Why are we forced to play a mode if we dont like it?

[Omega.6801]

@"Adonai.5071" said:

... if i dont like a certain mode i stay away from it and dont pursuit its special items as well...

Seeing that the GoB is a special item from WvW, maybe a legendary that, at least in concept, should be a sign of "I have played everything in the game", isn't for you to have then.

If you WANT the thing you need to do the thing, still no change in argument here.

[ancafr.9274]

@Adonai.5071 said:Its more of a Note to devs:

(returning player.) why gift of battle needed for legendaries now only obtainable through reward track? if i hate wvw mode don't force me to play it. this will NOT help make me like wvw at all. it will just suck few days of disgusted playing time and contempt towards the game. Also, if anything it will make me forget about ever creating a new legendary again.

Anet isnt 'forcing' anyone to play their game content you play if u want, but good stuff requires sacrifices whether you like it or not. I HATE Hot map and I was 'forced' to play to get my mistward set, in fact I was ''forced'' to play both expansion maps on laggy cuz I wanted griffon and the mistward set, played both maps on a horrible video card gt 420, i3 4160(upgraded the video card but processor still the same unfortunally).

So you have two options, play their content and get what you want or not play and not get what u want, simple as that. I lost around 300G on craft on leatherwork and weaponsmith from 0-500 to get ascend and so far I dont have one single piece of ascend huh, except the trinkets I bought with laureus, I just gave up trying to craft ascend cuz is kitten HARD and some items cannot be bought from market so I decided stay on exotic, i always HATED craft here and nobody 'forced' me to mess with craft I did it cuz I wanted, lost my gold lesson learned no more crafting.

GW2 crafting system is FAIL in my opinion cuz we cant buy everything we need, some items must be farmed and those may take weeks even months, they should add to new craft items to make the crafting easier and more accessible for new players who want high end gears, but instead they make it too difficult and discourage players =/.

[Adonai.5071]

@Spartacus.3192 said:

Why do i have to do map completion (PVE) to make legendary weapons? Why am i forced to play a game mode i hate. (i only wvw). Forcing me to do map completion will NOT help me like PVE at all. It will suck for the days/weeks it takes me to do map completion and generate contempt towards the game.

sense a pattern here.

1st- the game is the PvE, you create a char and taken to pve map, you log in a pve map, new content is 99% pve, you access the other modes via tabs from pve. etc..2nd- if you are crafting a legendary weapon the recipe is from pve the collections are all pve. so...3rd- you can skip map completion by buying the finished legendary from TP (costy but you can skip it), all legendaries that require gift of exploration can be found on TP. i cant buy HoT PoF legendary weapons that require gift of battle from TP4th- i dont mind if you can purchase it with badges or whatever mode currency. on the contrary i would like that to happen

so the pattern doesnt really match.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

So, based on this, would You advocate for people who do WvW as their primary mode that hate map completion, be allowed to get the ‘Gift of (WvW) Completion’ by doing map completion in WvW and being able to substitute this for the Gift of (insert maguuma mastery, POF maps mastery, map completion in WvW) ?

Sure why would i object to that? but better than substitution so we dont get double recipes for the same item, they can make these same gifts purchasable with mode currency and keep 1 unique recipe for a each item, less confusing

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I get that you don't want to enter WvW. I'm not opposed to your asking ANet to change things up. However, at this point, the requirement is unlikely to change. From the ANet perspective, there could be a lot to lose and not much to gain.

At this late date, a lot of players have done WvW to get Legendary Weapons. How many of them didn't really want to? No one knows, but the number is very likely to be far from 0. How many of them would be unhappy they had to do something they disliked but later adopters don't have to? The answer, again, is likely to be far from 0. Just look at the old controversy when new players got the core game as part of Heart of Thorns purchase.

Meanwhile, the only hold-up for players who want a Legendary but feel as you do about WvW is time. It takes 80 WvW potions from daily rewards to complete a track. If you really don't want to even enter WvW, do the Big Spender daily (usually appears about 6+ times per month), using the Badges from Achievement Chests, and get a Gift of Battle in about 14 months.

