Resurrection speed is completely out of control

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The fact that hand ressing was never updated to match the damage nerf overhaul last year already had res options sitting in a position of being overtuned. Now with the latest patch and reworks of support it's just completely insane.

This needs a solution sooner rather than later. F ressing shouldn't be anywhere near as fast as it is right now. The meta is starting to drift more and more towards team comps that are designed to win by carrying enough res options to res each other over and over without penalty rather than actually playing well. It's not going to get better. The more people who come to understand how broken and abusable it is, the bigger a problem it's going to be.

[Aktium.9506]

The key is to nerf manual ressing without making downed cleave more effective than it already is.

Cleave should just never be in a position where it's the way to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

[Zyreva.1078]

Agree @"Master Ketsu.4569"

Damage, sustain and even safe stomping options of "alive" players got nerfed pretty heavily, yet downstate and reviving remain unchanged. Should be pretty obvious, that the result can't be balanced. It is not like downstate/ressing were too weak in the past.

@Aktium.9506 said:Cleave should just never be in a position where it's the way to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

Then you would first and foremost have to change stomping. Because being forced into a stationary 3 1/2 s long channel is not something you want to do while in the middle of a bunch of enemies a lot of the time, no matter the res speed or cleave. Tho nerfing res speed would still help, as it would be a little less likely that the downed player gets picked up before the stomp goes through. Which - as it is now - will almost always happen, if there is someone ressing, but no cleave.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The fact that hand ressing was never updated to match the damage nerf overhaul last year already had res options sitting in a position of being overtuned. Now with the latest patch and reworks of support it's just completely insane.

This needs a solution sooner rather than later. F ressing shouldn't be anywhere near as fast as it is right now. The meta is starting to drift more and more towards team comps that are designed to win by carrying enough res options to res each other over and over without penalty rather than actually playing well. It's not going to get better. The more people who come to understand how broken and abusable it is, the bigger a problem it's going to be.

I've been saying this for awhile now. After heal stats were gutted, the best support is just turning into abusing revive options.

It's creating an unusual balance situation:

1. No need for dedicated support role anymore because reviving is best support and team fighter/roamer/side node is obviously better combat mechanically.
2. Only about half the classes in the game or less can even bring special revive options that conveniently fit into viable pvp builds.
3. Game is now full of team fight/roamer/side node play where some of them are able to really exploit reviving, where others only basic revive.

So there are two problems really. The first being that revive power in general is way too high. The second being that some classes have special revive options which are at this point completely broken and exploitive.

Some of you may not recognize this yet ^ but oh boy you wait till this next 2s or 3s season and this problem is really going to shine through.

[Aktium.9506]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:Cleave should just never be in a position where it's

the way

to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

Then you would first and foremost have to change stomping. Because being forced into a stationary 3 1/2 s long channel is not something you want to do while in the middle of a bunch of enemies a lot of the time, no matter the res speed or cleave. Tho nerfing res speed would still help, as it would be a little less likely that the downed player gets picked up before the stomp goes through. Which - as it is now - will almost always happen, if there is someone ressing, but no cleave.They could definitely try something like halving ress speed but giving a slight damage reduction or something to people ressing, dunno where the sweet spot would be exactly. Longer time to ress does mean more opportunities to get stomped.

This does also mean all the ress utilites would have to rebalanced to have a significant enough drawbacks that affect every build type to justify their existence without being overpowered. Something like Signet of Mercy putting Virtues on a 15 second cooldown, Signet of Undeath locking you out of Shroud for 10 seconds, Warbanner freezing Adrenaline generation, Glyph of Renewal locking attunement switching for a few seconds after use, Elixir R having a similar effect on Toolbelt skills etc.

Imagine if we had a PTS server for stuff like this.

