Icebrood Saga - best story so far

[ethreix.9407]

Personal  impression of course. This is the first story of GW2 that I deeply liked - lots of unpredictable stuff, great turns of events! Even the ending is good. Writers - thank you!

[Super Hayes.6890]

I enjoyed it too but the pacing was not ideal due to the circumstances impacting the saga's development. Not my favorite piece of storytelling so far but it was enjoyable when taken as a whole. The Primordus arc bothered a lot of long term players but if there ever was going to be more to that story it probably should have happened years ago. The dragon story line has lasted a long time. When I step back and look at the entire thing I enjoyed LW Season 3 the most. Icebrood Saga is somewhere in the middle. I wish we could have recieved one more map but I really enjoyed the story telling on old maps. Made them feel relevant again.

[Faridah.8431]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:46 PM, wilem.9635 said:

 Even the ending is good.

Really?

 

Different strokes, different folks I guess. I do not agree.

 

The story premise was really good, just feel once the expansion was announced that devs got directed away from IBS and it shows in rushing to a conclusion and not really a good one in my opinion.

[radda.8920]

this joke would have worked better in april

[Plagiarised.2865]

33 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

this joke would have worked better in april

Someone having a different subjective opinion does not make it a joke.

[radda.8920]

38 minutes ago, Plagiarised.2865 said:

Someone having a different subjective opinion does not make it a joke.

 

Anyone with knowledge of guild wars lore is bound to find the storyline of this saga ridiculous. Let's not even talk about the players of the first guild wars, it is literally a scenaristic humiliation for the work of former developers

I still can't imagine what they did with those poor dwarves, primordius and even charrs... I just want to forget. 

 

It's a bit like the end of games of thrones, with such a level of scriptwriting there is no longer any subjectivity.

Edited May 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[Plagiarised.2865]

2 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

Anyone with knowledge of guild wars lore is bound to find the storyline of this saga ridiculous. Let's not even talk about the players of the first guild wars, it is literally a scenaristic humiliation for the work of former developers

I keep track and up to date with all lore in the Guild Wars franchise. I have played all of Guild Wars 1. And I completely and utterly disagree with you. I dont find the storyline of this saga "ridiculous" and "a scenaristic huminilation". 

 

2 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

It's a bit like the end of games of thrones, with such a level of scriptwriting there is no longer any subjectivity.

It is subjective regardless of how strongly you feel.

 

2 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

I just want to forget.

You're not going to forget visiting threads like this.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

HARD disagree with OP on the quality of Irritable Bowel Saga, it did start out ok with Bound By Blood and the Grothmar map, and the concept of B'jora being haunted lands wasn't a bad one just pretty poorly implemented, the rest of it was abysmal with the ending being outright insulting as both a GW1 and GW2 fan.  In before: In My Opinion.

[Touchme.1097]

I want to write a positive feedback in favor of Icebrood Saga, the number of maps were not as many as LWS4 and this is a very positive thing because if Anet started to flood the game with more and more maps with related Metas the game would quickly be saturated with content and this would make a lot of players unhappy to play on empty maps plus it would be less work on the map design team and this could translate on a better quality release of new content.

I absolutely loved the Metal concert in Grothmar Valley and the map was very pretty with colorful environment and the story is decent enough to bring immersion.

I would like to see a less flood of maps in future LWS content as you did with Icebrood.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 minutes ago, Touchme.1097 said:

I want to write a positive feedback in favor of Icebrood Saga, the number of maps were not as many as LWS4 and this is a very positive thing because if Anet started to flood the game with more and more maps with related Metas the game would quickly be saturated with content and this would make a lot of players unhappy to play on empty maps plus it would be less work on the map design team and this could translate on a better quality release of new content.

I absolutely loved the Metal concert in Grothmar Valley and the map was very pretty with colorful environment and the story is decent enough to bring immersion.

I would like to see a less flood of maps in future LWS content as you did with Icebrood.

I can agree to a degree with not making too many maps per LS season, but they absolutely should have given us at least one more to finish Irritable Bowel Saga off.  The fact that didn't even do that still astounds me.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

 The fact that didn't even do that still astounds me.

Why? Do we REALLY need yet ANOTHER 2 hour long meta map that people do nothing but complain about the length of ad nauseam like Dragonfall, or Drizzlewood?

 

Honestly, I'm glad they gave us the good/fun part of the meta(the end fight), and left the tedious, 1.5 hour long, grind/build up in the DRMs, which can be consumed in more bite sized chunks.

