Yes,this just happened

[TheGrimm.5624]

That's the problem with these threads, if ANet is going to balance with glass cannon in mind it going to turn out all the worse.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@KrHome.1920 said:Wild Strike has a 0.65 multplier and hits you for 4k.

Did you play an ambient creature or what? Or that deadeye is the zerkiest zerker of all zerkers and dies in a sneeze.

Pro-tipp: at spawn speak to the gear seller and buy some soldier gear. It's the base gear for beginners in wvw (like you seem one to be) since release. That same deadeye will just tickle you when he engages you the next time and you don't have to think about stuff like paying attention after getting marked.

I mean, assuming OP has 2k armor or w/e, bringing it up to 3k armor reduces the damage to 10k? So I guess it gives them a few more seconds but then they can't pressure the DE off them. In a scenario involving multiple players, they would just get ignored while the rest of their team dies.

[Infusion.7149]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:That's the problem with these threads, if ANet is going to balance with glass cannon in mind it going to turn out all the worse.In roaming scenarios it's largely governed by PvP balance, so just pay attention to balance changes in PvP that don't make it to WvW

For example, Rampage elite on warrior was nerfed heavily in PvP recently along with Warrior's Cunning but hasn't been in WvW.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

From yesterday, that damage can be acceptable in PvE, but in WvW... kinda ridiculous...

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Maybe they're complaining about the damage from the mosquito?? Mosquito did more damage to the player than the player did to the mosquito! Sorry OP, but when I opened up that image.. that was the first thing I noticed; Mosquito hits you for 647 using sting flurry.. and your return damage is 571, the mosquito out dps'd you lol.

[XenesisII.1540]

"One shots are just gimmick builds." - Everyone."Let me play professor of combat and write an entire page down on why this class/spec deserves to be doing one shots over other classes." - Everyone."Look at every other broken build but not my own." - Everyone."Nerf every other class but my own." - Everyone."Everyone has the same health pool and sustain tools L2play neob." - Everyone."Anet thinks it's fine, stop complaining." - Everyone."Run armor and it'll only tickle... I run armor and get two shotted instead!" - Rolls eyesCombat continues to be ridiculous, not fun, wvw continues to lose players. - 2019Damage is overtuned and several areas will be looked into for better balance, Q1 2020. - Anet

Lastly, this is a mmorpg, not a mmofps game, if you enjoy one shot combat so much maybe you should be playing apex csgo bf5 r6s instead? Seems pretty stupid to build up an entire game on rpg foundations only to turn it into a fps fragfest in the end game, probably one of the reasons why wvw cannot grow with gw2 pve player base, extreme team defense to extreme damage is so terribad. Why roaming has turned into garbage now evolving to roaming teams instead, never mind the mounts even the "hunters" took their own advice and don't roam on their own. Balancing to the extremes has hurt this game so much, the pvp side has continued to crumble for years. But hey let's continue to hide the broken stuff, cause it's funny.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"XenesisII.1540" said:But hey let's continue to hide the broken stuff, cause it's funny.It's not a matter of hiding it, it's a matter of hoping Anet doesnt break things like usual. Cause we know they probably will. As the vault pic above, 1600 base damage turns into 10x damage. This apply to any class and any skill, 10x is pretty much on the mark fully boosted. Now, a normal person would say "10x?!?!? That's INSANE! Even a crit is just supposed to be 1.5-2.5x!". But Anet will most likely not say that. They will just lower the base damage and ignore the 10x boost, going "voila, fixed!".

Because purity of purpose.

Sometimes its better to hope for status quo.

[Infusion.7149]

GW2 tooltip is based off ~2600 armor target , without crits and before modifiers.Tooltip damage = [number of hits] round[(average weapon strength) Power * (skill-specific coefficient per hit) / (level-based Armor value)]At level 80 it's based off a 2597 armor target.

[kash.9213]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Wild Strike has a 0.65 multplier and hits you for 4k.

Did you play an ambient creature or what? Or that deadeye is the zerkiest zerker of all zerkers and dies in a sneeze.

Pro-tipp: at spawn speak to the gear seller and buy some soldier gear. It's the base gear for beginners in wvw (like you seem one to be) since release. That same deadeye will just tickle you when he engages you the next time and you don't have to think about stuff like paying attention after getting marked.

I mean, assuming OP has 2k armor or w/e, bringing it up to 3k armor reduces the damage to 10k? So I guess it gives them a few more seconds but then they can't pressure the DE off them. In a scenario involving multiple players, they would just get ignored while the rest of their team dies.

