Reactions to the Finale, Judgment [Poll]

[Deadly.3298]

Not really surprised, the storytelling of this game never lived up to a fraction of what GW1's was,  I'm sure all of the writers that worked on GW1 never laid a finger on GW2 though. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Deadly.3298

[Obfuscate.6430]

I feel like there was a longer story that got cut short for some unknown reason. When it ended, I thought there would be more. The Asura were driven from their home lands underground and the Dwarves sacrificed their flesh - because of Primordis. I did not see any asuran or dwarven forces on the field in the final fight. I felt like it was the main cast of heroes and a scattering of Pact and some charr forces. The final cinematic of the dragons fighting and allegedly ending each other did NOT look conclusive whatsoever. We didn't get to check out their bodies to confirm.  And all that build up with Aurene? No matter how far out my field of view was set to, I couldn't see her so much as hear her during the fight. 
While the instance makes use of some mechanics we learned to work with her when she grew up, I didn't really feel like I was working WITH her. 
The previous chapters made a big deal out of the bow that could kill  Jormag but where was it in the end? I kind of thought Primordis would imbue the arrows or something; or in the very least it would be mentioned why it wasn't of use anymore. 
And finally...
excuse me but...
Where is Zojja. 
EVEN NOW there is NO mention of her. 
Maybe all of the asuran armies were visiting her in the hospital that day. 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

16 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

I feel like there was a longer story that got cut short for some unknown reason. When it ended, I thought there would be more. The Asura were driven from their home lands underground and the Dwarves sacrificed their flesh - because of Primordis. I did not see any asuran or dwarven forces on the field in the final fight. I felt like it was the main cast of heroes and a scattering of Pact and some charr forces.

If you look at the Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik fights, when you get to actually fighting the dragon itself there aren't large numbers of allied forces on the field. Much like the actual Mouth of Mordremoth fight in Dragon's Stand, its typically just major NPCs, like the NPCs on the floating islands. This is exactly how the direct fight between Jormag and Primordus works, only the major NPCs of the arc like Taimi, Braham, Rytlock, Caithe, Jhavi, etc. are present.

 

The allied NPC forces typcially only show up during the build up phase of the dragon meta, fighting down the lanes of Dragon's Stand, or setting up the camps in Dragonfall. This part of the meta was replaced with the DRMs, and the Asura, Dwarves, Kodan, etc. do show up there in numbers.

[StrangeSelcouth nz.9256]

It would be great if ArenaNeT provided feedback on WHY they executed Jormag and Primordus like that. When I am roaming in open world, and I encounter minions of these dragons, or areas influenced by them, it pains me. There needs to be some dialogue between the creators and the fans, about the lore of a game that they (supposedly) both love.

 

Years of content, thrown away like that... why? Due to the finale of Champions, I just see the lore as pointless. Which is really something, because I LOVE the Guild Wars universe, but now it lost it's spark. 

 

I can't really say that ArenaNet will redeem themselves through the EoD release, as the damage is done. I just hope that they are taking note of our feedback about this Champions Finale, and give importance to the lore again. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by StrangeSelcouth nz.9256

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, StrangeSelcouth nz.9256 said:

It would be great if ArenaNeT provided feedback on WHY they executed Jormag and Primordus like that. When I am roaming in open world, and I encounter minions of these dragons, or areas influenced by them, it pains me. There needs to be some dialogue between the creators and the fans, about the lore of a game that they (supposedly) both love.

 

Years of content, thrown away like that... why? Due to the finale of Champions, I just see the lore as pointless. Which is really something, because I LOVE the Guild Wars universe, but now it lost it's spark. 

 

I can't really say that ArenaNet will redeem themselves through the EoD release, as the damage is done. I just hope that they are taking note of our feedback about this Champions Finale, and give importance to the lore again. 

It was established all the way back in Living World Season 3 that Jormag and Primoruds were each other's weaknesses.

 

Taimi originally built a machine to shoot their energy at each other, in the form of energy beams, to kill them both at the same time. That machine was destroyed in our attempt to stop Balthazar, and it used parts that couldn't be replaced, so the only logical means left to of for killing them was to get them to fight each other directly.

