If you don't understand why invisibility is OP in open world type PvP then it is you that needs to learn to play. It is the same in pretty much every game, even ones that have far more counters than in GW2.

When I play ESO and want ez-mode when I go roaming, you know what two classes I play, magsorc because mobility like stealth is OP in these game modes or I play nightblade because of stealth.

And to put GW2's pitiful reveal in perspective, in ESO every single class has access to reveal skills that can simply be slotted in on your bar (in any build if you want), then AOE skills reveal you (in a game where there are no cooldowns so AOE can be spammed) and then detect pots on top of that. And guess what it is still faceroll OP even then, I can do things on my nightblade that I could only dream of on my necro, DK, etc.

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is busted.

Yet if I play sPvP and do the same thing, I am punished by losing the capture circle, failing to make use of our 2v1 which then means we are 3v4 the rest of the map, etc, and conversely my opponent is rewarded by the flipside of those things for outplaying me. And that risk vs reward is the basis for balance in a game, which is missing from WvW in so many aspects and that is one of the reasons why it died 4+ years ago, not because a few players so bad that they think a weak band-aid like reveal is monstrously unfair to stealth in WvW.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

If you don't understand why invisibility is OP in open world type PvP then it is you that needs to learn to play. It is the same in pretty much every game, even ones that have far more counters than in GW2.

When I play ESO and want ez-mode when I go roaming, you know what two classes I play, magsorc because mobility like stealth is OP in these game modes or I play nightblade because of stealth.

And to put GW2's pitiful reveal in perspective, in ESO every single class has access to reveal skills that can simply be slotted in on your bar (in any build if you want), then AOE skills reveal you (in game where there are no cooldowns so AOE can be spammed) and then detect pots on top of that. And guess what it is still faceroll OP even then, I can do things on my nightblade that I could only dream of on my necro, DK, etc.

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is busted.

Yet if I play sPvP and do the same thing, I am punished by losing the capture circle, failing to make use of our 2v1 which then means we are 3v4 the rest of the map, etc, and conversely my opponent is rewarded by the flipside of those things for outplaying me. And that risk vs reward is the basis for balance in a game, which is missing from WvW in so many aspects and that is one of the reasons it why it died 4+ years ago, not because a few players so bad that they think a weak band-aid like reveal is monstrously unfair to stealth in WvW.

I was thinking on making a stem warden, are they decent in pvp?

[SoV.5139]

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

If you don't understand why invisibility is OP in open world type PvP then it is you that needs to learn to play. It is the same in pretty much every game, even ones that have far more counters than in GW2.

When I play ESO and want ez-mode when I go roaming, you know what two classes I play, magsorc because mobility like stealth is OP in these game modes or I play nightblade because of stealth.

And to put GW2's pitiful reveal in perspective, in ESO every single class has access to reveal skills that can simply be slotted in on your bar (in any build if you want), then AOE skills reveal you (in game where there are no cooldowns so AOE can be spammed) and then detect pots on top of that. And guess what it is still faceroll OP even then, I can do things on my nightblade that I could only dream of on my necro, DK, etc.

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is broken.

Yet if I play sPvP and do the same thing, I am punished by losing the capture circle, failing to make use of our 2v1 which then means we are 3v4 the rest of the map, etc, and conversely my opponent is rewarded by the flipside of those things for outplaying me. And that risk vs reward is the basis for balance in a game, which is missing from WvW in so many aspects and that is one of the reasons it why it died 4+ years ago, not because a few players so bad that they think a weak band-aid like reveal is monstrously unfair to stealth in WvW.

Pretty much this.

Along with the fact that giving good stealth and good mobility to the same class is typically a no-no. This is before we even discuss giving them a counter for the counter.

[Doug.4930]

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@"AsiraasiB.7165" said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is busted.

Its clear by this paragraph alone that you haven't played WvW in a while, or you're grasping at straws because thieves are annoying. With mounts now being in the game, these fights (as rare as they are now) usually only occur in camps/towers/sentries. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It could be argued that stealth in other classes is a bit unbalanced, but one need only look at the population of thieves in WvW to see that they aren't exactly meta in WvW at the moment. So many classes can now do the job a thief can do but better. Why run a deadeye when you can run a longbow soulbeast that does more damage and is uncatchable. Why run a daredevil "brawler" spec when you can run a holo smith? And so on.