OP should only need those few seconds, that's why people adjust their stats for different matchups, you hit a threshold where you can survive an opener and immediately not only respond but counter pressure. OP built to get one shot where no one should be getting one shot and they didn't respond or didn't know what their build could do to respond.

[XenesisII.1540]

Sure, complain about mesmers so they break chronos, but hey keep them 21k backstabs on the low down.

Frankly there's a few specs and classes that could use a good slap down at this point, anets years of neglect for proper balancing is showing quite badly now. I can only hope the balancing next year finally catches some of the stupid outlining specs and their balancing guidelines follow a proper damage to mobility to defense ratio than just hey don't break pve thanks team.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@kash.9213 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Wild Strike has a 0.65 multplier and hits you for 4k.

Did you play an ambient creature or what? Or that deadeye is the zerkiest zerker of all zerkers and dies in a sneeze.

Pro-tipp: at spawn speak to the gear seller and buy some soldier gear. It's the base gear for beginners in wvw (like you seem one to be) since release. That same deadeye will just tickle you when he engages you the next time and you don't have to think about stuff like paying attention after getting marked.

I mean, assuming OP has 2k armor or w/e, bringing it up to 3k armor reduces the damage to 10k? So I guess it gives them a few more seconds but then they can't pressure the DE off them. In a scenario involving multiple players, they would just get ignored while the rest of their team dies.

OP should only need those few seconds, that's why people adjust their stats for different matchups, you hit a threshold where you can survive an opener and immediately not only respond but counter pressure. OP built to get one shot where no one should be getting one shot and they didn't respond or didn't know what their build could do to respond.

I gather that, but none of it involves swapping to a bunch of ptv gear. If one is going to mock OP for dying then fine but let's actually give useful advice.

@Infusion.7149 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Infusion.7149 said:It's probably because you were running no toughness and the enemy had vulnerability on you + might stacks. If it's a deadeye maybe malice stacks. Keep in mind like revs, necros, and eles , thieves also have the +20% damage bonus trait vs targets less than 50% HP which is multiplicative.

The coefficient on malicious backstab (a stealth attack from deadeye) is 2.4 when hitting from behind which is similar to Vault (2.25) which is why staff daredevil is sought after. Given that vault is far more spammable (because it doesn't rely on stealth) and AoE along with Bound (1.75 coefficient because PvP split of 1.33 wasn't brought to WvW), complaining about malicious backstab seems unwarranted.Dagger+pistol thief used to be much more potent but other things power-crept.

The issue with keep/tower/camp bonuses is they stack with ascended food + utility bloodlust so you end up with really lopsided matchups of power vs toughness.That's the great thing about the armistice bastion golems, you can see for yourself the damage output of builds versus a fixed target without those keep/tower/bloodlust buffs.

How can you even bring vault into this? If you choose to faceplant into it, that's nobody's fault.

Not that one can justify the other, anyways.

If he's complaining about the damage, it isn't even the highest consistent damage available to thief. Also the majority of groups run stealth gyro so having a Vault/Bound combo out of stealth is not out of the ordinary , which is what I'm assuming this thread is about (high damage out of stealth).

In a group scenario, you're bound to have a lot of protection and other forms of damage mitigation as well as res's so going down is not that big of a deal. Obvioiously vault is much more effective in group fights due to being more likely to hit something. Apples and oranges here.

But that is neither here or there. Vault is more telegraphed, so it's unfair to compare the skills just by looking at the raw damage.

[XECOR.2814]

Ill just say this. It takes much more skill to play reactively in an extended fight than 1shot wombo combo so people tend to play and defend such builds that allow them to do their rotation while having free exit pass. Its not a matter of cheese its just a difference in skill and people finding enjoyment for themselves at their skill level.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Powercreep at its finest, ladies and gentlemen!

Seriously though, wvw players seem to be more in tune with the state of pvp than the spvp forums.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Most classes can hit harder than this, and once you get a mount you will get hit so rarely by backstab it hardly matters.

[Infusion.7149]

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:

In a group scenario, you're bound to have a lot of protection and other forms of damage mitigation as well as res's so going down is not that big of a deal. Obvioiously vault is much more effective in group fights due to being more likely to hit something. Apples and oranges here.

But that is neither here or there. Vault is more telegraphed, so it's unfair to compare the skills just by looking at the raw damage.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If it was that broken it would have been nerfed in PvP years ago ; the skill really hasn't changed much over the years but we have gained many more defensive options against it.