 

11 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

Anyone with knowledge of guild wars lore is bound to find the storyline of this saga ridiculous. Let's not even talk about the players of the first guild wars, it is literally a scenaristic humiliation for the work of former developers

I still can't imagine what they did with those poor dwarves, primordius and even charrs... I just want to forget. 

 

It's a bit like the end of games of thrones, with such a level of scriptwriting there is no longer any subjectivity.

Having played Guild Wars 1 since Factions, I can safely say I hard disagree with what you said about the Dwarves, Charr, and Primordus.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[radda.8920]

24 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Why? Do we REALLY need yet ANOTHER 2 hour long meta map that people do nothing but complain about the length of ad nauseam like Dragonfall, or Drizzlewood?

 

Honestly, I'm glad they gave us the good/fun part of the meta(the end fight), and left the tedious, 1.5 hour long, grind/build up in the DRMs, which can be consumed in more bite sized chunks.

 

Having played Guild Wars 1 since Factions, I can safely say I hard disagree with what you said about the Dwarves, Charr, and Primordus.

 

Okay then to take the example of the dwarves. Their return comes down to 2 lines of dialogue and they aren't even present in the final fight. We do not see anything on the depths of Tyria, on the underground cities, we do not know anything about what happened to them during 250 years, what their king lived and how he died and it does not worry you.

With so little waiting, we're in a bad way

I don't understand how gw1 players can't feel sick when they see the fate that arena has reserved for them.

 

But I am reassured from the polls/comments here and on reddit, you are part of a tiny tiny minority

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

22 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

Okay then to take the example of the dwarves. Their return comes down to 2 lines of dialogue and they aren't even present in the final fight. We do not see anything on the depths of Tyria, on the underground cities, we do not know anything about what happened during 250 years for them, what their king lived and how he died and it does not worry you.

With so little waiting, we're in a bad way

After I am reassured from the polls here and on reddit, you are part of a tiny tiny minority

Except this is untrue. The story of the Dwarves in GW2 has been an overarching story since the core game came out.

• Back in core we covered pretty much all of the old Dwarven lands, from Iron Horse Mines in the north, to Droknar's Forge, and Port Sledge in the south. Ogden played a role in the Priory stroyline, and we got LOTS of content about the Dredge, who viewed themselves as the successors to the Dwarves' empire.
• LWS2 expanded Odgen's role into a more major character.
• In LWS3 we got introduced to Rhoban, a new stone Dwarf, in the Ember Bey release. Said release also had us use ancient Dwarven machinery to stop a volcano from exploding and making Primordus/Destroyers more powerful.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story continued in Path of Fire. There, in the Desert Highlands, Rhoban is part of a Priory expedition team exploring an old, underground, Dwarven ruin, now infested with destroyers. We explore these ruins, solve the secrets of the door puzzles, and find pieces to reforge a set on ancient Dwarven weapons.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story again continued in LWS4. There we got to Thunderhead Peaks, the last of the Dwarven lands we didn't get to experience back in core, and Rhoban is once again part of a Priory expedition in the ruins. Not only do we get to go there, but we get to go inside the citadel for once. Inside the citadel we find the legacy of the Dwarves, the Dragonsblood weapon forge they left behind for us to use against Kralkatorrik. Not only that, but we get to talk to the ghost of the dwarf who made the original spear, and make new ones. This release also had the Dredge show up again, and here we get into a more formal alliance with at least this one clan to fight the dragon. And there is the entire dragonsblood weapon collection involving forging the weapons, and using them to collect the stories of the ancient Dwarven heroes of old.
• Then there is the Deepstone Fractal, again expanding upon another Dwarven citadel, and the reasons why it was abandoned.
• And in IBS we got the Forging Steel release, which showed us yet another old Dwarven citadel, and gave us lore on what happened to the Stone Summit after EoTN.

 

Before IBS even began we had explored all the the old Dwarven lands, met multiple living stone Dwarves, got to explore several underground Dwarven ruins, found the legacy of the dwarves, and interacted, and made peace with, the successors of the Dwarves' Empire.

 

As for the stone Dwarves still underground, we know EXACTLY what they were doing for the last 250 years, fighting destroyers. At the end of EoTN the Dwarves gave up everything about themselves, and their civilization, to become immortal creatures of stone to fight the Destroyers. They have no cities, no artisans, no culture, no need for food, little if any need for sleep. They don't even need to make armor because their bodies are living armor. They are nothing but immortal creatures of stone hell driven to kill every last destroyer.

