Invisibility has Gotten out of Hand

[Nimon.7840]

@"Sobx.1758" said:If you're a skilled player you know how to properly play against stealth, those who don't aren't effective regardless but i find no joy in losing a mechanic i am adept at using. It has been a staple in the game since the onset and it needs to stay, thanks! ;)

Tbh.It's the exact same thing that shades were treated.Staying out of a red circle isn't hard is it?But people cried that they can't see when a red circle is attacking.

So they added this annoying delay.

But stealth is ok? It's the exact same thing. You can't see when an attack is coming. And a backstab doing 6-8k damage is just ridiculous. That's taking away half the health of your opponent.

So because I can't see when a thief is about to backstab me, I want an exclamation mark over my head, half a second before a stealthed player attacks, so I can dodge the attack.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Vortigern.1987 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

No it doesn't need to be addressed, because it has been fine for 8 years

Pretty much like downstate, i guess. :)

Not the same at all lol? What nerf did down state get? I didn't know that being marked prevents down state

[Virdo.1540]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

[archmagus.7249]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."

[Virdo.1540]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

you dont really get me. there are many ways to bypass "revealed". For example, using short-duration invis-skills. And i not only mean the "flickering on - off stealth"

[solemn.9608]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Bristingr.5034 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:The Problem is that Anet gave Stealth access to almost every class

Wait, when did Elementalists receive stealth?

Do I have to link the video again or would you care to scroll up?

Elementalist can have access to stealth through a certain norn elite.The water-smoke-field-blast combo is not going to be used often whatsoever

[Qaju.2058]

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

[archmagus.7249]

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

[Qaju.2058]

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

So he had basilisk venom which is the only unblockable interrupt he could pull out, which means no shadow meld elite could've been slotted, so he already had no means to remove revealed. Are you even trying to make a point here?Static shield stuns melee attacks. You said you were shot. Can I please get coherent arguing in here?

Ps: Death's Judgement lost it's unblockable effect since December 2018 just for your info...

[archmagus.7249]

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

So he had basilisk venom which is the only unblockable interrupt he could pull out, which means no shadow meld elite could've been slotted, so he already had no means to remove revealed. Are you even trying to make a point here?Static shield stuns melee attacks. You said you were shot. Can I please get coherent arguing in here?

Ps: Death's Judgement lost it's unblockable effect since December 2018 just for your info...

My point is that he punched through my static shield from stealth, dealt enough to one shot me, and then he disappeared almost immediately after killing me. Revealed is supposed to last 4s, but he disappeared and stealthed right away.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

So he had basilisk venom which is the only unblockable interrupt he could pull out, which means no shadow meld elite could've been slotted, so he already had no means to remove revealed. Are you even trying to make a point here?Static shield stuns melee attacks. You said you were shot. Can I please get coherent arguing in here?

Ps: Death's Judgement lost it's unblockable effect since December 2018 just for your info...

My point is that he punched through my static shield from stealth, dealt enough to one shot me, and then he disappeared almost immediately after killing me. Revealed is supposed to last 4s, but he disappeared and stealthed right away.

Death's Judgement applies 1 second reveal at the start of using it (e.g. it's a way around the normal amount of "Revealed" after an attack from stealth), then it fires to hit you. Canceling Death's Judgement still means they are revealed for the 1 second. Unless you meant another stealth attack, then he is able to roll back into stealth this way after the 1 second passes.

D:

Edit: Da fuq? Don't +1 helpful to this post. It's wrong.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

So he had basilisk venom which is the only unblockable interrupt he could pull out, which means no shadow meld elite could've been slotted, so he already had no means to remove revealed. Are you even trying to make a point here?Static shield stuns melee attacks. You said you were shot. Can I please get coherent arguing in here?

Ps: Death's Judgement lost it's unblockable effect since December 2018 just for your info...

My point is that he punched through my static shield from stealth, dealt enough to one shot me, and then he disappeared almost immediately after killing me. Revealed is supposed to last 4s, but he disappeared and stealthed right away.

Death's Judgement applies 1 second reveal at the start of using it (e.g. it's a way around the normal amount of "Revealed" after an attack from stealth), then it fires to hit you. Canceling Death's Judgement still means they are revealed for the 1 second. Unless you meant another stealth attack, then he is able to roll back into stealth this way after the 1 second passes.

