Roaming, How Do We Fix It?

[RlyOsim.2497]

'I win all my fights' aside, roaming is actual trash atm.

How is it fixed? Is it too far gone?

[RlyOsim.2497]

My own suggestions, up the power based damage, lower sustain by a lot, reduced stealth amounts in general, removed marked for group 5 or less, do something about the trade offs for condi based damage and free defensive stats, examine mobility tradeoffs in general. I think the main point personally is that solo players have functionally zero impact on a large group atm and that's a huge problem in terms of the eco-system in general.

Truly tho, it won't be fixed and this is just the state of it is my gut feeling. Nonetheless, contributing.

[God.2708]

Roaming isn't going to be fixed until the game mode is about more than fights.

Players only positive reinforcement comes from killing other players, and the easiest way to do that is to have more players than your opponent. Path of least resistance is to add more people. There is no 'balance' change to fix this cycle. It has to come from making meaningful and useful things that only one or two people need to be doing so they interact with other individuals attempting to accomplish this and can fight over it, and teams that send more than that to do so are punished accordingly through loss of something meaningful.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

with pve stats and mobility being the deciding factor in survivability, it will never be balanced.

[XenesisII.1540]

Too far gone, too many things would need to change at this point and it won't happen.

[Justine.6351]

@RlyOsim.2497 said:My own suggestions, up the power based damage, lower sustain by a lot, reduced stealth amounts in general, removed marked for group 5 or less, do something about the trade offs for condi based damage and free defensive stats, examine mobility tradeoffs in general. I think the main point personally is that solo players have functionally zero impact on a large group atm and that's a huge problem in terms of the eco-system in general.

Truly tho, it won't be fixed and this is just the state of it is my gut feeling. Nonetheless, contributing.

This would have been it if the roaming scene hadn't already been poisoned. The skill level of the average player in roaming has tanked pretty hard the last couple years. I find myself dying to builds more than dying to players the last year or so as well. Never have I thought it would be a thing to have to kite for my life when fighting an mm necro smh...

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'd just like for there to be another balance pass for WvW. Right now, it seems like things are half-fixed, with some professions being almost useless while others being outright busted.

[manu.7539]

There is mostly 2 classes ruining roaming. Thieves and rangers are basicly anti roamers specialists and since they are so many roaming is a pain even for the most experienced. Just imagine what noobs roamers are experimenting... ouch!

[bigo.9037]

we need people to care about smaller objectives at the same we need zergs and blobs to stay away from smaller objectives.but considering we were promised more frequent small balance patches and have not even gotten this, it is clear that nothing will ever change and all resources are put into story mode which will inevitably tank the company. if you can’t have any fun with the state of the game currently i don’t think there’s hope for you. i would just quit. luckily for me i still find fun in the game.

[Clownmug.8357]

No specific issue was mentioned so I'll just say the fix involves Alliances somehow.

[Riba.3271]

1. Rework claim buff to not include combat stats. If maps are too quiet, roamers can duel around SM again.

+10% damage, movement speed bonus and +12% survivability is just too much. Especially if you include the fact that the people that interrupt duels (owners of SM) will also be stronger and win the fight many more times. Think of it, just 400 stats and 25% movement speed is worth like 1.5 rune sets. Then if you fight near keeps, for example at tunnels in overlook, it is twice that many.

Also claim buff makes it impossible for there to exist best roamer because if he is a lot stronger at his own camp and enemy is a lot stronger at theirs, it leads into best roamer winning at his and losing to even 5th best roamer at their camp.

2. Make watchtower only activate when tower is contestedWell it is as simple as most of the hotspots for smallscale fights are near enemy towers. But if you start having cool small scale fight near hotspots of roaming like NE tower, NW tower, OW, WC, QL, ton of pugs will come ruin it.

Watchtowers also bring too many people to defend camps. Yes you can sneak in camps like Danelon if you take 2 minute detour past SM granted you don't get spotted on the way. But you also waste 2 minutes for no reason.

Of course watchtower shouldn't exist in game at all but as replacing it completely would require a better idea and hard work, just nerfing so it doesn't affect passer-bys most of the time it should suffice.

3. Increase upgrade times of keeps/castles and reduce dolyak damage reduction buff when escortedIt is simple, roamers are kings of camps and dolyaks. But if there is minstrel player escorting dolly, you cant kill either. And all keeps upgrade so fast that no1 actually needs to escort dolyaks and defend camps actively. Less activity and counterplay = Boring.

4. Make shield gens not block siege fire but rather give them flat 30% damage reduction buff that also affects siegeIt is quite simple, roamers use long range catapults and trebs to bait fights. Shield gens slow that. The meta is only rams, trebs are never seen. Roamers also defend objectives and shield gens make all defensive siege useless.

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damageWell roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

Closing wordsRight now all roamers deviate towards servers that have big activity around SM. Of course if they own SM it is even better. That is because they lack purpose and dolyak wars between roamers and scouts was killed with HoT. So roaming is just purely fighting and running around aimlessly right now, there is no objective. And dueling, that made large percentage of their activity, was killed on the side.