 

Not only is the idea that we saw nothing of the depths wrong(see the underground Dwarven cities we go to mentioned above) but even if we had gone to where the Stone dwarves are now we wouldn't see anything, but they have no need for it. IT would have been exactly what we got in the Thunderhead Peaks DRM(which was underground by the way) They are just down there smashing destroyers in old ruins.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[radda.8920]

37 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except this is untrue. The story of the Dwarves in GW2 has been an overarching story since the core game came out.

• Back in core we covered pretty much all of the old Dwarven lands, from Iron Horse Mines in the north, to Droknar's Forge, and Port Sledge in the south. Ogden played a role in the Priory stroyline, and we got LOTS of content about the Dredge, who viewed themselves as the successors to the Dwarves' empire.
• LWS2 expanded Odgen's role into a more major character.
• In LWS3 we got introduced to Rhoban, a new stone Dwarf, in the Ember Bey release. Said release also had us use ancient Dwarven machinery to stop a volcano from exploding and making Primordus/Destroyers more powerful.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story continued in Path of Fire. There, in the Desert Highlands, Rhoban is part of a Priory expedition team exploring an old, underground, Dwarven ruin, now infested with destroyers. We explore these ruins, solve the secrets of the door puzzles, and find pieces to reforge a set on ancient Dwarven weapons.
• Rhoban and the Dwarves' story again continued in LWS4. There we got to Thunderhead Peaks, the last of the Dwarven lands we didn't get to experience back in core, and Rhoban is once again part of a Priory expedition in the ruins. Not only do we get to go there, but we get to go inside the citadel for once. Inside the citadel we find the legacy of the Dwarves, the Dragonsblood weapon forge they left behind for us to use against Kralkatorrik. Not only that, but we get to talk to the ghost of the dwarf who made the original spear, and make new ones. This release also had the Dredge show up again, and here we get into a more formal alliance with at least this one clan to fight the dragon. And there is the entire dragonsblood weapon collection involving forging the weapons, and using them to collect the stories of the ancient Dwarven heroes of old.
• Then there is the Deepstone Fractal, again expanding upon another Dwarven citadel, and the reasons why it was abandoned.
• And in IBS we got the Forging Steel release, which showed us yet another old Dwarven citadel, and gave us lore on what happened to the Stone Summit after EoTN.

 

Before IBS even began we had explored all the the old Dwarven lands, met multiple living stone Dwarves, got to explore several underground Dwarven ruins, found the legacy of the dwarves, and interacted, and made peace with, the successors of the Dwarves' Empire.

 

As for the stone Dwarves still underground, we know EXACTLY what they were doing for the last 250 years, fighting destroyers. At the end of EoTN the Dwarves gave up everything about themselves, and their civilization, to become immortal creatures of stone to fight the Destroyers. They have no cities, no artisans, no culture, no need for food, little if any need for sleep. They don't even need to make armor because their bodies are living armor. They are nothing but immortal creatures of stone hell driven to kill every last destroyer.

 

Not only is the idea that we saw nothing of the depths wrong(see the underground Dwarven cities we go to mentioned above) but even if we had gone to where the Stone dwarves are now we wouldn't see anything, but they have no need for it. IT would have been exactly what we got in the Thunderhead Peaks DRM(which was underground by the way) They are just down there smashing destroyers in old ruins.

I know there was an interaction with a poor dwarf cut into pieces and a ghost in a puzzle jump

But if for you, so little is enough to give this mythical race of gw1 the glory it deserves, this period was the perfect time to have lots of dialogue with them and explore their battlefield. I expected 10 times more than all these minimal details. We have absolutely not the same expectations

and speaking of the stone summit precisely, their small appearance made me think that they were going to be exploited much more later and ... we had nothing.. 

it's a bit like primordius which will not have been exploited at all with an army of harpy and destroyers crabs (whereas there were lots of different models in gw1), which ends up associated with braham (the worst character of the franchise) and who dies in a stroke of lazer. 

 

Every time  arena uses guild wars elements it is badly done and it is messed up> mursaat, joko, even balthazar which could be much better exploited

But for me the dwarves it's a much worse level, they deserved to be the major NPCs of an expansion against primordius, and not to end with a few lines of dialogue in jumping puzzles or small books.

