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What next elite spec must have to be worth the purchase... - [Merged]

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  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Before talking about a new spec, ranger needs the class fixed so the actual specs are fun to play.
    To be adding more over a bad and broken foundation doesn't work as we already seen with the last two specs. Same dilemma as with the pets, before asking for more pets i would ask to fix the pets we already have.

    This is the problem with all core professions, the foundations weren't ready for elite specializations, and we're carrying those problems over without fixing them properly. In the case of ranger, they need to redesign the pet mechanic once and for all. Give more control over the pets, improve the AI, etc.

    If it were on my hands, I would integrate pet skills into weapon skills. Kinda like how the mesmer controls illusions through weapons, and how the guardian summons symbols using weapons as well. It's pointless for a beastmaster archetype not to factor his companions as part of its direct combat.

    @The Boz.2038 said:
    Beastmaster. No pet swap; both pets active at same time. Land use spear as weapon, medium or melee range skills. Trainings as new skill types; hybridizations of stances and preparations that affect your pets only, and you through some traits. Heavy use of the attack of opportunity mechanic. Medium mobility, but lots of mobility control, chase and peel. Spirit Of The Pack elite calls two additional spirit copies of each of your pets for a short time.

    I think this is the most likely approach we'll see.

    Alternatively, some kind of "take manual control of the pet" mechanic (this is what soulbeast should have been).

  • I really hope it's going to be pet focused specialization. There are already 2 elite specs and I'm still playing core ranger which is kind of sad...

    Also it would be nice if Anet would use this opportunity to ballance pets to be more on equal footing. I'd like to be able to choose favorite animal without feeling bad for doing something inefficient. It might sound unimportant but for me it was reason to take a break from the game. I don't want to feel bad about my decision. It's simple as that.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @AkantorCZ.8952 said:
    I really hope it's going to be pet focused specialization. There are already 2 elite specs and I'm still playing core ranger which is kind of sad...

    Also it would be nice if Anet would use this opportunity to ballance pets to be more on equal footing. I'd like to be able to choose favorite animal without feeling bad for doing something inefficient. It might sound unimportant but for me it was reason to take a break from the game. I don't want to feel bad about my decision. It's simple as that.

    Necro minions which are utility are far better than non-meta pets..it's that bad, most of them have absurd cast time for abysmal levels of dmg...it's like beta weekend pre-release status levels of dmg and cast time, it would require a truck load of buffs to convince rangers in dropping meta pets (smokescale-gazelle-bristleback-birds-tiger-jacaranda) for the rest and with Anet track record I wouldn't bet on that...it's why people wishing for a pet specialization would end up seeing a garbage tier elite...because the pet mechanic is garbage and only 6-7 pets out of 50 are worth using in any competitive setting

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    Necro minions which are utility are far better than non-meta pets..it's that bad, most of them have absurd cast time for abysmal levels of dmg...it's like beta weekend pre-release status levels of dmg and cast time, it would require a truck load of buffs to convince rangers in dropping meta pets (smokescale-gazelle-bristleback-birds-tiger-jacaranda) for the rest and with Anet track record I wouldn't bet on that...it's why people wishing for a pet specialization would end up seeing a garbage tier elite...because the pet mechanic is garbage and only 6-7 pets out of 50 are worth using in any competitive setting

    This is really the fundamental problem with asking for pet-centered specs, you nailed it perfectly. The underlying pet mechanic is so shoddy and the vast majority of pets are so worthless, a pet-focused elite is almost guaranteed to fail. The only way to not fail is if ANet magically works up the willpower to revamp the entire pet system, something they've refused to do for 8 years. And honestly, I don't blame them. It's probably a mess, and they'd likely have to homogenize all the pets to some degree to make them competitive with each other. Also, even when you can avoid 100% of many pets attacks just by walking in a circle, players STILL complain about getting murdered by pets in spvp. Anything that makes pets more useful will be met with loud cries and swift nerfs.

    I have zero optimism for a pet-focused elite. Just give all the GW1 weirdos the "bunny thumper" spec so I can stop hearing about it.

  • I strongly disagree with the stance "It's pointless to ballance ranger pets because it takes too much effort." There was already attempt to improve few ranger pets 2 years ago. It wasn't perfect but it was step forward and improved animation timing actually made a huge difference. It doesn't have to be solved on one go. But I would really appreciate continuos development effort to improve ranger core mechanic because it's important to me and also the reason why I choose to play ranger in the first place. No excuses.

