I feel screwed over by the Legendary Armory [Merged]

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, ReaverKane.7598 said:

From my experience, its quite the opposite. Its usually people just roaming and pveing in WvW to get pips because they don't want to go to raids to get legendary armor. Or people that have one or two sets of Raid armor, and finished their other sets with WvW armor since its so much easier (and faster).

No matter how you cut it, wvw and pvp armor are much easier to acquire, and are leechable. Raid armor doesn't just require you to clear raids afk, you need to participate in them to get the achievements done. You have to do Greens and not die in Deimos. That can't be just leeched.

 

So it seems like dispite some slight differences in how some of us view WvW and PvP players it seems that everyone can agree that the skin acquisition is unbalanced. Some rightfully point out that only raid armor requires 2 collections be completed which include some actual tasks be completed that do take some skill/practice. That is, basically, greens and don't die on Deimos.

 

It would seem that the proposed solution to fix the balance issue would still require everyone has demonstrated those skills and has to be just as much a "raider" as other owners of perfected Envoy armor. 

 

That is, I propose that one of two things be done.

Either.

1) WvW and PvP Legendary armor gets a new final skin ONLY available from upgrade to legendary.

OR.

2) Perfected Envoy skins become purchasable. The ability to purchase would need to require the Envoy 1 and Envoy 2 collections have been completed, and arguably that the person has at least completed one set of Perfected Armor of any weight. This resolves concerns that lazy leechers would otherwise take advantage and ruin the reward value which is a valid concern. Additionally, to ensure fairness and consistency things like Magnetite, Legendary Insights and Provisioner tokens should be taken into account and used as part of the purchase price to keep it consistent with how WvW and PvP mistforged skin purchases work.

 

Either solution would resolve the balance conflict.

 

At present, for anyone like myself who was into WvW long before I got into raiding and whoes first legendary sets are WvW it would mean we dont have to waste an kitten of gold to make extra legendary armor sets JUST for the skins, while anyone who make raid armor first is free to just buy wvw legendary skins and have the complete set, which as demonstrated is totally unbalanced reward path.

 

The only remaining issue would be people who already had more than one legendary set of each light, med, heavy which as far as I know would fall into that .0008% that got compensated, and if not than a few more players would end up due a refund of sorts to set everyone on an even footing.

[Jong.5937]

9 hours ago, ReaverKane.7598 said:

From my experience, its quite the opposite. Its usually people just roaming and pveing in WvW to get pips because they don't want to go to raids to get legendary armor. Or people that have one or two sets of Raid armor, and finished their other sets with WvW armor since its so much easier (and faster).

No matter how you cut it, wvw and pvp armor are much easier to acquire, and are leechable. Raid armor doesn't just require you to clear raids afk, you need to participate in them to get the achievements done. You have to do Greens and not die in Deimos. That can't be just leeched.

I think the nub of my  point is that potentially leechable and actually & practically leeched are two very different things and the time gate is sufficient to ensure only those dedicated to any mode earn the armor (certainly three, let alone more, sets!).

[SweetPotato.7456]

If there is no skin for the wvw / pvp armor, the players who crafted them still MADE A CHOICE to craft them. 

 

People will whine when ever there's a chance to get free gold. shrug. 

I stand by the comment - no free gold /refund (can't even call it a compensation) for anyone.

[ArchonWing.9480]

57 minutes ago, Jong.5937 said:

I think the nub of my  point is that potentially leechable and actually & practically leeched are two very different things and the time gate is sufficient to ensure only those dedicated to any mode earn the armor (certainly three, let alone more, sets!).

 

I dunno. I've played wvw for 8 years and didn't even know ruins increased participation.

 

But it only gives 2 minutes. That's not even much to afk with. That seems like even more effort than playing normally.

[Oliber.5142]

6 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If there is no skin for the wvw / pvp armor, the players who crafted them still MADE A CHOICE to craft them. 

 

People will whine when ever there's a chance to get free gold. shrug. 

I stand by the comment - no free gold /refund (can't even call it a compensation) for anyone.

 

They opened the gates when they gave compensation for other duplicates; however not all duplicates are being handled in the same way.

 

It's not free gold, it's that the gold that we spent is now useless and serves no value, would you be happy if you bought a car and the manufacturer turned off a significant, but not mandatory feature? 

[Ashantara.8731]

14 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Probably depends on who you hang out with. I'm in a WvW guild, so not really any dedicated pip farmers. [...]

 

Not sure whose post you were responding to with yours, but I can assure you that "capping ruins" to get pips is the worst idea. It is plain boring, and WvW isn't usually about boredom. If you want to earn pips and have fun at the same time, join a squad and have fights conquering or defending objects. Even a karma train is more fun than capping ruins.

[Astralporing.1957]

56 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Not sure whose post you were responding to with yours, but I can assure you that "capping ruins" to get pips is the worst idea.

