75% of 2v2 players are necros

[Luthan.5236]

Yeah. It seems there aren't matches with at least 2 necro. Afaik the matchmaker atm places 1 necro on each team and then tries to use another class/profession to fill up (they aren't the same on both teams).

As engineere I always have 1 necro on my team, 1 necro on enemy team + a different one on enemy team (rarely necro or engineer).

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

People still play 2v2's, despite their obvious imbalance?

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:3v3 was better anyway. i wish for a 1v1. tho on a flat arena map without columns and boxes.

Longbow rangers and deadeyes would love that. 1500 range pew pew for the skilled and tactical win!

i have done enough duels in guild hall arena and WvW to know that this is only true for the first seconds of the engagement.flat map with mayeb a little elevation in the center is the most balanced map for 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 you could get.

[Cynder.2509]

@Cynder.2509 said:And people say necro is useless. Seems like this was a lie.From a PvP or WvW standpoint nobody has seriously said this for a while.

I was actually referring to this from a raider's perspective (they're only viable as heal scourge as reaper does not enough dps and even a lot of them I've met weren't that much of a use). I'm aware that in competitive modes they're doing pretty well.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Cynder.2509 said:

@Cynder.2509 said:And people say necro is useless. Seems like this was a lie.From a PvP or WvW standpoint nobody has seriously said this for a while.

I was actually referring to this from a raider's perspective (they're only viable as heal scourge as reaper does not enough dps and even a lot of them I've met weren't that much of a use). I'm aware that in competitive modes they're doing pretty well.

That's fair enough but still really weird from a standpoint of subforum context. Everyone is going to assume anything you post here pertains to..well PvP, as per the subforum title.

[Bazsi.2734]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:3v3 was better anyway. i wish for a 1v1. tho on a flat arena map without columns and boxes.

Longbow rangers and deadeyes would love that. 1500 range pew pew for the skilled and tactical win!

i have done enough duels in guild hall arena and WvW to know that this is only true for the first seconds of the engagement.flat map with mayeb a little elevation in the center is the most balanced map for 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 you could get.

Deadeye has an overabundance of stealth to reposition, GS/Longbow ranger can have 3 sources of potential stealth, but combine that with GS block and superspeed+leaps, both builds can basicly go to full distance quite easy. Some players might be bad and not utilise these tools, however I can kill almost anything with these builds if they do not use LoS. And what's not killable(lets say full on blocks/evades/reflects loaded bunker guard or support ele), nothing else can kill that build in an 1v1 either.An open map with a very few spots to "hide" might be a good idea. A completely empty map however? No thanks.

[Asum.4960]

@Cynder.2509 said:

@Cynder.2509 said:And people say necro is useless. Seems like this was a lie.From a PvP or WvW standpoint nobody has seriously said this for a while.

I was actually referring to this from a raider's perspective (they're only viable as heal scourge as reaper does not enough dps and even a lot of them I've met weren't that much of a use). I'm aware that in competitive modes they're doing pretty well.

It might be semantics in this case, but Necro is very much so viable, both as Scourge cDPS as well as Reaper as pDPS, they are just far from optimal.Reaper is pretty much on par with Dragonhunter at this point, although DH has suffered quite a bit the last few patches ofc, compared to things like Holo, Chrono, Soulbeast, Weaver, Tempest and Berserker.Condi Scourge, while it benchmarks pathetically on the Golem and definitely also could use a sizeable buff in PvE, translates those numbers much better into real fights than most other things, which still leaves it quite a bit below things like cRen, Mirage, cWeaver , Berserker, etc., but well withing the realm of viable as well.

[KrHome.1920]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Holo is unplayable vs necro and especially reaper.Thx for the laugh. What's your next message to the world? How about "reaper counters deadeye"?

The current explosive holo metabuild is highly favored against the blood magic reaper metabuild. It has a lot more utility and an amount of boons the reaper can never corrupt to a noteworthy extent.

If you lose that encounter as holo, then you are either incredibly bad on holo or the reaper player is god tier. The holo build has more than enough tools to outplay the reaper build.

@Aktium.9506 said:Maybe in lower tiers.

So far my experience for this 2v2 mini-season is that the top 50 is all Holo + Scrapper duos and it's just the lamest thing imaginable.Thank you! It's nice to find a comment of someone who does obviously not suck at the game and is capable of drawing the right conclusions.

Explosive sword holo is the current fotm build for players with some basic mechanical understanding of the engineer class. This build can deal with everything - especially if it duos with a support build.

[Shiyo.3578]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Holo is unplayable vs necro and especially reaper.Thx for the laugh. What's your next message to the world? How about "reaper counters deadeye"?

The current explosive holo metabuild is highly favored against the blood magic reaper metabuild. It has a lot more utility and an amount of boons the reaper can never corrupt to a noteworthy extent.

If you lose that encounter as holo, then you are either incredibly bad on holo or the reaper player is god tier. The holo build has more than enough tools to outplay the reaper build.

Top players started playing reaper because it beats holo 1v1 btw

[mortrialus.3062]

2v2s is always going to favor team fight classes. Necro is to teamfights what thief is to roaming.

