The Amulet system - my two cents

I understand why people are asking for this, I don't understand what they think it will fix. If you visit the PvP sub-forum here, you can see that they are just as unhappy with balance as we are. The difference is that WvW does not take place on very small maps with a node capturing objective. Capturing and defending is a part of WvW yes, but it is not at all the same. Builds are not balanced with consideration for their strength on a node with a radius of 240 and much of the time players will not be restricted to a small area.

Adding the Amulet system will not remove the ability for professions like Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers, etc. to be extremely mobile and difficult to pin down. It will not stop players from using 1 shot gimmick builds. It will not stop players from zerging or ganking. And it will not make many of the worst offending builds any less broken.

Although stats would be greatly reduced and builds would be more streamlined, there are still a variety of builds in PvP that are problematic for average players, which the vast majority of WvW players are. And when you realize that most of the PvP Amulets are designed to prevent players from being too durable, it means the percentage of players with high defenses in their builds would greatly decrease and thus people would be dying just as quickly as they do right now.I therefore do not believe it will resolve anything.

I feel like many of the people who have requested this change haven't thought it entirely through so I felt like putting it in to perspective. Typically I wouldn't start a thread to voice my thoughts as I'd prefer to keep it to individual comments where it's less bothersome but, with the recent "announcement for WvW', I've become a little paranoid for what's to come...

I wouldn't get too worried about the amulet system coming to WvW. That would be the final nail in the coffin of WvW for many of us, and I think Anet is well aware of that. Unless of course, they actually do want to kill the mode entirely. /shrug

That's not to say they won't introduce something else that's nearly as horrible.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:but, with the recent "announcement for WvW', I've become a little paranoid for what's to come...

i dont think they would announce that as extremly awesome announcement.

a blueprint tome so blueprints/traps/tricks only need 1 bag slot seems much more likely ;)

I think it's a mistake to get too invested in any particular theory. ANet has sometimes hyped upcoming patches only to leave us non-plussed. And other times, they've barely hinted a word about something that turned out phenomenal. I am a big fan of the company in many ways, but I think they'd do better to just say they are making an announcement and let us decide whether it's awesome or not.

Pretty sure a lot of people would leave wvw if the amulet system were implemented. And it would make those players who made wvw leggy armors just for the QoL it provides in wvw, scratch their heads in disbelief. I really hope they announce a wvw legendary amulet tho!

Comparing current sPvP balance to WvW is a failure to begin with - it heavily revolves around being able to stand on a tiny capping circle. That type of combat does not exist in WvW. We have no way of knowing how WvW would play between classes if you just plain brought over the amulet system and sPvP balance.

That said, the amulet system is IMO way to rigid to consider. Would have been more interesting with weapons + armor + trinket though, in order to combo stats.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Comparing current sPvP balance to WvW is a failure to begin with...

Actually it is the opposite, a large amount of the balance QQ in this forum is simply answered by the game was designed around sPvP and it is sPvP/conquest that provides a large part of balance to certain things (being able to disengage nearly at will, high ranged damage, fighting outnumbered, etc) hence balance is always going to broken in WvW without the balance sPvP/conquest provides.

The only failure is by people not comparing with sPvP and realising class balance discussions are basically pointless for WvW. Even more so when you add on top of that they barely make any balance changes for WvW and what small changes they do make are only for large scale. (and which normally are so minor they barely make any difference to that as shown by squads with 80-90% of the players made up by three classes)

I've explained this before, but I'd like the pvp amulet system for the ENTIRE game, not just WvW (And I'd be completely fine with it being optional). The reason is that I find leveling, gearing, swapping items/runes/sigils etc some of the most annoying aspects of this game, and enjoy the pvp build's system of letting me do that on the fly.

Similarly I also find the Amulet system with a single stat block to be an easy and fast way to test out different things/builds/varieties on the fly to adapt to situations, rather than crafting/buying bunch of trinkets and fill my inventory to change some stats slightly.

I'd be completely fine with having an Amulet system split up into 2 or even 3 parts, so you could pick 3 different stat sets to mix stats. I just honestly think that more than 3-way-split is honestly redundant, over that you don't really add any depth to build making, just more complexity for complexity's sake. (And thus I loath the current stat setup with 11-12 items all affecting your stats at any given time, with lots of alternative changes on weapon swap and underwater, each with a different amount of stats etc. It's just extra complexity with no real depth added to it, a spreadsheet minigame inside the game.)