[Cynz.9437]

They can't even balance pvp what do you expect of mode that doesn't tie people to nodes and doesn't give everyone same stats?

@"manu.7539" said:There is mostly 2 classes ruining roaming. Thieves and rangers are basicly anti roamers specialists and since they are so many roaming is a pain even for the most experienced. Just imagine what noobs roamers are experimenting... ouch!

And here we go, at one side zergs are kicking rangers and thieves due to last being "useless" on other side they complain about thieves and rangers "ruining" roaming. What a joke.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Threather.9354" said:5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damageWell roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and ass backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was because of roamers. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn. That is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Cynz.9437 imo spvp is pretty well balanced. Wvw is based on imbalance. no sense in trying to balance it anyways imo.

i'd want a general upgrade of all dmg back to the old numbers. if u nerf healing more, it just becomes useless. u cannot destroy largescale mechanics for roamer-likes, and i see a ton of your unkillable firebrands just evaporating in blobbombs.

then, after old dmg numbers, they can nerf the silly ranger/thief damage and other broken smallscale builds, so the 1v1 can still happen, but adding in and ganking stuff in seconds doesn't. currently, thief-ranger still deal absurd singletarget dmg for crazy mobility.

the only healing changes i could imagine: make healing more effective on more targets. so smallscale pocket healers wouldn't be as effective.

but eh, another nerf, yikes. the battle system of gw2 was not designed for this current babydamage.

[Zyreva.1078]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:@Cynz.9437 imo spvp is pretty well balanced. Wvw is based on imbalance. no sense in trying to balance it anyways imo.

i'd want a general upgrade of all dmg back to the old numbers. if u nerf healing more, it just becomes useless. u cannot destroy largescale mechanics for roamer-likes, and i see a ton of your unkillable firebrands just evaporating in blobbombs.

then, after old dmg numbers, they can nerf the silly ranger/thief damage and other broken smallscale builds, so the 1v1 can still happen, but adding in and ganking stuff in seconds doesn't. currently, thief-ranger still deal absurd singletarget dmg for crazy mobility.

the only healing changes i could imagine: make healing more effective on more targets. so smallscale pocket healers wouldn't be as effective.

but eh, another nerf, yikes. the battle system of gw2 was not designed for this current babydamage.

In general ranger and thief don't deal more dmg than other classes. Sure, full glass Sic'Em Soulbeast might be on the upper end of things when it comes to single target burst, but that is literally the only thing it is good at, and it is still pretty telegraphed and counterable. If you constantly get oneshot by those (or thieves for that matter), you might want to revisit your build and/or playstyle.

Also, just because 50 players can insta kill an out of position minstrel firebrand, doesn't mean there is not too much tankyness. Or should a player really be able to facetank 50 others? And it doesn't make any sense to ask for dmg buffs, if tankynness would actually be fine as you suggest.

And why should smallscale healers be any less effective than largescale healers? As if having more numbers isn't enough of an advantage. Are zerg players really that bad that they need even more hardcarry mechanics?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

[manu.7539]

@Cynz.9437 said:They can't even balance pvp what do you expect of mode that doesn't tie people to nodes and doesn't give everyone same stats?

@"manu.7539" said:There is mostly 2 classes ruining roaming. Thieves and rangers are basicly anti roamers specialists and since they are so many roaming is a pain even for the most experienced. Just imagine what noobs roamers are experimenting... ouch!

And here we go, at one side zergs are kicking rangers and thieves due to last being "useless" on other side they complain about thieves and rangers "ruining" roaming. What a joke.

Yeah I know, rangers ant thieves are in a bad spot, useless for zergs, not efficient to solo a camp and hated by roamers since the only role they are good at is to kill or annoy other roamers.

[Zyreva.1078]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:[...]since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Roaming is in a terrible state, why else do you think there are so little of us left?Mounts massively hurt roaming. Lots of the guild upgrade stuff hurts roaming (too many automatisms and imbalance) Dmg nerf hurt roamers more than zergs, because it made supports and downstate op. Sustain nerf hurt roamers more, because they can't (don't want to) stack multiple supports to carry their ass. But ofc you couldn't know, being arround for barely 2 years.

Also ganking isn't exclusive to roamers. Many zerglings will happily jump anyone fighting outnumbered - the definition of ganking.

Lastly, if you run arround alone on a build not meant to be played alone - don't expect to beat players that are actually playing builds suited for their playstyle. Has nothing to do with imbalance. Imagine i would bring my core ranger to a zerg fight and expect to strip as much boons as scourges. Ridiculous, isn't it?

[Arheundel.6451]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

Plenty of drama and bias on this forum , do you really think that your class whatever it is goes unnoticed?

Want to talk about "easy to play?"

Guardian?

I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments

[Choppy.4183]

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

Man, not for nothing, but it's super simple to avoid ranger pew pew. I roamed on all melee builds for years (full zerk gear too) and I only ate a full rapid fire if I was outplayed or had nothing left in the tank because I was fighting someone else. Now I'm on the other side of that lb and people avoid my burst all the time.