[Zyreva.1078]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:Cleave should just never be in a position where it's

the way

to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

Then you would first and foremost have to change stomping. Because being forced into a stationary 3 1/2 s long channel is not something you want to do while in the middle of a bunch of enemies a lot of the time, no matter the res speed or cleave. Tho nerfing res speed would still help, as it would be a little less likely that the downed player gets picked up before the stomp goes through. Which - as it is now - will almost always happen, if there is someone ressing, but no cleave.They could definitely try something like halving ress speed but giving a slight damage reduction or something to people ressing, dunno where the sweet spot would be exactly. Longer time to ress does mean more opportunities to get stomped.

Why would you give ressing players free dmg reduction tho? Ressing already has multiple advantages over stomping, so even if the speed ends up getting nerfed, there is no need for compensatory buffs.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Ok guys listen this 'cause it's gonna be a real game changer

CC and poison

[Aktium.9506]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:Cleave should just never be in a position where it's

the way

to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

Then you would first and foremost have to change stomping. Because being forced into a stationary 3 1/2 s long channel is not something you want to do while in the middle of a bunch of enemies a lot of the time, no matter the res speed or cleave. Tho nerfing res speed would still help, as it would be a little less likely that the downed player gets picked up before the stomp goes through. Which - as it is now - will almost always happen, if there is someone ressing, but no cleave.They could definitely try something like halving ress speed but giving a slight damage reduction or something to people ressing, dunno where the sweet spot would be exactly. Longer time to ress does mean more opportunities to get stomped.

Why would you give ressing players free dmg reduction tho? Ressing already has multiple advantages over stomping, so even if the speed ends up getting nerfed, there is no need for compensatory buffs.

I dunno man. The damage in the current meta is actually high enough that ressing someone in a teamfight would be fully impossible if it wasn't as fast as it is. Prolonging the ress time alongside the current level of damage might just make manual ressing unfeasible as a whole. And that would also be bad.

[Zyreva.1078]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:Cleave should just never be in a position where it's

the way

to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

Then you would first and foremost have to change stomping. Because being forced into a stationary 3 1/2 s long channel is not something you want to do while in the middle of a bunch of enemies a lot of the time, no matter the res speed or cleave. Tho nerfing res speed would still help, as it would be a little less likely that the downed player gets picked up before the stomp goes through. Which - as it is now - will almost always happen, if there is someone ressing, but no cleave.They could definitely try something like halving ress speed but giving a slight damage reduction or something to people ressing, dunno where the sweet spot would be exactly. Longer time to ress does mean more opportunities to get stomped.

Why would you give ressing players free dmg reduction tho? Ressing already has multiple advantages over stomping, so even if the speed ends up getting nerfed, there is no need for compensatory buffs.

I dunno man. The damage in the current meta is actually high enough that ressing someone in a teamfight would be fully impossible if it wasn't as fast as it is. Prolonging the ress time alongside the current level of damage might just make manual ressing unfeasible as a whole. And that would also be bad.

Ultimatively the whole point is to make ressing less feasible. It simpy shouldn't be the main aspekt of survival in teamfights.And still wouldn't be worse than stomping in a similar situation. Players should have to invest thought and resources into a res ( eg. use defensive skills) instead of just mindlessly pressing F whenever they can. Ressing still has the advantage of getting speed up by multiple players as well as certain traits and skills and you don't lose your entire progress upon interrupt. Stomping has no ways of speeding up the process and if interrupted you have to go through the entire channel again.

[Aktium.9506]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Ultimatively the whole point is to make ressing less feasible.Ressing should definitely be a core pillar of the combat loop in PvP, it should just be more tactical and less monkebrained F pressing.

It simpy shouldn't be the main aspekt of survival in teamfights.I mean, I agree there. That should be kiting, positioning and active defenses.And still wouldn't be worse than stomping in a similar situation. Players should have to invest thought and resources into a res ( eg. use defensive skills) instead of just mindlessly pressing F whenever they can. Ressing still has the advantage of getting speed up by multiple players as well as certain traits and skills and you don't lose your entire progress upon interrupt.That's true. It really should move more towards active skill use being the preferred method of ressing.

Stomping has no ways of speeding up the process and if interrupted you have to go through the entire channel again.But what if they made stomping a slightly longer cast, but it keeps the cast bar progression after interruption until you resume?