Edited May 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[The Greyhawk.9107]

5 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Why? Do we REALLY need yet ANOTHER 2 hour long meta map that people do nothing but complain about the length of ad nauseam like Dragonfall, or Drizzlewood?

 

Honestly, I'm glad they gave us the good/fun part of the meta(the end fight), and left the tedious, 1.5 hour long, grind/build up in the DRMs, which can be consumed in more bite sized chunks.

As a matter of fact, Yes I do want another Meta map regardless of the alleged complaints of other people.  I liked Dragonfall.  I don't like relying exclusively on tiny instances to experience a story's content.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

11 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

I know there was an interaction with a poor dwarf cut into pieces and a ghost in a puzzle jump

But if for you, so little is enough to give this mythical race of gw1 the glory it deserves, this period was the perfect time to have lots of dialogue with them and explore their battlefield. I expected 10 times more than all these minimal details. We have absolutely not the same expectations

There is nothing little about what we got in regards to the Dwarves in GW2. We have zone after zone of Dwarven content across the Shiverpeaks, and a meta narrative spanning 8+ years from core to IBS. The dwarven story is one of the most developed in the game. There was no way to get 10X more content then that because we literally covered everything from top to bottom as is. The Dwarves weren't some mighty empire that spanned the globe, they were relatively contained to the Shiverpeaks, and we have literally covered all of the area they once inhabited.

11 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

and speaking of the stone summit precisely, their small appearance made me think that they were going to be exploited much more later and ... we had nothing.. 

If you read the journals left by the Stone Summit, you would know that the vast majority of them rejoined with the Deldirmor, and helped them fight against the destroyers. The Stone Summit we saw in Forging Steel were a small band of dissidents in a remote area, and we pretty much wiped them out. Most of the Stone Summit are the same stone Dwarves we see helping fight Primrodus in the DRMs.

11 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

it's a bit like primordius which will not have been exploited at all with an army of harpy and destroyers crabs (whereas there were lots of different models in gw1), which ends up associated with braham (the worst character of the franchise) and who dies in a stroke of lazer. 

Except this is also untrue. All of the Elder Dragons thus far have followed the same basic pattern. They all had areas in core where their minions showed up, but the actual fight against the dragons has consisted of three maps, + some bigger dragon fight.

• Zhaitan had Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore + Arah story mode.
• Mordremoth had Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, Tangled Depths + Dragon's Stand.
• Kralkatorrik had Vabbi, Jahai, Thunderhead + Dragonfall.
• Jormag had Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora, and Drizzlewood + Dragonstorm.
• Primordus had Ember Bay, Dragonis Mons + Dragonstorm.

 

Primordus got 2 of the 3 maps he was ever going to get, and his related story content, such as with the Asura and Dwarves, had already been done before IBS began. IBS was only going to go on for four more episodes, 2 of which were likely Primordus focused in the Centaur Homelands, and the last 2 being the dragonstorm meta fight. Everything we would have gotten narratively was transferred to the DRMs. The only thing we really lost out on was the physical maps.

 

Primordus got literally as much content and story development as the other dragons did. Mores o because his story was intertwined with Jormags, and the total number of maps, and releases, focused on this story eclipses any other story in the game.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[LucianDK.8615]

IBS was good, but rapidly went downhill after Drizzlewood coast. We should have gotten at least one more map.

I heard a rumor that the devs had to rapidly wrap up IBS due to resources being shifted to EoD.

[Jaken.6801]

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There is nothing little about what we got in regards to the Dwarves in GW2. We have zone after zone of Dwarven content across the Shiverpeaks, and a meta narrative spanning 8+ years from core to IBS. The dwarven story is one of the most developed in the game. There was no way to get 10X more content then that because we literally covered everything from top to bottom as is. The Dwarves weren't some mighty empire that spanned the globe, they were relatively contained to the Shiverpeaks, and we have literally covered all of the area they once inhabited.

If you read the journals left by the Stone Summit, you would know that the vast majority of them rejoined with the Deldirmor, and helped them fight against the destroyers. The Stone Summit we saw in Forging Steel were a small band of dissidents in a remote area, and we pretty much wiped them out. Most of the Stone Summit are the same stone Dwarves we see helping fight Primrodus in the DRMs.

Except this is also untrue. All of the Elder Dragons thus far have followed the same basic pattern. They all had areas in core where their minions showed up, but the actual fight against the dragons has consisted of three maps, + some bigger dragon fight.

