100 Hours Sunk into Guild Wars 2 (A veteran MMORPG players takeaway)

[Bish.8627]

When I play other MMO's it feels like a race to endgame, GW2 is more enjoying the journey because there is no true endgame. Even if you get into Fractals and Raids there is no endgame there. WvW or PvP are the same. This games more about short term targets, say this week I wanted the Super Adventure Box Boom Box so I farmed that, next I am going to WvW for the week until next reset, then maybe I will do world bosses each day. Some days I just log on to do one world boss my friends do each night and then log off. It's a game where you can put as much or as little as you like.

6000 hours ago I used to have a check list, each was like log on, WvW, Tequatl, complete a map 100% and then WvW before going off. If I had a list like this now I would add some map META events in like Auric Basin.

[Speak.1065]

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@"Speak.1065" said:The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

If you play GW2 long enough, then this question repeats itself in other games just the same. Why grind, when you can play. Ofcourse, a downside is that you feel lost and directionless when you're not guided to the next thing. This is something this game can definitely improve on.

Another downside is ofcourse, the content isnt crutched by this grind anymore, making it painfully obvious when it is lacking. In other games you can get hyped up for the next big thing, to the point it doesn't need to be as good. Not bad either ofcourse, but just not as good. I have found myself grinding meaningless tasks more often than not, realising much later than I would in GW2 I'm just going through this cycle rather than playing a game. Maybe just my experience.

But yes, in other games they artificially made grinding important by requiring you to do it, in this game it's entirely and ultimately optional.

@Skiravor.1257 said:Lets see, 100hrs in for me...I was still running around in lowby areas, literally running (pre mount days) and wishing there was mounts and just exploring wishing there was gliders too lol

@"XatraZaytrax.2601" said:I am one of those 10000-plus hour people. I can attest that I have experienced a form of progression over the years in terms of skill. I went from never winning in pvp and avoiding it like the plague, to actually downing two players just last night by outwitting them. I went from barely being able to finish one small area of super adventure box when it first came out, to not only being able to fly through regukar levels, including glitches, to actually being able to do tribulation mode -- all except the last map, but I will work on it.

The thing about this game is that there seems to always be a new challenge there to take on if you want it. Sure, I don't like some of them, like those HOT mini games, but I feel good when I beat them to achievement. I guess, GW2s fun is all in ones head. I have always seen it like a sandbox with lots to choose from and lots of potential playmates

The game doesn't hold your hand, which sometimes is frustrating with harder content, but in that there is no easy mode. You can't just grind levels to make it easier, you have to really just "get good," which for me is often easier said than done. Grind is saved for the bling. Yes, I have Eternity, and was done when there was only original maps so few ways to easy gold.

I played wow for a while, but hated the combat, the pacing made it feel slow; hated loot sharing cause after a while I couldn't justify why I needed it over someone else and felt shamed into not going after it; exploration was frustrating, especially when the humans came onto the zone and kept tracking you down and killing you when all you wanted to do was mine something or finish a quest; found the quest system repetitive and over whelming.

Honestly, 100 hours is nothing to me in this game. Spent 16 hours this weekend messing around SAB and still didn't get to everything I wanted to do. Once did 24 hours straight in WvW, not a wise decision, but also not rare for people who enjoy the mode. I am always surprised when people say they have run out of stuff to do, there always seem to be more out there. Sure I get burned out of the game and modes, currently taking a break from wvw and playing other games, but I am always drawn back to gw2

@"Witch of Doom.5739" said:I'm one of the many who have been with GW2 since beta, and played GW before that. To me, there is no "end game." There is playing, and yes, even at my age I love to play. It's a game, and to me a game is to have fun; if you're not having fun, stop. The world of GW is not for everyone, and that's OK.

@Excursion.9752 said:The best way to describe how I feel about end game content is this.

