Alliances will not bring players and guilds back to WvW

[kash.9213]

In older games I knew every guild and I knew everyone on my servers, after all these years I only know a few guilds and all the pubs in our match up, kind of. There's nothing popping off in the core maps to connect our mode to the core world, no announcement of matchup victories anywhere, no npc chatter, and no celebration and really no change to any player community. Mist gear looks like plastic toys so we have half dead matchups when new expansions and episodes come out and no tone or aesthetic update to connect our maps to the rest of the world. If there's not going to be an open world pvp version of the mega server old and new players still need to be interested in what's going on or at least in the trash talk and wanting to look up streams of fights they missed or heard of.

I like working on my build in this game but I still remember every server wide battle or guild vs guild siege in Starwars Galaxies and Age of Conan and there are nights in WvW were I space out running around the map doing stuff until I try to find a reason not to log off when I see no one's really into it after prime time fizzles out. Maybe Alliances could do something for coverage spread and coordination but it's not going to be what draws people into logging on every day to see what's up and want to be a part of the games story.

[hunkamania.7561]

Population/skill balance/rewards

Those 3 things need to be fixed before people even consider coming back to wvw like myself

[XenesisII.1540]

Alliances is just going to even out the pug population, namely a server like BG will finally be spread out and on the level with everyone else. It's just a different way of doing current links, it's not going to magically make wvw day one good on population, it's not even going to take in the factor of time zones when making the worlds, I don't know why people keep tying other stuff to alliances. Coverage problems will still be a problem as before.

There's no expansion coming for at least another year, if at all, because they already committed to another season of living story so that will fill in that time.

The class meta stinks, Tank healer damage mobility balance, what's that? And yes it has changed a bit from just firebrand scourge rev to also warriors and scrappers, cause every time I go into a fight now it's trying to find those classes that won't be hitting 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0, or 10-100% in a fight and not waste my burst. Boons vs corruption vs high damage stinks. Keep pumping all your boons, throw out your corruptions with your high damage aoes and hope something dies.

The ppt game needs to be tweaked, refreshed, because the current ppt game play is this, take a zerg, hit a t0 or t1, if you get scouted and defenders respond or you wiped, immediately hop to another quiet map and repeat, if you have a blob run over everything. This is the most boring garbage ppting game play, I don't want to map hop every 10 mins to avoid fights and taking empty buildings(and I don't), I want to sit on a map for 2 hours and fight over stuff, have imaginary rivalries with my enemies that I fought a few times over that period. Now whether or not this is because t2-3 objectives are too hard to take, too much siege, players are too lazy, players are too scared to fight and wipe, players really just want to ppt easy stuff for lord bags, who knows, but the map hopping ppting paper towers is as mind numbing boring as ktraining in frostgorge.

With the current population they're going to have to reduce tiers, with the alliance they will have to reduce worlds to like 9, and frankly at this point for most times of the day there's too many maps available to jump around. One thing to get more focus front lines is either reduce the amount of maps which is awkward with home maps, or implement some sort of lattice system(like planetside 1) where you need to capture certain objectives to access the next one, or lock out maps for a period when you fully capture it(like warhammer online), but knowing how lazy wvw players are that probably wouldn't even work at this point.

Alliances will bring back people I'm sure, just so they can experience the effects of the change, same thing happened with links, but I doubt it'll ever get back to 2012 2013 days. That shipped sailed, anet also missed the chance to capitalize on gvg stuff back then.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

I highly doubt alliances will bring many guilds back.. if at all. Perhaps if Gw 3 was announced and the alliance system was part of that.. maybe then it might be different.

All they need to do now to mimic a pseudo-alliance system is eliminate the bottom 2 Tiers and have everyone join T1 & T2.

[Warkind.6745]

Given how every other content drop or overhaul was accompanied with some kind of problem or strife, it's probably better if they never release alliances.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@hunkamania.7561 said:Population/skill balance/rewards

Those 3 things need to be fixed before people even consider coming back to wvw like myself

kind of funny you're saying population should be fixed before a fix comes to... population. which is supposedly what world restructuring is.also you still want more rewards? after everything they've added? its never ending isn't it.

[Diku.2546]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"hunkamania.7561" said:Population/skill balance/rewards

Those 3 things need to be fixed before people even consider coming back to wvw like myself

kind of funny you're saying population should be fixed before a fix comes to... population. which is supposedly what world restructuring is.also you still want more rewards? after everything they've added? its never ending isn't it.

---

Match-Ups need to be balanced & by player's choice...while allowing for huge population size differences between teams.

---

I think what hunkamania.7561...meant was the impact that having an "over-stacked" server population tends to have upon Match-Ups.

Currently...the Match-Up system...typically encourages the 800-pound Gorilla in the room scenario.

Since GW2 launched...having an over-stacked server population has been proven to be a consistent factor in being able to hold the #1 Ranked WvW for each region...which has lead to some very predictable Match-Up conclusions over the years...which is where we are now...as players are left bored & despondent to ALL WvW #1 Ranked Server announcements or proclamations...imho

Players will actively game the system.