 

How else would we get them to kill each other because having them shoot their energy at each other and thus cancel each other out like matter/anti matter? Anyone who played LWS3 could tell you this was how they would die... because this is how we almost killed them in LWS3, since LWS3 established this was the only way to kill them.

 

Was there a mass uptick in amnesia the last 4 years since LWS3 ended or something?

Edited May 25, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Bast.7253]

8 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

It was established all the way back in Living World Season 3 that Jormag and Primoruds were each other's weaknesses.

 

Taimi originally built a machine to shoot their energy at each other, in the form of energy beams, to kill them both at the same time. That machine was destroyed in our attempt to stop Balthazar, and it used parts that couldn't be replaced, so the only logical means left to of for killing them was to get them to fight each other directly.

 

How else would we get them to kill each other because having them shoot their energy at each other and thus cancel each other out like matter/anti matter? Anyone who played LWS3 could tell you this was how they would die... because this is how we almost killed them in LWS3, since LWS3 established this was the only way to kill them.

 

Was there a mass uptick in amnesia the last 4 years since LWS3 ended or something?

To be fair, that was a LONG time ago and a few brief lines of dialogue. Until I replayed the Flashpoint episode I didn't realize that they pretty much said that the ONLY shot they have at Primordus and Jormag is using them against each other, i.e. they're their only weaknesses.

So yeah, if I had replayed that beforehand it might have made a little more sense that they both had to die in the way they did in this episode. I mean, the means in which they got there wasn't the greatest, nor the fight, but it's clear there wasn't ever going to be any this one or that one scenario after that replay. 

I still find it strange that they behave like that though considering Mordremoth and Zhaitan would presumably be each other's opposites and we found other ways of killing them. It seems like there would have to be some there weaknesses of Primordus and Jormag to exploit besides each other. 

I'm sure had the story gone on further they could have written something in, though I have no idea what Primordus' other weakness could have been had they gone that route. 

[TheBravery.9615]

The story in this game is akin to some fan fiction where everything is explained by mAgiC

[Wintermute.5408]

I never really cared about story in GW2, as it barely gets to the "allright" bar. Nor did I ever play GW1. Yet even for me the shafting of Primordus was extremely lame, and an utterly missed opportunity.

 

IBS is THE Jormag story. In that regard, it's one of the best pieces of plot in the game. Primordus is badly duct-taped to it, and just feels out of place. He should have just killed Jormag in the end of the story, and kittened off to Cantha - after all, he can move around absolutely freely. And then in expansion we could have been dealing with 2 dragons, still technically being polar opposites, both overfed due to consuming Jormag/ just being left alone for those 10+ years. Stakes would have been that much higher, while hopefully having more breathing room for 2 dragons than in IBS.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I gave it a 'Neutral" vote.

 

I had expected that the finale would be on par with the rest of the Champions launch, not great, but serviceable content given the challenges faced with releasing it.  I personally haven't enjoyed this content but it is what it is, and it isn't buggy or broken.

 

The alternative is I wouldn't be logging in as there is nothing to play until the expansion save for a couple festivals coming up.  As such, I think it better to have passable but bad content as opposed to no content.

[Thundarr.7186]

I have to admit, I found it very disappointing. Primordus was like the end game boss and you end up killing him in a living story pretty much. I thought killing Kralk in a living story episode was uninspired, but Jormag and Primordus in the same time is just shockingly uninspired and an awful choice.

Primordus was pretty much the emblem of the game and everyone was scared of him waking up, only to have him and Jormag kill each other in a 10 minute instance.

It's just... disappointing, I would have thought Primordus deserves an expansion of his own, not a measly 10 minutes.

 

[Mik.3401]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:18 PM, Crono.4197 said:

I hope this thread will stay and ArenaNet won't delete it, like the old one, which had tons of votes and over 150 comments.