While your character may plateau your personal development and skill level is where you profit. You get better as you have more experience in the game. It is very hard to be great in every area in this game. You will constantly improve but it is hard to master it all. I believe ANET wanted people to worry less about gear and focus more on your experiences. In time you accumulate resources and your ambitions may change. I have been playing this game since beta and there are still things that I have not experienced yet. Some things just don't interest me but on the other hand there are things that didn't grab me 1 month a go, that have got my attention now. My interest are forever evolving and I'd bet yours will too.

For having sub 200 hours into this game it would be hard to know how everything works and the ins and outs for one example fractals at level 25 is vastly different than 100cm. Everything you have experienced up to this point is a very small subset of what is really out there. If you keep playing you will evolve and grow and your priorities will follow suit. I suggest you set a long term goal like try to max out your masteries. It will be a long somewhat bumpy road but by the time you are done you will feel very different about your original post.

Hope you stick with it! Have fun.

@Dante.1763 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

As even devs said dps diffrence between casual player and the one trying hard is about 10 Times more. This game is easy to get into, but hard to Master. Imo Gw2 Excel in amazing combat system, and getting better takes some Time and gives a lot of satisfaction

Not the words they used. They used the words average player and good player, and thats a far better wording than casual and try hard. Im a casual player, my DPS is almost always 2-3 in the raid groups ive been in, so im playing at an above average, almost good level.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Speak.1065" said:There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see. As much as I loved this games "open worldness", unique zones, one of a kind character quality and expansive ability systems there is no end game progression. The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

Hey, the answer is already obvious ... unfortunately, you have been pre-conditioned to think MMO's can only work if you have to grind for something to make you better. That's not true and GW2 is proof.

@"montecristo.1324" said:"How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?"hands.I bet you just scrap the surface of the game. If you go in pvp, wvw or raids you will be a joke. And not because you are a bad player. Because you have not mastered anything. This is a game where builds, rotations, knowledge of the game, of the skills, of the animations, are all things that matter. Not a number attached to your loot. You want to be a stronger character? show it playing the game better than anybody with the same gear.

Thank you all for the responses! Once again this was a POSITIVE review, not everyone that picks up an MMORPG is going to hit mastery 300 and be rippin around on a skyscale, although I'm working on it hahaha. Thank you for the constructive criticism, mostly lol, I am very empathetic to your views and will take many of them into consideration. You've all provided with me with some thoughts on what to do next. That is whats important!

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The problem with the argument you make is, even with all the content you've played, that's still only like 10-15% of it.

You're missing several Living World seasons, you've only played two characters out of 9 classes (27 total if you count subclass combinations), of which can use dozens of builds each, your Fractal level is so low you haven't even encountered Mistlock Instabilities, it doesn't seem likely that you've solo'ed anything (group events, dungeons, Fractals, etc.) or that you've even stepped foot into WvW (or even PvP, if you like stoic balance) to see what all this is like against real players insteads of a (rather basic) AI.

And on top of this even if you've explored every map and done every JP, you'll still be missing many small secrets like minidungeons, and you'll have only completed a very small selection of events that were available at the time you were passing through. World completion isn't meant to be permanent; you'll inevitably return to the same maps and discover new things every time.

Furthermore the Living World is ongoing and there's another expansion coming.

It sounds like you just became burned out by playing too much at once and have become jaded because of it. Take a break from the game, and when you come back, join a guild and spend your time helping people who want to do the same things you have, and then some.

Btw you seem to've confused Precursors for Ascended weapons, and they aren't related. Precursors are only Exotic quality and aren't meant to be special besides their skin but to be used to craft the Legendary weapon. You can get the Ascended weapons (which do have higher stats than Exotics), from many different means including just playing the content in the expansion maps.

And those blue and green gears you're trying to sell are meant to be salvaged for Essence of Luck in order to boost your Magic Find, their costs on the TP are already very expensive for new players (who have only silvers to spend) despite seeming like nothing to you.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@"Speak.1065" said:Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours.

This isnt really true. For example, with equivalent gear, the difference in dps between someone who has mastered a class, and someone who is relatively new or of lower skill is about a factor of 10. Combat has a very high skill cap, and becoming proficient with a single class can take hundreds of hours of practice.

