I feel screwed over by the Legendary Armory [Merged]

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You know, it's unfortunate this forum does not nest quotes. 

 

I am ambivalent about compensation.  It does not matter to me if players get compensation. 

 

The player I quoted talked a lot about not having a skin in the Legendary Armory. 

The fact that having Legendary Armor gives access to any skin in the Wardrobe, at no cost, means that that skin is, effectively, in the Legendary Armory.  What is not in the Legendary Armory is the actual armor.  Which does not matter, as Legendary Armor is available for every character.

 

Now, if it still cost something to use that skin, that would be another matter, and yes, you could say that skin is not in the Legendary Armory.  But, with the Legendary Armory, any unlocked skin is available, at no cost. 

[Astralporing.1957]

34 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You know, it's unfortunate this forum does not nest quotes. 

 

I am ambivalent about compensation.  It does not matter to me if players get compensation. 

 

The player I quoted talked a lot about not having a skin in the Legendary Armory. 

The fact that having Legendary Armor gives access to any skin in the Wardrobe, at no cost, means that that skin is, effectively, in the Legendary Armory.  What is not in the Legendary Armory is the actual armor.  Which does not matter, as Legendary Armor is available for every character.

 

Now, if it still cost something to use that skin, that would be another matter, and yes, you could say that skin is not in the Legendary Armory.  But, with the Legendary Armory, any unlocked skin is available, at no cost. 

The person you responded to was talking about how making a WvW legendary armor does not add any legendary skin to armory (he indeed really should have said "wardrobe" here, but it was easy to understand what he meant). Because, you know, the legendary WvW set does not have any.

The point was not about adding a skin to armoury specifically. The point was about not adding a skin. To anywhere.

 

Edit: and, again, i'm also quite ambivalent about compensation. I was even initially leaning towards no compensation at all. But if there is a compensation being talked with, i'd rather it did not exclude some people due to holding to the strict letter of the badly designed compensation rules over a common sense.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Katary.7096]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:46 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

But the reason why they are being compensated for the armory limit is not because getting beyond that number is in itself worthy of compensation. It's because any legendary above that limit will become completely useless. There's no other point to that compensation.

If that was the logic Arenanet is using in determing who is getting contacted and who isn't, then we would not be having this thread.

On 7/10/2021 at 11:46 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not about at which point demand for compensation becomes reasonable/unreasonable. In fact, i was originally one of those people that said that people with multiple legendaries should not be compensated at all.

The point is, that the compensation rules should be treating players equally (both in letter and in spirit behind the compensation idea), and not play favourites based on technicalities that disqualify some players even if, according to the main reason behind the compensation, they really should have been part of it.

Treating players equally must not have been a high priority for the Legendary Armory. Look at people who made Transcendence and Conflux in the past, seems like they won't be getting equal treatment to those who are going to make these items in the future. Perhaps the feature would have been better if the devs didn't play favorites with it, maybe it could have been worse, who knows?

On 7/10/2021 at 11:46 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

The problem is not about crafting an armor and now regretting it. It's about treating two people that crafted multiple sets differently, based only on content in which they pursued their legendaries.

 

Actually the best solution should really be not changing compensation rules, but giving WvW and SPvP players something they should have got from the beginning - unique legendary armor skins. Because it's the very lack of those skins that creates the issue here.

That's a great idea. Maybe with Grouch being back on board there is a chance for that to happen, though I am not going to hold my breath.

13 hours ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

What is ArenaNet compensating for? 

The fact that you have more items than you can wear.

No, the fact that you have more items than what can be absorbed into the armory. That's the rule they are using.

You want to point out that that is a dumb rule and they should have thought of something better? Fine, but don't get the facts twisted.

[Astralporing.1957]

23 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

No, the fact that you have more items than what can be absorbed into the armory. That's the rule they are using.

No, that's the criteria they use for compensation, but not the reason for it.

 

It's not the first time, unfortunately, where the reason for something does not match with the criteria used to achieve the goal.

[Setz.9675]

So many people in this thread without a shred of empathy, quite rough I have to say.