 

I will post the same answer that I posted on the deleted thread and another thread, because I can't find better words to use for this release than those:

 

Worst ending that could have been. Killing Primordus together with Jormag? Primordus didn't even have an arc of his own, he was just there for 10 minutes and then boom, bye bye forever. I usually defend pretty much everything that ArenaNet does, but this time it was so bad that it made me ask myself why I even play this game anymore, if they're going to ruin the story. Jormag was rushed but at least had some development in Icebrood Saga. Primordus, the Elder Dragon that had a presence in Guild Wars: Eye of the North, the one who caused the asura and skritt to go to the surface and for the dwarves to disappear from the face of Tyria, the big bad of the franchise...disappeared just like that, just for the sake of rushing story.

 

And the execution of it, don't even get me started....yeah you go in an instance for 10 minutes, the dragons look at each other JoJo's Bizzare Adventure style, and then they fight for 3 seconds, Jormag spits a beam and they both explode. This finale was done just for the Saga to end, ArenaNet don't seem to care about the story of this game and this worries me, because it's the thing that kept me in this franchise for so long. The story got worse..and worse...and worse, but each time I said that it's ArenaNet's game, that they can do what they want with it, that something amazing will come out eventually...but that never happened. Instead, we got a rushed ending.

 

ArenaNet, you disappointed me for the first time ever. I thought you guys were better than this and that you would end up the saga amazingly to make up for how lackluster Champions episodes were. I was wrong. With Primordus dead and the Sea Dragon having basically no lore in the game, what do I have left now? I don't care about raids, pvp and all that. The story and lore were what mattered the most to me and you butchered them. But I'm pretty sure you guys won't care, keep pumping items in that Gem Store instead, I'm sure that will help a lot and keep players happy...not.

 

And deleting posts that show you the mistakes you made and ways to improve the release? Really ArenaNet?

Exactly my thoughts on story these days. The lacklustre fights and overextended dialogues with no substance seem to be kind of a cheap way to fill the gaps in player experience.

 

most of all it makes me quite worried about the state of the company. I know they are trying by giving us loads of information recently and being more present which is amazing. It’s just the content itself is hmm... not getting better let’s say. Hopefully it means they moved all the funds to EoD

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 5/24/2021 at 11:45 AM, StrangeSelcouth nz.9256 said:

It would be great if ArenaNeT provided feedback on WHY they executed Jormag and Primordus like that.

Employees can't really comment on company policy but we have surmised that "those up high" said cut IBS off early and work on EOD. They were then left scrambling with fitting everything into a few releases. It looks like everything up to Drizzlewood was how it was suppose to be and then Champions was the "scrambling." We were probly scheduled a few more chapters and maybe one more map to flesh them all out. I still think they were going to kill eachother but having it rushed still cheapens it.

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Mik.3401 said:

Exactly my thoughts on story these days. The lacklustre fights and overextended dialogues with no substance seem to be kind of a cheap way to fill the gaps in player experience.

 

most of all it makes me quite worried about the state of the company. I know they are trying by giving us loads of information recently and being more present which is amazing. It’s just the content itself is hmm... not getting better let’s say. Hopefully it means they moved all the funds to EoD

I am very hopeful but EOD better contain amazing elite specs, dungeons/strikes/storymode raids, better loot compensation, Something for PVP and WVW, player housing or something we havn't thought of. It HAS to blow us away.

[Mik.3401]

12 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I am very hopeful but EOD better contain amazing elite specs, dungeons/strikes/storymode raids, better loot compensation, Something for PVP and WVW, player housing or something we havn't thought of. It HAS to blow us away.

All of the new additions you have mentioned are desperately needed now, but I fear implementing them may be too big to handle for Anet. But I really hope I am wrong

[HotDelirium.7984]

13 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

All of the new additions you have mentioned are desperately needed now, but I fear implementing them may be too big to handle for Anet. But I really hope I am wrong

Too big to handle? They've had a lot of time...what over a year and then some to create so they better bring it. There are no excuses now.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

20 hours ago, Thundarr.7186 said:

It's just... disappointing, I would have thought Primordus deserves an expansion of his own, not a measly 10 minutes.

