I love GW2, but the slow development is too apparent.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

Hey gang, this feeling has been sort of bubbling inside, and i feel like finally venting it out.

I started playing GW2 around either late 2013 or early 2014, a few months maybe a year before the release of HoT and the base game going free.
Initially picked up GW2 because at that age, i finally became a self sustaining adult that could afford just buying games he wanted, but at the same time i wasn't interested in paying monthly subscriptions. However i did stick around for far longer than expected because the game was actually really, really good. Even when attempting other games that existed later on, including going on trials for other games that did have subscriptions like FF14, i always seemed disappointed and ran straight back to GW2.

Sadly the main issue this game has, and the reason why i'm forced to constantly take "long breaks" from GW2 to keep it as a game i really enjoy and cherish, is the exteremly slow development.
New content is scarse and even minor updates are quite rare.  SPVP feels completely abandonded, with even balance patches being near non existent. I'm not aware of WvW having any real change since the release of PoF either.
In terms of PVE, although living world content does get added, it's exhaustingly slow.

Even the holiday festivals. They never change. For nearly a decade there's the same Christmass or Halloween event. I don't even feel compelled to log into it anymore.
I rememeber even 15 years ago playing Runescape we had different easter, christmass and halloween events EVERY year.

As an example for myself, i take breaks often because i feel like i run out of things to do. In my recent comeback i realized "Hey i never did LS4, that's odd".
I had a bit of free time and went through them. Each episode taking roughly about a day to complete, i must say i even enjoyed the maps that come with them, even got myself a beetle.
I then got curious and looked up the release date of LS4.    2017-2019.
6 episodes of the previous story arc started over 4 years ago, and ended about 2 after.
That's about 1 episode every 4 months, lasting 2 years to complete an fairly short arc and that also means that if we're looking at GW2 as having "seasons" and Icebrood( the current season) being Season 5. Season 4 was 5 years ago.

Other games, ones i don't enjoy, or some enjoy far less, get frequent updates, FF14 gets updated weekly, with major updates every month or so.
However i don't play it because the core game is far less enjoyable to me than GW2, but i also don't really play GW2 in long bursts because you pretty much run out of things to do unless you grind for rare items (Collections for legendary items for the most part).
It seems like the optimal way to play GW2, is when you're really busy and have 1-3 hours a week to put in. You don't burn through the short amount of content that exists too quickly, and since the game respects your time with no gear treadmil or subscriptions you can always hop in and out of it.

Also, i don't really know if "Just new maps and some story in them" is the best game to go. The population in GW2 isn't really growing anymore, and just further diving the playerbase between more and more maps when the game already has SO many of them seems a bit counter productive. (Icebrood seemed to sort of tackle this, by instead of adding new maps every episode, expanded on previous icebrood maps)

Now i don't know if Guild wars 2 simply isn't profitble enough for this slow devolpment or/and is it an issue of management ( I heard plenty of rumors about "woke" politics causing quite a bit of issues from within ANET), but i'm gonna be honest. I love GW2, and i'd be willing to pay a monthly fee, maybe not 15 but 5-8 to make the game profitable enough for it not to be so slow developed and not abandonding PVP aspects.
More income would maybe even bring in the so sought for Engine/Graphical rehaul the game desepartely needs in my opinion, but that's obviously not a prioirty over more frequent updates.

I was hoping a Steam release would maybe ignite some interest for people, but that has been delayed for eternity.

Edited August 2, 2021 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Touchme.1097]

GW2 needs a better advertising to become popular, this is the current weakness I see right now. There is a lot of room for improvements in the communication strategies and development, but I live this to the higher ups to deal with.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Touchme.1097

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Blizzard had like 2500 devs on a protest. 

I don't know how many devs Ff14 has. 

 

Anet has devs in the low hundreds.  Like 200-300 maybe. 

Anet is simply not as big as other MMO companies. 

 

Just because two people sell a similar product doesn't mean you can put both to the same standards. 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281

[DaniTheHero.6318]

17 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Blizzard had like 2500 devs on a protest. 