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment. I'm not calling for buffs or anything because I understand my own bias, but there's a reason thief is seeing much less play than some of the other elite specs. Because why bother hamstringing yourself by having to avoid towers and sentries when you can just run any other class and have no issues.

[AsiraasiB.7165]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment.

Everything he said but these most def

@the person who said name reveals

1. Thief its self if they hit anything with dmg. So if a thief pops black powder stand in the field and it forces the thief to either; accidental reveal or they attackes u on purpose and still is revealed.. Or they have to waste more initiative and pop another BP and heart seeker/or a utility... Play smart.
2. Dh has lights judgement /spear pf3 justice
3. Warrior has sight beyond sight/on my mark and megabane
4. Rev gaze of darkness
5. Engi analyze\lockon
6. Necro tainted shackles
7. Ranger sic em
8. Wvw has detected and target painter trapsDid i miss any?

Not to mention alot of classes can stealth and disengage or catch up to thieves. Have aoe boons blocks invul ports etc

Thief de been nerf thrice majorly.. DD nerfed. Core been nerfed since launch lol

[bq pd.2148]

there have been alot better times for stealth heavy playing thieves. with less annoying resourcemanagement and without passive marked trigger areas to care for. but for me still nothing else comes close to the potential of a thief in solo roaming and especially now with the portal we are very valueable to tiny havoc groups.sure there are builds that deal more damage, there are ones that can facetank more and there are those that can do both, yet the options you have, the plays you can make with a ton of stealth are enough to compensate it by far IMO.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

God this get tiring. Stealth exist in all mmo type games etc its thief's thing and it's always gonna be thiefs thing and it's not go na be removed from the game or changed much from what it is now. Get over it,except it,learn to counter it and move on.Thank you :)

[kash.9213]

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment.

Everything he said but these most def

@the person who said name reveals

1. Thief its self if they hit anything with dmg. So if a thief pops black powder stand in the field and it forces the thief to either; accidental reveal or they attackes u on purpose and still is revealed.. Or they have to waste more initiative and pop another BP and heart seeker/or a utility... Play smart.
2. Dh has lights judgement /spear pf3 justice
3. Warrior has sight beyond sight/on my mark and megabane
4. Rev gaze of darkness
5. Engi analyze\lockon
6. Necro tainted shackles
7. Ranger sic em
8. Wvw has detected and target painter trapsDid i miss any?

Not to mention alot of classes can stealth and disengage or catch up to thieves. Have aoe boons blocks invul ports etc

Thief de been nerf thrice majorly.. DD nerfed. Core been nerfed since launch lol

No theres 10 whole reveals from 5 classes and necro is core necro shroud so yeah won't be dealing with that reveal so 4/8 classes got something that might actually be available depending on spec/trait. Won't see a ton DH either so basically avoid war engies and rangers otherwise you don't ever see a reveal used. Not exactly many that are available.

You asked for a list and they gave it to you, you didn't stipulate that the list had to be full of snarky narrative instead of just a factual list.

No one should have a problem with perma invis thief unless they're built to be one shot by any class or build who wants their bag, there are actual built in structural and purchasable pve tools to create a counter zone to trait lines and builds if someone wants to sit in one. As a DE, a good bound/shortbow thief who can stay on top of me in any scale fight is the one I'd worry about.

[AsiraasiB.7165]

1. Didnt copy and paste i know my game
2. I know my game cuz i play more then one class
3. In wvw theres way too many chances to disengage or reveal.. U choose to stay and fight your problem.
4. Theres so many ways to counter play stealth which ive already posted.. But here it is again : thieves can reveal themself if u stand in black powder. Or make them waste more initiative or abilities.. Aoe is a pain for stealth and so is dodging. Block, invul etc. Oh and blinds... And if we miss our stealth attack.. Guess what we get a cool down on a already 3 sec stealth...

I run into many engis rangers warriors and core necros in wvw running reveal.. What game do u play?