Too long, you say? You can go stand in a monument for a few seconds. This daily pops about 8 or 9 times per month. Master of Monuments can be done at the monument closest to one's side's Garrison, with minimal risk of even seeing an opposing player. That drops the time from 14 months to about 6.

Still too long? Kill Veteran Creatures. On an Alpine map (that isn't yours), the Vet's spawn point is close to where you enter the zone. This pops 7+ times per month. The time is now down to about 4 months. At this point, you're spending about 15 minutes a day, max. Vet can be a bit of a time waster, as they take about 10 to 12 minutes to respawn. However, there are usually other players there, and the chances are even if you see enemy players, they'll let you be.

Still too long? Adding in Caravan Disruptor and Land Claimer may be a touch more risky, but can shorten the time needed significantly. Caravan appears 7+ times per month, and Land 9+. If you do both in addition to the above, the time required drops to less than 3 months.

Still want it faster? Guard Killer appears 8+ times per month and Camp Capturer appears 16+ times per month. The Camp daily awards 2 potions, and is a daily more than half the time, so it's a big time saver. If you do these two (often getting guard killer and camp at the same time), the time to get a gift is down to less than a month.

If you want one even faster, well, you'll have to follow a zerg for a little bit. Be sure to get the Guild Enhancement for WvW reward track gain. It doesn't apply to potions, but does to the tick progress.

[Adonai.5071]

@"lokh.2695" said:

Seeing that the GoB is a special item from WvW, maybe a legendary that, at least in concept, should be a sign of "I have played everything in the game", isn't for you to have then.

If you WANT the thing you need to do the thing, still no change in argument here.

GoB is a component to create item, special item from wvw would be like Warbringer. the more accurate word is 'special gear'

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Adonai.5071 said:

@Spartacus.3192 said:

Why do i have to do map completion (PVE) to make legendary weapons? Why am i forced to play a game mode i hate. (i only wvw). Forcing me to do map completion will NOT help me like PVE at all. It will suck for the days/weeks it takes me to do map completion and generate contempt towards the game.

sense a pattern here.

1st- the game is the PvE, you create a char and taken to pve map, you log in a pve map, new content is 99% pve, you access the other modes via tabs from pve. etc..2nd- if you are crafting a legendary weapon the recipe is from pve the collections are all pve. so...3rd- you can skip map completion by buying the finished legendary from TP (costy but you can skip it), all legendaries that require gift of exploration can be found on TP. i cant buy HoT PoF legendary weapons that require gift of battle from TP4th- i dont mind if you can purchase it with badges or whatever mode currency. on the contrary i would like that to happen

so the pattern doesnt really match.

Sounds like you are a casual then who doesn't want to play the whole game. It's NOT just a PvE game, it's an MMO. If you want pure PvE, go play single player games and get away from anything Online. The devs shipped it with WvW and PvP live the day it started.

You can get Ascended, for same stats, 100% by crafting or Fractals in PvE. If you want the legendary looks, and stat swapping (which really only matters in WvW) then you need to play the whole game.

If you don't want to do the work, whip out Mighty VISA, buy the gems to convert to gold, and buy it from someone selling who did the work.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@"Adonai.5071" said:I saw two main arguments here:

1. "you dont have to. you dont need to" , if we extend this same logic then we all dont have to or need to play this game in the 1st place. This is a very bad idea for a game. If anet thinks like that game would be empty by now.

Actually, that's perfectly fine for anyone with a firm grasp of reality. It's a video game-- not a job or essential item. You play it or don't play it. However, if you do play it, realize that a game has rules-- that's the whole part of a game and there are consequences for doing things or not doing things. Nobody deserves special treatment regardless of their preferences. To claim otherwise without extenuating circumstances is entitlement. (And not having certain types of legendaries is certainly not one)

For people disconnected from reality and feel that they are compelled to earn pixels for some reason, then they should probably seek help because it is no longer a hobby but an addiction. Or go outside (when safe)

2. we had to go out from pvp or wvw to do pve for so and so, just a reminder, pve IS the game, the others are modes of the game.

That's simply your perception, and yours alone. Please quote Anet anywhere on this.

When you come back to playing the game produced by Anet, and not the one in your head, come back here.

