Balance Update Preview for August 17, 2021

[GUIStuhlBein.5142]

Revenant utility skill order swapping on build template switch bugfix when? It's been years and happens to me 90% of the time.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

22 hours ago, hugo.4705 said:

how bad and useless elexir gun and tool kit feel.

I disagree with this. I made an condi engi and it plays well with elixir gun still. Engi turrets still needs a rework though. Maybe Anet should give the turrets wheels to ride along with engi like how minions move with necro.

[Loke.1429]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:54 PM, Apocaly.2786 said:

The change for weaver is irrelevant.

 

The weakness uptime is rarely a problem for fractals or raids, since in raids you mostly have weakness on the boss due to the spam of certain classes and in fractals you are crit capped by using the fractal potions anyway...

 

The barrier trait is irrelevant, since it only proccs on a single ability for the power weaver dps rotation (pyro vortex) and the increase by having healing power...well...noone is using HP in endgame content - is this some open world change?

 

This will not address the issue you actually wrote about.

Overall I think this is a really good patch, changing combo fields to make it easier to understand like this and so many good bugfixes. I also like that the things they write about balance are more correct than usual.

I do however completely agree with the quote above. It will not address the issue for weaver. Part of the problem is that the base hp and toughness is so low, and devs dont want to reward us with more dps than others for being squishy. I expect more updates here, because this one missed the mark for weaver.

[soulknight.9620]

@ArenaNet i am glad that you finally acknowleded main problem with weaver, but these "buffs" are not enough. Roughly bonus 120 barrier on every "3" skill looks like a joke when every monster in open world hits you for 2-4k depending on your def stats. Atleast double that trait barrier. And please unnerf riptide in pve (since it was only a problem in spvp/wvw). 
Weaver never had problems with weakness uptime, that trait has 3 sec of weakness atm with 3 sec cd and that 1 sec buff will not change anything.
And ofc #SaveStaffEle

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

@ArenaNet i am glad that you finally acknowleded main problem with weaver, but these "buffs" are not enough. Roughly bonus 120 barrier on every "3" skill looks like a joke when every monster in open world hits you for 2-4k depending on your def stats. Atleast double that trait barrier. And please unnerf riptide in pve (since it was only a problem in spvp/wvw). 
Weaver never had problems with weakness uptime, that trait has 3 sec of weakness atm with 3 sec cd and that 1 sec buff will not change anything.
And ofc #SaveStaffEle

You mean SaveStaffWeaver this dose nothing for core ele and tempest both classes who are more glassly then weaver already.

[Rasfar.6921]

Since you are fixing a lot of mounting bugs I would like to remind that weaver has one too. Often when you are attuned to two elements and you mount and dismount, you will end up with skill bar that has skills 1, 2, 4 and 5 from primary element and 3 being a mixed skill. 

 

So anoying in wvw when you think you have cc + burst combo ready, but you have to stall for 3 attunement swaps.

[Vavume.8065]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:21 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Combo finishers will now prioritize using your own combo fields before those created by other players, where available.

 Awesome change, been waiting for this for a long time.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Vavume.8065

[Seraphis Zurvan.6839]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:21 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Weaver

Weaver has impressive damage potential in PvE, but as many weaver mains have noted, it's often reliant on assistance from other players to maintain the necessary weakness condition on their targets, and their fragility leaves little room for mistakes in play. With this update, we're making two PvE-specific changes: improving the weaver's ability to upkeep weakness on their targets via Superior Elements, and increasing the weaver's personal sustainability by increasing the amount of barrier granted by Elemental Refreshment.

• Superior Elements: Increased the duration of applied weakness from 3 seconds to 5 seconds in PvE only.
• Elemental Refreshment: The total amount of barrier granted by this trait and the increase per point of healing power have been increased by 20% in PvE only.

As a Weaver (elementalist really) main, thank you for at least looking to improve the very big problems Weaver has. We are extremely reliant on others to output our damage and that Superior Elements does help a bit in more solo content. I think many people forget weakness is more than just a DPS increase but also a sustain increase. And the change to elemental refreshment is also a nice one!