• Zhaitan: Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, + Arah dragon fight
• Mordremoth: Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, Tangled Depths, + Dragon's Stand dragon fight
• Kralkatorrik: Domain of Vabbi, Jahai Bluffs, Thunderhead Peaks, + Dragonfall dragon fight
• Jormag: Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood Coast + Dragonstorm dragon fight
• Primordus: Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, the DRMs, + Dragonstorm dragon fight

 

Primordus got more then just 10 minutes, he got pretty much the exact same amount of story content the other dragons did. Had Champions not existed he would have gotten one new map(likely in the Centaur Homelands), and then we would have gone into the Dragonstorm meta battle where both died. Its the same 3 maps + a dragon fight Anet had used since Zhaitan.

 

And while he didn't get his 3rd map, all the story stuff they would have done on that map was moved to the DRMs. so you can't even really say he lost any story time either.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Tortoiseshell Sweep.3265]

37 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

• Zhaitan: Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, Cursed Shore, + Arah dragon fight
• Mordremoth: Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, Tangled Depths, + Dragon's Stand dragon fight
• Kralkatorrik: Domain of Vabbi, Jahai Bluffs, Thunderhead Peaks, + Dragonfall dragon fight
• Jormag: Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood Coast + Dragonstorm dragon fight
• Primordus: Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, the DRMs, + Dragonstorm dragon fight

 

Primordus got more then just 10 minutes, he got pretty much the exact same amount of story content the other dragons did. Had Champions not existed he would have gotten one new map(likely in the Centaur Homelands), and then we would have gone into the Dragonstorm meta battle where both died. Its the same 3 maps + a dragon fight Anet had used since Zhaitan.

 

And while he didn't get his 3rd map, all the story stuff they would have done on that map was moved to the DRMs. so you can't even really say he lost any story time either.

 

That's far too simplistic an analysis, and misses the point. The complaint isn't about the number of maps with destroyer minions or dragon influence, it's about the story and interactions between the hero (the player character) and the villain (particularly Primordus, though the Jormag arc also felt rushed to the end).

 

Although Primordus has been around since EOTN and we even met him in S3E5, he has never actually been active in our presence, just a lurking menace. Given his stature as the first of the elder dragons, and all the build up, he deserved to actually DO something to justify that stature. As it was he was rushed off stage before he ever really arrived.

 

The whole Champions chapter felt rushed, dropped plot lines, and failed to justify the build up. That's why I'm disappointed, and whatever happens with EOD this will remain a low point that could (and should) have been so much more.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Tortoiseshell Sweep.3265 said:

That's far too simplistic an analysis, and misses the point. The complaint isn't about the number of maps with destroyer minions or dragon influence, it's about the story and interactions between the hero (the player character) and the villain (particularly Primordus, though the Jormag arc also felt rushed to the end).

 

Although Primordus has been around since EOTN and we even met him in S3E5, he has never actually been active in our presence, just a lurking menace. Given his stature as the first of the elder dragons, and all the build up, he deserved to actually DO something to justify that stature. As it was he was rushed off stage before he ever really arrived.

 

The whole Champions chapter felt rushed, dropped plot lines, and failed to justify the build up. That's why I'm disappointed, and whatever happens with EOD this will remain a low point that could (and should) have been so much more.

He did. He

• Attempted to cause, or greatly accelerate, multiple large scale volcanic explosions in an attempt to empower his minions, and cause widespread destruction(Mount Malestrom, Ember Bay, Draconis Mons)
• Attacked Tarir, and tried to kill Aurene shortly after she hatched
• Launched a large scale invasion of Tyria that almost resulted in the destruction of Rata Sum, Watchful Source and Skrittsburgh, the Ascalonian Settlement, Ebonhawke, the Dragonsblood Weapon Forge, and the Flame Citadel

 

In fact, I would say Champions actually helped in this third point. GW2 has always had the issue where we are told the Elder Dragons are such a big problem, but most of their minions are out in the middle of nowhere(Orr, Forstgorge, the Maguma). Had IBS gone on like they originally planned, Primordus's invasion would have been limited to the Centaur Homelands. Champions let them spread it out all over the game world, and actually make Primordus one of the most successfully destructive dragons besides maybe Kralkatorrik.