I don't know how many devs Ff14 has. 

 

Anet has devs in the low hundreds.  Like 200-300 maybe. 

Anet is simply not as big as other MMO companies. 

 

Just because two people sell a similar product doesn't mean you can put both to the same standards. 

 

 

 

Perhaps a solution to at least slightly close that gap is to
1) Actually advertise the game? In 8 years i have never seen any sort of advertisment for this game anywhere and only have heard of it thanks to a friend.
The only time there's any sort of "mainstream" reach, is when companies like IGN upload trailers for the Expansions, but why would anyone care for trailer of an expansion for an MMO they not only haven't ever played, but maybe didn't even hear of by name before.
Paying some Youtubers or Streamers to play the game and finally complete that Steam edition would be a great start.

2)Maybe it's time to employ a mothly fee. Maybe not a fully blown 15 bucks a month, but at least 5?
Like it or not,  having that passive income brings in 10s of millions of not hundred of millions of passive yearly income for the company. That's quite a lot of money for hiring more devs, paying more for current ones and ultimately actually updating a game more than twice a year.
I have been playing this game for 8 years for "Free", I wouldn't mind paying a tad to make this game not just "survive" but actually thrive.

Edited August 2, 2021 by DaniTheHero.6318

[stubbiz.4921]

Slow,maybe. But Gw2 is also a totally different mmo to those you named here. There is no need for that fast updates and progression. 

Guildwars2 is the casual players Dreams. How many popular mmo's can yo just quit for a few months, log back inn and just start again with no penalty or catching UP to do. Only loss is player skills ofc.  GW2 is truly an unike and greate mmo.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

1 minute ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Perhaps a solution to at least slightly close that gap is to
1) Actually advertise the game? In 8 years i have never seen any sort of advertisment for this game. Anywhere and only have heard of it thanks to a friend.
The only time there's any sort of "mainstream" reach, is when companies like IGN upload trailers for the Expansions, but why would anyone care for trailer of an expansion for an MMO they not only haven't ever played, but maybe didn't even hear of by name before.
Paying some Youtubers or Streamers to play the game and finally complete that Steam edition would be a great start.

2)Maybe it's time to employ a mothly fee. Maybe not a fully blown 15 bucks a month, but at least 5?
Like it or not,  having that passive income brings in 10s of millions of not hundred of millions of passive yearly income for the company. That's quite a lot of money for hiring more devs, paying more for current ones and ultimately actually updating a game more than twice a year.
I have been playing this game for 8 years for "Free", I wouldn't mind paying a tad to make this game not just "survive" but actually thrive.

 

It may sound stupid but I'm not even sure if I want Gw2 to "thrive". 

 

If that means we get all the Wow Andy's and Hype Timmy's. 

 

I have seen what it did to FF14. Yes it got a boost but this won't stay up long because it's different from Wow. 

 

Either FF14 changes to apeal to Wow players or it will be down again in 6 months to the level it had before. 

 

Anet should advertise what makes Gw2 different from other mmos. (like the brilliant mounts and gear system) 

 

But we as a player also need to realize that what Gw2 offers is not what most MMO players want. 

 

A gear treadmill with a golden carrot on a stick in front of them that they can chase forever. (Wow in a nutshell.)

 

 

 

 

[DaniTheHero.6318]

7 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

It may sound stupid but I'm not even sure if I want Gw2 to "thrive". 

 

If that means we get all the Wow Andy's and Hype Timmy's. 

 

I have seen what it did to FF14. Yes it got a boost but this won't stay up long because it's different from Wow. 

 

Either FF14 changes to apeal to Wow players or it will be down again in 6 months to the level it had before. 

 

Anet should advertise what makes Gw2 different from other mmos. (like the brilliant mounts and gear system) 

 

But we as a player also need to realize that what Gw2 offers is not what most MMO players want. 

 

A gear treadmill with a golden carrot on a stick in front of them that they can chase forever. (Wow in a nutshell.)

 

 

 

 

don't think i understand what you are trying to say.