Besides, you'd get killed with high frequency, and you'd lose participation while having to run back to the ruins from spawn point. And you'd have to constantly run from one ruin to another - because, once capped, the point stops giving you participation. you'd have to let it decay first.

 

Basically, capping ruins is not something you can do while afk as some people claimed. Only someone that never actually tried that could claim so.

 

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Besides, you'd get killed with high frequency, and you'd lose participation while having to run back to the ruins from spawn point. And you'd have to constantly run from one ruin to another - because, once capped, the point stops giving you participation. you'd have to let it decay first.

 

Basically, capping ruins is not something you can do while afk as some people claimed. Only someone that never actually tried that could claim so.

 

You can however rotate between two camps and their sentries with ease!

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

7 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

I dunno. I've played wvw for 8 years and didn't even know ruins increased participation.

 

But it only gives 2 minutes. That's not even much to afk with. That seems like even more effort than playing normally.

 

Yeah I am unsure how it looks like rn, but back in the days when I was doing active wvw farms, the most common way to "afk" pip farm would be cap flipping. Basically the cap between the spawns on borderlands would always get flipped on cd, regardless of side, so idea would be flipping it (gives 10min timer) come back to wp, wait for it to get flipped, wait for the cd, flip it again, rinse and repeat.

 

13 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

You can however rotate between two camps and their sentries with ease!

You don't even need to rotate between two camps for the most of it, and camp flip gives 10 minutes bump to activity timer. Tho I doubt anyone has patience to do that for most of the week, for alot of weeks in a row.....

 

EDIT:

  

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Besides, you'd get killed with high frequency, and you'd lose participation while having to run back to the ruins from spawn point. And you'd have to constantly run from one ruin to another - because, once capped, the point stops giving you participation. you'd have to let it decay first.

 

Basically, capping ruins is not something you can do while afk as some people claimed. Only someone that never actually tried that could claim so.

 

 

It was my understanding, that ruin capping used to be cheese way to afk/bot pips farm, but AN fixed this very quickly, and it is no longer valid way to do it.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Yeah I am unsure how it looks like rn, but back in the days when I was doing active wvw farms, the most common way to "afk" pip farm would be cap flipping. Basically the cap between the spawns on borderlands would always get flipped on cd, regardless of side, so idea would be flipping it (gives 10min timer) come back to wp, wait for it to get flipped, wait for the cd, flip it again, rinse and repeat.

 

You don't even need to rotate between two camps for the most of it, and camp flip gives 10 minutes bump to activity timer. Tho I doubt anyone has patience to do that for most of the week, for alot of weeks in a row.....

Well there is a reason despite playing since beta im only rank ~330 and dont even have the ascended armor unlocked. Wvw as a whole is..not for me, same with pvp.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

4 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Well there is a reason despite playing since beta im only rank ~330 and dont even have the ascended armor unlocked. Wvw as a whole is..not for me, same with pvp.

 

Well I like WvW, but I like PvE stuff more, and I don't have enought time in live for both at the same time which lands me in roughtly same cart as you 🙂

(roughtly because I didn't have PC for beta, and when I got PC for launch I still needed couple months to get money to buy the game itself xD, but I have similar rank, and got unlocked like one of the "easy" ascended bits)

[Astralporing.1957]

28 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

You can however rotate between two camps and their sentries with ease!

Anyone that can put up with this for 4 hours a day, every day, for half a year deserves the armor in my opinion. Personally, i would not be able to do it. Also, probably farming gold to buy the raid set would be both faster and less boring...

(i say "probably", because i don;t really know the current rates for bosses/ full clears/achieves)

Edited July 26, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Dante.1763]

4 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Well I like WvW, but I like PvE stuff more, and I don't have enought time in live for both at the same time which lands me in roughtly same cart as you 🙂

(roughtly because I didn't have PC for beta, and when I got PC for launch I still needed couple months to get money to buy the game itself xD, but I have similar rank, and got unlocked like one of the "easy" ascended bits)

Glad im not the only one xD

I played on an awful laptop that could barely eek out 10 fps when the game launched. Truly the worst experience in gaming.

[Norbe.7630]

I think the best set for Light Armor is the WvW, then for Medium Armor its the PvP, then for Heavy Armor is PvE
no need to reskin those

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Going back to the op. Gw2effeincy has added a legendary armory tab, which lists what is a max unlocked armory with all 15 sets of legendary armor. You know there will be players attenpting to have a fully unlocked armory, including ridiculous things like have 8 greatswords ( 10 after eod drops). So even though you think there is no worth in having two legendary armor of the same weight class, there are players in the game that do see value in it.