Over-stacking a server's population has been a highly successful & proven strategy that will allow any server to gain a winning advantage...if they're able to achieve & maintain a huge base of WvW players...given our current Match-Up system.

I can only think of one server that would "infamously" qualify, but will not name them to keep this thread positive & clean.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[hunkamania.7561]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:Population/skill balance/rewards

Those 3 things need to be fixed before people even consider coming back to wvw like myself

kind of funny you're saying population should be fixed before a fix comes to... population. which is supposedly what world restructuring is.also you still want more rewards? after everything they've added? its never ending isn't it.

Rewards are the worst in any game mode don't white Knight plz. Duh on the alliance fixing the population but that's assuming these guys get it right which is unlikely with their wvw track record. I don't have any faith

[Arzurag.7506]

The alliance-system won´t fix anything, which wvw is currently suffering to.Population can´t be balanced without ripping guilds and friends that want to play with each other, apart.Rewards need to have some meaning and should require reasonable effort to aquire.A good step in the right direction was the pip-system, how about a pass-system now ? Seasons ? Look what works for other pvp-games, to keep their players entertained and try to introdcuce it into the game-mode.

Though, despite having some hope left, it might as well be too late at this point, to change anything.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@hunkamania.7561 said:Rewards are the worst in any game mode don't white Knight plz. Duh on the alliance fixing the population but that's assuming these guys get it right which is unlikely with their wvw track record. I don't have any faith

lol i'm not saying the rewards are good. i'm saying that they added a ton and why would you want more? do you play for rewards? I play for kills.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Diku.2546 said:snips

i'm not going to read anything you say because of the way you write posts. I find it annoying.

[Djamonja.6453]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Diku.2546 said:snips

i'm not going to read anything you say because of the way you write posts. I find it annoying.

Yes, we can tell from each of your posts you're just here to troll.

[Acheron.4731]

@Sovereign.1093 said:how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

I think they could've really used their front page a LOT better. I get so tired of ANET streaming schedule for the week of _____. Would it hurt to advertise action in WvW there week to week? I feel it should've always been there or at least 'something' to keep people interested in the game and let people know they are working on 'anything'

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Warlord.9074 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Honestly, if you're not playing for the fun of playing at this point, alliances will change nothing.

Ditto, problem is no amount of rewards are going to make players come back. WvW game mode content and fun are generated by the players themselves.

That's the big one.Fact is the game mode isn't fun. The balance is horrid and new elites are just downright unfun to play as and against in most cases. There's no evolving meta because the optima, like PvE are very-obviously defined. People who come to PvP experiences do not look for a solvable problem.

Alliances as a system don't really do much to solve their intended problem, anyways. Up to 1000 players is pretty much the entirety of say, BG's active playerbase , so the stacking mentality doesn't really change much when people will just shuffle and optimize their groups, and there's pretty much zero merit to running small groups/havoc anymore with how punishing it is and how effective and rewarding ktraining is.

There's nothing that can fix WvW short of completely scrapping most of the new gameplay content added since 2015, including the new stat combos, HoT armor stats, elite specs, and so on. They had a killer idea originally, but many facets of the game's design since then fundamentally contradict what WvW was intended to provide and fulfill as an experience.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Honestly, if you're not playing for the fun of playing at this point, alliances will change nothing.

I played as long as my guild played. Only reason I held on the last 6 months or so. GL moved on as well as several of the regulars so I did as well. Thought about finding a new guild to run with. Third guild to leave game. Three strikes and I'm out as well.

Too many promises unfulfilled. Too many chances given. Saw a blurb on discord about them going the mobile route again. Slap in the face if true.

[Ultramex.1506]

Maybe not all of them but some definitely will. However, i don't think anyone is working on it for the past few months.

[Brother.1504]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Alliance isn't a magical fix though I agree some people do believe that.Also, statistically the number of return players are few. MMORPG just isn't a game most people would come back to when they quit. It is hard to start everything again, it is even harder when you got no familiar place to return to.

I’d argue that gw2 is one of the easiest mmorpgs to return to after a break. As far as alliances fixing all our issues real or imagined, obviously that won’t happen. But in my opinion, any developer attention for competitive play is welcome.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Just wait until the 30th. Then all our doom and gloom predictions will be confirmed. Wvw isnt going to make a comeback.

[hunkamania.7561]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@hunkamania.7561 said:Rewards are the worst in any game mode don't white Knight plz. Duh on the alliance fixing the population but that's assuming these guys get it right which is unlikely with their wvw track record. I don't have any faith

lol i'm not saying the rewards are good. i'm saying that they added a ton and why would you want more? do you play for rewards? I play for kills.

No I don't I want more rewards. I want more rewards for new players to play the game and grow the game mode.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@hunkamania.7561 said:No I don't I want more rewards. I want more rewards for new players to play the game and grow the game mode.

oh lol. I guess that makes sense. well... idk. i'm not entirely sure rewards equals retention if the player doesn't like the mode or has some issue with it. not saying it wouldn't work for some, maybe even a lot, but it feels like a weak substitute for actual improvements. which brings us back to the track record... still tho you could boost rewards sky high and it wouldn't mean a thing if some basic problems aren't solved.