I never said i want GW2 to change, i like it because it's different to other mmos.
I'm saying i want to to thrive, i want more players to play it and i want "more" of the good stuff that makes GW2 so good, along side the more objectively bad things to be fixed/addressed.
I don't want one PVE update every 4-6 months, i don't want SPVP and WvW to receive one update a year or two.

And i don't want the only "goal" in the game being end game item collections.

The game is fantastic, the best on the market, but has the potentional to be far better and has quite a bit of rough ages that at this point only money can fix.
 

This of course if the rumors i heard aren't true, as i stated previously i keep hearing that ANET is having major managment issues. from the usual coperate problems to the more recent "Going too woke" kind of thing.
ANET ain't shy about broadcasting how "progressive" they are(Jormag is a..they? Instead of It or Her?), but usually from within these things cause quite a bit of conflicts.

Edited August 2, 2021 by DaniTheHero.6318

[LSD.4673]

It's tiresome how these threads always turn out blind praise for the game and criticism of players of other MMOs.

"Does anyone think this is the most revolutionary best game ever? Not for all those dumb mainstream players and i want to keep it that way!"

 

[Raknar.4735]

Neither subs nor the higher amount of developers helped WoW out of its Shadowlands content drought.

 

You can‘t reasonably create content as fast as players consume it.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 minutes ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

 

don't think i understand what you are trying to say.

I never said i want GW2 to change, i like it because it's different to other mmos.
I'm saying i want to to thrive, i want more players to play it and i want "more" of the good stuff that makes GW2 so good, along side the more objectively bad things to be fixed/addressed.
I don't want one PVE update every 4-6 months, i don't want SPVP and WvW to receive one update a year or two.

And i don't want the only "goal" in the game being end game item collections.

The game is fantastic, the best on the market, but has the potentional to be far better and has quite a bit of rough ages that at this point only money can fix.
 

This of course if the rumors i heard aren't true, as i stated previously i keep hearing that ANET is having major managment issues. from the usual coperate problems to the more recent "Going too woke" kind of thing.
ANET ain't shy about broadcasting how "progressive" they are(Jormag is a..they? Instead of It or Her?), but usually from within these things cause quite a bit of conflicts.

 

People who hate what the average MMO does but still want to play an MMO are already playing Gw2. 

 

Gw2 would need to appeal to a bigger audience if you want to see a significant growth. 

 

Which would mean change in some Form. 

I already see/hear/read it everyday, even here on the forum. 

 

People trying/wanting to make gw2 more like wow. 

 

It rather have Gw2 stay true to its target audience then trying to catch "Wow refugees" that will leave again the second Blizzard gets back on track again. 

 

 

 

 

[Crono.4197]

LW4 and Icebrood Saga episodes came out once every 2 months. You calculated 4 months because you didn't take festivals into consideration. When festivals come, the episodes around them are delayed.

 

Also most MMOs I've played had their updates a lot slower than Guild Wars 2 updates and don't forget that most MMOs are gear based. That means that MMOs that get updated every 3 months or so usually bring new dungeons in order for people to get new gear and well, that's it. Other games even recycle old dungeons just to bring new gear for players (Tera for example). Look at all the MMOs, not just two of them and also compare what kind of games those are with what kind of game Guild Wars 2 is. I'm fine with how ArenaNet brings content to be honest, they bring more content than 90% of the other MMOs in the industry do. WoW, Final Fantasy XIV and Guild Wars 2 aren't the only MMOs on the market you know. WoW and FF 14 are just the most mainstream of them all. Too many people compare these 3 MMOs between them.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Crono.4197

[Rasimir.6239]

I don't think it's slow development as much as just less carrots on sticks than most other MMOs currently produce.

 

You spend a day to "finish" a living world episode? I can usually spend days and weeks on each one, exploring the map, doing the story on different characters (and usually noticing new and interesting things each playthrough), putting together things I find on the map and things I hear in story instances, and just thoroughly enjoying myself in getting to know this new part of the world.