[ArchonWing.9480]

6 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Not sure whose post you were responding to with yours, but I can assure you that "capping ruins" to get pips is the worst idea. It is plain boring, and WvW isn't usually about boredom. If you want to earn pips and have fun at the same time, join a squad and have fights conquering or defending objects. Even a karma train is more fun than capping ruins.

Yea I know; that's what I said. But a lot of people may see things differently. Someone that actually plays the game would probably not ever think of doing it.

 

However, it's not even good for lazy people, so to me it's bizarre that it even came up. I think it would be a very specific type of player.

 

5 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Yeah I am unsure how it looks like rn, but back in the days when I was doing active wvw farms, the most common way to "afk" pip farm would be cap flipping. Basically the cap between the spawns on borderlands would always get flipped on cd, regardless of side, so idea would be flipping it (gives 10min timer) come back to wp, wait for it to get flipped, wait for the cd, flip it again, rinse and repeat.

 

You don't even need to rotate between two camps for the most of it, and camp flip gives 10 minutes bump to activity timer. Tho I doubt anyone has patience to do that for most of the week, for alot of weeks in a row.....

 

EDIT:

  

 

It was my understanding, that ruin capping used to be cheese way to afk/bot pips farm, but AN fixed this very quickly, and it is no longer valid way to do it.

 

Yea that hasn't really changed. One thing that helps is to kill guards outside towers or even keeps regardless if you have any intention of taking that structure so if someone flips it later when you're afk you get credit.

 

In EBG it's probably easiest because you can repair either the forward two towards that get trebbed a lot or SMC. Also escorting Dolyaks can help refresh participation

 

Personally, I just get up to level 6 and just let it drain whenever since it's pretty easy to build if playing actively.

 

Ah, so it was probably a thing in the past I guess but let's be honest, what wasn't broken in the past. 😉 Well, they fixed it so we're all good.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Moradorin.6217]

13 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

If there is no skin for the wvw / pvp armor, the players who crafted them still MADE A CHOICE to craft them. 

 

People will whine when ever there's a chance to get free gold. shrug. 

I stand by the comment - no free gold /refund (can't even call it a compensation) for anyone.

No one is looking for "free gold". You seem to totally missunderstand the situation.

 

The situation is many people like myself already have 3 legendary sets of armor that coveres Medium, Heavy, and Light. I have my armor and wouldnt be getting a refund for anything.

 

I do however, hope/expect, to be able to spend use the same upgrade paths others are able to use to be able to get the other "Legendary Armor Skin Sets" without having to craft 2 totally useless sets of legendary armor at the cost of about 5k gold while other people are able to craft 1 set of med, heavy, light and get all the "Legendary Armor Skin Sets" by only crafting 1 med, heavy, light just because they crafted 3 sets of Envoy. I have a set of Envoy but it isnt my only legendary set. 

 

The only way to resolve this issue for thousands of players is to do one of the two things I suggest. I

 

f you have another proposed solution that resolves the imbalance I would welcome it, However, your response lacks any reasoning that would actually suggest my post was wrong. It was kinda pointlessly negative. Would be nice if you could make more productive suggestions.

[Moradorin.6217]

duplicate

Edited July 26, 2021 by Moradorin.6217
duplicate

[Moradorin.6217]

5 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

You can however rotate between two camps and their sentries with ease!

Again that would be boring AF and your scenario ignores the fact that you cannot run bewtween two camps for two guard posts or two of anything and get participation unless its all getting recapped by the opposing team. In other words, in order to bounce between two camps, or what not, you would end up facing actual player opponents who are doing the recap. So its not gona be this simple fantasy of running some delusional raiders are suggesting.

 

Do you know how mant clueless leeches I see when I post training and practice runs for raids every week??? The raid community has an extremely distorted view of things when it comes to raid vs wvw/pvp. Just flat out delusional.

[Moradorin.6217]

Example of typical raider: training run or even normal run that doesnt require allot of KP at Deimos or Sabetha, etc. most of the time all the lazy raiders dont wana do cannons or dont know to cc and focus saul or ignore prides or dont get heavy bombs, etc, etc. Know why?? They want a carry!!

 

added: Every game mode with legendary armor has leeches. Its not a valid justification not to balance the procurement paths.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Dante.1763]

28 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Again that would be boring AF and your scenario ignores the fact that you cannot run bewtween two camps for two guard posts or two of anything and get participation unless its all getting recapped by the opposing team. In other words, in order to bounce between two camps, or what not, you would end up facing actual player opponents who are doing the recap. So its not gona be this simple fantasy of running some delusional raiders are suggesting.

 

Do you know how mant clueless leeches I see when I post training and practice runs for raids every week??? The raid community has an extremely distorted view of things when it comes to raid vs wvw/pvp. Just flat out delusional.

When i do wvw thats all i do. But thanks for telling me i cant do, what i do when i play. I waypoint away when i see other players(On my ele or ranger), or i stealth and disengage on my thief.