 

@OP, I feel for you I do but the way its going to work, that's just how the dice rolls I'm afraid.

 

I made 4 PvE heavy legendary items and 2 sPvP heavy legendary items for my 2nd heavy legendary set, the 4 PvE pieces should be eligible for compensation but the 2 from sPvP will not be eligible for compensation even though all 6 of these pieces have no value to me in terms of functionality because I already own a complete 6/6 heavy legendary PvE set. The sPvP legendarys I have didn't even unlock a unique sPvP skin.

 

Now lets say a person had 3 pieces of light PvE legendary armor and 3 pieces of Light PvP armor and only 1 light armor legendary  piece could enter the armory, you would have people complain that their 6/6 set is a mix&match and how they can no longer fix it to be 6/6 PvE or 6/6 WvW.

 

A friend I run fractals with owns 3 PvE sets and 2 WvW sets and after armory will make a 3rd WvW set because he set that as his goal. I'm going to look at my redundant items as a bad investment, sometimes you profit from your choices sometimes you lose.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Setz.9675
changed refund for compensation, since thats what we are getting, compensation

[Alice.4215]

1 hour ago, Setz.9675 said:

So many people in this thread without a shred of empathy, quite rough I have to say.

 

@OP, I feel for you I do but the way its going to work, that's just how the dice rolls I'm afraid.

 

I made 4 PvE heavy legendary items and 2 sPvP heavy legendary items for my 2nd heavy legendary set, the 4 PvE pieces should be eligible for compensation but the 2 from sPvP will not be eligible for compensation even though all 6 of these pieces have no value to me in terms of functionality because I already own a complete 6/6 heavy legendary PvE set. The sPvP legendarys I have didn't even unlock a unique sPvP skin.

 

Now lets say a person had 3 pieces of light PvE legendary armor and 3 pieces of Light PvP armor and only 1 light armor legendary  piece could enter the armory, you would have people complain that their 6/6 set is a mix&match and how they can no longer fix it to be 6/6 PvE or 6/6 WvW.

 

A friend I run fractals with owns 3 PvE sets and 2 WvW sets and after armory will make a 3rd WvW set because he set that as his goal. I'm going to look at my redundant items as a bad investment, sometimes you profit from your choices sometimes you lose.

 

Eh, you know how it is, people dont have sympathy or feel anything until they themselves end up in said situation, then they are the first one to shout about it when they lose something. That's how the world works in general. 😄

As you already know(and mentioned by ArenaNet), the people affected by this are about 0.008% of the GW2 community lol, so it's normal that most people dont even recognize an issue that does not concern them.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

You’re not a part of the 0.008%. Having raid legendary armor and WvW armor doesn’t qualify you as both sets are unique. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

You’re not a part of the 0.008%. Having raid legendary armor and WvW armor doesn’t qualify you as both sets are unique. 

Sure, that's according to the rules Anet set for compensation. The reason why we're talking aboyt it is because, in this specific case, the "uniqueness" of WvW and SPvP sets is a pure technicality. they are unique, as in, having a separate ID, but functionally they are not unique.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, that's according to the rules Anet set for compensation. The reason why we're talking aboyt it is because, in this specific case, the "uniqueness" of WvW and SPvP sets is a pure technicality. they are unique, as in, having a separate ID, but functionally they are not unique.

All Legendaries share the same functionality.  The OP’s issue is that the sPvP/WvW skins use ascended precursor skins. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

All Legendaries share the same functionality.  The OP’s issue is that the sPvP/WvW skins use ascended precursor skins. 

Legendaries have two functions. One is utilitarian (stat-switching and free rune extraction). The other is vanity-based (unique high-visibility skin). The first function is not unique. If we were using it as basis, there would not be a point in keeping more than, say, two legendary GS-es in armory. The only reason why we can, and why the cap is not per type but per unique item is due to that other function. And the whole problem is because WvW and SPvP armors lack that function. they offer only the utility of legendaries. They do not offer the prestige of unique legendary skin.

As such, there's no point in having multiple sets of different legendary armor in armory, because, in both purposes, they would be equal to only a single set.