 

You could say I'm more interested in the immersive experience, less in the "checklist - story, map completion, achievements" aspect of the game. That to me is where GW2 is brilliant, as you can fully loose yourself in the world without hampering your ability to experience other parts of the game. I don't need to grind for specific equipment or achievements to be able to unlock content, I can just go where I want.

 

I can see how that is a problem for players more interested in the checklist part of the game, but for me, this game is in a pretty good spot. Comparing it to the other MMO I play (ESO), I personally get a lot more entertainment out of a year of GW2 updates than I do get out of a year of ESO updates (including being able to play the bellchoire at Wintersday each year 😍).

[Follyfoot.2803]

1 hour ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Also, i don't really know if "Just new maps and some story in them" is the best game to go. The population in GW2 isn't really growing anymore, and just further diving the playerbase between more and more maps when the game already has SO many of them seems a bit counter productive. (Icebrood seemed to sort of tackle this, by instead of adding new maps every episode, expanded on previous icebrood maps)
 

Bares the question which would be better?  A expansion or a major overhaul of what they have already have?  They already have great maps and environments it's just the mechanics are left in the past as well as some silly mistakes made.  Have high and low level content on the same map for instance, bring players together rather than pushing them further apart.

One things for sure, they need to address those smaller issues that people keep mentioning or requesting if they want to keep hold of those people they have.  A growing number are getting fed-up with being ignored.

[LucianDK.8615]

13 minutes ago, Follyfoot.2803 said:

Bares the question which would be better?  A expansion or a major overhaul of what they have already have?  They already have great maps and environments it's just the mechanics are left in the past as well as some silly mistakes made.  Have high and low level content on the same map for instance, bring players together rather than pushing them further apart.

One things for sure, they need to address those smaller issues that people keep mentioning or requesting if they want to keep hold of those people they have.  A growing number are getting fed-up with being ignored.

Whom is ignored?  I doubt you have any numbers on such.

And people takes breaks all the time, its not like you need to keep playing due to the no subscription model.

[Dante.1763]

16 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Whom is ignored?  I doubt you have any numbers on such.

And people takes breaks all the time, its not like you need to keep playing due to the no subscription model.

I think they mean the threads requesting QOL features: better block/friend list, better mail function, colour blind settings(yes there needs to be more thab one.) graphical settings to turn off or lower other players effects without having to resort to culling them entirely.

 

 

[DaniTheHero.6318]

46 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Whom is ignored?  I doubt you have any numbers on such.

And people takes breaks all the time, its not like you need to keep playing due to the no subscription model.

I mean people who play PVP are ignored for one.
Not only has that part of the game not being touched on in ages, not only is balancing patches are a very rare sight to behold but it's infested with bots.
And the sad thing is that these bots are in some way can be a godsend, because so people little people play the mode now because of these 3 issues that now ironically having bots is the only time to get a decent queue time when you're playing at peak time.

 

[DaniTheHero.6318]

29 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

I think they mean the threads requesting QOL features: better block/friend list, better mail function, colour blind settings(yes there needs to be more thab one.) graphical settings to turn off or lower other players effects without having to resort to culling them entirely.

 

 

Yes. There's plenty of things that can be reworked/fixed.

Just because we all obviously think GW2 is the best MMO right now or else we wouldn't be playing it over the others, it doesn't mean it doesn't have any flaws.
And wanting these flaws being addressed would be nice.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot.2803 said:

Bares the question which would be better?  A expansion or a major overhaul of what they have already have?  They already have great maps and environments it's just the mechanics are left in the past as well as some silly mistakes made.  Have high and low level content on the same map for instance, bring players together rather than pushing them further apart.

One things for sure, they need to address those smaller issues that people keep mentioning or requesting if they want to keep hold of those people they have.  A growing number are getting fed-up with being ignored.

Well you said so yourself, bringing people together would be better than further dividing them with dozens new maps.
Icebrood maps sort of tackled this by introducing huge maps instead that sort of acted like 2-3 maps, this way new content was added to existing maps without actually dividing the people playing on them.

I'm sure there is a way to implement this to previous maps, and if not, at the very least make sure new maps won't follow this trend.
1-2 new maps that would stretch the whole season that would constantly get larger and larger is the way to go.
 