[WDBoldstar.7649]

As an MMO Veteran myself (Started played back in MUDs and MUSHes, and have been consistently playing at least one MMO for at least 20 years now), I find Guild Wars 2 (which I currently play in tandem with FFXIV) to be a fun change of pace. The issue is, if you play MMOs for the vertical progression, GW2 may not be the game for you. You don't really get stronger by mere gear alone past a certain point.

Instead, GW2 for me, is a place where I can log in, pick an achievement, and grind away. Most stuff won't be gated, or is behind requirements that can be easily chipped away at. Every day, I can feel like I made progress, and I dont have to worry I'm falling behind because I'm already max level and I already got near end-game gear that at best only needs a few stat tweaks to be back on top. That can be soothing and just what the doctor ordered for me after a long day.

Not every game needs to be for everybody. But I like the alternate avenues of MMO playing and progression that GW2 offers.

[Speak.1065]

@Hannelore.8153 said:The problem with the argument you make is, even with all the content you've played, that's still only like 10-15% of it.

You're missing several Living World seasons, you've only played two characters out of 9 classes (27 total if you count subclass combinations), of which can use dozens of builds each, your Fractal level is so low you haven't even encountered Mistlock Instabilities, it doesn't seem likely that you've solo'ed anything (group events, dungeons, Fractals, etc.) or that you've even stepped foot into WvW (or even PvP, if you like stoic balance) to see what all this is like against real players insteads of a (rather basic) AI.

And on top of this even if you've explored every map and done every JP, you'll still be missing many small secrets like minidungeons, and you'll have only completed a very small selection of events that were available at the time you were passing through. World completion isn't meant to be permanent; you'll inevitably return to the same maps and discover new things every time.

Furthermore the Living World is ongoing and there's another expansion coming.

It sounds like you just became burned out by playing too much at once and have become jaded because of it. Take a break from the game, and when you come back, join a guild and spend your time helping people who want to do the same things you have, and then some.

Thank you for the ideas! I've actually been in a guild since lvl 5! I play with many of them daily! Fractal Dailies and all, last night we even did about 7 mini dungeons, Font of Rhand, Vexa Labs, Provernic Crypt, Forsaken Fortune, Tears of Itl, Windy Cave and Groffs. I plan on finishing all of them this week! I am unable to play Living World 1 and I just completed 4, I did 3 last week. I may dive into 2 soon. I think I am forever burnt out on jumpin puzzles playing a norn and char hahahha. =)

[Taril.8619]

There's limited amount of character progression, sure. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Many "Gear Treadmill" MMO's literally just string you along with shoddy content under the pretense that obtaining new loot is meaningful and rewarding. But then the next content patch comes out and you're back to square one where your gear is now crap again and you need to regrind out the new loot so you can be more powerful while you... Don't do anything since content is not made to use your gear in it's only made to house the gear you need to obtain.

With GW2, the ease of obtaining a full set of gear as well as its persistence (Due to not arbitrarily raising level caps every expansion just so people have to spend a day gaining 10 levels before they can start grinding out gear...) means that content is designed with the sole purpose of being enjoyable to play. This also means that more content is playable since you don't have to worry about gear scaling making older stuff obsolete.

Masteries still provide that "Leveling" feeling, without being a necessity in order to start playing the game (Albeit with annoying Mastery Point requirements that can roadblock your progression if you're not explicitly doing content that will reward them)

This isn't to mention the fact that even in gear treadmill games, your character doesn't get stronger. Not in at level content anyway. Since all the enemies get proportionately stronger too, so you're still doing the same effective damage irregardless of the number of zeros tacked onto the end. The only time you'll notice the increase in power, is when you go to older (Thus dead) content and faceroll over it... Which has some appeal, but only temporarily and at the cost of ever being able to partake in that content in a normal state where it is actually enjoyable.

In the end, GW2 has a decent model. I feel it could be improved with an endless Mastery of some description that doesn't need any Mastery Points but requires increasingly large amounts of exp so you can get progress onto it and get something from leveling it up (Be you at 313 Mastery and have nothing left to work on, or if you're at 113 Mastery and are blockaded by the need to obtain more Mastery Points before you can open up something new to put experience towards). I don't know what that something should be though...