 

Yes, that is a direct consequence of those two legendary sets being only half-done. Anet has cheapened out when making them, and now wants the players to pay the price for it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Legendaries have two functions. One is utilitarian (stat-switching and free rune extraction). The other is vanity-based (unique high-visibility skin). The first function is not unique. If we were using it as basis, there would not be a point in keeping more than, say, two legendary GS-es in armory. The only reason why we can, and why the cap is not per type but per unique item is due to that other function. And the whole problem is because WvW and SPvP armors lack that function. they offer only the utility of legendaries. They do not offer the prestige of unique legendary skin.

As such, there's no point in having multiple sets of different legendary armor in armory, because, in both purposes, they would be equal to only a single set.

 

Yes, that is a direct consequence of those two legendary sets being only half-done. Anet has cheapened out when making them, and now wants the players to pay the price for it.

When I speak of functionality, I’m referring to what they do and not their skins. I don’t consider skins a function. 
 

I find it odd that you counter my post where I stated that all Legendaries share the same functionality when in just the post before you stated “but functionally they are not unique”.  If they are functionally not unique then you’re just contradicting yourself. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

When I speak of functionality, I’m referring to what they do and not their skins. I don’t consider skins a function. 
 

I find it odd that you counter my post where I stated that all Legendaries share the same functionality when in just the post before you stated “but functionally they are not unique”.  If they are functionally not unique then you’re just contradicting yourself. 

I don't see any contradiction.

Twilight and Sunrise are unique. Even though they share the same utility, each has an unique look. Out of three (well, five) legendary armor sets however only one (Envoy) is truly unique. The four remaining ones aren't.

 

The difference between you and me is that you consider only utility part of legendary function, while i remember that this utility is something that was added only later, and that their primary function is being a vanity item. And that they fulfill that function by having an unique, flashy and often over-the-top look.

 

So, i disagree that all legendaries share the same functionality. They carry the same utility, but that's only one facet of their functionality. In the end, all legendaries are unique. Except WvW and SPvP legendary armors

[Zalavaaris.5329]

As someone with raid legendary armor, I am now compelled to get the wvw ascended skins. This is a good idea.... unhappy I hadn't thought of this... 👍👍

[Ayrilana.1396]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't see any contradiction.

Twilight and Sunrise are unique. Even though they share the same utility, each has an unique look. Out of three (well, five) legendary armor sets however only one (Envoy) is truly unique. The four remaining ones aren't.

 

The difference between you and me is that you consider only utility part of legendary function, while i remember that this utility is something that was added only later, and that their primary function is being a vanity item. And that they fulfill that function by having an unique, flashy and often over-the-top look.

 

So, i disagree that all legendaries share the same functionality. They carry the same utility, but that's only one facet of their functionality. In the end, all legendaries are unique. Except WvW and SPvP legendary armors

 

To keep you from twisting this further:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/utility

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/functionality

 

Please do not conflate the functionality of legendaries (i.e. stat swapping) to their function in the game itself (gold/time sink).  Those are two different things.

 

EDIT:

 

The contradiction arose why you decide to create a second function in an effort to go against what I had said.  I had stated that both the WvW and raid legendary armor were unique and you responded by stating "they are unique, as in, having a separate ID, but functionally they are not unique".  You said that functionally they are not unique which can also be said that functionally they are the same.  After all, if the functions are not unique, they then must be the same.  I stated this very same thing in my next post.  You then responded that I was wrong that while stat swapping functions were the same, the new vanity function that you made up was not.  This was the contradiction that you created as you went against your previous post by shifting your argument in an effort to go against my post.  Actually, you just contradicted the post again in your most recent post by stating "In the end, all legendaries are unique".  Either they are or they are not; pick one.

 

Skins are not a function.  I don't believe anyone has ever called them that before you in this thread.  Functions are what something does, not what it looks like.  Whether a function was added later or not is irrelevant as we're looking at their current status now and when the patch hits.  Legendaries starting out as skinned weapons only doesn't matter in the context of this thread. 