[Spartacus.3192]

@Adonai.5071 said:1st- the game is the PvE, you create a char and taken to pve map, you log in a pve map, new content is 99% pve, you access the other modes via tabs from pve. etc..2nd- if you are crafting a legendary weapon the recipe is from pve the collections are all pve. so...3rd- you can skip map completion by buying the finished legendary from TP (costy but you can skip it), all legendaries that require gift of exploration can be found on TP. i cant buy HoT PoF legendary weapons that require gift of battle from TP4th- i dont mind if you can purchase it with badges or whatever mode currency. on the contrary i would like that to happen

so the pattern doesnt really match.

1. the game isnt just PVE, it has 3 game modes. and i log in directly to armistice bastion on my wvw toons and directly into pvp lobby on my pvp toon so youre wrong there.
2. You can skip wvw also and dont need the gift of battle. Just buy the legendary weapon as you just said above, so why are you complaining?

So the pattern does match actually

[ArchonWing.9480]

Btw, I'll do you all a favor and do this the proper way.

So I've been trying WvW lately, and noticed that there are some issues I had with it-- namely the reward system. The Gift of Battle is required for nearly all legendary equipment but it is only accessible via a WvW reward track. The problem with it is that reward track gain is rather slow compared to other game modes-- it requires 8 hours solely devoted to it without the use of a booster.

But even excluding the Legendary aspect, the rewards given do not seem to match the time invested. Compare this against, say, Fractals, which could earn you 30-40 gold for a successful clear, or raids that give rewards that can be done through several hours in a week, I feel there is a disparity. Furthermore, reward gain in WvW is further restricted by your server's performance in WvW.

I would also say that besides the use of boosters, there is also no viable way of reducing your time spent by playing better. In PvE, faster clears means less time spent. In WvW, there is really no way to accelerate it beyond the use of daily potions. A lot of this is outside my control. If I tag 1 guard every few minutes, or if I kill 100 players; the reward track progress is still the same.

While I do not know the WvW community personally, and perhaps they have different priorities, I think it would be great if Anet would put more incentive for other plays to join this game mode. Perhaps the reward tracks could be shortened by a bit, or perhaps there could be more ways to boost them. Or maybe some kind of alternative entirely. I think doing so would benefit all players that enter the game mode, not just me. Perhaps we should reevaluate the situation here.

Now, most will probably disagree with what I say, but why is this the superior approach?

• Note how I do not bring up how I feel, or how I've been wronged or how I'm about to quit the game. You know why? Nobody cares. Don't clog up your post with that nonsense. Saying that everyone will quit the game because of your issue is laughable, because that's not something you can prove.

• My goal for a legendary is NOT the focus of the post. I don't sound thirsty for one, because that's just sad. Instead I'm talking about making the game for more than myself. That tends to get more support.

• I do not mention waiving the WvW requirement directly because it is not the hill I want to die on. However, it can be brought up later.

• I make no accusations or even tell about my dislike of the game mode. That leads to pointless argument.

• I bring up simple observations. While they can be disputed, I'm not making grandiose diatribes about how things will be, because people simply will not agree. By using smaller, more concrete things, some people may agree.

• I do not write inflammatory nonsense such as players of other game modes are less important. I don't even know why I have to explain this, but here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-front_war

Isn't this so much better than saying "PvE is the only important game mode! I shouldn't have to do play anything else."?

[Tumult.2578]

All you're going to get here is people defending the area of the game they enjoy. Farm gold and buy it. Don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they forced even more people into doing something they hate. They could easily put the GoB in a weekly festival chest, but they need to continue trying to motivate people to try their failing game mode and it's the only method they appear to have. All those telling you how easy it is, are just waiting there to kill you. Buy it.

[Chaba.5410]

@Adonai.5071 said:

@"Spartacus.3192" said:

Why do i have to do map completion (PVE) to make legendary weapons? Why am i forced to play a game mode i hate. (i only wvw). Forcing me to do map completion will NOT help me like PVE at all. It will suck for the days/weeks it takes me to do map completion and generate contempt towards the game.

sense a pattern here.