Here's the "but" of this post. I question mainly the Elemental Refreshment change and for good reason. I'll post my reasons below. I will be using Zealot and Celestial stats for my main talking points, which are uncommon stats and never used much in high-end PvE content, but it's to try and drive a point with something tanky, and something that isn't, but both have Healing Power, and elementalist can uniquely utilize these stats well. Harrier stats can achieve the same effect here but these don't really benefit on Weaver specifically since boon giving on Weaver doesn't really exist much. This will also assume the average player, not someone who really knows Weaver extensively based on my observations. I've done raids, strikes, fractals, dungeons, and open world as a Weaver extensively, so I am going to speak purely PvE here since it's a PvE change.

Also high-end PvE content will be defined as Strikes, Raids, and Tier 4 Fractal Dungeons, which is where these problems really shine.

1. Elemental Refreshment, the barrier scales on healing power, which makes sense. But in pretty much every usecase of Weaver in high end PvE content for the current meta set by the community based on how you (Anet) have designed the class, it never has healing power. As in, the only time, by meta, an elementalist has healing power is as a Tempest, which this trait doesn't affect Tempest. Sure you can run various other stats to increase sustain (i.e. slot in some Zealot stats but you lose quite a bit of damage doing so due to the lost ferocity), but in any realistic situations this probably isn't going to happen. High DPS numbers with elementalist is extremely finicky and any minor change could substantially affect its performance as a damage dealer. Given that Weaver has no real defenses built into common uses outside of the dual skills right in the general rotations for the class...this change to the trait doesn't affect it much. If at all. You'd have to constantly break your damage rotations to stay alive, which I am going to put it bluntly, many people would rather just play a different class and get the content done rather than play the piano with their keyboard and learn Weaver (as some have put it to me).

2. The only usecases this change in the trait Elemental Refreshment is somewhat useful for a Weaver is if they're running open world in Celestial stats or Zealot Stats, and if you happen to be a DPS centric tank as a Weaver in raids utilizing Celestial stats, which is extremely rare and very few people do this. Weaver does not heal very well on its own, as in its basically a maintenance healer with their weapon skills under water attunement and its stance heal skill. Since all known common usecases of Weaver is damage centric, water is basically never touched unless they are a weaver main that happens to use it to sustain themselves. I can tell you, most people never break their damage upkeep to keep themselves alive unless they have to, relying on others to do it for them or just stop playing elementalist altogether.

3. As most PvE content, especially in high end content, 521 barrier (which is 20% added from the current 434 base, I am not sure if this is accurate if you calculate it differently), is basically still nothing compared to being hit by anything. Adding 639 Healing Power from celestial stats (assuming full ascended/legendary, as that's how much full ascended/legendary celestial gives) makes it crawl up to 618, which might save you from one single hit barely from certain encounters if it didn't give the +639 toughness and vitality (i.e. mixing stats to add some healing power, not necessarily celestial). Zealot stats where you don't have +639 toughness and Vitality, and just around 1000-ish healing power.....you're looking at maybe 727-ish barrier? That'll might let you take one or two extra attacks from some enemies in high-end 80 content before the next kills you unless you're either very good at dodging, or somehow have a constant vigor boon and hope you have someone to save you with said content. Champion enemies, even with a lot of people there to help you, you're going down a lot unless you really know what you're doing or have a dedicated healer with you. Since we are assuming average player....I hope my point can be seen here.

The main driving point here is the change is welcome, but with how Weaver it currently designed and used, it doesn't really do anything in the current metas for it.

Take this how you will but these are my initial thoughts based on experiences with Weaver, observations other others playing the class, and the proposed changes here.

#FixStaffEle

Edited August 15, 2021 by Seraphis Zurvan.6839

[seina.5203]

Please for the love of god fix Herald's facets.  When you go underwater and back out of water they stop pulsing boons and you have to use the CDs and wait to reapply them.  It's been broken since HoT, stop waiting 5 years to fix the most annoying bugs pls.

[Karnn.4569]

Would like a bug fix for balance patch notes please.

 

 

I'm glad were getting bug fixes.

However these are things that should be  getting fixed regularly and putting bug fixes in a balance patches makes them feel like filler and doesn't look good.

 

Can we get a bug fix to debug the future balance patches, and regular sweeps for game bugs to show proper maintenance of the product is a priority?

 

If the balance team has been condensed into the same team as bug fixes this leaves concern for proper maintenance capability.

I do not know if this is the case but the way we got these notes makes it seem that way.