(If anyone wonders, got about 4 characters decked out in full ascended, rest in a mix with mostly ascneded weapons and trinkets, and exo armor. But it also means I don't bother changing stats often, or runes, or sigils, because it's just too damn annoying to bother)

@"joneirikb.7506" said:

I'd be completely fine with having an Amulet system split up into 2 or even 3 parts, so you could pick 3 different stat sets to mix stats. I just honestly think that more than 3-way-split is honestly redundant, over that you don't really add any depth to build making, just more complexity for complexity's sake. (And thus I loath the current stat setup with 11-12 items all affecting your stats at any given time, with lots of alternative changes on weapon swap and underwater, each with a different amount of stats etc. It's just extra complexity with no real depth added to it, a spreadsheet minigame inside the game.)

This is what I have been saying. Weapons+Sigils/Armor+Runes/Trinkets. Select stats for each (and since it's WvW, no restrictions like PvP, have ALL the options). If they have Ascended/Legendary, those Infusion slots do count for the bonus. They earned them.

Easier on everyone to change stats and try builds. Also easier on new players.

One of the biggest rants I see from "The WvW Vets" about new players is them coming in with their PvE builds, and underleveled, and with bad habits from PvE. Well, if potential players could try out WvW at level 2 like they can PvP, maybe the'd get hooker earlier, without those PvP habits, and we could teach them better.

But we got this "large"^1 vocal group of "vets" that seem to have a rather toxic, "I had to struggle to get all this, so do you!" mentality.^2 At the same time, everyone complains the mode is dying slowly. Well folks, it's a PvP mode, and the key to all popular PvP modes and games is accessibility. Over half of my attempts to recruit for the mode fail because people look at the actual cost to be competitive (get each class to level 80, get the Elite specs, at least all Exotic Weapons/Armor and Ascended Trinkets) and decide it's not worth the time. If you want the mode to flourish, you have to let go of the past and embrace change to make it appeal to new players.

Otherwise all you Veterans can fight over the last map alone, as someone turns off the lights on the mode.

Also, as a last note - "Everyone" here and on reddit claim they want build templates. Well, where is the only place in the game that has even a skeletal version? PvP. If you want build templates, odds are it will have to come with this kind of trade-off due to how complex the current gear system is.

1: I put that in quotes because I don't believe it is near as big as their noise makes it seem.

2: And, I suspect, a great many of them also enjoy the sense of power and easier kills that the equipment disparity provides them.

ye it would be better to tone down damage multipliers, coefficients, as well as personal healing. ez 25 might nerf would be really good too. some condi shaves would also be in order.

stat nerf wouldn't solve much its true, and I used to be for this lol.

WvW is meant to be an open world PvX map where any level of skill & geared player can encounter any level of skill & geared opponent. So yeah if people think an amulet system will magically make them better at the game, I would be happy to show them why spvp has a rating system. And while we are at wrecking WvW let's cap the borderlands at 5v5v5 too. The people wanting the amulet system would probably be found cowering in towers.

@Justine.6351 said:WvW is meant to be an open world PvX map where any level of skill & geared player can encounter any level of skill & geared opponent. So yeah if people think an amulet system will magically make them better at the game, I would be happy to show them why spvp has a rating system. And while we are at wrecking WvW let's cap the borderlands at 5v5v5 too. The people wanting the amulet system would probably be found cowering in towers.

This attitude, right here, ties into that Accessibility point I made.

I dont think that people realize that majority of (meta) builds use mix of gear stats, whether it's zerg builds or roaming builds such as mara/zerk, cele/grieving, marshall/cele, shaman/apothecary, dire/trailblazer etc etc. Amulet system is boring and works only in pvp since there's only one kind of content - conquest. Wvw has at least 3 different types of play style depending on your group size.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:

I'd be completely fine with having an Amulet system split up into 2 or even 3 parts, so you could pick 3 different stat sets to mix stats. I just honestly think that more than 3-way-split is honestly redundant, over that you don't really add any depth to build making, just more complexity for complexity's sake. (And thus I loath the current stat setup with 11-12 items all affecting your stats at any given time, with lots of alternative changes on weapon swap and underwater, each with a different amount of stats etc. It's just extra complexity with no real depth added to it, a spreadsheet minigame inside the game.)

You vastly confuse skill with stats. It is as if EVERY pver had snowcrows build and stats, they would magically also have snowcrows dps. Which they dont. I can understand people wanting free stuff, free stats, even free statswapping, without having to pay the cost. And wvw doesnt need ascended armor, that is the number one misinformation right there. Exotics work fine, reward tracks are a great source to get both selectable stats armors FOR FREE and living story currencies for ascended trinkets. "Equipment disparity". In wvw. A joke.

the only thing that wvw and pvp need in terms of "balance" is patches every month, not once or twice a year. the meta getting shaken up once a year is bullshit.