Dodge through it, block it, reflect it, break line of sight, or just tangle them up in melee. It's a channeled multi hit skill, so if you're eating the whole thing you might need to adjust your response.

Fwiw, and since you brought it up, vallun's got a whole video on how to counter rangers (and most classes, really. He's a treasure).

[bigo.9037]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

do you honestly believe roamers are only out to kill you specifically? lmao. we run builds made for fighting 1-5 people at a time. zerg builds are different. everyone will take a free kill when they walk by, same goes for blobs. every day i get ganked by a blob full of necros and fbs outnumbering me 10-1, am i supposed to cry about it? and honestly i give props to vallun for doing his part in keeping gw2 content and community alive somewhat, but he isn’t the best player in the game. i know plenty people who have killed him repeatedly in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3. myself included.

i’m not saying he isn’t good, i’m just saying he’s not the divine word of balance. just because vallun dies to something doesn’t mean what he dies to is OP, since clearly he is the best, right? no.

Edit: i forgot the most important part which is the talk about bunkers.

you try killing a minstrel tempest on thief or soulbeast who runs the trait on earth that makes you not take crit damage while attuned to earth. they literally will not die. they are impossible to kill. fb is the same pretty much, although not quite as bad. they can very easily kite and never die.

90% of the time if you pit pure glass damage spec of any class vs pure bunker minstrel, the bunker will survive, but more importantly they will not even come CLOSE to dying. this is awful game design.

[Riba.3271]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Siege wasn't buffed against siege. Do you remember the change where they doubled siege HP but made them affected by crits and condis?

Unfortunately it didn't buff siege vs siege damage so trebs and acs take twice as much time to kill rams, catas, golems etc. So you need twice as many trebs behind gate and acs on the wall. Yes you save 10 supply for offensive siege but for defending it was massive nerf.

Obviously if they only fixed that, no1 would be able to siege things but thats why shield gens blocking siege fire should be removed so trebs could be used for safe sieging against defenders.

Wall and gate HP was nerfed after introduction of claim buff and faster upgrade times, instead of the introduced overpowered things, even though defending was fairly balanced before HoT.

So in summary, siege does laughable damage against siege and walls/gates are paper. In return for combat buffs and boring T3 objective mapstates.

Nobody is saying to double the siege vs siege damage back up but maybe 40% more with the current reduced costs would be better balance.

[Justine.6351]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

[Arheundel.6451]

@bigo.9037 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

do you honestly believe roamers are only out to kill you specifically? lmao. we run builds made for fighting 1-5 people at a time. zerg builds are different. everyone will take a free kill when they walk by, same goes for blobs. every day i get ganked by a blob full of necros and fbs outnumbering me 10-1, am i supposed to cry about it? and honestly i give props to vallun for doing his part in keeping gw2 content and community alive somewhat, but he isn’t the best player in the game. i know plenty people who have killed him repeatedly in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3. myself included.

i’m not saying he isn’t good, i’m just saying he’s not the divine word of balance. just because vallun dies to something doesn’t mean what he dies to is OP, since clearly he is the best, right? no.

Edit: i forgot the most important part which is the talk about bunkers.

you try killing a minstrel tempest on thief or soulbeast who runs the trait on earth that makes you not take crit damage while attuned to earth. they literally will not die. they are impossible to kill. fb is the same pretty much, although not quite as bad. they can very easily kite and never die.

90% of the time if you pit pure glass damage spec of any class vs pure bunker minstrel, the bunker will survive, but more importantly they will not even come CLOSE to dying. this is awful game design.

There is bias on both side of the spectrum, there aren't any super roamers killing everything in sight from orbit range and neither we have super bunkers surviving nuclear strikes. Even with the earth trait, it's not like you take 0 dmg and as I play a ranger myself I can easily say that your statements are over exagerations for most part, a minstrel bunker may survive a good deal of initial burst but to say "unkillable" is way out of proportions.

GW2 in general should play more than one profession to see things from different perspectives, both tempest or a FB can't kite a sb in a million years at all, a full heal tempest or fb will eventually die.

It's very easy for both thief and soulbeast to draw defenses from bunkers with constant poison application forcing CD and bad rotations

[kash.9213]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

You're really over selling it. Even when I go down to about 16.5 - 17k health from my usual 20 and only a little toughness from runes and food I'm not likely to get one burst by another thief or ranger. I'd have to be way more glass while ignoring my own mitigation because I'm zeroed in on trying to kill someone else to get burst down like you're talking about because I've gassed out already. One of my sequences will feel like a one shot to you but I don't do very much damage. Most of what I'll do to you is take a lot of stuff away and interrupt you trying to get it back while hitting raw Health. And even when you get your mitigation back some of what my build is doing is just making you hurt yourself for doing stuff, like modified interrupts or confusion, and some people do a lot of stuff when they're scrambled.

I think you're just not paying attention or checking yourself when you get exploded and just assume it's an overpowered issue.