Why is Living World such a flop? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why is Living World such a flop?

Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 21, 2020 in Living World

Like in general the content just doesn't pull people in, like it lacks hype and I just don't get why. I finally got around to doing the Elegy Armor collection a month or so ago and I feel like that was one of my most powerful story experiences ever in an MMO. I understand that most LW episodes aren't Jahai "A star to guide us" level awesome, but I feel like if the quality is there, there should be a way to pull more people in.

Comments

  • Seven Star Stalker.1740Seven Star Stalker.1740 Member ✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    I don't know if that's necesaarily true though. Like if you look at WoW for example there's undoubtedly a simila4 pattern where patch/raid releases aren't nearly as hype as an expansion there either. I think that's a lot more a case of general consequence related to the dynamic between expansions and non expansions rather than a flaw of gw2. Do also keep in mind that while I lack numbers I also feel gw2 is quantifiably not as expansive as say ff14 and WoW as far ad their communities go, so hype always ends up fundamentally smaller and takes more effort to build

    Edit: Various spelling and punctuation.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The issue is players move onto newer more rewarding content. The game is so big now that older maps suffer and players won’t return to content where there is a lot of group content which gives no real return for their play.

    When they reverted dailies to one map a day per season, it really hurt the maps imo

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Tuco.2419Tuco.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    A big problem with the living stories and really the plot of GW2 is how whiny and depressing many of the characters are. It's hard to enjoy the plot when you just want everyone to lighten up a bit.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Edit : As it happens, I mis-remembered that : disregard !

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • @kharmin.7683 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Then they decided to announce maintenance mode when they should have been working on another expansion all along.

    When was maintenance mode announced?

    My choice of words was a criticism of their decision not to work on another expansion (i.e. their failure to invest in this game's future). Was that not clear in the context of my statement? Or do you really want to engage in an argument over the strict definition of "maintenance mode"? I know it's a popular subject and all. I'm just not sure it would be productive.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    I have a hard time pinpointing it exactly, but it was part of their "Giving you expansion level content" speech, they tried to portray it as very different from Living World, hence why they didn't reprise the naming theme of Living World. It dates back to icebrood saga announcement

    Edit : As it happens, I mis-remembered that : disregard !

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In my opinion is that everything is extremely predictable. Very few twists to the story line that keeps you on the edge of your seat wanting more. As for jaw dropping moments there have not been many. I play the content just to get it behind me. I get the mastery back to max and move on.

    For me lately is how the personal story / living world requires other people. Map meta or Instanced content you are always reliant on others. I personally go to the story when I want to have some alone time in the game. But recently its been opposite of what I would like to see. Ever since the release of Icebrood Saga I have found it hard to play this content. To much grind. There is an absence of content called creating zone specific weapons that anet seems to believe people want to do? Sure some people like this stuff but I would wager that most people don't bother with crafting all of them.

    The illusion of free will. Take Drizzlewood Coast for example. I feel like a cat reacting to a laser pointer. Go here no no no Go here no Go here. I believe anet is so focused on trying to create a new feel that it forgets what it has done well in the past. Maybe we could have better quality of updates if they were not trying to recreate the wheel all the time.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    I have a hard time pinpointing it exactly, but it was part of their "Giving you expansion level content" speech, they tried to portray it as very different from Living World, hence why they didn't reprise the naming theme of Living World. It dates back to icebrood saga announcement

    You mean this announcement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement?

    Where Mike Z says things like:

    • "I speak for the entire team on Guild Wars 2 when I say that we are pumped to finally show you and unveil the next chapter of Living World" and
    • "Well, we're here to pull back the curtain on the continued commitment we have for Guild Wars 2 and the next chapter of Living Story. So without further ado, I want to introduce you to the new season."

    Doesn't sound like IBS isn't LW to me. Sounds like someone is misinterpreting what Anet said, once again, and now spreading misinformation.

    You're probably right about misinterpreting, however, spreading misinformation was never my intent. That's genuinely how I remembered it, which if it means anything just hints at a fault of marketing to me. But that is subjective.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    I have a hard time pinpointing it exactly, but it was part of their "Giving you expansion level content" speech, they tried to portray it as very different from Living World, hence why they didn't reprise the naming theme of Living World. It dates back to icebrood saga announcement

    You mean this announcement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement?

    Where Mike Z says things like:

    • "I speak for the entire team on Guild Wars 2 when I say that we are pumped to finally show you and unveil the next chapter of Living World" and
    • "Well, we're here to pull back the curtain on the continued commitment we have for Guild Wars 2 and the next chapter of Living Story. So without further ado, I want to introduce you to the new season."