I think I would quit wvw if they made amulets system. I love the build diversity, but they could make armor/stat scaling, so ppl in exotics have same stats as in ascended

"I had to struggle to get all this, so do you!"

Gosh those zerker stats were hard to get. Don't want to do that again!

@"Ni In.6578" said:

"I had to struggle to get all this, so do you!"

Rofl yeah, I had my warrior in full berserker exotics my first week in guild wars back in 2012. And that was with the trading post down. Yep I crafted it all self found. Praise to minotaurs in frostgorge sound for the blood and ty cursed shores for the ectos and mining nodes for the rubies.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:WvW is meant to be an open world PvX map where any level of skill & geared player can encounter any level of skill & geared opponent. So yeah if people think an amulet system will magically make them better at the game, I would be happy to show them why spvp has a rating system. And while we are at wrecking WvW let's cap the borderlands at 5v5v5 too. The people wanting the amulet system would probably be found cowering in towers.

Accessibility to start… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_level_80_exotic_armor

Work on leveling crafting... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting to make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

Play wvw and buy Ascended gear... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Supervisor

…Anet has created a gear system that's easier to obtain max level gear. There are many convenient processes to crafting. Gear you make isn't devalued and you can even stat swap Ascended weapons and armor...and certain newer trinkets.

Over 6 years I have made or bought 400 Ascended gear pieces. Obtained Raid Legendary Armor. Made or bought https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Dreamer. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frenzy_(weapon). https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Howler. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incinerator. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kudzu. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kamohoali%27i_Kotaki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Predator. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rodgort. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunrise. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twilight. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternity. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Astralaria. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chuka_and_Champawat. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eureka. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/HOPE. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nevermore. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharur. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pharus. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warbringer. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aurora. For WvW play... And I'm obviously not the only one who has made gears for WvW over the course of years... And the devs aren't going to screw over players, or change the gear system for matter.

I'm generally not a fan saying it like this, but those that want the amulet system need to not be lazy.... Everyone can easily start wvw with cheap exotics, or play forever in exotics. Other gears can be made or obtained over time, and the dev WANT players playing over time... Go participate in STRUCTURED pvp if you want a structured amulet gear system and to fight over small circles in 5v5s. WvW is modeled after "open world" DAoC Realm vs Realm gameplay, and the current gear system will not change because some of you do not want to put in the time to gear up...

This request from some of you isn't about "balance", it's about not wanting to put in the effort to making gears. And it's kinda silly that some of you are trying to impose a pvp amulet system on wvw and claiming "balance", when pvp is far from balanced... even with the amulet system. The amulet system was a logical design choice for spvp because Anet wanted to break into the e-sports scene... https://www.eslgaming.com/, but this is wvw we are talking about here.

You peeps are not getting an amulet system inside of wvw for a plethora of reasons. Sorry.

I never threw support for that change, but I could see why people think it's a good idea to get balancing of stats better, especially with certain combination that were banned from spvp (but who's to say they would be banned for wvw too).

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:ye it would be better to tone down damage multipliers, coefficients, as well as personal healing. ez 25 might nerf would be really good too. some condi shaves would also be in order.

stat nerf wouldn't solve much its true, and I used to be for this lol.

What he said.Balance for wvw has gone way beyond stats these days, when you bulk up on toughness and still feel like you're wearing paper armor at times with the insane damage that can be thrown around. Too much trying to one up offense or defense systems since HoT, too much boons and trying to counter with corruptions, too much high spike damage and immunity and blocks and reflects to counter, too much condition spamming to counter manual clearing. etc.

At some point this game is going to have to tone down the offense and defense systems, ever since HoT they've been lowering the ttk, like conditions doing a ton of damage at the start of each expansion, and there's more viable one shot builds around today than back in core. Which is perfectly fine for pve when you're beating up npcs with massive amounts of hitpoints, not so much for players.

P.S The current map queued boon ball blob meta is getting very annoying to face in every tier. Need more corruption as the next step of one up, thanks anet u da best.

Putting an amulet system in WvW will make the gamemode become a big conquest mode with the same issues of pvp.Professions that can actually theorycraft builds around stats like weaver to be somewhat viable for roaming will be completely cutted off same as pvp and forced to use trash amulets which are not viable. and the usual holos soulbeast and condi mirages will dominate.A tuning down of damage and sustain is probably the best choice, but again builds with crazy high sustain will become unkillable even with a sustain nerf.So hard to balance at this point...We will see in few days what they got for us.