 

Not to mention we only saw Zhaitan and Mordremoth active before us right before we killed them. Before that we just fought their minions.

 

And what dropped plotline? The only thing that could be reasonably stated to be dropped is the bow, but that became irrelevant when Braham got an even greater power.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Harfang.1507]

Yes, Primordus undeservedly got the short end of ArenaNet's change in focus. I hear many are so disgusted that they question how much they are still willing to invest in this game. Some are demanding or hoping for something epic in EoD for ArenaNet to redeem itself. And so should we all.

Here is one major issue I see: Zhaitan, Primordus, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, all of these were household names at launch. Mordremoth? He had two Living World seasons as a buildup before getting his own expansion, one that seems to have aged well judging by how busy its maps still are. That sixth and last elder dragon? That nobody is suppose to suddenly capture our imagination? The franchise is 16 years old; GW2 will soon be nine years old. We get under two years to get excited about a dragon whose name we don't even know? That is a tall order . . .

[Nico.9361]

It was all a bit rushed. That's probably why we've seen only the heads.

It is a bit disappointing that we didn't get some kind of epic battle with the dragons. Did we need one though?
I'm very glad that we got our Norn friend back.
Not a fan of grinding. As with many things I don't particularly like, I simply don't do that.

Overall: 2 dragons down, one more to go. Meh. Let's move on to EOD 😅

[Faridah.8431]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:46 AM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If you look at the Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik fights, when you get to actually fighting the dragon itself there aren't large numbers of allied forces on the field. Much like the actual Mouth of Mordremoth fight in Dragon's Stand, its typically just major NPCs, like the NPCs on the floating islands. This is exactly how the direct fight between Jormag and Primordus works, only the major NPCs of the arc like Taimi, Braham, Rytlock, Caithe, Jhavi, etc. are present.

 

The allied NPC forces typcially only show up during the build up phase of the dragon meta, fighting down the lanes of Dragon's Stand, or setting up the camps in Dragonfall. This part of the meta was replaced with the DRMs, and the Asura, Dwarves, Kodan, etc. do show up there in numbers.

You're missing the larger point.

 

While the climax was a huge letdown it was also everything leading up to it. Once Primordus came into the picture, we didn't really explore lore and story branches in any meaningful or impactful way with regards to the Asura or Dwarves who as races both introduction and disappearance respectively relate entirely to Primordus. 

 

With regards to Jormag, we didn't really delve into more story paths hinted at in the original trailer with the Kodan or the Centaurs for that matter. 

 

The Charr civil war seemed rather limited to Drizzlewood and I felt could have been fleshed out even more.

 

I think it's clear a lot of these things were probably planned until development work shifted to EOD and IBS probably had little more than a skeleton crew to finish it out and in doing so the remaining story/lore suffered.

 

And if HOT was the Sylvari's expansion, POF was the Human's, well I think the Charr and Norn got shafted in IBS if that was theirs.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

On 6/16/2021 at 1:27 PM, Faridah.8431 said:

You're missing the larger point.

 

While the climax was a huge letdown it was also everything leading up to it. Once Primordus came into the picture, we didn't really explore lore and story branches in any meaningful or impactful way with regards to the Asura or Dwarves who as races both introduction and disappearance respectively relate entirely to Primordus.

No, you're missing the larger point. We did do those things, in some cases years ago.