[Dadnir.5038]

Don't we just need all professions to have a finishing blow like daredevil's elite skillchain and warrior's battle standard? I mean, weaver's tailored victory, Reaper's chill to the bone, engineer's supply crate and Revenant shiro's Jade wind could be stomps as well (Ranger, guardian and mesmer don't seem to have fitting skills for that at the moment). It would be enough to bring balance between rallying skills and stomping skills.

[UNOwen.7132]

Ressing isnt the issue. The lack of damage is. We just need damage buffs across the board.

[Zyreva.1078]

@Aktium.9506 said:

But what if they made stomping a slightly longer cast, but it keeps the cast bar progression after interruption until you resume?

But why? The mechanics of downstate, ressing and stomping are fine imo. Just the numbers are a bit off.

@Dadnir.5038 said:(Ranger, [...] don't seem to have fitting skills for that at the moment).

Stomping pets ftw!

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Jumping on someone should deal 10% downed health damage.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

just wait until ppl start taking necro res sig and the sig trait. i'm gonna be sad when that trait gets destroyed because of it.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just wait until ppl start taking necro res sig and the sig trait. i'm gonna be sad when that trait gets destroyed because of it.

Actually.. I noticed lately that sig of spite trait is just randomly not working at all in any mode. The passives it is supposed to enhance does nothing. Not sure if it still allows quick recharge while in shroud though.

I probably should report that in the bug section.

[Downstate.4697]

Lets slap a 300s cd and call it a day. Maybe give more instant stomp options like daredevil and warrior have

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:just wait until ppl start taking necro res sig and the sig trait. i'm gonna be sad when that trait gets destroyed because of it.

Actually.. I noticed lately that sig of spite trait is just randomly not working at all in any mode. The passives it is supposed to enhance does nothing. Not sure if it still allows quick recharge while in shroud though.

I probably should report that in the bug section.

the cd recharge and passives in shroud are working, dunno about enhanced effects.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Lets slap a 300s cd and call it a day. Maybe give more instant stomp options like daredevil and warrior have

yes, from OP revives to OP stomps, how about middle ground eh ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Lets slap a 300s cd and call it a day. Maybe give more instant stomp options like daredevil and warrior have

yes, from OP revives to OP stomps, how about middle ground eh ?

So no downstate? J/K. Let's bring damage back up instead by returning damage to CCs.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Lets slap a 300s cd and call it a day. Maybe give more instant stomp options like daredevil and warrior have

yes, from OP revives to OP stomps, how about middle ground eh ?

So no downstate? J/K. Let's bring damage back up instead by returning damage to CCs.

there is so many ways to fix it its actually mindshattering that NOTHING is actually being tried.1 reducing revive speed2 increasing damage3 specific anti-revive mechanics ( increased damage taken when reviving for example )4 poison buff against downed enemies5 revive cooldown ( if you get rupted, you have X sec before you can try again )6 bleed out speed increase ( or gradually increase over time ) ( along with encro trait change, instead off removing bleedout it slows it down, you have 0 bleedout at the start, but as it increases, trait becomes weaker and weaker )

[Exile.8160]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Ok guys listen this 'cause it's gonna be a real game changer

CC and poison

Ssdly no one wants to bring them hahaha they just want an easy game.

[Shao.7236]

@Aktium.9506 said:The key is to nerf manual ressing without making downed cleave more effective than it already is.

Cleave should just never be in a position where it's the way to finish a downed foe over securing an actual stomp.

So they should still have reduce it a little. Because even if we don't want cleaving to be the better option over finishing. It doesn't mean that reviving should overcome it. Cleaving should at least prevent it from being this easy.

[RedAvenged.5217]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Ok guys listen this 'cause it's gonna be a real game changer

CC and poison

Had an at with some old gw2 players, we were about to snowball a match but then they glyph rezzed someone who downed with 1% hp and poison on their body.

There is no more cleave + poison in this meta since you can just go transference and monk

[Fueki.4753]

If they are ever going to nerf reviving, I hope they also are going to nerf stomping and remove safe-stomping in the same update.