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

 

don't think i understand what you are trying to say.

I never said i want GW2 to change, i like it because it's different to other mmos.
I'm saying i want to to thrive, i want more players to play it and i want "more" of the good stuff that makes GW2 so good, along side the more objectively bad things to be fixed/addressed.
I don't want one PVE update every 4-6 months, i don't want SPVP and WvW to receive one update a year or two.

And i don't want the only "goal" in the game being end game item collections.

The game is fantastic, the best on the market, but has the potentional to be far better and has quite a bit of rough ages that at this point only money can fix.
 

This of course if the rumors i heard aren't true, as i stated previously i keep hearing that ANET is having major managment issues. from the usual coperate problems to the more recent "Going too woke" kind of thing.
ANET ain't shy about broadcasting how "progressive" they are(Jormag is a..they? Instead of It or Her?), but usually from within these things cause quite a bit of conflicts.

Just wow. You're saying because Anet is more progressive, it causes problems.  Where as non progressive companies like Blizzard are doing fine.  I'd rather play a game with fewer players than a game with more players that doesn't fit the bill.

 

This game is a niche game, because it appeals to a smaller segment of the MMO playerbase who have been playing wow clones for so long they think that's the way MMOs have to be.  That's it. You want them you have to change the game. Or you keep a core stable playerbase and you grow it slowly.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Just wow. You're saying because Anet is more progressive, it causes problems.  Where as non progressive companies like Blizzard are doing fine.  I'd rather play a game with fewer players than a game with more players that doesn't fit the bill.

 

This game is a niche game, because it appeals to a smaller segment of the MMO playerbase who have been playing wow clones for so long they think that's the way MMOs have to be.  That's it. You want them you have to change the game. Or you keep a core stable playerbase and you grow it slowly.

No. I said money is obviously the reason. I also said that i heard many comments and rumors about ANET internal mangament issues and if that is true that could also be a factor.
As history clearly shows, companies that constantly project "progressiveness" tend to have a lot of internal problems. The recent developments in Blizzard are a very good example of such as in reality they were very backwards and toxic from within.

I don't really understand what's "niche" about GW2. If anything WoW and FF14 are far more niche, and people who enjoy them cling to the MMO ideal of 20 years ago. GW2 actually improved on a lot of aspects, making it far more "modern" to play, which would appeal to more people going into the MMO genre, but the problem is that 1) Almost nobody knows about GW2 other than people who already play it or people that play an opposing game already and enjoy mocking competitors. This is mainly due to the non existent advertisment and lack of Steam version (FF14 and ESO benefited quite a bit from it).
2) It's hard to actually update a game properly when you don't have that passive dozens of hunderds of million dollars pouring in that other competitors have just by existing.

Edited August 2, 2021 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Danikat.8537]

I like the pace of development in this game. I like that I don't need to play for hours every day just to keep up with the new stuff being released, and especially that I don't need to grind each new area over and over just to get the equipment required to be allowed into the next new area. I can take breaks or play less overall because I'm playing other games as well, and when I am playing GW2 I can focus on the things I enjoy doing and take my time with them.

 

I haven't even been keeping up with the Return to the Living World events which have been running, because I decided I wanted to play more WvW instead and while I know that means I'm going to get the new legendary amulet long after other people have gotten it that's ok because it won't hold me back from doing other content.

 

I've never reached a point where I felt like I had nothing to do in this game, and I'd much rather play one where I know I can do it as much or as little as I feel like and on my own schedule than one where I feel like I'm constantly racing to keep up.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Now i don't know if Guild wars 2 simply isn't profitble enough for this slow devolpment or/and is it an issue of management ( I heard plenty of rumors about "woke" politics causing quite a bit of issues from within ANET), but i'm gonna be honest. I love GW2, and i'd be willing to pay a monthly fee, maybe not 15 but 5-8 to make the game profitable enough for it not to be so slow developed and not abandonding PVP aspects.