    The worst thing they can do from my perspective is to continue with the trend to intoduce new best in slot pet with every expansion.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AkantorCZ.8952 said:
    I strongly disagree with the stance "It's pointless to ballance ranger pets because it takes too much effort." There was already attempt to improve few ranger pets 2 years ago. It wasn't perfect but it was step forward and improved animation timing actually made a huge difference. It doesn't have to be solved on one go. But I would really appreciate continuos development effort to improve ranger core mechanic because it's important to me and also the reason why I choose to play ranger in the first place. No excuses.

    The worst thing they can do from my perspective is to continue with the trend to intoduce new best in slot pet with every expansion.

    It's far easier to introduce new pets in accordance with new content than balancing older pets to be viable with 8 years worth of content

    It's easier for the devs and better for the players who otherwise would have to wait and hope for several patches across years before anything worth using appears.

    We should count our lucky stars, without smokescale and gazelle , half the current ranger population would not be here

    What you ask as an elite was already present in the past with the Birds beastmaster which was consequentially nerfed out of existence literally...with nerfs to birds , axe and GS

    A "Beastmaster" elite would be massacred by nerfs and knowing Anet they would start from core....At least 2-3 patches then finally nerf the elite...few months later they would nerf the pets some more for good measure

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AkantorCZ.8952 said:
    I strongly disagree with the stance "It's pointless to ballance ranger pets because it takes too much effort." There was already attempt to improve few ranger pets 2 years ago. It wasn't perfect but it was step forward and improved animation timing actually made a huge difference. It doesn't have to be solved on one go. But I would really appreciate continuos development effort to improve ranger core mechanic because it's important to me and also the reason why I choose to play ranger in the first place. No excuses.

    The worst thing they can do from my perspective is to continue with the trend to intoduce new best in slot pet with every expansion.

    But...one thing they could do is to add an elite which will yes have access to multiple pets at the same time but...the pets would turn to spirit form , they take no dmg but regular F2 is removed and replaced with a 1200 range ground target AoE of different type based on pet family

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:
    It's far easier to introduce new pets in accordance with new content than balancing older pets to be viable with 8 years worth of content

    It's easier for the devs and better for the players who otherwise would have to wait and hope for several patches across years before anything worth using appears.

    We should count our lucky stars, without smokescale and gazelle , half the current ranger population would not be here

    What you ask as an elite was already present in the past with the Birds beastmaster which was consequentially nerfed out of existence literally...with nerfs to birds , axe and GS

    A "Beastmaster" elite would be massacred by nerfs and knowing Anet they would start from core....At least 2-3 patches then finally nerf the elite...few months later they would nerf the pets some more for good measure

    All I want is a proper solution to the problem. Ignoring or patching problem took us where we are now. No thanks. There are other games to spend time on.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Johnny.1634 said:
    Um what? It NEEDS TO BE PET RELIANT. You understand pets are our class mechanic right? We don't have a single Elite spec that does anything with our pet, its pretty pathetic.
    Druid when released didn't have a single skill or trait that interacted with your pet what so ever. And Soulbeast was made for the "I hate my pet" crybabies....if you don't like pets don't play ranger, simple as that.

    Guild Wars 1 had amazing player and pet synergy, with pet attack skills that basically let you use double the skills other players could at the same time, and majority of pet based builds let your pet provide you with ridiculous amounts of heals and energy regen.
    Sadly with GW2, majority of pets are bugged and ANet has done a pretty awful job at giving Rangers any synergy with their class mechanic. Hopefully this new spec will finally see us actually using our pet.

    This here.
    Druid and soulbeast are both reducing your reliance from pets. Druid by reducing the stats of your pet and soulbeast by disabling you to switch pets and giving you the ability to trade your pet for new skills and stat boni.

    Having the third elite spec focusing on pets and increasing their efficiency is the most logical step in my opinion. A spec for people who want to play with pets and actually want a powerful pet at their side. And that playstyle seems to be fairly popular, considering how many people are requesting the return of the famous "bunny thumper".

    This here. Soulbeast is a DPS spec, Druid a Support spec, thus a Bruiser is needed.

    Heavy CC from a Hammer and strong dps from the pet would work. I bet the spec will even have life steal when you CC someone or condi transfer when you CC them.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AkantorCZ.8952 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    It's far easier to introduce new pets in accordance with new content than balancing older pets to be viable with 8 years worth of content

    It's easier for the devs and better for the players who otherwise would have to wait and hope for several patches across years before anything worth using appears.

    We should count our lucky stars, without smokescale and gazelle , half the current ranger population would not be here

    What you ask as an elite was already present in the past with the Birds beastmaster which was consequentially nerfed out of existence literally...with nerfs to birds , axe and GS

    A "Beastmaster" elite would be massacred by nerfs and knowing Anet they would start from core....At least 2-3 patches then finally nerf the elite...few months later they would nerf the pets some more for good measure

    All I want is a proper solution to the problem. Ignoring or patching problem took us where we are now. No thanks. There are other games to spend time on.