See the history of the non-deadeye version of Backstab here : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstaband the expanded version here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab/history

If WvW balance was predicated on a handful of one-shot gimmick builds that anyone serious about the game mode is not going to run, it isn't logical. Small scale will always be governed firstly by PvP balance, which is why skills that usually are used in small scale combat should have their PvP splits also applied to WvW. For example any spellbreaker warrior in a squad serious about the game mode is going to be running Winds of Disenchantment not Rampage. You're likely to see Rampage in WvW video montages of solo players but not in group play , similar to the Gun Flame thread posted recently that's essentially a full glass berserker warrior (more or less 100% projectile while on rifle).

In a coming balance pass I expect staff daredevil to be toned down since staff daredevil bunker is a thing in PVP with complaints about the evade frames. Whether it will be gutted similar to chrono remains to be seen, but Cal Cohen seems to have a better grasp of the game than whatever PvE person they had prior. However , similar to how I felt that hitting Lingering Curse was overdoing it when Sand Savant was moved back to 5 targets, it could very well be marginalized. It's highly likely that damage on rev hammer skills with CC on them will be shaved down as well since it's been stated every skill with large damage and CC at the same time will be reevaluated.

This thread seems awfully like a "nerf thief" thread.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Cute number.

From exp. Mesmer is way worse.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Infusion.7149 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:

In a group scenario, you're bound to have a lot of protection and other forms of damage mitigation as well as res's so going down is not that big of a deal. Obvioiously vault is much more effective in group fights due to being more likely to hit something. Apples and oranges here.

But that is neither here or there. Vault is more telegraphed, so it's unfair to compare the skills just by looking at the raw damage.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If it was that broken it would have been nerfed in PvP years ago

Assumes the balance team is competent in any game mode. I think that's a huge assumption. WvW is not PvP.

If WvW balance was predicated on a handful of one-shot gimmick builds that anyone serious about the game mode is not going to run, it isn't logical. Small scale will always be governed firstly by PvP balance, which is why skills that usually are used in small scale combat should have their PvP splits also applied to WvW. For example any spellbreaker warrior in a squad serious about the game mode is going to be running Winds of Disenchantment not Rampage. You're likely to see Rampage in WvW video montages of solo players but not in group play , similar to the Gun Flame thread posted recently that's essentially a full glass berserker warrior (more or less 100% projectile while on rifle).

We see Rampage when a warrior runs solo not because they're not serious about the game or trying to meme, but because they really don't have many choices to begin with.

This thread seems awfully like a "nerf thief" thread.

Thieves are not the only ones capable of massive burst damage. If OP had fell to a rapid fire the thread would be the same. Also I think Daredevil is fine /shrugs, lol.

[Junkpile.7439]

Well at least they should give all classes perma stealth.

[XenesisII.1540]

They really should.

[Mokk.2397]

Stealth will always be broken in this game until either its completely removed during combat or reveal duration's are significantly increased and unbreakable.ANET needs to understand that stealth equates to infinite armour and needs to be treated as such when balancing.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Mokk.2397 said:Stealth will always be broken in this game until either its completely removed during combat or reveal duration's are significantly increased and unbreakable.ANET needs to understand that stealth equates to infinite armour and needs to be treated as such when balancing.Enemies burn just as good when they are seen as when they're not.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I notice people are very binary with condi clear. Either condis don't affect them at all, or they just don't cleanse them at all.

[Mokk.2397]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:Stealth will always be broken in this game until either its completely removed during combat or reveal duration's are significantly increased and

unbreakable

.ANET needs to understand that stealth equates to

infinite

armour and needs to be treated as such when balancing.Enemies burn just as good when they are seen as when they're not.

That makes absolutely no sense . I f you can't target a person in stealth you can hurt that person in stealth .Ergo that person cannot be "burned " as well as person that doesn't have stealth.

[Bezerker.2379]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Stealth will always be broken in this game until either its completely removed during combat or reveal duration's are significantly increased and

unbreakable

.ANET needs to understand that stealth equates to

infinite

armour and needs to be treated as such when balancing.Enemies burn just as good when they are seen as when they're not.

That makes absolutely no sense . I f you can't target a person in stealth you can hurt that person in stealth .Ergo that person

cannot

be "burned " as well as person that doesn't have stealth.

Uhh. You can hit stealthed people. You don't need to target them.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Stealth will always be broken in this game until either its completely removed during combat or reveal duration's are significantly increased and

unbreakable

.ANET needs to understand that stealth equates to

infinite

armour and needs to be treated as such when balancing.Enemies burn just as good when they are seen as when they're not.

That makes absolutely no sense . I f you can't target a person in stealth you can hurt that person in stealth .Ergo that person

cannot

be "burned " as well as person that doesn't have stealth.I will refer to my demonstration in the eternal battlegrounds thread. Not only does he burn in stealth, he is also moad in stealth. Whether we see them beforehand doesnt matter so much.