    Doesn't sound like IBS isn't LW to me. Sounds like someone is misinterpreting what Anet said, once again, and now spreading misinformation.

    You're probably right about misinterpreting, however, spreading misinformation was never my intent. That's genuinely how I remembered it, which if it means anything just hints at a fault of marketing to me. But that is subjective.

    It's fine. Just make sure to fact-check next time before claiming someone else made a statement. Even if not intended, wrong "truths" can spread that way.
    I'm not sure if marketing can actually do something about people not listening correctly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    I have a hard time pinpointing it exactly, but it was part of their "Giving you expansion level content" speech, they tried to portray it as very different from Living World, hence why they didn't reprise the naming theme of Living World. It dates back to icebrood saga announcement

    You mean this announcement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement?

    Where Mike Z says things like:

    • "I speak for the entire team on Guild Wars 2 when I say that we are pumped to finally show you and unveil the next chapter of Living World" and
    • "Well, we're here to pull back the curtain on the continued commitment we have for Guild Wars 2 and the next chapter of Living Story. So without further ado, I want to introduce you to the new season."

    Doesn't sound like IBS isn't LW to me. Sounds like someone is misinterpreting what Anet said, once again, and now spreading misinformation.

    You're probably right about misinterpreting, however, spreading misinformation was never my intent. That's genuinely how I remembered it, which if it means anything just hints at a fault of marketing to me. But that is subjective.

    It's fine. Just make sure to fact-check next time before claiming someone else made a statement. Even if not intended, wrong "truths" can spread that way.
    I'm not sure if marketing can actually do something about people not listening correctly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    It's weird though, I wonder where I picked that up. I generally only have a wild imagination when sleep deprived. Regardless, I stand corrected

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Arguably, and this is coming from the company itself : Icebrood Saga is -not- Living World. So there is some sort of consolation in that ?

    Got any source on that? Afaik Anet has always seen IBS as part of the LW.

    I have a hard time pinpointing it exactly, but it was part of their "Giving you expansion level content" speech, they tried to portray it as very different from Living World, hence why they didn't reprise the naming theme of Living World. It dates back to icebrood saga announcement

    You mean this announcement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement?

    Where Mike Z says things like:

    • "I speak for the entire team on Guild Wars 2 when I say that we are pumped to finally show you and unveil the next chapter of Living World" and
    • "Well, we're here to pull back the curtain on the continued commitment we have for Guild Wars 2 and the next chapter of Living Story. So without further ado, I want to introduce you to the new season."

    Doesn't sound like IBS isn't LW to me. Sounds like someone is misinterpreting what Anet said, once again, and now spreading misinformation.

    You're probably right about misinterpreting, however, spreading misinformation was never my intent. That's genuinely how I remembered it, which if it means anything just hints at a fault of marketing to me. But that is subjective.

    It's fine. Just make sure to fact-check next time before claiming someone else made a statement. Even if not intended, wrong "truths" can spread that way.
    I'm not sure if marketing can actually do something about people not listening correctly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    It's weird though, I wonder where I picked that up. I generally only have a wild imagination when sleep deprived. Regardless, I stand corrected

    The gaming magazines mislabelled the season after the initial revaal of IBS including in certain interviews. That somehow entered the comunity consciousness regardless of the fact it never came from Anet directly. All pve content - festivals, expacs, side stories are Living World and that hasn't ever changed despite varied focus

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @kharmin.7683 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Then they decided to announce maintenance mode when they should have been working on another expansion all along.

    When was maintenance mode announced?

    My choice of words was a criticism of their decision not to work on another expansion (i.e. their failure to invest in this game's future). Was that not clear in the context of my statement? Or do you really want to engage in an argument over the strict definition of "maintenance mode"? I know it's a popular subject and all. I'm just not sure it would be productive.

    There already exists enough panic on the forums about the demise of ANet and GW2. You have seen the threads, I'm sure. Some might take your comment at face-value.

    Besides, prior to the expansion announcement, how do we know that Anet was failing to invest in the game's future?

    I get it. You're frustrated and disappointed. Many are. In my opinion, that isn't reason enough to add to the existing FUD with claims which have no basis.

    Now you want to argue the definition of "failure to invest", too?

    We're talking past tense here. It's likely the "panic" and talk of "maintenance mode" were factors in the decision to move on another expansion. It signals to players that they are continuing to invest in this game's future. We can argue semantics, but that's what this is ultimately about.