 

You also appeared to have shifted your argument against from previously calling the ability to swap stats as being a function to it now being a utility.  This likely an effort to do damage control on the contradiction.  Call it something else and then it can't be a contradiction...

 

4 hours ago, Essence Snow.3194 said:

Jut use "Function" https://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/function instead of "Funtionality". It'll keep them from debating semantics in some sort of attempt to gain a leg to stand on.

 

It unfortunately that wouldn't resolve anything as the issue isn't due to a misuse of functionality versus function.  Functionality is the total set of all of the functions but the poster decided to reclassify one of the functions as utility.

 

EDIT 2:

 

I don’t really want to continue debating over terminology so I’ll rephrase my earlier post to not use it. 
 

All Legendaries share the same ability to change stats and remove upgrades.  The only difference between them are the skins and any special effects. The OP’s issue is with the latter as the sPvP/WvW legendaries use the ascended precursor skins. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Essence Snow.3194]

Jut use "Function" https://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/function instead of "Funtionality". It'll keep them from debating semantics in some sort of attempt to gain a leg to stand on.

[leila.7962]

I hope they compensate with something that't not a title like when they made Twice Told Legend or an ugly glider like they did in the past 😠.. Also, if they remove the other legendary copies from people's account, it will immensely decrease the account's gold value, since they have a lot of materials imbued on them.

[Seirus.8934]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:24 PM, Metaljaw.6437 said:

Dude, I'd rather be in your situation than the one I'm currently in still looking down the barrel of obtaining even a single legendary piece of anything.

The problems of people who play Guild Wars for a living

[anonymous.7812]

And those arguing that PvE vs WvW/PvP sets -- how about just using a different Ascended precursor from WvW ? Are you hard-set that since we specifically chose to use different skins to craft our Legendaries -- we're not entitled to this compensation, but someone that chose to use the same base for their Legendary armor - is?

 

Just because it's a different item ID, does not mean it is functionally different. Either nobody should get compensation, or everyone with duplicate functioning armor should not. 

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

All Legendaries share the same ability to change stats and remove upgrades.  The only difference between them are the skins and any special effects. The OP’s issue is with the latter as the sPvP/WvW legendaries use the ascended precursor skins. 

So, basically, you're agreeing with me, but just arguing the semantics? I can live with that.

[Ayrilana.1396]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, basically, you're agreeing with me, but just arguing the semantics? I can live with that.

You started the argument over the semantics. I’m not going to do a blanket agreement as there is a lot of what you said which I do not agree with. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

You started the argument over the semantics.

No, i did not. I started the argument because i pointed out that, unlike with other legendary types, in case of armors we can't really talk about five unique sets. There's only one truly unique legendary armor, and 4 sets with legendary QoL but no unique skin - but you've already acknowledged that QoL is not what makes each legendary unique.

 

The discussion about semantics came after.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

29 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, i did not. I started the argument because i pointed out that, unlike with other legendary types, in case of armors we can't really talk about five unique sets. There's only one truly unique legendary armor, and 4 sets with legendary QoL but no unique skin - but you've already acknowledged that QoL is not what makes each legendary unique.

 

The discussion about semantics came after.

 

And yet the statement which I originally made, that prompted you to post against, is the very statement you’re now saying that I agree with you on. Please don’t act like you were the one in the right as you’re the one that countered my post. 
 

Perhaps it would have been better to just have agreed with it from the start. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Rose.2593]

Whilst it would be nice if the skins were unique, there's is still a difference between ascended and legendary, the person with the ascended armour, that looks like the legendary still can't change the stats for free...

 

Its the convenience of the free stat change that's the difference. 

[Game of Bones.8975]

Did you feel "screwed" the day before the Armory was announced? Probably not. You got what you paid for, regardless the high price.

 

The day after the roll-out of the Armory shouldn't matter: you still have the same equipment, you didn't spend anything to acquire the Armory, and it doesn't matter what equipment other players have...only your personal inventory.

[Sugar Min.5834]

Hmm.. ANet is giving away legendary armory for FREE and still there are unhappy players with complaints. Don't be so calculative *rolleyes* Remove or delay the armory then.