Conquest is actually brilliantly designed in a lot of ways that allows for things like roaming and 1v1ing to be valuable and not just only team fights.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Lich form still doing 696 (2.34) base damage on AAs and the fact all skills get reset each match kinda helps. It actually does like 20% MORE damage in PvP than in PvE.

[Shiyo.3578]

@mortrialus.3062 said:2v2s is always going to favor team fight classes. Necro is to teamfights what thief is to roaming.

Conquest is actually brilliantly designed in a lot of ways that allows for things like roaming and 1v1ing to be valuable and not just only team fights.

Yeah, I hated arenas in WoW because they were too one-dimensional and restrictive. It made them homogenize all the classes to basically be caster/healer/warrior.

Objective based PvP is much, much better. Tons more depth and strategy.

[Black Storm.6974]

I doubt it is really 75%.

Anyway, in 2vs2 Necromancer can’t be focused and CC to death in instants, so it is more enjoyable there. Lichform could get a rework, just nerfing its damage would take away all it has to offer (high damage for few seconds on 150 seconds cooldown, and only if the opponents don’t have any way to reflect or block projectiles for few seconds).

Anyway, ArenaNet can’t balance Necromancer for 2vs2 (not without reworking it from the ground or splitting balance between Conquest and 2vs2). Anyway I wonder if there is really something to balance here, since I’m sure there are far stronger duellers out there. Probably in high divisions where there are those who knows how to play their professions it can be noticed.

They can not just take away from it the strength that is supposed to be a compensation for the great weaknesses Necromancer has in Conquest. In conquest it is a poor dueller. It is also slow and very vulnerable to CCs and damage bursts. Its damage is highly dependent on Reaper Shroud, so it is not even really reliable. Necromancer starts every match without Life Force, that means that it is initially both very vulnerable and poor at doing damage.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Black Storm.6974 said:I doubt it is really 75%.

Anyway, in 2vs2 Necromancer can’t be focused and CC to death in instants, so it is more enjoyable there. Lichform could get a rework, just nerfing its damage would take away all it has to offer (high damage for few seconds on 150 seconds cooldown, and only if the opponents don’t have any way to reflect or block projectiles for few seconds).

Anyway, ArenaNet can’t balance Necromancer for 2vs2 (not without reworking it from the ground or splitting balance between Conquest and 2vs2). Anyway I wonder if there is really something to balance here, since I’m sure there are far stronger duellers out there. Probably in high divisions where there are those who knows how to play their professions it can be noticed.

They can not just take away from it the strength that is supposed to be a compensation for the great weaknesses Necromancer has in Conquest. In conquest it is a poor dueller. It is also slow and very vulnerable to CCs and damage bursts. Its damage is highly dependent on Reaper Shroud, so it is not even really reliable. Necromancer starts every match without Life Force, that means that it is initially both very vulnerable and poor at doing damage.

Reaper is actually a good duelist and why it's currently overperforming in conquest.

[Black Storm.6974]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:I doubt it is really 75%.

Anyway, in 2vs2 Necromancer can’t be focused and CC to death in instants, so it is more enjoyable there. Lichform could get a rework, just nerfing its damage would take away all it has to offer (high damage for few seconds on 150 seconds cooldown, and only if the opponents don’t have any way to reflect or block projectiles for few seconds).

Anyway, ArenaNet can’t balance Necromancer for 2vs2 (not without reworking it from the ground or splitting balance between Conquest and 2vs2). Anyway I wonder if there is really something to balance here, since I’m sure there are far stronger duellers out there. Probably in high divisions where there are those who knows how to play their professions it can be noticed.

They can not just take away from it the strength that is supposed to be a compensation for the great weaknesses Necromancer has in Conquest. In conquest it is a poor dueller. It is also slow and very vulnerable to CCs and damage bursts. Its damage is highly dependent on Reaper Shroud, so it is not even really reliable. Necromancer starts every match without Life Force, that means that it is initially both very vulnerable and poor at doing damage.

Reaper is actually a good duelist an why it's currently overperforming in conquest.

I have stopped playing PvP few months ago, when it was a poor dueller in conquest. I’m not sure if the recent balance patch changed that.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Holo is unplayable vs necro and especially reaper.Thx for the laugh. What's your next message to the world? How about "reaper counters deadeye"?

The current explosive holo metabuild is highly favored against the blood magic reaper metabuild. It has a lot more utility and an amount of boons the reaper can never corrupt to a noteworthy extent.

If you lose that encounter as holo, then you are either incredibly bad on holo or the reaper player is god tier. The holo build has more than enough tools to outplay the reaper build.

Top players started playing reaper because it beats holo 1v1 btw

Unless you have actual proof of this this is anecdotal.

[Vancho.8750]

@Black Storm.6974 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:I doubt it is really 75%.

Anyway, in 2vs2 Necromancer can’t be focused and CC to death in instants, so it is more enjoyable there. Lichform could get a rework, just nerfing its damage would take away all it has to offer (high damage for few seconds on 150 seconds cooldown, and only if the opponents don’t have any way to reflect or block projectiles for few seconds).