But outside of that, it's just about finding something you find fun to play and playing it. If you stop having fun... Go play something else and come back later when you feel like doing something in GW2 again, thanks to no subscription it's easy to dip in and out (Though, it's worth logging in every so often just to get the LW stories for free).

There are worse MMO's out there for having little content that also come with subscription fees (I recently quit FFXIV, since the content that gets drip fed out is so shallow that the game is literally just a Visual Novel that costs $10 a month and gets a handful of new pages every ~3 months... But it's fine if you like running the same content over and over to increase the numbers on your gear like they matter (They don't) or want to go and challenge the harder content in the game to get even better loot (To then get Item Level Sync'd in 95% of content anyway) wew...)

[Zephire.8049]

First I just want to point out that 100+ hours (30 of which went into making Dusk) in two weeks means you played for about 50 hours a week both weeks. That amount of time spent on anything can lead to burnout and affect your views of whatever you invested that time in.

Next, the things you complain about are why myself and so many others have spent thousands of hours playing GW2. Chasing stats is boring when it's a chase that will never end and you can't take a break because that will leave you even further behind. Skins you have, you have forever (literally—the engine doesn't allow for support to re-lock skins) and you can tailor your goals by pursuing the skins you want most. Dusk may not be worthwhile for you, but for others that's their top goal.

GW2 is an MMO where you largely set your own goals, not have them set for you. At level 80, with only ~70 mastery points, and 5/7 mounts, you've only scratched the surface. It's fine if you want that stat treadmill to keep you going, but if you can get over the panic that comes from not having a game tell you what to do, GW2 improves vastly. To use Dusk/Twilight as an example, some people see Twilight and see an awesome skin. Some people see a QoL upgrade for raids. Some people see $$$. Some people see another goal. Some people just don't care. No one is wrong and because there's no stat treadmill, people have the time to pursue what they want to pursue.

A lot of MMOs railroad you in what content you can do, to one degree or another. GW2 guides you through the story and supplies ideas of what to do via achievements, skins, masteries, and exploration, but after that you're free to do whatever you want without having to worry about falling behind when the next stat increase hits. Even if you don't pick up GW2 as a primary game, it may make it a great supplementary game for you since it was designed to not punish people over not being able to dedicate hour(s) a day every day to playing it.

Maybe GW2 is for you, maybe it isn't. But think of it more like a theme park MMO than an MMO like WoW where you can technically do various things but are punished for not doing the "proper" things.

(Also salvage blue and green gear, don't sell it. The raw materials generally sell for more than the gear and being as you're new, the luck is worth it as well. The exceptions tend to be green weapons in the 30-65 range with +power and +precision since people use those on leveling characters.)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Speak.1065" said:Hey All!I bought Guild Wars 2 about 2 weeks ago due to the pandemic currently leaving many of us quarantined. I have sunk 100+ hours into the game, currently I have a max lvl Core Guardian and a max lvl Reaper Necro. Initially I began this game after purchasing the "Guild Wars 2 Ultimate Package". I read the forums and started off by using the boost to bumble myself into part 1 of the PoF story in order to get the raptor mount and make my leveling experience more streamline and efficient then sidelined that character and leveled the Guardian and Necro. Currently my mastery lvl is about 70 and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience and the unique dynamic environment of each zone I was in. The map points of interest, vistas, questing style combined with a tailored/unique story based on your choices was engaging and rich. It is hands down the best leveling experience I have had, even topping KotOR, WoW, FFXIV and Firefall. The abilities, weapon combinations and specializations really made for an ever-changing rotation and interesting play style. Because of the above I very much appreciated this game.

