Living World Season 2 and 3 need to be baseline for Steam release.

When I purchased the expansion it came with HoT. To my dismay I learned that my purchase didn't include any of the Living World stuff that happened between both expansions, I felt like I was scammed honestly.

Please add Season 2 and 3 before the Steam release. Players will obviously want to buy the expansion, but most of them will not realize that they will be buying a movie with the middle act cut off.

So please Anet, fix this, this living world thing its one of the worst telegraphed product puzzles in all MMORPG history.

I am okay if you are still required to buy Season 4 and 5. But season 3 needs to be baseline so players can play the entire HoT-PoF storyline uninterrupted.

Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

New players wont have enough gold to cover all that by that time.

@aaron.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

Luckily they can purchase gems with money. Many games have DLCs that are not included in the expansions. Some of them, such as ESO, offer subscriptions for access to this content but Anet has not indicated any intention to go that direction.

As I said on the subreddit:

Right now, I think the most jarring thing is that when you buy HoT/PoF you expect you can play: Core game --> HoT --> PoF. However, in truth there are obvious gaps in between, which you need to pay extra for. However, you don't realize that until you're there (unless someone tells you first).

This can be fixed in one simple way: Buying an expansion includes all the LS up to that point. That means buying PoF right now would get you (core game,) LWS2, HoT, LWS3, PoF. You play through all of that content, without any annoying gaps you need to unexpectedly pay extra for (let's forget about LWS1 for a moment...).

After you're done with all of that (including the expansions you paid for), you can pay the gems to continue with LWS4 and Icebrood Saga. I think this is a fair deal for > both players and Arenanet. It will probably help starting player retention, because the additional paywall is placed near the end, instead of right after the core game (LWS2). It might also not feel that bad, because at that point they've been getting popups in-game about unlocking episodes for free a few times.

This seems quite obvious to me, and I honestly doubt Arenanet earn enough from LS sales to make up for the loss in player retention they have right now.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

Do those games also have story DLCs that are vital to understanding what's going on in the major expansions, while those major expansions pretend they contain the entire story? Remember, the experience of a f2p player is like this: Finish core game (or during the leveling)--> I enjoyed that, let's buy the expansion --> LS1 isn't available anymore? Guess I'll do the story after that. --> I need to pay again to continue my story? (LS2) Didn't I just buy the expansion? --> If they still continue, repeat again after HoT (LS3)

People who just buy the expansions now get served a horrific mess of a story, right?

Hard to believe some people defend this.

If the game wasn't story driven there would be no problem, but again, as I said... you are buying a movie and then you are told the middle act is sold separately.

@Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:As I said on the subreddit:

Right now, I think the most jarring thing is that when you buy HoT/PoF you expect you can play: Core game --> HoT --> PoF. However, in truth there are obvious gaps in between, which you need to pay extra for. However, you don't realize that until you're there (unless someone tells you first).

This can be fixed in one simple way:

Buying an expansion includes all the LS up to that point

. That means buying PoF right now would get you (core game,) LWS2, HoT, LWS3, PoF. You play through all of that content, without any annoying gaps you need to unexpectedly pay extra for (let's forget about LWS1 for a moment...).

After you're done with all of that (including the expansions you paid for), you can pay the gems to continue with LWS4 and Icebrood Saga. I think this is a fair deal for > both players and Arenanet. It will probably help starting player retention, because the additional paywall is placed near the end, instead of right after the core game (LWS2). It might also not feel that bad, because at that point they've been getting popups in-game about unlocking episodes for free a few times.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

Yes. The DLCs for ESO are a part of the story arcs introduced, or leading up to, the story in the expansions.

The living world seasons are in themselves each an expansion worth of content minus the features. Well maybe not necessarily LS2 since it’s not restricted to those that have the episodes unlocked although you’d technically only need at least two based on how the maps were created.

The only thing Anet needs to do is better describe exactly what a season is in a way that brand new players would understand and provide them a way to purchase each as they are purchasing the expansions. I noticed some seasons were missing.