1st- the game is the PvE, you create a char and taken to pve map, you log in a pve map, new content is 99% pve, you access the other modes via tabs from pve. etc..

Looks like you just agreed that WvW is PvE and that's why Spartacus needs to do map completion. And that's why you also have to play WvW to get a Gift used in the crafting of a PvE endgame item. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but in WoW you're forced to do raids for endgame gear rather than playing how you want. And it can take months of playing that content with RNG. Here people complain about having to spend only 8 hours or so playing WvW? It sounds crazy to me. Why should you not be required to sample multiple playstyles for an endgame item in a game designed for "play how you want" in lieu of grinding raids in a game where you're really forced to play one playstyle?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

When I wanted Gifts of Battle I would just run around taking camps while I slowly sold all the inventory from my dailies. I designated one of my toons the WvW seller, put all of the boosters on them, and then I would just run around the edge of the map selling stuff. Then, I would do the WvW dailies for potions.

[Chaba.5410]

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@Adonai.5071 said:1st- the game is the PvE, you create a char and taken to pve map, you log in a pve map, new content is 99% pve, you access the other modes via tabs from pve. etc..2nd- if you are crafting a legendary weapon the recipe is from pve the collections are all pve. so...3rd- you can skip map completion by buying the finished legendary from TP (costy but you can skip it), all legendaries that require gift of exploration can be found on TP. i cant buy HoT PoF legendary weapons that require gift of battle from TP4th- i dont mind if you can purchase it with badges or whatever mode currency. on the contrary i would like that to happen

so the pattern doesnt really match.

1. the game isnt just PVE, it has 3 game modes. and i log in directly to armistice bastion on my wvw toons and directly into pvp lobby on my pvp toon so youre wrong there.

Objectively, the game really has only 2 modes (PvE and PvP) with several implementations of those modes. And each implementation can have multiple playstyles in it. We like to think of WvW as it's own mode, but it uses the PvE gearing and stats and contains the roaming, GvG, and PPT playstyles. Speedrunning is a playstyle that can be found across several different implementations. I honestly see no reason why a PvE endgame item meant to show off that a player played the entirety of that mode wouldn't require something from each implementation. If raids and fractals had existed at launch, I'm certain crafting a legendary weapon would have required something from those implementations as well.

I think Adonai is mistaking the game for PvE only because GW2 upgraded from GW1 and allowed players to use the same characters in both the PvE and PvP modes (if you recall, in GW1 you had separate characters for PvE and PvP.) Was Anet going to start blended characters out in the PvP lobby? Probably not. And IIRC you can enter the PvP lobby right away after your new character is loaded into the starting instance.

[Tumult.2578]

I have no problem with the game motivating players to try other game modes. By all means, we should. Having spent 8 months doing WvW earning GoB's, I now fully well know that I hate it and wont go back. The Gift of Battle cannot be called motivation. It's not motivating players into WvW, when they face the realization, they simply leave the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Spartacus.3192" said:Why do i have to do map completion (PVE) to make legendary weapons? Why am i forced to play a game mode i hate. (i only wvw). Forcing me to do map completion will NOT help me like PVE at all. It will suck for the days/weeks it takes me to do map completion and generate contempt towards the game.

sense a pattern here.I for one think that those are very sensible complains, that could be solved by having an in-mode acquisition methods that would not force you to participate in the mode you so strongly dislike. Is that the "pattern" you wanted me to see?

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So, based on this, would You advocate for people who do WvW as their primary mode that hate map completion, be allowed to get the ‘Gift of (WvW) Completion’ by doing map completion in WvW and being able to substitute this for the Gift of (insert maguuma mastery, POF maps mastery, map completion in WvW) ?Sure i would. In fact, i've been responding like that since the first time someone brought that non-argument up (which was probably in the first year of the game). Curiously, all my responses to that end were always being ignored by the people i responded to, like they were invisible or something.

[Algreg.3629]

@Tumult.2578 said:All you're going to get here is people defending the area of the game they enjoy. Farm gold and buy it. Don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they forced even more people into doing something they hate. They could easily put the GoB in a weekly festival chest, but they need to continue trying to motivate people to try their failing game mode and it's the only method they appear to have. All those telling you how easy it is, are just waiting there to kill you. Buy it.