[Bezerker.2379]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Reveal and marked don't matter to a malicious backstab camper that already stealthed up before you knew they were there.

One sound. PWONG! .. if they are marked (in t3 tower range, encountered a sentry any time within the past 30 seconds, etc), they will not be able to stealth far enough away from you to not see them. They will unstealth and reveal loudly after 2s.

[Clownmug.8357]

@Bezerker.2379 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Reveal and marked don't matter to a malicious backstab camper that already stealthed up before you knew they were there.

One sound. PWONG! .. if they are marked (in t3 tower range, encountered a sentry any time within the past 30 seconds, etc), they will not be able to stealth far enough away from you to not see them. They will unstealth and reveal loudly after 2s.

Uh, they wouldn't be any kind of a camper if they're hanging around enemy towers or sentries, would they?

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Are they? I haven't seen any! Hmmmmmmm...

D:

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

These threats are so annoiying in a time where teef does wet noddle dmg, 1000 possibilities to reveal next to the fact that teef reveals himself during attack (perma invis, just lol) and get one hittet by everything in wvw. You ask why your game mode is dieing? It is bc people like you who arnt interest to learn the game what anet leads to make more and more ez (in a mid term) to ez to play ... just invest the time and get better in the game, believe me feels gud lad.

[lare.5129]

perma-invis ? Why not?I think this is ok. This is thief !Ofc I also myself relog on thief and was try do it and don't have success to get 100% invis uptme ...

@geist.4126 said:Obviously they do. Or what's the reason for putting reveal in the game? There are no traps in spvp.yesterday on pvp mostly each tief use new traps on me. They get fun - why not?

[geist.4126]

@"Doug.4930" said:

Its clear by this paragraph alone that you haven't played WvW in a while, or you're grasping at straws because thieves are annoying. With mounts now being in the game, these fights (as rare as they are now) usually only occur in camps/towers/sentries. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It could be argued that stealth in other classes is a bit unbalanced, but one need only look at the population of thieves in WvW to see that they aren't exactly meta in WvW at the moment. So many classes can now do the job a thief can do but better. Why run a deadeye when you can run a longbow soulbeast that does more damage and is uncatchable. Why run a daredevil "brawler" spec when you can run a holo smith? And so on.

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment. I'm not calling for buffs or anything because I understand my own bias, but there's a reason thief is seeing much less play than some of the other elite specs. Because why bother hamstringing yourself by having to avoid towers and sentries when you can just run any other class and have no issues.

Stop the stupid derailing with the mount argument.A typical fight vs. thieves is:I'm able to pressure him -> he runs (way higher mobility) and resets or stealthes and resets -> the fight starts new (I basically one the first encounter for nothing) -> his cooldowns mostly are way lower than mine because "Energy" is a better resource than any in this game. If I pressure him again the same cycle starts from a new.If he sees that he cannot win while I run after him he is on his mount way faster than me, because his combat ends in the first seconds he enters stealth - my mount skill is still not usable to that point.And no. This fights are all over the map and no #2 thieves are still on the top3 roaming builds. At least on EU tier 1, tier 3 and tier 5 (where I play on a daily basis)

[geist.4126]

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:He copy pasted from gw2 list with disregarding that only certain specs had access not all revs/necro specs etc and it started with him saying there are so many reveals no one could ever complain about perma stealth which I could care less about thiefs but w/e.

The list exactly shows the problem.Builds with access to stealth by profession for itself (not counting smoke field blasts and runes)

• Engineer
• Scrapper
• Holosmith
• Ranger
• Druid
• Souldbeast
• Mesmer
• Mirage
• Chronomancer
• Thief
• Daredevil
• Deadeye

Builds with access to reveal by profession

• Necromancer
• Dragonhunter
• Herald
• Ranger
• Druid
• Soulbeast

Traps are a not-working option because of a) the obvious animation, b) the cast time, c) the low range, d) the supply cost, e) the short time the trap is active and the reveal is active. If the traps would cost less, the area was bigger and the reveal effect would be effective for 60s it still wouldn't be a good option to fight stealth - except for "capping a node" which is useless in most cases in wvw.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@geist.4126 said:

@"Doug.4930" said:

Its clear by this paragraph alone that you haven't played WvW in a while, or you're grasping at straws because thieves are annoying. With mounts now being in the game, these fights (as rare as they are now) usually only occur in camps/towers/sentries. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It could be argued that stealth in other classes is a bit unbalanced, but one need only look at the population of thieves in WvW to see that they aren't exactly meta in WvW at the moment. So many classes can now do the job a thief can do but better. Why run a deadeye when you can run a longbow soulbeast that does more damage and is uncatchable. Why run a daredevil "brawler" spec when you can run a holo smith? And so on.

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment. I'm not calling for buffs or anything because I understand my own bias, but there's a reason thief is seeing much less play than some of the other elite specs. Because why bother hamstringing yourself by having to avoid towers and sentries when you can just run any other class and have no issues.

Stop the stupid derailing with the mount argument.Kinda funny you saying this, since you bring up mounts later.A typical fight vs. thieves is:I'm able to pressure him -> he runs (way higher mobility) and resets or stealthes and resets -> the fight starts new (I basically one the first encounter for nothing)This is not unique to thieves, or to classes, but is a player mentality. Holo, ranger, mesmer, and warrior players all do this kind of stuff. Why focus on thieves, when we're far from the only players fighting in an "unfair" way?his cooldowns mostly are way lower than mine because "Energy" is a better resource than any in this game.We have a universal cooldown that is shared between all skills, and between both weaponsets. There's pros and cons to both systems, honestly.If he sees that he cannot win while I run after him he is on his mount way faster than meAgain, not sure how this is anything unique to thieves. Literally everyone uses mounts to avoid fights they can't win these days, why you calling thieves out for something you yourself are likely doing?because his combat ends in the first seconds he enters stealth - my mount skill is still not usable to that point.No idea where you get this from, the ooc rules apply to thieves just like anyone else, and unless you have long lasting condis or guards keeping you in combat you will go ooc at the same time as the thief. This kinda shows you don't play the class tbh.And no. This fights are all over the map and no #2 thieves are still on the top3 roaming builds. At least on EU tier 1, tier 3 and tier 5 (where I play on a daily basis)We're not as underpowered as some say, but we're not as OP as others say. If you were here for the HoT cycle of the game, thief started out one of the worst classes in PvP to the point people would AFK until you rerolled, and it ended being one of the best towards the end of the cycle after the other elite specs were brought in line. Virtually nothing was changed about thief in that time, in fact it was nerfed in terms of endurance gain. You can't consider thief in a vacuum, you have to look at what it's competing with.

[Sylosi.6503]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@"AsiraasiB.7165" said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is busted.

Its clear by this paragraph alone that you haven't played WvW in a while, or you're grasping at straws because thieves are annoying. With mounts now being in the game, these fights (as rare as they are now) usually only occur in camps/towers/sentries. So if the thief decided to be a coward and flee, it usually means that they've given up a tower/camp/sentry or left their teammates in the lurch. It could be argued that stealth in other classes is a bit unbalanced, but one need only look at the population of thieves in WvW to see that they aren't exactly meta in WvW at the moment. So many classes can now do the job a thief can do but better. Why run a deadeye when you can run a longbow soulbeast that does more damage and is uncatchable. Why run a daredevil "brawler" spec when you can run a holo smith? And so on.

Try actually roaming with a thief in WvW at the moment. I'm not calling for buffs or anything because I understand my own bias, but there's a reason thief is seeing much less play than some of the other elite specs. Because why bother hamstringing yourself by having to avoid towers and sentries when you can just run any other class and have no issues..

It's clear by the above you have a rather large thief shaped chip on your shoulder.

My post was about stealth as an OP mechanic in WvW and how the only meaningful balance to it is provided in PvP by conquest, which applies to all classes that have access to that, not just thief.

It applies to any build that can abuse it. So for example long ago I sometimes played a silly GS/Staff druid build in WvW that used the trait that lowered your cooldown of the skill first used after weapon swap, so it was pretty much uncatchable and completely broke the concept of risk vs reward. And of course it was not just that trait and being able to abuse ancestral grace / swoop for movement, it was that it had stealth with smokescale and stealth on leaving celestial avatar.