@aaron.7850 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

If they are good at marketing they'll produce a $60+ steam "complete pack" with HOT+POF and the LS2/LS3/LS4/IBS eventually before the expansion launches just to have an even newer release date on steam. The "free to play" is just a hook to get people started.Core = free nowH.O.T+P.O.F. = $30 (official website price right now) --- this used to be $30 additional since they didn't give H.O.T. out before August 30, 2019(Currently $16-18 from DLgamer , an official retailer https://www.dlgamer.com/us/games/buy-guild-wars-2-path-of-fire-43807 , https://www.dlgamer.com/eu/games/buy-guild-wars-2-path-of-fire-43768 )LS2 : 1280 gems ($16) , highest discount has been 40% which is $9.60LS3 : 960 gems ($12) , highest discount has been 30% which is $8.40LS4 : 960 gems ($12) , highest discount has been 30% which is ~$8.40IBS: ?

Story is important to me so I've had issues with this as well for a long time despite it not directly effecting me as a long time player.

Personally i'd rather see living world bundled into expansions rather than expansions bundled together as they currently are.

@Infusion.7149 said:If they are good at marketing

Do we still have that hope?

Joking aside, a bundle would be good, but only if they remove all suggestion of buying PoF meaning you get the full game.

It's annoying, but playing the story out of order is no big deal for this game either I have found.

@aaron.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

New players won't need to open every chapter at the same time. They can purchase them as they acquire gold to convert to gems.

@Teratus.2859 said:Story is important to me so I've had issues with this as well for a long time despite it not directly effecting me as a long time player.

Personally i'd rather see living world bundled into expansions rather than expansions bundled together as they currently are.

Yeah, I only had to buy maybe 3 LS2 episodes that I missed when I started playing. So it never affected me that much.

But making older living story seasons more accessible would definitely help.

I would not be opposed to completed living story seasons that lead up to the expansions coming with the expansions.

Or they could include unlocking previous living story with pre-orders for the upcoming expansion.

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

The point of this thread, my dear, is to give new players a more welcoming experience.

Many new and returning players have found the current system very cumbersome and confusing. Anet needs to change this.

@Infusion.7149 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

well the wiki does say the head of global marketing left arenanet on march 2020: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mike_Silbowitz

whoever is in charge now is probably also the reason why gw2 went to steam (basically some shifts in the marketing direction). so let's wait and see what kind of packages the steam version is going to come with. hopefully they do create a "Complete Pack" for all seasons 2 to 4 and both expansions (ibs isn't complete yet come the november launch so i doubt it could be included initially, eventually maybe -- if this kind of package deal happens at all)

Or introduce a pseudo sub like eso does for lw, it works just as well and doesnt devalue the lw content so substantially.

I don't think they should just make it free since that's the whole system living world seasons are built around, if you're not around when they release you have to buy them. If they get rid of that system then they're going to need to look into other ways to regain that revenue.

I think the best option instead would be to offer a deluxe bundle with all expansions and seasons at a reduced cost.

@aaron.7850 said:When I purchased the expansion it came with HoT. To my dismay I learned that my purchase didn't include any of the Living World stuff that happened between both expansions, I felt like I was scammed honestly.

Please add Season 2 and 3 before the Steam release. Players will obviously want to buy the expansion, but most of them will not realize that they will be buying a movie with the middle act cut off.

So please Anet, fix this, this living world thing its one of the worst telegraphed product puzzles in all MMORPG history.

I am okay if you are still required to buy Season 4 and 5. But season 3 needs to be baseline so players can play the entire HoT-PoF storyline uninterrupted.

Living World should be free for everyone, or for no one.

Simple as that.

@"Solanum.6983" said:I don't think they should just make it free since that's the whole system living world seasons are built around, if you're not around when they release you have to buy them. If they get rid of that system then they're going to need to look into other ways to regain that revenue.

It's a silly system that makes it a lot harder to introduce new people to the game. "You can try it for free and then just buy this one package to get the full experience" is so much cleaner than "You can try it for free, then buy this one package to really play the game, but when you do that get the 'deluxe' one with extra gems so you can spend them on these little episodes."

As an enticement to keep playing, it fails pretty bad, because if you ever "slip" it just feels punitive. And I think most lapsed players aren't going to log into a game once a month just to try to save like $2 on some content they may never play anyway. (But if when you do come back, those $2 have compounded annoyingly over time.)

And it's very bad for the game's marketing because a fan can't tweet "Hey, this game I love is 50% off right now, try it for free and buy it if you like it!" without having to add a bunch of annoying caveats about how you will also need to do all these extra microtransactions to actually play the game's main story in order. Like, this is literally why I post stuff I do in the game on social media but don't usually hype it to other people -- explaining how to actually purchase the entire playable game is both tedious and uninspiring. Going on about how you have to buy this and that makes me feel like a pyramid-scheme salesman, so I don't bother.

