Core revenant doesn't have any ranged condition damage options at all.

[magic fly.2041]

As the title says, there's no way to do anything condition damage related from range unless you go renegade.

This is extremely limiting and no other profession has this issue.I want to use condition damage without going renegade because there's some other trait line I'd like to use instead, but because of this issue I'm basically hamstringing myself to melee range only if I did that.

Every single profession has, in it's core kit, a weapon for ranged damage and one for condition damage.With just the core set:Warrior has rifle and bow.Necro has staff and axe and scepter.Engineer has pistols and rifles and grenade kits.Thief has shortbow, dual pistols, and pistol+dagger.Mesmer has numerous options for both condition and power at a range.Ranger has axe, off-hand dagger and torch, shortbow, and longbow to give plenty of great options for both power and condition.Elementalist can do power or condition regardless of what core weapon they use. (Which is really cool. )Guardian has scepter and torch. Scepter might not be doing condition damage on it's own, but between torch, the burn virtue, and many other things you can do condition damage at range without too much trouble.

Last and least of all:Revenant in it's core kit has...nothing for ranged condition damage. Absolutely nothing. I mean, I guess you can use temporal rift every 15 seconds if you'd like, or do mediocre damage with a hammer instead.

[ollbirtan.2915]

While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

That isn’t nearly enough to be consider actual range condi damage. And hammer is too slow to make good use of rampant vex

[starlinvf.1358]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

That isn’t nearly enough to be consider actual range condi damage. And hammer is too slow to make good use of rampant vex

Just because its not BIS Meta doesn't mean its not doing the thing its ACTUALLY doing.

But the bigger problem here is that the whole argument is moot, since no one was ever meant to play Core Rev past leveling. Its fundamentally designed to have an Espec, getting nearly half of its build concept from Espec trait choices.

[magic fly.2041]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

That isn’t nearly enough to be consider actual range condi damage. And hammer is too slow to make good use of rampant vex

Just because its not BIS Meta doesn't mean its not doing the thing its ACTUALLY doing.

I don't care about BIS meta and I also don't care about the blame-games to be found in raids so I avoid raids like the plague(in any game, not just gw2), but even I can see there's no viable way to make conditions work on a hammer.

Here's why:33% chance on a crit to do 3 seconds of torment doesn't transform every weapon into a condition weapon. If it was strong enough to turn a power weapon into a condition weapon, then the true condition weapons would become overpowered with said trait.So maybe you do a tiny bit of torment on 1 out of every 8 attacks at almost half the duration of the torment from a mace's auto-attack. It's basically worth about 0.4 seconds or less of torment each time you attack.

Phase smash can do one single stack of torment every 8 seconds. The poison trait has an internal cooldown and will only affect one target of your attack.

You can literally do more condition damage than that at a range by equipping an off-hand axe and using temporal rift once every 15 seconds. I'm not even kidding.

From this I can conclude that hammer is not a condition damage weapon. It can apply conditions, and nobody's denying that, but a single drop of water is in no way equivalent to a thunderstorm so it's pointless to compare.

@starlinvf.1358 said:

But the bigger problem here is that the whole argument is moot, since no one was ever meant to play Core Rev past leveling. Its fundamentally designed to have an Espec, getting nearly half of its build concept from Espec trait choices.

That's basically the problem I am complaining about, and this statement essentially translates to mean "the problem exists, so therefore arguments indicating there's a problem are invalid" which doesn't make much sense.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Unfortunately condi Revenant was designed upon HoT release to be a strictly close-range fighter. Mallyx's kit supports this as its damage excels primarily in melee combat, and from my perspective ANet attempted to supplement this by giving some range on skills like mace 2/3, axe 5, Banish Enchantment, Elemental Blast, and then ways of closing the gap as well. Would I like a core ranged condi weapon? Absolutely, but the core legends don't really have any inherent synergy with this (Shiro arguably the most due to kite potential), so it would be a bit of an awkward fit. Your damage would have to be largely reliant on just your weapon skills, or sitting in melee range to get your Embrace the Darkness procs.

[Aeolus.3615]

If this is for pve my condi renegade/mallyx is doing fine :/ 6-8k torment ticks...