    Unfortunately, that decision did not come free from consequence and does not resolve every issue caused by the mistake it seeks to address. If they had remained committed all along, they would have been working on this expansion from the moment PoF released. For whatever reason (I have my theories on the matter!) that didn't happen.

    As a result they don't have the luxury of taking their time, but expectations are high. They need a win on this. I don't feel it's alarmist to make that observation. However, I'm concerned that, in their rush to push out the next expansion, they're providing too little support to the game we're playing right now (see promised PvP balance and subsequent admissions that they lack the resources to do it as well as arguably low-effort story releases). If player feedback means anything at all, I see some value in making these opinions known.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The original Living World was more engaging, took place in already existing maps and altered them significantly. Although some of the patches were quite small, the content was more immersive in my opinion. As good as it sounded and worked during Season 1, it was just too expensive. With LS3, they began to bind LW content directly to specific new maps, expanding the world-map. This turned out to be an improvement at first, but came with a high price. As you say in the RL, you cannot spend the same coin twice. Holding the balance between mapping, events, story-telling and side-quests turned out to be horribly difficult. Some maps ended up with wide barren-areas, like the water-area of both Ember Bay and Draconis Mons. Certain sections were scrapped during the process, like that huge section of Istan. We had great maps with barely any story-instances at all, mostly at the end of LW4. Sometimes the balance was almost perfect.

    In the long run, Living World worked out for GW2. Its reputation might be a little better nowadays if they did not hype everything and promised unrealistic release-cadences one after another. However I think, that content is a lot more difficult to create and to balance than an Expansion. You have to deal with a lot of limitations and have to find the optimal balance. Not to forget the time-pressure, with the audience prying the next episode out of your hands, right after you released the previous one. The drama on the forums if the release delays by 20 minutes or more ... xD. Then they release it too early and have to fix all the nasty things under even higher pressure. My highest level of respect for the people who have to do that.

    If Living World was developed as expansions, released in full seasons after 2-3 years of development, they would have been of higher quality for sure. The game is more than 8 years old now. We are still on the market, still considered an viable option for many people. The concept seems to work out.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Some maps ended up with wide barren-areas

    This may come as a hot take to you, but it's okay for maps to have patches of peace, rather than flood the player with busywork or "something is always happening, everywhere."

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    Like in general the content just doesn't pull people in, like it lacks hype and I just don't get why. I finally got around to doing the Elegy Armor collection a month or so ago and I feel like that was one of my most powerful story experiences ever in an MMO.

    Getting skins equals a "powerful story experience"? Okay. ;) I have to admit, though, that Jahai was definitely a good release and I enjoyed it thoroughly, as with most of Season 4. :)

    The reason why Living World content is often perceived with a lot of negativity is its inconsistency in quality and quantity. Not all LW releases are of equally high quality, as shown by the recent "Truce" release (and some others in the past). Quality of story, map, map contents, meta events, and achievements greatly vary between releases, and it's rare that all those are given a thumbs-up in a single release.

    That's why I am an advocate for expansions rather than LW releases. See my signature. I prefer a polished, consistent release with a satisfying conclusion at the end, where you can also play ar your own pace (and don't have to wait to be spoon-fed) and cannot be disappointed by such discrepancies in content and quality within.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I enjoy the living story for the most part, but as some mention there are noticeable dips in quality at certain points. I'm always grateful for more story content, which has always been the main draw of games for me. There are definitely changes to the story I would make, but the game has entertained me since 2012 so I'm in it for the long haul.

    What is more disappointing is learning about cut content, cause usually that more than anything accents the weaker episodes in ls.

    Icebrood Saga felt pretty strong to me until now, and though I am disappointed how piecemeal the content drops will be for the remainder, I did like the character interactions in the DRMs. Interesting conflicts between characters. If there's more of that then I will enjoy that aspect of Champions. The things that really get to me happen when ANet gives us consequences or hard choices they immediately back away from, or give really sudden heel turns/reveals. Personally did not like S3 setting up Lazarus and then revealing it to be Balthazar, or recently when Jormag says the balance is fake and no one contests it (of course it remains to be seen if this is part of some bigger magical manipulation on Jormag's part).

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2020

    Change in staff, direction and leadership? Can't put it any other way. The older LWs were much better in every way for me. And Aetherkey Pieces dropping in the DRM, real nice rewards---NOT!!