However, here I am mastery lvl 70ish with 2 lvl 80 characters and a loss for words. I've done all the World Bosses multiple times, fractals up to 25, each dungeon at least 2-3 times in exploration mode, finished a tier 3 precursor weapon, 5 different mounts (and their masteries) done a few hundred jumping puzzles, PoF story, HoT story, and season 4 story. Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours. The depth of the requirements necessary to raid, and craft ascended gear is absolutely asphyxiating. I crafted Dusk, a Tier 3 precursor weapon and came to realize there was nothing special about it, it was the same stats as the 2g great-sword I bought when I hit 80. The 30+ hours I spent diligently grinding those achievement requirements out were a complete ripoff. My inventory is overflowing with unused crafting materials because my bank/crafting bank are overfilled. They have no use because no one needs Rare or Masterwork items. They generally vendor for more then they are worth on the BLTP. I started to lose interest in even looting because the only things that actually has a value are the zone specific currencies and karma. If you have the fanatical work ethic to forge Twilight, Sunrise, Eternity, etc, I guarantee you that same trait applied in the job market will make you millions. There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see. As much as I loved this games "open worldness", unique zones, one of a kind character quality and expansive ability systems there is no end game progression. The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

I would still recommend this to people looking for a new experience. To any former Wow(Classic and Live), KotOR, and FFXIV veterans seeing this please try this game so you can see a completely different experience in the realm of MMORPG, you wont be disappointed! (Until 50 hours into lvl 80 maybe =P)

As a former WoW player, I recall the feeling. What is the point of all of this? What am I supposed to do and why do I want to do it? That whole engine that drives the endgame experience in WoW is completely missing here. I don't know what to tell you. Either you can live without the treadmill or you can't. But you might give it some time. I was surprised to find I didn't care anymore, because at first it really bothered me!

[Skotlex.7580]

There's something to keep in mind regarding vertical progression: when it exists, pretty much everybody is tied to it, as one needs to properly max out your character before anything else. This is why in most mmos players state that the real game starts at end-game. If GW2 had something like that, every player would be tied to that threadmill, and not working on it is awful because one is left behind by those who put the time effort first (imagine this happening with your guildmates or friends).

Avoiding the treadmill means that your friend that just joined the game can accompany you into the latest content as soon as they reach 80 and gear up. In a certain way, the biggest boon of not having a gear treadmill is that players aren't so distant from each another that they cannot partake in the same content together.

Granted, it shows who's new to the content at hand when you notice those players who keep going down and need your help. :)

[thepenmonster.3621]

Gear treadmills are crap. ALL crafting mats should be sellable. Dungeons need to be rolled into the PS. Dailies need more variety. That is all.

[Klypto.1703]

Hours are way too long I think they should only be half an hour at the very most.

[Henry.5713]

Seems like you tried to take the straight path on a rather curvy mountain road. And now you are giving us a review from inside this huge mountain of a game you dug yourself into.

[costepj.5120]

You spent 100 hours in Tyria and you have done everything? Cool. I spent 100 hours in New York on one trip, so I obviously never need to revisit.Pity the poor Tyrians; what are they going to do for the rest of their lives?

[Bladestrom.6425]

As other have said op, progression is not about getting a new item that improves your power by 5. Progression in terms of powef is about skill mastery. In wow skills have been pruned to death to countervthe power curve, in GW2 its quite the opposite, getting bigger numbers and not bring slaughtered in pvp is about your own knowledge and reactions.

In terms of long term goals that could be classified as char progression:

Pve mastery.of nultiple buildsPvp and wvw mastery of multiple buildsFull ascended / crafting maxedLegendaries that makes build master and experimentation more practicalAscended food/ max chefWvw skill pointsMastery pointsFlying mountsHigh fractal hard modesRaids

And classic horizontal fare

ExplorationAchievmentsRare skinsMagic findCurrency eatersBecome rich so you can buy anything you wantBags, Build templates, permanent access to a restricted hub. Convenience items like the portal to next world boss fight and salvagers

[Cyninja.2954]

There is a reason many of us call it fashion wars. :)

As far as progression, I am not going to call this right or wrong for either approach, but many players have been conditioned to constantly grind and chase that next shiny, often related to power progression. It makes developing content that players stick to a lot easier.