• Zhaitan had Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore + Arah story mode.
• Mordremoth had Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, Tangled Depths + Dragon's Stand.
• Kralkatorrik had Vabbi, Jahai, Thunderhead + Dragonfall.
• Jormag had Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora, and Drizzlewood + Dragonstorm.
• Primordus had Ember Bay, Dragonis Mons + Dragonstorm.

 

Primordus got 2 of the 3 maps he was ever going to get, and his related story content, such as with the Asura and Dwarves, had already been done before IBS began. IBS was only going to go on for four more episodes, 2 of which were likely Primordus focused in the Centaur Homelands, and the last 2 being the dragonstorm meta fight. Everything we would have gotten narratively was transferred to the DRMs. The only thing we really lost out on was the physical maps.

 

Primordus got literally as much content and story development as the other dragons did. Mores o because his story was intertwined with Jormags, and the total number of maps, and releases, focused on this story eclipses any other story in the game.

To be fair.
Dwarfen are aknowledged in the story, however they aren't that much more explored, after they became stone.

The dwarfes, that come up from fighting Primordus did that for a hundred years and the ones we interact with are less than a handfull, which remained on the surface.
These dwarfes have bearly any knowledge of what is happening down there.
Odgen doesn't know, because he went priory scholar and link to the dwarfes in general.
The ruins in shiverpeak and desert highlands also don't have any new insights, aside from nice GW1 nodges.
At fire island and thunderkeep we get a bit "newer" lore, with the machines that keep the Vulcano still and that they made Glints spear.

Otherwise, the missing stone dwarfes, how they have changed, etc. It's not explored. All dwarfes we meet are not part of the ones, who went down fighting for so many years.

The same goes more or less for Primordus. Yes, he was featured, but that also happened for others, except Bubbles, who is just an annoying carrot on a stick.
We should know way more about him, as the developers allowed, so he is just a tease.

Primordus, or better, only his influence was featured in places where he made sense. Everywhere where fire was. He wasn't characterized more, than what he was in GW1 and only in the IBS, we got him to actually do something active.
Remember, in S3, he was there, sleeping. Resting, being fed by his minions, like every other ED at the time.
He, like other EDs was used to show reactions to things happening in the world, nothing more.
He was our introduction to the concept of EDs and there his champion, The Great Destroyer, was actually the antagonist. Primordus was doing nothing. He slept.
He slept till the IBS and his minions were just there, were the fire went, even though the IBS does hint at different things.
He was a natural desaster, like the EDs characterized from the beginning. There was no real change or deeper look into him, that didn't also apply to every other ED.
The only thing that is new now, is that he is apparently linked to Jormag and that he is a brute, maybe even on the verge of Kralkatorik crazyness.
That's it.

That's the depth we went with him.
The irony is. With Braham and the Spirits of the wild, we could have actually explored him more. With the dwarfes, we could have explored him more. Learned more.

We didn't. He stayed a background character till the end. Overshadowed by his own minions and their actions. And yes, even though he is supposedly linked to all of them, working through them.

[Zok.4956]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:46 PM, wilem.9635 said:

Personal  impression of course. This is the first story of GW2 that I deeply liked - lots of unpredictable stuff, great turns of events! Even the ending is good. Writers - thank you!

 

Yeah, we spent a lot of time with DRMs and events to collect/mobilize allies over months and then our allies do not show up in the final fight at the ending of the saga when we fight not one but two elder dragons (including big bad-kitten Primordus) at once.

 

If our allies would have shown up, however, the final fight against two elder dragons would have been shorter than it is already. So I should see this is a good thing and an example of good writing, great turns of events and unpredictable stuff?

 

No, I don't. I think it was rushed because they had no ressources to do it properly and they just wanted to finish this story-line and kill this two elder dragons before EoD.

 

[zealex.9410]

It has some good and some bad like every story in gw2, but you really only aprecuate it if you play it all in one go. I still consider pof vetter because its all there and its all paced better.

[Imba.9451]

2 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

It has some good and some bad like every story in gw2, but you really only aprecuate it if you play it all in one go. I still consider pof vetter because its all there and its all paced better.

Trust me, it doesn't get better if you play in in one go. Quite the contrary.

Ask me how I found out.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, Jaken.6801 said:

Dwarfen are aknowledged in the story, however they aren't that much more explored, after they became stone.