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find LW more enjoyable when I take an alt through it. When I play newly released episodes I hate reaching the end because I know I will be waiting to continue the story. That is the nature of the beast though. It is also why I have so many alts lol. It is definitely not a flop for me.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Living world lacks replayable content, challenge, and rewards. The best living world does is add a new meta event farm each map. Challenging & rewarding content keeps people around, and gw2 has abandoned both of those.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭

    Living World isn't necessarily a "flop". It just doesn't pull in new blood like an expansion does. Yes some episodes are perhaps weaker in their delivery and content than others. However they do a decent job of providing existing players with plenty to do.

    It also doesn't help that the Living World has held the sterotype of being "An hour of content and you're done." We have come a long way from the days of Flame and Frost starring the Commander of the Pact, signpost repair extrordinaire for those that were around back then. Sure maybe the Champions season finale so far is a little lackluster in terms of content, we at least know exactly why it is lacking.

    People will see that the population will spike greatly when End of Dragons hits and it naturally will level off again. We will likely see another spike with the eventual Steam release and a leveling off again with whatever Living World, or iteration they create after EoD. This is just the natural ebb and flow of an online game. Nothing to be alarmed of.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    Kinda big to state that living world is a flop. I enjoyed a lot ls1, end ls3 and start ls4, well and ls5 prologue. (Lake doric, draconic mons, siren reef then istan and sandswept, grothmar)

    Wasn't fan of ls2 at all, the dive in the past with the sylvari could have been cool, but don't like efforts were put in it. Worst infiltration, even transport facility of ls4e2 or e3 with bypassing awakened is better. My only regret of ls1 is not being able to enjoy anymore old LA or fighting the knights or prime hologram, really, attack of LA should be a fractal, you save citizens, you stop toxic/molten/aetherblade portal then you kill a knight involving the three atunement to end killing scarlet prime on breachmaker. You have your plot.

    To me, living world has various quality depending on episodes, but it has the merit of giving you a map, a meta, events, nodes, possible armor pieces, gh decos, ascendeds.... what the kitten is that new form of release of DRM? No map to complete, no good rewards, nothing apart long instances with sponge boss and nothing to do in parallel. They better had sticked to continuing releasing episodes, it a very weird turn half of that season.

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  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    Couldn't say it better than hugo ^^^!!!!! I found LS fine and enjoyed them until Drizzlewood started, OK, I did it and have moved on. But DRMS????? What were they thinking??? (Just loved getting aetherblade keys from DRMs drop btw)

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because 3 months of nothing from a release to another is devasting for a game.
    And no, 8 years-old festivals don't count as something in-between.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    Because 3 months of nothing from a release to another is devasting for a game.
    And no, 8 years-old festivals don't count as something in-between.

    I wonder if that is really the case. Am I really the exception who thinks that it is not bad if there is no new content even after 3 months? Especially if it is content that you have in a few hours through and then only the achievment grind comes anyway?
    I would have nothing against it if Anet would take more time and would bring really good content. For me personally, everything that came after POF is a pure flop and before it has already indicated because POF were just mob hordes over mob hordes in my eyes.
    Personally, I'm good at finding my own occupations, if there are good ones. And I can keep myself busy with things for a very long time. But these last constant 3-month-updates never kept me in the game for long. In the meantime I'm even no longer one of those who are logging in on day 1 .... 2 ... 15 after a new update came.

    Wonder what they could create if they would not let themselves be so pressured by the community.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem is probably more that if there is no content for 3 months, you will get people saying the game is dead, Anet has abandoned it, etc. So even if the result is that after 4 months, there is a bigger/better release, Anet is fighting that perception for 3 months that nothing is going on.
    Releasing content, even poor content, perhaps gives some people solace that Anet is still working on the game.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

    Because you want to play solo.

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

    Because you want to play solo.

    You need to read the comment correctly before you continue this conversation

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

    Because you want to play solo.

    You need to read the comment correctly before you continue this conversation

    I might have mixed up the threads mate, still dont see, what part of the living world is rehashed group content tho.
    Thought you were talking about the DRMs

  • Justified.9178Justified.9178 Member ✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

    Because you want to play solo.

    You need to read the comment correctly before you continue this conversation

    I might have mixed up the threads mate, still dont see, what part of the living world is rehashed group content tho.
    Thought you were talking about the DRMs

    The DRMs are instant versions of the content that came after Battle for Lion's Arch when Brisban Wildlands was attacked. That was group content to introduce new systems in the game that were not available as nothing like that existed before

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Justified.9178 said:
    Its because the content is rehashed group content and at the heart of it players are primarily solo, its just a bonus when you have people that you can group with. The only part of the LW that is designed as solo content is the story and because the story is unique to its season it takes to long to produce and leaves massive voids in game.