On wvw it’s fine on group play, not a gimmick to carry still requires lot of effort.

[Shao.7236]

Even Renegade is a poor condition alternative when it goes outside of PVE, bow is more like an hybrid as well as the renegade traits that helps you achieve it. Chosen one damage type really cuts of the damage potential.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Shao.7236 said:Even Renegade is a poor condition alternative when it goes outside of PVE, bow is more like an hybrid as well as the renegade traits that helps you achieve it. Chosen one damage type really cuts of the damage potential.

My sets on renegade are marshal or carrion, most time swap in and out between these stats.

[Shao.7236]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Even Renegade is a poor condition alternative when it goes outside of PVE, bow is more like an hybrid as well as the renegade traits that helps you achieve it. Chosen one damage type really cuts of the damage potential.

My sets on renegade are marshal or carrion, most time swap in and out between these stats.

Marshal was the first stats I picked for Renegade and I would honestly stick to it given the benefits of how the healing scales very well on Kalla skills and power even without precision still does a lot of damage with Kalla elite.

[Doto.6357]

Your best ranged skill as core condi is using axe four to get into melee range :)

[Knighthonor.4061]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

You serious? Just checking

[Knighthonor.4061]

Revenant class was poorly designed. And now we waiting for the updates to come in yet realistic the updates to the whole game are slow as a whole right now. So yeah.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Aeolus.3615 said:If this is for pve my condi renegade/mallyx is doing fine :/ 6-8k torment ticks...

On wvw it’s fine on group play, not a gimmick to carry still requires lot of effort.

Renegade is an Elite spec not core.

[draxynnic.3719]

@magic fly.2041 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While I agree somewhat, technically there is access to ranged condi for core rev - Just use Hammer, Corruption Rampant Vex gives you torment on crit --- then trait Venom enchacements for poison, and Abyssal Chill for more torment and -omg- actual synergy with Phase Smash from Hammer

That isn’t nearly enough to be consider actual range condi damage. And hammer is too slow to make good use of rampant vex

Just because its not BIS Meta doesn't mean its not doing the thing its ACTUALLY doing.

I don't care about BIS meta and I also don't care about the blame-games to be found in raids so I avoid raids like the plague(in any game, not just gw2), but even I can see there's no viable way to make conditions work on a hammer.

Here's why:33% chance on a crit to do 3 seconds of torment doesn't transform every weapon into a condition weapon. If it was strong enough to turn a power weapon into a condition weapon, then the true condition weapons would become overpowered with said trait.So maybe you do a tiny bit of torment on 1 out of every 8 attacks at almost half the duration of the torment from a mace's auto-attack. It's basically worth about 0.4 seconds or less of torment each time you attack.

Phase smash can do one single stack of torment every 8 seconds. The poison trait has an internal cooldown and will only affect one target of your attack.

You can literally do more condition damage than that at a range by equipping an off-hand axe and using temporal rift once every 15 seconds. I'm not even kidding.

From this I can conclude that hammer is not a condition damage weapon. It can apply conditions, and nobody's denying that, but a single drop of water is in no way equivalent to a thunderstorm so it's pointless to compare.

Pretty much this. To add to it, hammer particularly works poorly with the Corruption traitline because of its slow attack rate. Hammer attacks are usually sometime around one attack every 1.25 seconds. At that rate, even at 100% crit chance (which requires stat investments you might prefer to make elsewhere on a condi build, especially outside of PvE) Rampant Vex is going to struggle to maintain even one Torment stack on any one target without the benefit of Quickness or Expertise.

Which is why sword tends to be preferred as the least bad option for an alternate weapon for condi renegades: it has more opportunity to proc Rampant Vex due to a higher attack rate, and more chill application for Abyssal Chill.