There isn't anything to explore. As mentioned, when the Dwarves become stone they gave up everything about their previous lives and civilization. The Dwarves have nothing, and are nothing, beyond quasi-immortal creatures of stone who spend all day every day smashing Destroyers to bits. There are no Dwarven cities, no Dwarven art, no Dwarven culture. There are no baby Dwarves, no need to eat, little if any need to sleep. The Dwarves are, and do, nothing but fight, all day, every day, as part of a magically driven need to kill the Destroyers.

 

5 hours ago, Jaken.6801 said:

Remember, in S3, he was there, sleeping

This is incorrect. in LWS3 Primordus was awake, and moving around. He moved to Draconis Mons from under the Shiverpeaks to feed on Mordremoth's energy. He only gets put to sleep at the end of LWS3, when Balthazar uses the machine on him, and we smash it. There is even an entire side story achievement chain to track the direction he is moving in.

[zealex.9410]

3 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Trust me, it doesn't get better if you play in in one go. Quite the contrary.

Ask me how I found out.

I replayed it in one go and i though there was some more plot consistency because of it.

[Poormany.4507]

Prologue was great, Bjora was meh, Drizzlewood was fun, and then it just took a nosedive with Champions.

 

On 5/21/2021 at 5:52 AM, Plagiarised.2865 said:

I keep track and up to date with all lore in the Guild Wars franchise. I have played all of Guild Wars 1. And I completely and utterly disagree with you. I dont find the storyline of this saga "ridiculous" and "a scenaristic huminilation". 

As a player invested in the story since GW1, the way Primordus was handled was abysmal and I agree it was humiliating to the work of the GW1/early GW2 devs who clearly put a lot of effort into setting him up to have an epic storyline (it even got a full expac in GW1 to set it up for GW2). At the end it got a few lines of mention, reused 2012 enemy models (when new ones were already in the assets and used only 2  regular episodes ago (???)), and a 20 minute ending. Anet saying this release was pushed a month early just shows that they were very likely pushed to tie it up as quickly as possible to switch to EoD.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

At the end it got a few lines of mention, reused 2012 enemy models (when new ones were already in the assets and used only 2  regular episodes ago (???)), and a 20 minute ending.

Except this is demonstrably untrue.

 

IBS is not the entirety of Primordus and Jormag's story, and trying to act like it was is simply an argument in bad faith. Primordus and Jormag's story goes all the way back to LWS3 where Primordus got two maps/releases focused on it(Ember Bay/Draconis Mons), and Jormag got one(Bitterfrost). In IBS Jormag got two maps focused on it(Bjora and Drizzlewood), and Primordus was going to get one(likely the Centaur Homelands), and then we would have had the Dragonstorm meta map. While we lost the physical maps themselves, all the narrative beats from that got moved into Champions.

 

If Champions didn't exist we would have gotten the exact same thing, but in the Centaur Homelands.

• From Metrica: Braham starting to sense Destroyers. Taimi doing research on the Destroyers, and discovering they are all linked/are Primordus. Taimi and Braham's argument over the Asura's willingness to work with Jormag to defeat Primordus,  and each race's perspective on the two dragons. Taimi commenting on how the destroyer's actions don't make sense.
• From Brisban: Caithe leading efforts to fight the Destroyers. Ryland showing up to make good on his truce. Caithe, Ryland, and the Commander, having their argument over the actions(or inactions) of Aurene and Jormag.
• From Gendarran: Destroyers attacking all over, and people trying to defend their homes. Dialog about how the Destroyers aren't going after the more tactically important places, and are just trying to burn anything they can. Building on Taimi's observations earlier.
• From Thunderhead: Braham continuing to sense Destroyers. Stone Dwarves coming up to fight the Desotryers. Braham having his chat with Myrun over the nature of the Norn Prophecy, and that only Jormag and Primordus can kill each other.
• From Fields of Ruin: The Destroyer's attacks forcing old enemies to have to work together to defeat them(In this case Centaurs and the other races rather then Humans and Charr)
• From Wildfire: Braham going into the Volcano, while being protected by the Spirits of the Wild, to become Primordus' champion, and direct his forces against Jormag.

 

That's about two IBS episodes of narrative right there. Primordus didn't have just a few lines, and a 20 minute ending, it had literally the same amount of direct narrative expansion that Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik, and Jormag got. Which is the three maps(or two maps +DRMs) and a meta fight.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509