    You can solo both forging steel and the DRMs so whats this about it being group content?

    Are the core hot and pof stories group content just becuse you can enter with 5 people?

    I never said you couldnt but why would you bother when you only get bronze rewards ? Its rehashed systems and locations nothing new and very bland content for the time it took to produce its not worth the investment in "my opinion".

    Because you want to play solo.

    You need to read the comment correctly before you continue this conversation

    I might have mixed up the threads mate, still dont see, what part of the living world is rehashed group content tho.
    Thought you were talking about the DRMs

    The DRMs are instant versions of the content that came after Battle for Lion's Arch when Brisban Wildlands was attacked. That was group content to introduce new systems in the game that were not available as nothing like that existed before

    Your talking about living world season 2 now?
    Edit
    Cant say I remember any other attacks on brisban wildlands but its been awhile so please refresh my memory mate.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solvar.7953 said:
    The problem is probably more that if there is no content for 3 months, you will get people saying the game is dead, Anet has abandoned it, etc. So even if the result is that after 4 months, there is a bigger/better release, Anet is fighting that perception for 3 months that nothing is going on.
    Releasing content, even poor content, perhaps gives some people solace that Anet is still working on the game.

    Yeah sure, now it wouldn't work either way. Also this whole, free LW if you log in a certain period of time....
    And I'm not talking about subscriptions. I think it would have made a lot of difference if they had just produced the stuff longer and bigger and then charged a sum for it.
    But the train has left the station and we will never know how successful, or not successful, they would have been. Unfortunately.

    People always like to forget that such things take time. Large paintings are not painted in a few days.
    But nowadays everything has to be produced yesterday with super much content.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i dont think they are at all. (well maybe the last episode) but it's been always nice content IMO. i enjoy them a lot.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think many people, especially in the later posts, forgot what the OP was about and only replied based on the, not accurately chosen, topic title. They are talking about the lack of hype and how the living world doesn't pull players in, although the quality is there, even gives an example of a high quality "quest" in Jahai Bluffs. And I agree finishing the Elegy armor collection was a good experience. They aren't saying that the living world is terrible... but I guess the word "flop" in the title can lead players to think otherwise, especially those who don't bother to read the actual posts.

    There are many high quality collections (GW2 version of "quests" from other RPGs) that have well written dialogue and some interesting developments. Also some meta events (before you repeat them a thousand times) have interesting storylines and ideas. Episodes can be hit or miss in that regard. As for the "Hype" part, I think they overhyped the game in the past, especially pre-HOT, and are now very cautious about it. Which leads to the other end, lack of hype. We only get a trailer 1 week before the release of an episode and that's it.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I think many people, especially in the later posts, forgot what the OP was about and only replied based on the, not accurately chosen, topic title. They are talking about the lack of hype and how the living world doesn't pull players in, although the quality is there, even gives an example of a high quality "quest" in Jahai Bluffs. And I agree finishing the Elegy armor collection was a good experience. They aren't saying that the living world is terrible... but I guess the word "flop" in the title can lead players to think otherwise, especially those who don't bother to read the actual posts.

    There are many high quality collections (GW2 version of "quests" from other RPGs) that have well written dialogue and some interesting developments. Also some meta events (before you repeat them a thousand times) have interesting storylines and ideas. Episodes can be hit or miss in that regard. As for the "Hype" part, I think they overhyped the game in the past, especially pre-HOT, and are now very cautious about it. Which leads to the other end, lack of hype. We only get a trailer 1 week before the release of an episode and that's it.

    TE has not commented since his first post and in the course of the discussion a new theme emerged. Not the first and not the last time that something like this will happen. Especially because the topics are not so far from one another.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lw it self is fine if you take it for what it is, content between major releases (expansions). When you take expansions out of the equation lw has to carry years and years of no new class gameplay or systems and the rest of the game is hardly getting anything, so the cracks start to show.

    Gw2 woupd be in a much better state if after se4 we got an expansion (on clock for tye 2 year schedule that hot and pof had set prior).

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    I like it. The end of LWS4 and The Icebrood Saga was what drew me back in. It was the writing, generally. I mean, for the first time in the game's history they've been trying to write something different and I find it very compelling. The story is quite unlike... If I'm honest, it's unlike anything in video games right now, not even just the mainstream. It feels abstract, strange, and unusual. It has a certain dream-like quality to it with how fantastic it can be, whilst also having a certain soulful depth. It's difficult to articulate precisely what's so enthralling to me—beyond just Jormag, because it's no secret how much I adore that ice dragon—but... It speaks to me. This is the most "hype" I've been about Guild Wars 2 in a long, long time.