 

For the Asura. The big Asura story everyone wanted was us going underground, finding a lost Asuran city, learning more about the Asura who stayed underground to try to keep fighting Primordus, finding some lost technology/research they made to defeat Primrodus, using that to defeat the dragon, and dealing with the Inquest trying to steal it. Guess what, this story was covered all the way back in HoT and LWS3. Back then we

• Went underground(in Tangled Depths)
• Found a lost Asuran city(Rata Novus)
• Learned more about the Asura who stayed underground to keep fighting Primordus(the Rata Novans)
• Found research/technology they made in regards to defeating Primordus(The dragon lab in Rata Novus)
• We used that research/technology to defeat Primordus(Taimi used it to discover that Primordus and Jormag are each other's weaknesses, which we exploited to kill them in IBS)
• Dealt with the Inquest trying to steal said technology/research(Inquest were in Draconis Mons trying to steal the secrets of the Rata Novans who had fled there)

And a good chunk of this happened in the Ember bay and Draconis Mons releases... both of which were Primordus centric. This idea that the Primordus story didn't heavily deal with the Asura is just demonstrably wrong.

 

The same is true of the Dwarves

• Back in vanilla we extensively covered almost all of the old Dwarven lands, from Iron Horse Mines in the North, to Droknar's Forge and Port Sledge in the south. Ogden showed up as a character we got to interact with. And there was extensive events, hearts, and a dungeon, focused on the Dredge, the race formally enslaved by the Dwarves, who viewed themselves as the Dwarves' successors.
• In the Ember Bay release for LWS3(Primordus focused) we got introduced to a new stone Dwarf, Rhoban. He helped us stop Primordus for accelerating the volcano's build up by telling us how to use the ancient Dwarven machines that keep the volcanoes in check.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story continued in PoF. There, in the Desert Highlands, Rhoban is part of a Priory expedition into an ancient Dwarven citadel, now infested with Destroyers(Primordus's minions). There we help him uncover the secrets of the fortress, and find pieces to reforge a set of ancient Dwarven weapons.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story was again continued in LWS4. There we get to go to Thunderhead Peaks, the last major Dwarven area not covered in core, where Rhoban is once again part of a Priory group examining the ruins. Not only todo we get to go aorund the ruins, we finally get to go inside the ancient Dwarven Citadel where we find the legacy of the Dwarves, the Dragonsblood weapon forge they left behind for us to use against Kralk. We also find the ghost of the dwarf who made the orignal spear, who helps us make more, and there is an entire Dragonsblood weapon collection where we collect the stories of the ancient dwarven heroes.
• This release also expanded upon the Dredge storyline. Allowing us to make peace with a colony of Dredge(The Dwarves successors) who not only lend us their technology, but join us in the fight against the Dragon. Bringing the Dredge story to a close.
• The Dwarven story was AGAIN continued in Icebrood Saga. The Steel and Fire Vision of the Past Update took us to a far flung Dwarven citadel where we learn about what happened to most of the Stone Summit. Most of the Summit rejoined the Deldrimor, but those that didn't tried to fight the power of the Great Dwarf's magic by using Primordus's magic, causing them to get corrupted, and he have to fight them and some Destroyers they tamed.

Much like the Asura story, claims that the game didn't cover the Dwarves' story, especially in regards to Primrodus, are just wrong. Before IBS even began we had covered all the old Dwarven lands, dealt with several instances of Destroyers in Dwarven ruins/locations, found the legacy of the Dwarves and used it, and made peace with the Dwarves' successors. All that was left for IBS to do was what it did, have the remaining Stone Dwarves surface to help fight the Destroyers.

On 6/16/2021 at 1:27 PM, Faridah.8431 said:

With regards to Jormag, we didn't really delve into more story paths hinted at in the original trailer with the Kodan or the Centaurs for that matter....

I think it's clear a lot of these things were probably planned until development work shifted to EOD and IBS probably had little more than a skeleton crew to finish it out and in doing so the remaining story/lore suffered.

Except we did delve into the Kodan story. That was what the 2nd part of Bjora was for.

• We found an isolated Kodan village
• Learned more about their history, culture, and naming conventions(funeral pyres, ice fishing, their thoughts on the whole Norn/Kodan story, several books about history/naming patterns)
• We helped them get their village back on track(taking care of things in the area for the mastery which changes the settlement a bit)
• Then they return the favor by joining the battle against the Dragon's minions(the DRMs)

 

The Centaur stuff was going to be the episode 5/6 map dealing with Primrodus' rising like the first 5 DRMs did, so yeah, that one part got cut. But everything else you listed was rather extensively covered in IBS, or before.