There were indeed management problems, but they had nothing with any kind of "woke" politics (in fact, i don't even know what you might be alluding to by referring to this). They were simply a consequence of few things:

First, the head boss was a really good developer, and probably good team leader, but that did not transform into him being a good manager of a much bigger studio. That's unfortunately a very common problem among the small businesses that suddenly make it big, by the way.

 

Second, a lot of devs never actually played their own game, or played only small parts of it (the original group of devs was heavily PvP skewed, for example - even among those that did not actually play)

 

And then we have the marketing, that was always interested only in maximizing the cash flow from players without ever considering the impact it might have on them.

 

There were also hints we've heard early in the game's history that there was really little communication between devs and higher management, which often ended in decisions being made without feedback from devs

 

And finally that very same higher management was highly resistant to any form of negative feedback from players. Personally, i don;t think that was any form of arrogance or such, by the way. I think that simply people like MO were too emotionally invested into their game, and were just unable to deal well with backlash when they happened to make a wrong decision. (which, btw, brings us back to the first point i mentioned)

 

 

2 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

More income would maybe even bring in the so sought for Engine/Graphical rehaul the game desepartely needs in my opinion, but that's obviously not a prioirty over more frequent updates..

The engine update (well, the dx update so far, but we've been told it's just an introductory phase for a later, bigger overhaul) is actually coming, and we've been told we might see first effects late this year (so, even before EoD).

[Vayne.8563]

22 minutes ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

No. I said money is obviously the reason. I also said that i heard many comments and rumors about ANET internal mangament issues and if that is true that could also be a factor.
As history clearly shows, companies that constantly project "progressiveness" tend to have a lot of internal problems. The recent developments in Blizzard are a very good example of such as in reality they were very backwards and toxic from within.

I don't really understand what's "niche" about GW2. If anything WoW and FF14 are far more niche, and people who enjoy them cling to the MMO ideal of 20 years ago. GW2 actually improved on a lot of aspects, making it far more "modern" to play, which would appeal to more people going into the MMO genre, but the problem is that 1) Almost nobody knows about GW2 other than people who already play it or people that play an opposing game already and enjoy mocking competitors. This is mainly due to the non existent advertisment and lack of Steam version (FF14 and ESO benefited quite a bit from it).
2) It's hard to actually update a game properly when you don't have that passive dozens of hunderds of million dollars pouring in that other competitors have just by existing.

I've heard many rumors too. Your rumors are just that. Rumors.  No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.  I heard rumors that Amazon hired away a bunch of Anet's top talent and then canceled a bunch of games. It's business. Not everyone business is going to be the top business and that's okay.

 

Players for years, many years, have been introduced to gear grind as the defacto progression in a theme park MMO. WoW made it popular and everyone does it. Levels go up. Stats go up. Numbers go up. People who expect to see there numbers go up won't play for skins. That's what makes this game niche. This is an open world game geared to casual players and you know...that's pretty much unheard of in MMO space. Which is why the game has the success it has. It's also why it's not the top tier MMO.

It's not always about money.

[Teratus.2859]

Slow development is better than rushed development.

Taking breaks from the game is a good thing if you ask me.
I'm just starting to return from a very long one myself after the finale of the Icebrood Saga really turned me off the game for a while.

If you ask me there is nothing more harmful for a game than feeling forced to play it when you really don't want to.
Gw2 lacking a sub gives you total freedom in this regard to just stop playing for a while and come back whenever you feel like playing again.

[witcher.3197]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Blizzard had like 2500 devs on a protest. 

I don't know how many devs Ff14 has. 

 

Anet has devs in the low hundreds.  Like 200-300 maybe. 

Anet is simply not as big as other MMO companies. 

 

Just because two people sell a similar product doesn't mean you can put both to the same standards. 

 

 

 

I recall a few years back there was an interview with Ion (WoW team lead) who said there are 300 people working on the game. So basically the same as Anet.

 

For the record WoW development is also going super slow these days but at least expansion launches have a lot to do. GW2 expansions still feel like living story bundles. Like we get no content for 2 years and then it's bundled up and sold to us with a few extra features maybe.

Edited August 2, 2021 by witcher.3197