    There is no practical solution because of the inclination of this playerbase to hate anything AI related working even remotely good.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Johnny.1634 said:
    Um what? It NEEDS TO BE PET RELIANT. You understand pets are our class mechanic right? We don't have a single Elite spec that does anything with our pet, its pretty pathetic.
    Druid when released didn't have a single skill or trait that interacted with your pet what so ever. And Soulbeast was made for the "I hate my pet" crybabies....if you don't like pets don't play ranger, simple as that.

    Guild Wars 1 had amazing player and pet synergy, with pet attack skills that basically let you use double the skills other players could at the same time, and majority of pet based builds let your pet provide you with ridiculous amounts of heals and energy regen.
    Sadly with GW2, majority of pets are bugged and ANet has done a pretty awful job at giving Rangers any synergy with their class mechanic. Hopefully this new spec will finally see us actually using our pet.

    This here.
    Druid and soulbeast are both reducing your reliance from pets. Druid by reducing the stats of your pet and soulbeast by disabling you to switch pets and giving you the ability to trade your pet for new skills and stat boni.

    Having the third elite spec focusing on pets and increasing their efficiency is the most logical step in my opinion. A spec for people who want to play with pets and actually want a powerful pet at their side. And that playstyle seems to be fairly popular, considering how many people are requesting the return of the famous "bunny thumper".

    This here. Soulbeast is a DPS spec, Druid a Support spec, thus a Bruiser is needed.

    Heavy CC from a Hammer and strong dps from the pet would work. I bet the spec will even have life steal when you CC someone or condi transfer when you CC them.

    A bruiser is not needed at all on ranger! Soulbeast can already make for an excellent bruiser in WvW especially and just viable in PvP where on the other hand we can use core ranger as a very viable bruiser for side noding. You need to understand 2 things : 1) A bruiser playstyle requires sustain by default an adding additional sustain on ranger currently without upping the skill level requirement would end up creating a super broken spec and Anet would end up nerfing core ranger to hell to balance new e-spec and 2) Some people enjoy play just core ranger or druid or just soulbeast...or all of them ; any future e-spec must be balanced around the previous three...not the other way around.

    How can you propose to add a Bruiser to ranger when I can still play as boonbeast ( watered down but still viable sort of ) or tanky core ranger or bunker druid with staff mobility? Any further sustain addition to support a bruiser playstyle would destroy the class delicate balance that's what worry me the most, I want to keep the current balance of ranger as much as possible...yes I know already that the new elite will bring inevitably more nerfs to core ranger that how Anet works , we don't need an elite which would invite even more nerfs at this point

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    A bruiser is not needed at all on ranger! Soulbeast can already make for an excellent bruiser in WvW especially and just viable in PvP where on the other hand we can use core ranger as a very viable bruiser for side noding. You need to understand 2 things : 1) A bruiser playstyle requires sustain by default an adding additional sustain on ranger currently without upping the skill level requirement would end up creating a super broken spec and Anet would end up nerfing core ranger to hell to balance new e-spec and 2) Some people enjoy play just core ranger or druid or just soulbeast...or all of them ; any future e-spec must be balanced around the previous three...not the other way around.

    How can you propose to add a Bruiser to ranger when I can still play as boonbeast ( watered down but still viable sort of ) or tanky core ranger or bunker druid with staff mobility? Any further sustain addition to support a bruiser playstyle would destroy the class delicate balance that's what worry me the most, I want to keep the current balance of ranger as much as possible...yes I know already that the new elite will bring inevitably more nerfs to core ranger that how Anet works , we don't need an elite which would invite even more nerfs at this point

    What else do you want the next ranger elite spec to do then?

    It seems like the most logical step. Soulbeast added alot of damage to ranger, so they can reliably fill the dps role for a team (both condi and power dps btw).
    Druid gave ranger one of the best support elite specs in the game, which is highly requested in PvE end game as a healer.

    So far, Anet has created these 3 subtypes of elite specs: dps, support, bruiser
    Bruiser is the one missing for ranger here. If you want to play soulbeast as a bruiser, that's fine, just do so. But that doesn't mean that ranger should never get a real bruiser elite spec, just like warrior, engineer and thief already got one.

    Just like I also hope to get a proper support elite spec for my engineer, something that lets me compete with druid and firebrand for the healer slot in end game content....

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It really depends on the balance of other ranger specs in the future, anything taken from them should then be given to the new spec.

    I feel like people are asking for a melee oriented spec more focused on staying on the target rather than trying to keep it at distance

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"