Just being able to eliminate entire stat sets from play would be worth the swap.

Everything else would be icing on the cake.

I really appreciate you taking the time to type this up @"SpellOfIniquity.1780". Though, I would first like to talk from the perspective of someone who would play 7 of the 9 professions. My main being a Mesmer... so my primary focus tends to lie there.After each balance patch I would decide if whether or not I wish to change my builds to whatever degree I see fit. In regards to the outcome of said balance patch. And the patch after that... And the patch after that... etc. For years. Which turns out to be a giant pain in the ass to have to try to keep up with.

I absolutely love to make and test builds. Though, the more I wish to fully explore my options... The higher the cost. The last build I made for my Mesmer (A mix of Berserker, Valk and Maruader's stats with Scholar Runes) ended up costing me... I believe it was upwards of 125-150g. Somewhere in there, at the time. And that was with Ascended already existing from a previous build that I could just transmute the new stats into. But... That's just 1 build. Try keeping up with 7 while having a life... And tell me it's also not a pain in the ass. Also... here's the other thing too. That's assuming I just want to make 1 build per 7 of 9. Usually a Profession, about ever since I can remember really, has more than 1 viable build. So if I want to switch up my playing style (for example Pwr vs Condi)... Again, the higher the cost.

So basically I'm literally having to pay this ridiculous cost in the end per balance patch. The farther down the rabbit hole I decide/am able to go. Just to be able to experience and explore viable ways of playing per profession... And when I put it like that. I find that to be a giant waste of life. So eventually I said screw it after 6 years. And do what I can. Without going out of my way anywhere nearly as much as I used to. Which now just consist of 2 professions... (Mesmer) the other being a Necro/Scourge... because Scourge.Having a reasonable cost is fine and some grind... But honestly just let me enjoy the game, considering that. Without having to bend over backwards for it. Just so I can play/enjoy other ways.

That is a Pro I believe to the Amulet System. People don't really have to bend over backwards to be able to experiment and ultimately play in various different ways.

Now the Pro to WvW as many WvWer's tend to see it. Is there is more build variety. As I've seen it voiced many times in the past and not so far past. And would have to agree with overall. Though, because there is more variety (because various stat combinations/food etc.) is exactly why there should be more freedom to explore that very talked about variety IMO. For those who at least would like to explore it. With very few strings attached.

Now, I'm not gonna get into Ascended/Legendary's here unless I feel somewhat obligated to. Having said that... I think the Amulet System (besides what I wrote about it) is gonna be more of a matter of "Put your money where your mouth is" and let's see just how many dollars each side is left with. Therefore, I would certainly be down to test if it given the option. So we could actually weigh the Pro's and Con's relating to a WvW environment. As as opposed to a just PvP one. That is in reality and not just in our heads. And then from there preferably take the Pro's and create a System that instead favor's WvW regarding them. However, I'm sure the ending of this is just wishful thinking, as usual.

Edit: Had to fix a few typo's... sorry.

@Whiteout.1975 said:I really appreciate you taking the time to type this up @"SpellOfIniquity.1780". Though, I would first like to talk from the perspective of someone who would play 7 of the 9 professions. My main being a Mesmer... so my primary focus tends to lie there.After each balance patch I would decide if whether or not I wish to change my builds to whatever degree I see fit. In regards to the outcome of said balance patch. And the patch after that... And the patch after that... etc. For years. Which turns out to be a giant pain in the kitten to have to try to keep up with.

I absolutely love to make and test builds. Though, the more I wish to fully explore my options... The higher the cost. The last build I made for my Mesmer (A mix of Berserker, Valk and Maruader's stats with Scholar Runes) ended up costing me... I believe it was upwards of 125-150g. Somewhere in there, at the time. And that was with Ascended already existing from a previous build that I could just transmute the new stats into. But... That's just 1 build. Try keeping up with 7 while having a life... And tell me it's also not a pain in the kitten. Also... here's the other thing too. That's assuming I just want to make 1 build per 7 of 9. Usually a Profession, about ever since I can remember really, has more than 1 viable build. So if I want to switch up my playing style (for example Pwr vs Condi)... Again, the higher the cost.