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:Story is important to me so I've had issues with this as well for a long time despite it not directly effecting me as a long time player.

Personally i'd rather see living world bundled into expansions rather than expansions bundled together as they currently are.

How does it make any sense to include anything but IBS (LWS5/ entire Ice Brood Saga) with preorder for the next expansion?LS2/LS3 all were before that. LS4 arguably had a huge time lapse before the expansion was even announced.

The most logical way for them to handle it is a complete pack with core+HOT+POF and all LS episodes up to the expansion (End of Dragons / EOD / EoD or whatever abbreviation). It could even be prorated if there's a digital version such that if you own HOT+POF it cuts the cost. The technology is already there for living story episodes.

In the past there was "Game of the Year" or Platinum editions for GW1. However GW2 is uncertain to be game of the year when the expansion launches. It is more likely a ___ million accounts edition when a large milestone is reached or "Complete Collection" when it is more or less End of Life and no further major developments are made.

See :

• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars:_The_Complete_Collection ( https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/make-history-with-the-guild-wars-complete-collection/ )
• (steam only has Trilogy https://store.steampowered.com/app/29570/Guild_Wars_Trilogy/ )
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions:_Platinum_Edition
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars:_Game_of_the_Year_Edition (on steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/29540/Guild_Wars_Game_of_the_Year_Edition/ )
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/1_Million_Edition_Upgrade

@"Astyrah.4015" said:well the wiki does say the head of global marketing left arenanet on march 2020: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mike_Silbowitz

whoever is in charge now is probably also the reason why gw2 went to steam (basically some shifts in the marketing direction). so let's wait and see what kind of packages the steam version is going to come with. hopefully they do create a "Complete Pack" for all seasons 2 to 4 and both expansions (ibs isn't complete yet come the november launch so i doubt it could be included initially, eventually maybe -- if this kind of package deal happens at all)That's sort of tangential to the Steam introduction.The person that left made some really odd decisions such as partnering with Quiznos (semi-dead food chain) and such. Hopefully the new person in charge has more sense to partner with more reasonable outlets and push for other things other than patterned clothing (which doesn't even work for free advertising as nobody knows what those things on the clothing are if there's no GW2 logos) and funko pops. Museum grade art prints (includes lithographs and other such items)? Good. Sculptures and statues as in collector's edition Rytlock? A good idea if the quality exceeds 3d printers' , a plus if there are signatures by the artists. The userbase from GW1 is decidedly going to be roughly a generation older than the crowd playing battle royale games for example so instead of cheap figurines you'd expect a higher level of detail and quality (and by extension, price). On the lower end of the spectrum you're looking at things that don't weigh much and aren't fragile (cheap to ship) such as plushies , keychains/pins, apparel, drawstring bags , posters, and keychains. Plus if they want to be trendy, include face masks in that category of cheap to ship.

For example, one of the major parts of the RPG and Living story players' experience in GW2 are vistas. What if you could pick a vista or even a specific angle and have an art print of it? It could be done via screenshot and printing , but maybe someone wants a high quality signed copy from the artist. As audio assets are typically external to the dev team that isn't as feasible for a soundtrack and such.

Ultimately any sort of merchandise has to contend with the ease of 3d printing and making any sort of apparel , drinkware, or bag with any design you choose. Indeed, Unity dev tools have a built in extension for shopify : https://www.shopify.com/custom-storefront-toolsI've seen some users wish they had a way to print their character without opting for 3d printing, but for main non-player characters there could be a much higher quality option. There's definitely more that can be done with the asura, charr, and sylvari intellectual property as opposed to the token human/norn races not to mention quaggans. Of course it doesn't come without a cost: there's a cost to manufacture and warehouse inventory that is unsold (so it is ideal to keep it a low volume or "just in time" or delayed manufacturing affair), plus cost to design (dev time) and create products.

Could even pull an Activision publicity stunt where you price an achievement badge or something at $777K real money with a discount of $776,975 if you have a certain achievement unlocked.