Anyway, ArenaNet can’t balance Necromancer for 2vs2 (not without reworking it from the ground or splitting balance between Conquest and 2vs2). Anyway I wonder if there is really something to balance here, since I’m sure there are far stronger duellers out there. Probably in high divisions where there are those who knows how to play their professions it can be noticed.

They can not just take away from it the strength that is supposed to be a compensation for the great weaknesses Necromancer has in Conquest. In conquest it is a poor dueller. It is also slow and very vulnerable to CCs and damage bursts. Its damage is highly dependent on Reaper Shroud, so it is not even really reliable. Necromancer starts every match without Life Force, that means that it is initially both very vulnerable and poor at doing damage.

Reaper is actually a good duelist an why it's currently overperforming in conquest.

I have stopped playing PvP few months ago, when it was a poor dueller in conquest. I’m not sure if the recent balance patch changed that.It is still the same, cause nothing changed mechanically, it is good teamfighter and a bad dueler, even the supposed "bad" warrior will out duel reaper. More targets more time in shroud and never go anywhere alone, the buddy system. It can probably "duel" condi rev, cause of the condi cleanse in blood magic, but it is more of a stalemate and buttering up waiting for the + and if you are the one getting plussed you are F, while Rev would be able to stall a little while your +.

[Shaogin.2679]

Just reading through the posts here, it seems no one can agree on what classes are actually dominating the 2v2 scene, rendering this complaint thread null and void unless proof is provided. Have a good day! :)

@Apokriphos.7042 said:If Anet needs to change anything, its in preventing duo queues in ranked.That is the worst possible change that could ever be made. This is a MMO. This may come as a surprise, but I would like to play a MMO with my friends! :oThe only people that benefit from solo queue are trolls, bots, and those that would otherwise be unwelcome in a group. Those are not the kind of people that should be catered to.

[Cynder.2509]

Okay, just to add this as I forgot to mention this earlier.Necros or other condi classes in general are pretty good in PvP or WvW because condi is almost overpowered in these game modes. (if you fight against them, that means...)In PvE playing as a condi isn't really well received as you mainly want to go for the snowcrows DPS benchmark and some bosses are more resistant to condi. In competetive modes however things work different as you fight against unpredictable foes, real players, instead of a boss you can predict and foresee their patterns. This is also why the gear differs from competetive modes and PvE. I've played a lot of PvP some years ago and WvW for several years until somewhere last year (currently taking a break from gw2 in general) and my observations regarding necromancers is that they have quite spiked up in a while because of their condition damage, their second healthbar and the easy learning curve. Especially after PoF they became more because with Scourge some more of their condition ability was added. This caused a lot of builds to have more condi cleanses, especially in WvW. I remember when you saw more thieves or mesmers in competetive modes but today you find them only rarely (at least from my experience) as necros quite outplay them. The class is easy to get into but mastering is a different story. Maybe the reason there are more necros is also they're easy to get into.I'm quite happy to see necros being well in at least one game mode because it has been one of my favorites.

[thundermarch.5643]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@thundermarch.5643 said:2v2 give more challenge and a different way to play. For me it's always good to try and add new gameplay but it need to have a more balanced gameplay or maybe reduce damage / health on this game mode idk but still some class are really over the top and as you saied it's more important on this game mode .

For my part i only play against rev and holo and the combo of the 2 (lot of cc , aoe, health ...) dont make it really fun to play against ^^'I think 2v2 is way more reliant on counter building and counter comping then conquest and people just don't want to change their build/comp/class around.

That's pretty true yeah =)

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:I doubt it is really 75%.

Anyway, in 2vs2 Necromancer can’t be focused and CC to death in instants, so it is more enjoyable there. Lichform could get a rework, just nerfing its damage would take away all it has to offer (high damage for few seconds on 150 seconds cooldown, and only if the opponents don’t have any way to reflect or block projectiles for few seconds).

Anyway, ArenaNet can’t balance Necromancer for 2vs2 (not without reworking it from the ground or splitting balance between Conquest and 2vs2). Anyway I wonder if there is really something to balance here, since I’m sure there are far stronger duellers out there. Probably in high divisions where there are those who knows how to play their professions it can be noticed.

They can not just take away from it the strength that is supposed to be a compensation for the great weaknesses Necromancer has in Conquest. In conquest it is a poor dueller. It is also slow and very vulnerable to CCs and damage bursts. Its damage is highly dependent on Reaper Shroud, so it is not even really reliable. Necromancer starts every match without Life Force, that means that it is initially both very vulnerable and poor at doing damage.

Reaper is actually a good duelist an why it's currently overperforming in conquest.

It's only a good duelist when played better than the opponent and/or when people let it just attack them.

Reaper and necros as a whole are busted in the 2v2 right now solely due to arena layout. It's an AoE class and the field is tiny. It's the same reason why they're so strong in WvW blobs. Your enemies are all in one place and are easy to just cleave into, and 2v2 + sPvP low offensive stats allow for necro's LF to act as a big enough barrier to just tank the fight early on while also not letting enemies reset out of shrouded engages.