D:

Oh kidding it's 3 seconds. RIP. Then I have no idea how under your circumstance they did whatever. The roll for stealth is 1 second.

D:

[kash.9213]

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@archmagus.7249 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:stealth needs to be unstackable in duration ,like superspeed.

together with that, reveal should make players immune to becoming invisible, not just undo invis after some seconds. Perma-Reveal,like from new taken keeps) still opens the way to perma-stealth.

Revealed

already does this. I think you are confusing it with

Marked

.

D:

revealed? oh u mean that thing that can simply be cleansed away?also reveal from marking isnt as useful when keeping permastealth on with 0.5 seconds before the "reveal" from marked could go in action

I mean you can complain the Deadeye elite thing, sure. As for "permastealth." Do you mean for a long duration? Or that they are popping stealth on and off like flickering before Marked does it's thing?

D:

Shadow meld should not remove revealed in competitive modes. It's just too strong. "Oh you revealed me? Haha I remove it and go back to stealth, then attack you from stealth again because I can't take you on head to head."Sure thing son, remove stealth and revealed removal, overhaul it so for 6 seconds outgoing attacks are unblockable, can't be reflected or mitigated by barriers.Go ahead, it's only faire DE also get class mechanic denial on tap.

They are already unblockable. My only counter to them is reflect. I was facing off against a DE and I tried blocking him with my static shield (supposed to stun attacker and block), but instead, I was one shot from full health.

So he had basilisk venom which is the only unblockable interrupt he could pull out, which means no shadow meld elite could've been slotted, so he already had no means to remove revealed. Are you even trying to make a point here?Static shield stuns melee attacks. You said you were shot. Can I please get coherent arguing in here?

Ps: Death's Judgement lost it's unblockable effect since December 2018 just for your info...

Basilisk Venom is nice in that slot because I can sit on my Stolen Skill until I need to pop someone out of stealth and pull them or something. If I bring someone down fast, it's probably from Life leech/siphon from blinds, venom, interrupts, and stealth skills rolling out in the right sequence, otherwise I could be in some trouble.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Turamarth.3248 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:speed: 10%damage: 5%no blinks, teleports etc

while in stealth.

What would then be the use of stealth? Considering that stealth doesn't prevent any damage to yourself it would just turn you into a sitting duck. You might as well just use Alt+F4 if you want to lose a fight.

well, it would be better than currently where stealth using classes can engage and disengage at will dishing out insane amounts of damage and just run if anything goes wrong.

Thtats teleports. Youre thinking of teleports. Not stealth. If you try to disengage with stealth, you will just eat a face-full of burst and get instantly downed.

Either stealth must be removed or there must be massive downsides if using it. The current system is broken. HAS BEEN broken for 8 years.

There are massive downsides to using it. In fact, the downsides outvalue the benefit, and thats why you dont see people using stealth while fighting. Now, out of combat stealth, sure, but thats an easy solution. Yet somehow I doubt it is out of combat stealth youre complaining about.

Anet loves thieves and mesmers. But stealth as it is is utterly broken and just WRONG.

"Anet loves thieves and mesmers" yeah thats why theyre the most nerfed classes, and any time any of their builds becomes anywhere close to capable of fighting it gets instantly destroyed. Remember, they nerfed pistol/pistol thief.

[UNOwen.7132]

And as usual, people complain about the wrong element of stealth and present the worst possible solutions. Yes, out of combat stealth, where you get hit by a burst from a player you didnt even know was there is an issue. Thats solved easily just by having a max duration of stealth that cant be exceeded. But in-combat stealth, aka stealthing in the middle of a fight, is already weak. And yet inexplicably the mechanic so underpowered good thieves dont use it is the one people want nerfed to ludicrous degrees.

[zinkz.7045]

I went "roaming" on my deadeye the other day, the combo of stealth, mobility and ranged damage are the holy trinity of getting carried (for roaming) in an open world(ish) game mode, they along with a huge slice of spammable immobilise cheese carried me so, so hard.

The balance to those of course is conquest, where they are balanced out by you fighting over capture points, small maps, lots of LOS, only 5 players on each side, etc, but that of course is absent in WvW. I really wonder how bad one has to be at video games not to understand concepts like risk vs reward, but then again GW2 players get tryhard about blob vs blob, so I guess nothing should surprise me about the 2020 WvW playerbase.