It could be both teams just condensed their fixes into a single patch, however if that is the case the balance portion comes off as underwhelming.

300 sec CD traits and many other things on classes not even listed haven't been fixed. However were at the point of voice acting QOL changes for other classes are being added this looks bad optically, and makes priorities seem a bit skewed atm.

 

I do not know the in house situation I can only comment as a consumer seeing the notes.

I will state good clean patch notes are always appreciated as it is a form of communication with your consumer base, who many of, myself included have been with you for many years.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Karnn.4569

[HybridZ.1520]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:21 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Celestial Avatar: Players can now use the mount key while in Celestial Avatar. Doing so will automatically deactivate Celestial Avatar. Any remaining Astral Force is lost upon deactivating Celestial Avatar in this way.

 

Why does the Druid lose all accumulated Astral Force instead of just going to 50% of its current Astral Force level (like it does currently when you leave/are forced out of Celestial Avatar)?

[FADA.6041]

Well, time to change class, no more Scourge 🤷‍♂️

[anduriell.6280]

On 8/14/2021 at 1:50 AM, Cougre.6543 said:

The current changes miss the mark on nerfing scourge's utility to which it has uncompromised access while being built for damage. To truly follow through on this nerf, Desert Empowerment must also be nerfed.

all scourge skills should provide barrier only to the scourge and a trait will activate the barrier share, the smae as Sand Flare and abrasive grit.

That trait should be a GM compiting with Demonic Lore and Sand Savant.

 

so Dessert empowerment would only provide barrier to the scourge. Feed from Corruption moved to master to compite with desset empowerment and Sadistic Searing. 

 

Herald of Sorrow to replace Abbrasive Grit in Adept.

And there you go a simple reorder of the traits makes the scourge or to choose support or offensive shades.

 

[Loke.1429]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:21 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Elementalist

Weaver

Weaver has impressive damage potential in PvE, but as many weaver mains have noted, it's often reliant on assistance from other players to maintain the necessary weakness condition on their targets, and their fragility leaves little room for mistakes in play. With this update, we're making two PvE-specific changes: improving the weaver's ability to upkeep weakness on their targets via Superior Elements, and increasing the weaver's personal sustainability by increasing the amount of barrier granted by Elemental Refreshment.

• Superior Elements: Increased the duration of applied weakness from 3 seconds to 5 seconds in PvE only.
• Elemental Refreshment: The total amount of barrier granted by this trait and the increase per point of healing power have been increased by 20% in PvE only.

On a re-read this comes off as trollish. "Damage potential", "PvE only", "mistakes in play". This is not the feedback you are getting. A chain of skills longer than your list of wvw development goals/promises wants to have a word with you. A chain that breaks easily, then you take out the feather and start tickling the enemy for ages. Yay! Just change all my skills to "Break your fingers and sell the piano", 0,01 damage coefficient with auto logout and quick reroll your biased classes. Troll some more on Guild Chat, make fun of ele downstate, ignore the issue, insult the playerbase. The damage isn't even that good, and these changes give like 100more barrier and 2 more weakness per 15 seconds or something? Why don't you just delete staff. Ele can no longer use staff, perfect balance. PvE only changes are worthless to me, how will you show that WvW is such a cornerstone game mode to you?

Edited August 15, 2021 by Loke.1429

[Anchoku.8142]

Like the two primary changes too the Necromancer profession; Lingering Curses and increased separation between Scourge support and dps with trimming in PvP. 

 

Also like the change to combination field priority and visibility and hope the system develops further into something more potent and complex.

 

Will see how it plays out this week.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Anchoku.8142

[ArgonDB.1243]

Sorry but this Balance Patch dont touch (again) a Broken class thief for pvp and wvw? perma invisible perma evade????? nice patch ah EOD create (at least)  a 2 new thief.... oooook nice Good Job. PS in wvw Thief and Scrapper (I've only see this 2) enter in tower without breaking the walls patch this please TYVM

[Lazze.9870]

On 8/14/2021 at 5:34 PM, Atticus.7194 said:

W0t?

 

You uh are misrepresenting a LOOOT about DH. 