 

Im also not part of the raid community, and trying to get into said community has been incredibly hard to do. I do want Envoy armor, but ill probably never be able to get it.

[Moradorin.6217]

15 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

When i do wvw thats all i do. But thanks for telling me i cant do, what i do when i play. I waypoint away when i see other players(On my ele or ranger), or i stealth and disengage on my thief.

 

Im also not part of the raid community, and trying to get into said community has been incredibly hard to do. I do want Envoy armor, but ill probably never be able to get it.

Right but so are you over Rank 500 to get Mistforged for that matter? It will take allot of running around avoiding actually doing wvw in wvw to hit rank 500. Personally, I would find that to be the least fun way I can think of to get some legendary armor. IMO you will have allot more fun if you just learn to actually do combat and take keeps, towers, garri, etc

 

Raiding isn't hard. Getting into the community isnt hard either. Most people look for a guild, but many just use RA. I avoid RA cause I have heard its always full of people wanting to get carried. =p

Edited July 26, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[ArchonWing.9480]

17 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

When i do wvw thats all i do. But thanks for telling me i cant do, what i do when i play. I waypoint away when i see other players(On my ele or ranger), or i stealth and disengage on my thief.

 

 

 

Nobody is telling you what you can't do. But we can tell you what you haven't done, and that's getting legendary armor with said method.

 

  

3 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Right but so are you over Rank 500 to get Mistforged for that matter? It will take allot of running around avoiding actually doing wvw in wvw to hit rank 500. Personally, I would find that to be the least fun way I can think of to get some legendary armor. IMO you will have allot more fun if you just learn to actually do combat and take keeps, towers, garri, etc

 

You don't need 500 for the legendary; just that fancier skin.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Moradorin.6217]

8 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Nobody is telling you what you can't do. But we can tell you what you haven't done, and that's getting legendary armor with said method.

 

  

 

You don't need Mistforged for the legendary.

 

Right but, my point is that people who arent event able to get mistforged skins due to lack of rank dont fall into the category Im talking about.

 

That is, a person who isnt going for Mistforged skins or Envoy skins really isnt part of this debate. 

 

The way I see it is anyone who is getting mistforged and also doing Perfected envoy is at least a reasonably dedicated player to each game mode so anyone who would benefit from the changes I propose wouldnt be able to just run in circles and end up with all 3 skins sets. Its a fallacy to suggest people can just afk farm and get all 3 sets.

 

All 3 modes have leeches, but I think the typical player wants to do well but its a big game with many players who fall into a wide range of experience and skill levels. Leeches aside I think most people who have Mistforged Legendary armor and/or Perfected Envoy are serious players who are dedicated to serious builds, and working to get better and play well. Afterall, why the kitten would a the most lazy afk farming pve types go through a ton of work and time to get legendary armor if they dont care about build and gear? Think about it a second.

 

The only people who are willing to go through the work to get legendary armor are be definition dedicated players. Even the most lazy wvw/pvp leech methods would require a dedication of sorts, abeit its not the kinda dedication we all like to see. It would see be allot of work to afk farm all the way to rank 500 (with that kitten xp of afk farming) and the 8000+ tickets iirc it takes to make a set of armor. Same goes for the most lazy raider who is 100% leeching. It would take them allot of work to get Envoy 1 + 2 and enough LI etc from leeching RA runs etc.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Dante.1763]

15 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Nobody is telling you what you can't do. But we can tell you what you haven't done, and that's getting legendary armor with said method.

 

  

 

You don't need 500 for the legendary; just that fancier skin.

 

I totally could, if i wanted to spend 4 hours a day doing it. or rather, if i didnt have so much stuff to do in PVE id be able to devote more time to raids, or wvw and get their armors, and in fact half my wvw levels came from a single week when thats all i did.

 

At the moment having to do either raids or wvw means not doing pve at all, and well, thats not something im going to do.

12 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Right but, my point is that people who arent event able to get mistforged skins due to lack of rank dont fall into the category Im talking about.

 

That is, a person who isnt going for Mistforged skins or Envoy skins really isnt part of this debate. 

 

The way I see it is anyone who is getting mistforged and also doing Perfected envoy is at least a reasonably dedicated player to each game mode so anyone who would benefit from the changes I propose wouldnt be able to just run in circles and end up with all 3 skins sets. Its a fallacy to suggest people can just afk farm and get all 3 sets.

I agree with you about not being able to afk and get them, it does require some effort. i do however disagree with you about only dedicated players being able to get legendary armor.

 

I can, and its looking more and more like im going to have to, buy raids to get the armor, at least the collections done. That doesnt require much dedication at all. WVW and PVP requires more than that. xD

 

Edit: had to go back and find your proposed changes, those look decent honestly. But i doubt anet will do it 😞

 

And i 100% agree that wvw and pvp needs their own skin.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dante.1763