[crepuscular.9047]

i see alliance may fix the population problem

but it will not fix the underlying issue, WHY WvWers quit the game mode in the first place

the top 3 issues i see are:

1. class balance / metaNoody's recent video discussing the most famous WvW guilds, a lot of mentions disbanded cos they did not like the new metas

2. the rewards, most PvE players do not find WvW rewarding, they want their goldjust the World Boss Rush event shows, no matter how boring, how outdated a content is, if you put out enough rewards, people will flock to itthe current Champion Rush event, i dont think I've seen map chats had been so active since early days of GW2, unless it there was a map daily event on

3. the latency; I think most players outside NA / EU region have the same experienceyou see a giant blob fight, charge in but your skills arent casting, and your enemies charges at you and you see them running past you with lots of red circles on the flooryou run away thinking your are safe, minutes later you find yourself dead and rubberbanded back to where you were standing

[starlinvf.1358]

@Cambeleg.7632 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

1. Worth rewards for incentivizing new players to join. Yes, it's a "poor" reason, but let face it: many players want their spent time rewarded fairly.

2. Real balance between teams. Call 'em servers, alliances, gangs... whatever... but change the game mode for incentivizing the balance and avoid third teams to be stomped without mercy 'cos lack of interest or feeling of helplessness 'cos not having enough coverage/population.

3. Make structures really valuable, that people really learn it's important to attack/defend/capture.

4. Balance the value of PPK (Points per kills) and PPT (Points per tick). WvW is a massive fight and siege activity field; both scoring systems should be fairly balanced, avoiding the manipulation of matchups going up and down in the leaderboard. Every server should play both systems in a healthy way, and be rewarded 'cos this reason.

5. Give a purpose to the game mode, not only the "just for the love of big battles". Give it something deeper, that offers a real motivation and repercussion.

6. Offer places for GvGs and duels where a) deaths don't cause drops in the score and b) they can happen without bothering and being bothered. If so, give them an own game mode where they can enjoy this.

7. Make roaming valuable again. This includes making guilds really a thing for the game mode, not only a nice tag and lot of buffs.

8. STOP promoting the bandwagoning, this been one of the biggest cancers in the game mode.

9. Rework the structure upgrades. Some of them killed good part of the strategy (spy globes, for example).

10. Fix the [censored] lag that is caused in Stonemist, for the sake of...

The problem with making it reward centric is you end up encouraging players to "beat the system". PvP has this problem right now, as match manipulation does happen. Too much of this game had tried to overcompensate its problems by instituting bigger rewards.... and in nearly all cases, it simply attracted PvEer's looking for an easy path to rewards, and quickly give up when they realize it takes effort to accomplish anything.

If you don't fix the fundamental problem with the game play, you need ever increasing rewards to keep players feeling like they getting somewhere. Its everything wrong modern skinner box design, but without the cover of something half way entertaining to obscure it from player perception. If the game play itself isn't at least marginally entertaining, or fails to be deceptive in its methods, players will call it out. Which is exactly why so many MMOs in the last decade died within 2 years of launch. +

And looking at the ones that managed to bounce back, it needs a substantial amount of investment and course correction to recover from those kinds of losses.

[Vayne.8563]

I don't think people will come back largely either but...the large reason I don't bring my PvE guild into more WvW events is because too many people in my guild aren't on my server which was closed for a long time. This is just bad businesss. You mean I can't play with my friends? Alliances will fix that or rather, not having servers at all.

My guild is very much my in game community. I'm not going to run content I can't run with everybody because I don't like excluding people. I mean now, the server I'm on is open, but for ages it hasn't been. It's a very frustrating situation for a guild leader.

[enkidu.5937]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Honestly, if you're not playing for the fun of playing at this point, alliances will change nothing.Seems that some ppl just got bored of flipping keeps after 7 years, and now just play for the toxicity.

[Cambeleg.7632]

@"starlinvf.1358" said:The problem with making it reward centric is you end up encouraging players to "beat the system". PvP has this problem right now, as match manipulation does happen. Too much of this game had tried to overcompensate its problems by instituting bigger rewards.... and in nearly all cases, it simply attracted PvEer's looking for an easy path to rewards, and quickly give up when they realize it takes effort to accomplish anything.

If you don't fix the fundamental problem with the game play, you need ever increasing rewards to keep players feeling like they getting somewhere. Its everything wrong modern skinner box design, but without the cover of something half way entertaining to obscure it from player perception. If the game play itself isn't at least marginally entertaining, or fails to be deceptive in its methods, players will call it out. Which is exactly why so many MMOs in the last decade died within 2 years of launch. +

And looking at the ones that managed to bounce back, it needs a substantial amount of investment and course correction to recover from those kinds of losses.

Nonononono... careful, I didn't say rewards must be the main and priority point about playing WvW. Of course this can't be the main focus, but it's true that rewards need to be enough good for making worth this invested time.

Obviously, the main focus to fix goes directly into the reason why people play and keep playing the game mode, the background, possible consequences about winning and/or losing, etc.