As a WoW veteran myself, consider this: how much progression did you really achieve item or character wise? 6 months down the road, all those shinnies will be out dated and even the level cap will not remain once the next expansion hits. Your brain is getting fooled into believing that you've accomplished something which has progressed your character, when most of the time it was just busy work. Is this entertaining? Sure, it works for a lot of players.

In GW2 the closest approach to this would be to find something to care about. Account value (that's the one thing about GW2, your overall in game wealth will increase nearly all the time no matter which content you play), classes and builds mastered, content cleared, etc. There are things unrelated to gear which one can measure their progress on if desired. Otherwise it's mostly about finding content you enjoy in the game and playing that, ideally with others.

[Roche.7491]

Sad thing about this game is that we will miss being STRONG in PVP; pawning gremlins and turning heroes into creeps lol.

This game feels like Communist. It should Capitalist! Equality sucks, the truth is we want to be above.

[Tukaram.8256]

@Speak.1065 said:Hey All!... Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). ....

You hit on one my favorite things about this game. I absolutely hate the bore of a constant grind. In GW2 the endgame content is fun, most of the gear and shiny stuff are optional.

[Anemone.5320]

I'm the same as all of the above, I really like how I don't have to constantly grind on gear and it stays more or less the same through my travels in Tyria. I can focus on having fun! Actually playing the game rather than grind it is a lot more fun for me, especially since there's a lot of things to experience still.

[Severo.7091]

I think the game pretty much has something for everyone, PvP, Fractals, Solo Progression, Fashion Wars...whatever you want. Not many games offer that.

[Vecuu.2018]

I can see how the lack of gear progression is weird, but allow me to give you a different experience.

I started playing with the 3-day head start at launch. Played hardcore for about a year and a half. I had 6 characters level 80 decked out in exotics when Fractals of the Mist was added a year after release. The grind and in-game financial drain that ascended gear meant was a large part of what made me stop playing initially. (there have been significant improvements to FotM progression since then, and I generally enjoy doing my daily T4s)

One of the nicest things about the game, is you can just come back and enjoy it and not feel like you have to play catch-up at each expansion or Living World release. I can literally just come back and play and that's awesome!

[Tyncale.1629]

I do consider most Masteries progression since they make thing easier or more fun when doing stuff in the world. Having said that, my Main account passed a certain threshold of diminishing returns for me, so now I am doing it all over again on a few Alt accounts. :) The fact that I still love the beautiful world and the DE's and all the NPC buzz in it, means I do not mind this at all. The progression feels real again. Off course you have to really enjoy being in and doing stuff in this World.

That threshold is different for everyone, I am sure, and some may never experience it that way anyway.

For me it was having about 14+k Ap (with 12+k still to go in dailies which I can't be bothered with), all mastery Points except the raid ones, World completion x 3, 5 Legendary weapons and 2 Legendary trinkets. Oh, and I found out that I looted the Chak Eggsac way back when HoT was just released so that was that for the loot. Loot not really a big thing in this game anyway.

[Ashantara.8731]

IMHO, the OP doesn't really get the game. 100 hours are nothing, so it's no surprise they haven't discovered the actual deal yet.

@Speak.1065: A tier 3 precursor is not why people are crafting legendaries. They are doing it for the actual thing. This game's agenda isn't gear progression grinding, that's why ascended and legendary gear has the same stats.

[Roche.7491]

@Ashantara.8731 said:IMHO, the OP doesn't really get the game. 100 hours are nothing, so it's no surprise they haven't discovered the actual deal yet.

@Speak.1065: A tier 3 precursor is not why people are crafting legendaries. They are doing it for the actual thing. This game's agenda isn't gear progression grinding, that's why ascended and legendary gear has the same stats.

True. Legendary weapon can be translated to legendary aesthetic plus convenience combined. Performance wise, it’s actually nothing.

Ascended is enough for me.

[kharmin.7683]

@Roche.7491 said:True. Legendary weapon can be translated to legendary aesthetic plus convenience combined. Performance wise, it’s actually nothing.

Ascended is enough for me.Same. Which is why I'll never grind for legendary. Not my kind of fun.