On 6/16/2021 at 1:27 PM, Faridah.8431 said:

And if HOT was the Sylvari's expansion, POF was the Human's, well I think the Charr and Norn got shafted in IBS if that was theirs.

But why though? IBS as is covered all of the major Norn/Charr plot threads

 

For the Norn

• We got to go back to the old Norn lands(Bjora Marches/Drizzlewood), and got to visit several of the prominent old Norn settlements(Longeye's Ledge, Jora's Homestead, Sifhala)
• We got to visit the place Asgier fought Frostfang and Jormag, and learned the truth about that encounter(Asgier's Legacy/The Burden journal)
• The Spirits of the Wild played a major part in the storyline(Raven in Ep1. Wolf in EP2. Ox, Wolverine, and Eagle in Eps2/4. Owl in the Snowden DRM. All four of the major Spirits in the Wildfire volcano trip)
• Jhavi was able to get revenge on Drakkar for what it did to her family years ago(Drakkar meta fight)
• We fought and killed the leader of the Svanir(Fraenir)
• We learned more about the early history of Norn/human interaction following EoTN(Drizzlewood Coast History Book)
• Braham took his Asgeir parallel story to its logcial end(got a Jotun fire enchanted weapon in Bitterfrost. Used it to kill a Champion of Jormag in Bjora. Got the Spirits of the Wild to recognize him and lead him their power in Drizzlewood. Had the Spirits use their powers to protect him so he could become Primordus's champion, and help kill Jormag in Dragonstorm)

Again, IBS covered every major Norn lore point to its logical end. The only thing they missed out on was having Knut's wife show up in Bjora hunting Svanir or something, but thats pretty small in the end.

 

For the Charr

• We got to go to the Blood Legion Homelands.
• Most of the Flame Legion was finally brought back into the fold of greater Charr society.
• Got development/reveals on the Renegades, and who was funding them.
• We had Bangar go crazy, and try to start a civil war over the future of the Charr, and the title of Khan-Ur.
• Smodur finally showed his true colors, and he got killed/replaced.
• The Charr were finally forced to accept the fact their culture was fundamentally broken and self destructive, and purged much of the corrupt elements out of it.
• Because of this change perspective the Charr were finally able ot take the first steps to truly making amends for all the people they had wronged/issues they had caused(fighting alongside humans to defend Ebonhawke, starting diplomatic talks with the Olmekhan, making peace with the remaining Flame Legion)

Both the Charr and Norn arguably got far more development on their plots then HoT ever gave the Sylvari.

 

The fundiemntal problem with most of your argument is that you try to boil down Jormag's, Primrodus', the Asura's, the Norn's, and many other stories down as if IBS was the only time they got, or could have gotten, devlopment, ignoring the literal years worth of game before IBS that covered it. Jormag and Primordus's story isn't just IBS, its also LWS3, where thier plot takes up half that season, and coveres a lot of things like the Asura, Dwarves, part of Braham's journey, Kodan stuff, etc. etc. Ignoring it is just dishonest.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

I just came back after a while hoping to see some fun mechanics, new character, items, anything worth investing an hour in.

 

After one run, just logged in here to say enough with the knock back, up and down spams. Loss of control of your own character is not interesting, fun or challenging in any way. It's simply an absolute bowl of AIDS and it discourages uninvested players like myself from ever coming back again, much less buying new xpacs.

 

I'd have thought it'd get better after that Taimi robot's kittening annoying knockback spams.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Soggy Biscuit.9372
spelling

[firedragon.8953]

I was more disappointed with Jormag's and especially Primordus's death than firing the canon at Zhaitan. Very anticlimactic after years of build up starting all the way back in Guild Wars. 

I wish there was one more super secret episode where Garm wakes me with a lick to the face from the Dragonstorm nightmare. 

[Lechtrixx.1053]

Having done all of the Guild Wars Saga (solo) and 99 % of this story solo, I can't say I'm disappointed. 

But what I wonder is what's coming next.