 

1.) It certainly doesn't do "more damage than a full dps weaver" it just has True Shot which can crit for a fair amount but it also has a lot of drawbacks. 3/4 of a second stationary cast time is forever in PvP and WvW and it's visual animation is very noticable, the rest of its damage is avoidable too coming hugely from full duration traps and symbols which you just need to get out of. 

 

He is refering to zerg buils, where core guardian/DH easily tops the dps charts.

 

But it's fitting that Anet's favorite blue class not only is mandatory for boon support, but also have the highest damage potential.

[Lazze.9870]

17 hours ago, HybridZ.1520 said:

 

Why does the Druid lose all accumulated Astral Force instead of just going to 50% of its current Astral Force level (like it does currently when you leave/are forced out of Celestial Avatar)?

 

The real question is why does it lose 50 % to begin with when it's locked behind a resource and a cooldown. One of the many quirks about druid that don't make any sense in the current state of the game. Another one being the minor still being a stacking effect instead of a flat outgoing healing modifier like every other heal specilization have (I get the flavor, but it could easily be static and at full all the time without disrupting any balance).

Edited August 16, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Winterwrenn.9160]

I get scourges needed the nerf, but DH have been getting away with bs for way longer and still no nerf to the golden child class lol.  /shrug 

At the very LEAST they could get rid of the trapper rune or give the final effect a cd.  

[DragoTheWise.7256]

Quote

This has been a problem to balance around; it's not much fun if being very good in specific raid fights means that confusion-heavy specializations like mirage aren't up to par elsewhere.

 

I kinda don't agree with the confusion changes. In regards to raids, it will be worse on the fights that was really good to bring for confusion and not really change fights where you wouldn't bring confusion focused damage.  It will be an overall nerf and a insignificant buff on the slower attacking bosses.This change won't radically make folks want to bring mirage on something more power focused like CA or low attack bosses. IMO, it was nice to have it a bit more specialized for these fights allowing comps to be optimized but other teams could decide to still use other classes especially since torment is so potent now. 

We are returning back to 2015 when HoT came about and the updated condi changes where implemented. Confusion had both a trigger and a ticking damage. 2018 is when things were moved to where we are now. I'm just a little worried that we are normalizing this condition to just be average and lose its uniqueness.

I hope there is more of a reason than just open world issues. I suppose it could be a change to head off combo field updates too.

Hopefully, my worries will be proven wrong and when the numbers shake out, it'll still be OK.

 

[Milosz.5938]

ANET seems to treat the Elementalists as if they were ignorants. Sorry, but this is my impression, because what to think about such a "buff". We are your customers also, your players.  Elemntalists don't need to be an OP gods but please try to respect us more. Thank you. 

By the way, this 'barrier' extra buff is -+ 80 each 9 secunds if I'm correct... this is... this is a lack of respect for me.

Better not to change anything for the Elementalists anymore than to write something like this.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Milosz.5938

[Yakuzai.6593]

Very nice job!! After so loong you seriously take steps to nerf scourge. Althogh the first attempts were babysteps, i think this change will have major impact on the pvp field 😄

Just recently i was fighting vs scourges and it look so stupid how i have to rip apart my kitten to land hits, make rotations, to dodge while the scourge is simply just staying on a node, not moving at all, getting like a barrier thats 50% of his health bar paired with tons of boons .... wtf 

Im looking so forward for todays afternoon pvp!! 😄

[Stavros.8249]

Will the changes to confusion raise the benchmarks for mirage or conditions chrono? And how much? 

[Acelidon.1358]

So a 'balance patch' which ignores traits & skills for 3 entire classes (ranger, warrior, and thief) and gives scrapper even more boons? is this an out-of-season april fools joke?

[nthmetal.9652]

Maybe the balance patch would be received a bit better if:

 

1. we would get an intention stated in the first place. The current patch seems to focus PvE and address some PvP issues. It does not seem targeted at WvW at all (though there might be "casualties" due to changes elsewhere). Just give us an overall idea what is being tried to achieve and why. For the profession-specific changes this is. So thanks for that, good work here. We might disagree on the changes or even the target, but we at least know why you're doing things.
2. we would get a perspective on the things not touched. If thief, for example simply isn't mentioned, because you think all is fine here, that will surely raise some voices, but at least we know it's intentional. If we see no changes to WvW, that's fine, too, if we could at least know when a balance change focused here is planned again.

Edited August 17, 2021 by nthmetal.9652