But anyway after an hour or so of getting carried, I had to go play SC2 for some actual proper PvP.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Max stealth 6 sec, there no more perma stealth. Also add a 2 sec reveal ANY time a thief leaves stealth. Implement those than be done and ignore any further whining :)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"zinkz.7045" said:I went "roaming" on my deadeye the other day, the combo of stealth, mobility and ranged damage are the holy trinity of getting carried (for roaming) in an open world(ish) game mode, they along with a huge slice of spammable immobilise cheese carried me so, so hard.

The balance to those of course is conquest, where you fight over capture points, have small maps, lots of LOS, only 5 players on each side, etc, but that of course is absent in WvW, I really wonder how bad one has to be at video games not to understand concepts like risk vs reward, but then again GW2 players get tryhard about blob vs blob, so I guess nothing should surprise me about how bad / clueless the 2020 WvW playerbase is.

But anyway after an hour or so of getting carried, I had to go play SC2 for some actual proper PvP.

Really in a game like gw2 and using wvw as a example that has classes like scourge and guards and engies that exists and how insanely low their risk vs reward is it's no different than DE in a roaming scenario. If DE is a problem due to risk vs reward than a whole lot of the rosters need HUGE changes to how they perform in certain modes lol.

[Svarty.8019]

@zinkz.7045 said:I really wonder how bad one has to be at video games not to understand concepts like risk vs reward,

I invite you to watch the WvW Livestreams. www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

[MarzAttakz.9608]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:I really wonder how bad one has to be at video games not to understand concepts like risk vs reward,

I invite you to watch the WvW Livestreams. www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

:D :D :D :D

[jpsssss.7530]

Simple solution to stealth: Make Stealth a Boon. The good thieves still get to abuse stealth, and the bad ones walk into sadboi circles and die. On top of that it can be modified to force people to build into perma stealth, instead of inherently having it. It'd give better counterplay options while making it easier to balance. I see it as an absolute win!

[kash.9213]

@jpsssss.7530 said:Simple solution to stealth: Make Stealth a Boon. The good thieves still get to abuse stealth, and the bad ones walk into sadboi circles and die. On top of that it can be modified to force people to build into perma stealth, instead of inherently having it. It'd give better counterplay options while making it easier to balance. I see it as an absolute win!

I'd rather regulate the window where Stealth Attack can be used instead of making stealth a boon that has little engagement and likely wouldn't be able to be denied. Unless you have area boon rip there would be little you can do when they're already in stealth except explode them like we do now. Neither of my builds being stealth heavy I have to either do a quick two or three steps while mostly rooted with Snipers Cover or I have to get in close for Cloak and Dagger, both can be denied to prevent stealth, I feel like being a stealth-boon generator wouldn't have good tells or give good chances for counters.

[Balkarrie Legacy.9175]

@ASP.8093 said:

@Balkarrie Legacy.9175 said:Preventing stealth stomps in WvW should be the first thing ,its an offensive action and shouldn`t permit a player to remain stealthed esp that bovine scat teleport stealth stomp.Prevent players stealthing if taking damage , cut durations, limit the times you can stealth within a 15 second time frame , prevent revealed players stripping that reveal

Love this idea that a player blowing a bunch of initiative and their highest-value cooldown to make a pretty floaty unicorn pop out of your dead body is also OP now.

It prevents people interrupting the stomp doesnt it , you cant even ATTEMPT to prevent it , so yes it is ' OP ' as you put it.

[Balkarrie Legacy.9175]

So what about stomping using mist form/elixir S/stability/function gyro/stances etc? Those are ok because you can see the enemy stomping but (in most cases) do nothing about it, but stealth stomp isn't ok even though one AoE CC on the downed will stop it? Really?

Why would I bind multiple evades or stealths into a single macro? Evades don't stack so a macro would be pointless, stealth doesn't need a macro (in fact, very little in this game does) and even if it did, binding it to a macro means I'd blow everything at once and would have nothing left when it expires, meaning a quick death. This comment alone implies you have never actually played thief.

Well lets see now, supposed theres no one to apply that AoE CC .. which actually doesnt prevent it anyway , and secondly youd be very very wrong . Macros were banned for a reason in GW1 and originally 2 ... but some muppet at anet decided to change that because there's no way that anyone would have more than 1 skill bound into one right