I am pretty sure most people give a rat's kitten what OP does or does not play.

[knite.1542]

The only person forcing you to do anything is yourself.

[Obtena.7952]

@Adonai.5071 said:Its more of a Note to devs:

(returning player.) why gift of battle needed for legendaries now only obtainable through reward track? if i hate wvw mode don't force me to play it. this will NOT help make me like wvw at all. it will just suck few days of disgusted playing time and contempt towards the game. Also, if anything it will make me forget about ever creating a new legendary again.

This title is misleading ... no one is forced to do anything. As a matter of fact, there are numerous legendaries you can purchase outright. No one cares if you forget about creating a legendary again ... it's not necessary for us or you to enjoy the game.

[Dawdler.8521]

Also, let me state this very clearly: the devs have confirmed that WvWers are really into PvE.This consequently must also mean that PvEers are really into WvW.

None of you have any argument.

This is canon.

[Tails.9372]

No one cares if you forget about creating a legendary againActually the Devs. should. If the goal of the legendary items is to add log term goals for the player and to add replay value to the content then design elements which work aganst these goals shoud be adressed, if not for the current then at least for future content releases.

[yoni.7015]

@Tails.9372 said:

No one cares if you forget about creating a legendary againActually the Devs. should. If the goal of the legendary items is to add log term goals for the player and to add replay value to the content then design elements which work aganst these goals shoud be adressed, if not for the current then at least for future content releases.

It doesn’t work against these goals. Just because some few people complain about that? To get a Legendary should include all aspects of the game.And that is the case.

[Tails.9372]

@yoni.7015 said:It doesn’t work against these goals.Like it or not but if it discourages people to go for them then yes, it does work against these goals.

@yoni.7015 said:Just because some few people complain about that?Given how constant the issue is brought up it doesn't just seem to be "a few" but a more sizeable part of the playerbase. However, that in itself seems to be a rather moot point to bring up as no one here has the exact numbers.

@yoni.7015 said:To get a Legendary should include all aspects of the game.But the is no need for them to, that's just what you want. In fact in some aspect we already have a double standard here and if it goes against their initial goal then like I said they shouldn't.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

You don't actually need to ever set foot in WvW to get a GoB.

There are several ways to occasionally buy a Box of WvW Supplies. These boxes can give WXP, sometimes none, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Save a lot of these, enough so you are almost guaranteed to get 2 ranks worth of WXP before you run out of boxes. Open them whenever there is a daily for WvW World Ranker until you got your daily 2 ranks. You will receive 2 Potions of WvW Rewards. Make sure you have the Gift of Battle reward track active before you use the potions.

You'll need to do this 40 times. Congratulations, many years from now you'll have your Gift of Battle.

[kharmin.7683]

@Tails.9372 said:

@yoni.7015 said:It doesn’t work against these goals.Like it or not but if it discourages people to go for them then yes, it does work against these goals.No, it discourages SOME people.

@yoni.7015 said:Just because some few people complain about that?Given how constant the issue is brought up it doesn't just seem to be "a few" but a more sizeable part of the playerbase. However, that in itself seems to be a rather moot point to bring up as no one here has the exact numbers.No, it is a vocal group on a forum. That is hardly a sizeable part of the playerbase. I'd wager that there are more players who actually have 1 legendary than there are people on the forums complaining about it.

@yoni.7015 said:To get a Legendary should include all aspects of the game.But the is no need for them to, that's just what you want. In fact in some aspect we already have a double standard here and if it goes against their initial goal then like I said they shouldn't.What double-standard?

[maddoctor.2738]

@"yoni.7015" said:To get a Legendary should include all aspects of the game.

That used to be true but not anymore. You don't really need to enter Raids to get any Legendary item except for Envoy Armor. You don't need to do any form of PVE to get the PVP or WVW Legendary armors (although it will help with certain materials). Then there is the WVW and PVP exclusive Legendary items, and so on. Obviously no Legendary item requires -anything- released during the Icebrood Saga either. The "all aspects of the game" phrase flew away some time ago, now Legendary items are acquired by playing more specific content.