    Fantasy always retreads the same bloody stories, over and over. There are only a few subsets of fantasy tropes, if I were being cynical I could narrow it down to three and say that if you've read one? You've read them all. They all follow the same basic narrative path. Sci-Fi has the same problem if I'm being true to myself—simians in sardine cans, and the sardine cans have windows! Transparent materials are heavy! I mean, in an advanced setting, you'd expect morphological freedom and for everyone to have gone completely off the rails. Frankly, by the time we start to colonise I... strongly suspect that due to growing ecological concerns, we'll have shed our bodies in preference of living in virtualised spaces that can house many more people with a smaller footprint.

    Where was I? Oh yes. Fantasy tends to be very... predictable. It grants the average mind the same plot points every time. It's a world of horrors where everyone is a psychopath, oh the political intrigue; It's a hero's journey through an untamed owrld of magic; et cetera. Guild Wars 2 is the only setting I've seen in a long time that dares to be a little less... predicable, that has the courage to tell a story outside of the usual comfort zones, something a little more risky. I appreciate it.

    I'm not even certain if the finer nuances have been picked up on by a lot of players. I enjoy it, though. Who really invaded the Vigil Keep, was it actually Jormag? Why trust the spirits when they eat children? Drakkar actually is a baby and we haven't really given them a chance, so why is the Commander so desperate to murder them. Why is the Claw of Jormag so deathly afraid of the United Legions? I get the feeling he's only there since he's worried that a gaggle of abominations are about to slaughter his mother.

    It's an interesting play on perspective. Certainly, we might be the hero—yet we might also be a murderous tyrant, acting on tribal instinct, one who doesn't bother to logically consider the evidence available to them.

    It's a refreshing change of pace as it sidesteps the usual glorified human sanctity that so many fantasy settings direly need to move away from. I mean, we're not narcissistic sociopaths, we don't need to be told how fantastic our species is every few minutes. A sin that the original Guild Wars was also all too guilty of. There are many things GW2 does that I find very refreshing.

    So I disagree. I'm very "hype." I have all of the positive energy. Even if their resources are limited as they develop an expansion, this is the most interested I've been in a fantasy book, film, or video game in some time.

    The last time I was this pleased was when a man yelled the names of various sciences at a demonic entity to defeat him.

  • Adenin.5973Adenin.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    As I see it people will not excited about anything in an MMO, unless it provides them with a reason to do stuff in the game.

    So if you have an incredible reward that is sooo good that people will start no-lifing your game just to get that reward. That's exciting, because rewards rarely fail to motivate people.

    If you introduce a new gameplay layer, like adding in a complete new gathering/crafting system to your game, where you can find nodes in the game and send little NPC workers there to harvest plants, chop trees, mine ore etc that you then can sell for profit etc. This will make people to log in an spend the next 20+ hrs to explore the map all over again, to unlock these nodes and then spend the next 100+ hours theorycrafting and experimenting to find the best ways to make as much money as possible.
    So, people will be excited about that because it wants to make them play the game.

    And we've seen that indeed that's also true for GW2 community. Adding new gameplay layers like Mounts, that fundamentally change the gameplay in the open world, when they announced that, this got people incredibly excited, since they want to log in and unlock and find every single mount that there is and use their fun skills.

    Exact same thing can be said about new elite specs. New gameplay layers added to the game.

    But adding the same thing over and over and over again, sparsely spread out with a few releases over the entirety of the year, talking about living story maps and events, samey, generic and boring rewards. On top of that a story that is (imo and in the opinion of pretty much most of my gamer friends) even for MMO standards merely "okay" for the most part.

    I am sorry, this does not get me excited at all. It's barely enough to open my client and download

    I'd rather spend my time on playing an actual story driven singleplayer game or check out some other MMO update/patch that released with actual and meaningful content (like BDO releasing a new class for example), or just watch a movie/show instead

    Afterall the reason I play MMOs is progression, customization and at least some form of social aspect.
    And since all my characters have the best gear, the shiniest armors and weapons that fit my style exactly and the content that would be social is too much hassle for the reward, while the content that isn't social is far too easy for still no reward, I just can't get excited with living story.

    And unless the new xpac has super cool cosmetics that I want, incredibly fun elite specs, super cool new gameplay layers, I won't get excited about that either