Per the website there's still a partnership with :

• Alienware ( https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/enter-to-win-prizes-from-alienware/ , https://na.alienwarearena.com/forums/board/142/guild-wars-2 , https://mobile.twitter.com/Alienware/status/1121081372452499459)
• Logitech --- it's been rather quiet from Logitech
• Nvidia ---- there's not much they can leverage here unless there's a giveaway of HOT/POF or older living story with new GPUs or something and that's unlikely
• Steelseries ( https://steelseries.com/blog/how-play-guild-wars-2-icebrood-saga-253 )

Origin has had a contest recently: https://www.originpc.com/landing/2020/guild-wars-giveaway/

Maybe a partnership with twitch for the competitive scene would help a bit , I'm not too sure about that because the esports thing is sort of a meme now.

Let’s spin this around for veterans like myself. I have been around since the start, bought original GW 2 for about $50, and then heart of thorns for $40 and path of fire for $40, so you’re lookin at $130 spent on the base game plus expansions. I receive all LW episodes for free. Look at now, free base game, and you can get path of fire and heart of thorns for $30. For someone to spend $30 to buy the game if they like it, then can spend however much money is required to buy the living world seasons, as I still spent more money on the base game and expansions than they have to pay now. Now I don’t know if the pricing of seasons reduce over time or what, but they do go on sale from time to time.With that said, I feel Arenanet could educate people a little more about the LW, however. Perhaps they show some ingame purchases you can make when you are buying GW2, like extra storage, LW, and explain what LW is. That it is not required but adds to the overall story experience and is sold separate. Also educate that future LW episodes are free as long as you sign in. If you are already playing for free though, can you not see gem store and what purchases you can make? So in a way you can see the living world past episodes are for purchase before you even buy the game? I don’t know if the free version shows this, but if it did it could help too.

I picked up heart of thorns when it went on sale, after not playing the game for years. By the time I was playing, I was missing all of LS2 and half of LS3. Ended up spending real money to pick both of them up. And here's the part where most people go "Well if I had to pay for it, other people should to." But it's such a garbage mentality. Being a veteran, and either getting it for free when it comes out, or buying it because you weren't around when it did, doesn't give you some bizarre authority to want everyone else to not be allowed to enjoy the same game. It's WoW all over again when they reduced the price of mounts from the base game and everyone had this "but if I had to suffer for it, everyone else should." Just because it's a part of the game now, doesn't make it a good thing.

It was said that they would need to find a way to make up "lost revenue" if living seasons became free, but it already IS lost revenue because people won't buy expansions knowing that they don't get the entire story when they do. Which means they also don't play the game, so they don't spend money on either the expansions, or the stuff in the market that would also make them money. There is loads of stuff there that I see people flaunting constantly, so you can't say that it isn't making them money.

I think they have an opportunity to pull in hesitant buyers if they were like "Preorder the new expansion, and all previous Living Season content comes with it". Still has a price tag if you don't log on during the event, makes every expansion a chance to catch up, but you still want to actively participate because otherwise you end up waiting until the next expansion to get all of the story, unless you are impatient and want to pay for it. Preorder incentives are a big deal; you get that impulse buy that might otherwise become an on sale purchase. Even on sale the people I show the game to mostly dismiss it because they hate the idea that story content that was free to the player base has a price tag. They won't support the game because of it.

I agree with the original post (obviously), as this is a perfect time to get a large amount of publicity (and sales) by bringing in NEW players.

I left the game around Heart of Thorns (and came back this year), so I had to pay for most of the Seasons content. I would not mind if it became free for new players, any more than I would feel bad that a $50 product I bought five years ago has gone on sale for $20 now.

Worst case, Anet could just send out some "veteran perks" to existing players.

@aaron.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Or, perhaps, new players can purchase LW2/3 with gems once they get to that point in the story.

No, the point of your thread is that you think LS should be included in purchase of HoT. Whether that is a more 'welcoming' experience to new players is highly debatable. There isn't actually ANY reason for a new player to NOT to pay for LS at this point, JUST like the expansions. In no way is there an expectation that this content is not to be paid for and anyone that felt scammed should lower their entitlement down a notch or two.

Ehh the system is built around using LW to encourage occasional players to log in now and then to snag the story, hopefully taking a look in the gem shop. That does not work for old content. It feels like Anet just does not know or care what happens here; it would not be surprising if marketing is siloed away with no one talking to each other. New player entitlement is a given; it matters if this scheme drives them away, whether we vets like it or not.