So basically I'm literally having to pay this ridiculous cost in the end per balance patch. The farther down the rabbit hole I decide/am able to go. Just to be able to experience and explore viable ways of playing per profession... And when I put it like that. I find that to be a giant waste of life. So eventually I said screw it after 6 years. And do what I can. Without going out of my way anywhere nearly as much as I used to. Which now just consist of 2 professions... (Mesmer) the other being a Necro/Scourge... because Scourge.Having a reasonable cost is fine and some grind... But honestly just let me enjoy the game, considering that. Without having to bend over backwards for it. Just so I can play/enjoy other ways.

That is a Pro I believe to the Amulet System. People don't really have to bend over backwards to be able to experiment and ultimately play in various different ways.

Now the Pro to WvW as many WvWer's tend to see it. Is there is more build variety. As I've seen it voiced many times in the past and not so far past. And would have to agree with overall. Though, because there is more variety (because various stat combinations/food etc.) is exactly why there should be more freedom to explore that very talked about variety IMO. For those who at least would like to explore it. With very few strings attached.

Now, I'm not gonna get into Ascended/Legendary's here unless I feel somewhat obligated to. Having said that... I think the Amulet System (besides what I wrote about it) is gonna be more of a matter of "Put your money where your mouth is" and let's see just how many dollars each side is left with. Therefore, I would certainly be down to test if it given the option. So we could actually weigh the Pro's and Con's relating to a WvW environment. As as opposed to a just PvP one. That is in reality and not just in our heads. And then from there preferably take the Pro's and create a System that instead favor's WvW regarding them. However, I'm sure the ending of this is just wishful thinking, as usual.

Edit: Had to fix a few typo's... sorry.

1 u don't need ascended, exotics are fine. Imo exotics should be scaled to ascended stats in wvw2 leg armor buddy, leg armor

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Whiteout.1975 said:I really appreciate you taking the time to type this up @"SpellOfIniquity.1780". Though, I would first like to talk from the perspective of someone who would play 7 of the 9 professions. My main being a Mesmer... so my primary focus tends to lie there.After each balance patch I would decide if whether or not I wish to change my builds to whatever degree I see fit. In regards to the outcome of said balance patch. And the patch after that... And the patch after that... etc. For years. Which turns out to be a giant pain in the kitten to have to try to keep up with.

I absolutely love to make and test builds. Though, the more I wish to fully explore my options...

The higher the cost

. The last build I made for my Mesmer (A mix of Berserker, Valk and Maruader's stats with Scholar Runes) ended up costing me... I believe it was upwards of 125-150g. Somewhere in there, at the time. And that was

with

Ascended already existing from a previous build that I could just transmute the new stats into. But... That's just 1 build. Try keeping up with 7 while having a life... And tell me it's also not a pain in the kitten. Also... here's the other thing too. That's assuming I just want to make 1 build per 7 of 9. Usually a Profession, about ever since I can remember really, has more than 1 viable build. So if I want to switch up my playing style (for example Pwr vs Condi)... Again, the higher the cost.

So basically I'm literally having to pay this ridiculous cost in the end per balance patch. The farther down the rabbit hole I decide/am able to go. Just to be able to experience and explore viable ways of playing per profession... And when I put it like that. I find that to be a giant waste of life. So eventually I said screw it after 6 years. And do what I can. Without going out of my way anywhere nearly as much as I used to. Which now just consist of 2 professions... (Mesmer) the other being a Necro/Scourge... because Scourge.Having a reasonable cost is fine and

some

grind... But honestly just let me enjoy the game, considering that. Without having to bend over backwards for it. Just so I can play/enjoy other ways.

That is a Pro I believe to the Amulet System. People don't really have to bend over backwards to be able to experiment and ultimately play in various different ways.

Now the Pro to WvW as many WvWer's tend to see it. Is there is more build variety. As I've seen it voiced many times in the past and not so far past. And would have to agree with overall. Though, because there is more variety (because various stat combinations/food etc.) is exactly why there should be more

freedom to explore

that very talked about variety IMO. For those who at least would like to explore it. With very few strings attached.

Now, I'm not gonna get into Ascended/Legendary's here unless I feel somewhat obligated to. Having said that... I think the Amulet System (besides what I wrote about it) is gonna be more of a matter of "

Put your money where your mouth is

" and let's see just how many dollars each side is left with. Therefore, I would certainly be down to test if it given the option. So we could actually weigh the Pro's and Con's relating to a WvW environment. As as opposed to a just PvP one. That is in reality and not just in our heads. And then from there preferably take the Pro's and create a System that instead favor's WvW regarding them. However, I'm sure the ending of this is just wishful thinking, as usual.

Edit: Had to fix a few typo's... sorry.

... So exotics are "fine", but you want it scaled to ascended stats. Even though it is "fine"? Okay.