Largely, this is a problem from rev's original design of no weapon swaps, but there was a reason that was a poor fit (although mace/axe works better as the sole weapon set than most). However, I think it is fair to say that every build should have the option to bring a ranged weapon that works with their build, for those times when melee just isn't viable. It's true that most revenant stuff is designed to work best when in melee or at least close to it, but this is broadly true of the other soldier professions as well, and both of those still have ranged weapons that suit all their builds (there's no explicit condi ranged weapon for a Guardian, but apart from Tome of Justice most Guardian condition damage comes from Justice passive procs anyway) as opposed to core rev only having one, and that one being pretty much only useful for power despite revenant clearly being designed to have condition builds. There's really no good reason why core revenant shouldn't have a ranged condition weapon, except that it was originally designed as a no-weaponswap profession, and making a new set of weapon skills for a ranged condition weapon (even a one-handed one) costs resources. Without such a weapon, it becomes something that's going to need to be considered with any future revenant elite specialisation, especially ones that are intended to be condition-based.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:If this is for pve my condi renegade/mallyx is doing fine :/ 6-8k torment ticks...

On wvw it’s fine on group play, not a gimmick to carry still requires lot of effort.

Renegade is an Elite spec not core.

Hehe good point, and that can be a problem just like we talked in other thread, any other range main hand combination will only have sword or axe as secondary since will end has elite spec, and I would not like to have rev GS in range gimmick...

Rev core lacks indeed 1 more core range weapon, an scepter would be nice imo.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:If this is for pve my condi renegade/mallyx is doing fine :/ 6-8k torment ticks...

On wvw it’s fine on group play, not a gimmick to carry still requires lot of effort.

Renegade is an Elite spec not core.

Hehe good point, and that can be a problem just like we talked in other thread, any other range main hand combination will only have sword or axe as secondary since will end has elite spec, and I would not like to have rev GS in range gimmick...

Rev core lacks indeed 1 more core range weapon, an scepter would be nice imo.

Honestly, I don't think that's so unreasonable.

Shackling Wave and Temporal Rift are both decent control options even at range. The teleports are more melee-oriented, but I could see them being used tactically even on a ranged weapon (especially if the ranged weapon is one that's still suitable for use in close), or used to close a gap before switching to mace.

You can look at guardian offhands as an example - they're set up so that they do still give you something if you're taking a standoff approach with scepter, but you'll definitely get more out of them if you go into melee.

Herald shield, meanwhile, has nothing on it that points to it being a melee weapon. 'Course, it's hardly the best offhand in the game, but nevertheless...

[Thornwolf.9721]

Just give us scepter/focus and call it good? For a core condi weapon set its good enough, it is thematic for occultists and people who practice ancient forbidden magics, or hell even dagger focus where we slash the air sending energy slashes at our foes from range.

We need one more core weapon set for ranged condi, its not like we are getting ANYTHING other than a role that is not filled but is technically filled on EVERY other class and would offer us an alternative that doesn't require and elite spec. (This also frees them up when it comes time to roll out the next elite spec, which means that they needn't worry about what we lack and more about what sounds cool/fun.)

[Kain Francois.4328]

THROWING. DAGGERS.

ANET should consider adding them to Rev as a single-target condi ranged weapon.

Besides, Shortbow isn't really a condi weapon. It's a hybrid weapon, just like how Renegade is a hybrid spec.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Just add more chill on hammer honestly and you would have somewhat of a possible condi weapon.A nice trait on mallyx would also bee bleed on weakness, so they could dish out more condis with hammer or jalis.

[Virdo.1540]

maybe theyll make greatsword in the next specialisation to something like the Necro Axe but with a bit bleeding or torment

[magic fly.2041]

@Virdo.1540 said:maybe theyll make greatsword in the next specialisation to something like the Necro Axe but with a bit bleeding or torment

Having to spec into an elite specialization just to be able to do condition damage at a range is the problem.

Adding another elite specialization will not change that and the problem will still exist.

(I was disappointed to learn that weapons were tied to specs when I got the expansions. This is restrictive on what I can make my character do. Right now I really want a herald with a shortbow.)

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Virdo.1540 said:maybe theyll make greatsword in the next specialisation to something like the Necro Axe but with a bit bleeding or torment

We need a core ranged option for condi, not another E-spec trying to fill a gap while making the others more glaring.

[Virdo.1540]

sry forgot in about core-thing

maybe we get an GS anyway without spec

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Gimme rifle with trident skills (but no trident mechanic).Revenant is coming off warrior after all and warriors could use rifle.