Why would I care about sentries or camps in WvW? The game mode does not function in any meaningful way as a competition (see - population/coverage), that is one of the reasons it is dead. Then even if I was dumb enough to think it mattered, my impact on a 24/7 game with hundreds of players from a couple of hours of roaming would be irrelevant. If I was actually silly enough to care about PPT then I'd tag up as that is by far the biggest contribution a player can make in that regard. And no, most of my fights when I bother to play this game are not over things like camps, if you spend most of your time flipping camps, sentries, etc than that says more about you than anything else.

As for the state of thief, now it isn't as faceroll OP as a roamer as it once was, but if you think it is weak or even mediocre as a roamer that says more about you than anything else. Nor does the state of it nor any other class with stealth make a difference, in WvW stealth is a poorly designed OP mechanic whether that is on some broken Holo build or something much weaker.

In regard to the mounts, putting aside the sheer straw clutching of that, the amusing thing is it has made stealth even more OP in relative terms, because it weakened the other big thing for running off when you are losing or having control over when to engage - high mobility, stealth also makes dismounting people much, much easier.

Oh as for longbow soulbeast, same thing, long range pew-pew damage is much more balanced in PvP where there is much more opportunity to LOS, much more focus on fighting over capture points, etc than the far more open WvW, where players spend most of their time not contesting a capture point, etc

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@SoV.5139 said:

@Sylosi.6503 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:This whole post is why this game is dying. Anet sees posts like this, sympathizes and then adheres their cries.

Instead of encouraging ppl to l2p..

With the amount of reveals in this game from traits or utilities, wvw having towers and guards reveals, anet giving pretty much all of thieves weps damage to reveal... I dont understand these threads...

Not to mention thief no longer has traps, so no trapper runes... Meaning they have to use pure initiative to stay invisible.. And somehow damage you, with no more initiative btw... And then use more initiative to stay invisible.. And not get revealed by u or tower or guards etc...Plz explain

If you don't understand why invisibility is OP in open world type PvP then it is you that needs to learn to play. It is the same in pretty much every game, even ones that have far more counters than in GW2.

When I play ESO and want ez-mode when I go roaming, you know what two classes I play, magsorc because mobility like stealth is OP in these game modes or I play nightblade because of stealth.

And to put GW2's pitiful reveal in perspective, in ESO every single class has access to reveal skills that can simply be slotted in on your bar (in any build if you want), then AOE skills reveal you (in game where there are no cooldowns so AOE can be spammed) and then detect pots on top of that. And guess what it is still faceroll OP even then, I can do things on my nightblade that I could only dream of on my necro, DK, etc.

Stealth (at least the typical full out invis) simply does not work as a balanced mechanic in things like WvW. If I play my thief in WvW and start losing a fight, then the vast majority of the time if I want I can disengage that fight, yet I am not punished for playing poorly, nor is the chap I am fighting rewarded for outplaying me, that is broken.

Yet if I play sPvP and do the same thing, I am punished by losing the capture circle, failing to make use of our 2v1 which then means we are 3v4 the rest of the map, etc, and conversely my opponent is rewarded by the flipside of those things for outplaying me. And that risk vs reward is the basis for balance in a game, which is missing from WvW in so many aspects and that is one of the reasons it why it died 4+ years ago, not because a few players so bad that they think a weak band-aid like reveal is monstrously unfair to stealth in WvW.

Pretty much this.

Along with the fact that giving good stealth and good mobility to the same class is typically a no-no. This is before we even discuss giving them a counter for the counter.

Rangers and engie have good stealth (if they wanted) along with good mobility yet they have the sustain of warriors.

[Turk.5460]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:well, easy to fix: remove stealth from the game.

What buffs to Thief do you propose as a trade off for removing a huge portion of their mitigation?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:well, easy to fix: remove stealth from the game.

What buffs to Thief do you propose as a trade off for removing a huge portion of their mitigation?

Invul, stab, blocks, clones, resistance