A customizable Stat-system for PvP

[Zenix.6198]

With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

(First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotalArmor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotalWeapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

A few Examples:

1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

[Dantheman.3589]

They will be some much build diversity that ppl won’t know what to complain about on the forums

[Tayga.3192]

I would really like something like this:1000 power, 1250 condition damage, 500 healing power, 250 toughnessAdd toughness and condition damage rune to this, I could be the ultimate hybrid bunker.

[Teratus.2859]

I don't see why they don't just rework the PvP gear to function like legendary stuff once the Legendary armory comes in.Or the equipment section like the Gw2 build editor has.http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Go to PvP, PvP gear automatically equipped.Click your armour and select stats and runes.Click your weapon slots and select weapons, stats and sigils.Click trinkets and select stats.

Mix and match to your hearts content.

With something like that in place you'd have full build diversity potential and there wouldn't even be a need for dueling in WvW anymore either.It would be cheaper and easier to just do all your small scale PvP in PvP

[Exedore.6320]

Been suggesting this for years, though I felt 50/25/25 was a better allocation.

Also, ANet could restrict certain stat combos to certain slots to prevent too many of one stat.

[DinesenDK.5067]

@"Zenix.6198" said:With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

(First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotalArmor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotalWeapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

A few Examples:

1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

Very nice suggestion. Love the diversity it brings. With that said, there must be a maximum to each stat, so you can't put like 3000 points in condi damage. What that limit should be, or if it should be the same for each stat, I don't know.

[Tycura.1982]

This is like a monthly thread topic lol.

Blah blah I support itBlah blah trail blazers opBlah blah not gonna happen because anet doesn't like us.Blah blah concentration/expertise

[Grimjack.8130]

how to ruin spvp 101

[Zenix.6198]

@DinesenDK.5067 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

(First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotalArmor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotalWeapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

A few Examples:

1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

Very nice suggestion. Love the diversity it brings. With that said, there must be a maximum to each stat, so you can't put like 3000 points in condi damage. What that limit should be, or if it should be the same for each stat, I don't know.

That wouldnt be possible anyway.It's not like you could allocate the 3k stat total completely freely.Its still bound by the maximum of the highest prefix-stat you use (maximum 1200, since thats the highest single stat you can get from current 3-stat amulets).Like the maximum you can get into one stat cant exceed the the highest stat of any single stat prefix currently available.

Edit:

Like if you equip zerker or carrion respectively into each of those 3 equipmentslots: You'd just have the current zerker or carrion stat combination.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah man, might work.

[Lighter.5631]

pvp is about skill, not bob the builder and build the ultimate face roll build.

classes will suffer from more undeserved nerfs thanks to OP stats combination. diversity will be also reduced as the nerfs coming..and it will always end up like now as people only pick the most optimal stats for the role, so even less stats combination played.

remember, there's 6 trait lines per classes with 3 specialization per classes with over 20 utilities and tons of weapon combination to customize, what now?85%+ of the possible builds are not played by the player, because these don't perform not as good as meta.

these changes will change nothing for diversity., if they stop worrying stats, instead actually try to make each specialization viable, that will bring more diversity realistically.

[otto.5684]

I think it is an awesome idea but will never happen. It is more work for Anet on the balance side and sPvP devs are not up to the task (or much really beside incomplete vanity projects).

[Vancho.8750]

Some classes scale better with different amulets, for example holo with knight, didn't lose much damage and got a lot of defense.Maybe all professions or even elites should get different choice of amulets.

[Zenix.6198]

Just to clarify for the skeptics ( @Grimjack.8130 , @"Tycura.1982" ):Maybe I didnt point this out in my OP clearly enough, but the pool of choose-able prefixes would only include those, which already are in PvP.So no Cleric, Minstrel, Viper, Trailblazer or anything similarly broken. It would simply allow to mix and match between the ~15 (?) amulets we currently have in PvP.So any Expertise/Concentration Setup would already be impossible.

This is also the Reason why I prefer a 40/30/30 allocation split over lets say a 50/25/25 or a 25/25/25/25 one, since that would prevent you from equal Power/condi or equal Vitality/Toughness splits....Which means any build would always have to slightly focus towards one type of dmg application/mitigation and therefor not be universally good in every situation but also have weaknesses. Maybe another allocation split would enforce this even more tho. Like a 40/35/25 one.

"Problematic" combinations in the past have always involved High defensive stats coupled with Healing power. But with most of the 900-defensive stat amulets gone, I'm uncertain if its possible to concoct a truly "problematic" combination....but that could obviously be prone to personal bias.So let me share some of the combinations I could see as definitely being strong....with special focus on Toughness/Vit/Healing combos via the 40/30/30 allocation split.

1) a Mender/Sage mix for hybrid-dmg Healers

40% Mender: 400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Prec, 200 Vit30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vit, 150 Healing30%Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vit, 150 HealingTotal (=3000) 1000 Power, 700 Healing, 600 Condi, 500 vit, 200 Prec

2) a Mender/Paladin (=unnerfed) mix for a Cleric-esq power duelist

40% Mender: 400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Prec, 200 Vit30% Pala: 300 Power, 300 Prec, 150 Vit, 150 Toughness30% Pala: 300 Power, 300 Prec, 150 Vit, 150 ToughnessTotal (=3000) 1000 Power, 800 Prec, 500 Vit, 400 Healing, 300 Toughness

3) a Sage/Rabid Mix for a combination of all 3 problem stats

40% Rabid: 480 Condi, 360 Tougness, 360 Prec30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Healing, 150 Vit30% Sage: 300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Healing, 150 VitTotal (=3000) 1080 Condi, 600 Power, 360 Toughness, 360 Prec, 300 Healing, 300 Vit

Like while I could see all 3 of those working for certain classes/specs, I dont think any of them looks particularly broken, if we take currently existing defensive amulets for reference. Like Cele with its 1380 Defense-total (460 in Vit/Toughness/Healing).But again....could just be personal bias talking, so Im open to being convinced otherwise.

[Tycura.1982]

@Zenix.6198You misunderstand. I'm not skeptical of it I support it. My post was referencing the many view points that will come up. That and i have no illusions that this system wouldn't give way to some seriously toxic stuff. Modular stats gets thrown around here all the time.Imagine ele if it had less to sacrifice for healing power. Would be pretty awful. It wouldn't be good for my class though. Warrior really only benefits from Power/Precision/Ferocity/Toughness. There is an argument for vitality but highest base health pool and all makes it not as useful if you ask me. Outside of tactics slotting healing power doesn't have good returns vs toughness. So with all this modularity I would be recreating demolisher or maybe paladin/demolisher.In that lies some if the problem with this system vs the current amulets.If everyone could slot in some level of defensive stats without giving too much damage they probably will. That's why the 4 stat amulets see so much use. That and they removed a lot of the 3 stat tank amulets. Even so the way the amulets are now force certain classes to give up a stat that could be useful. You could use celestial but the trade off for celestial is that you lose out in offensive stats which generally need to be higher than defensives.

Outside of all of that the rework more or less tried to force classes to take glassier amulets to deal damage which isn't really happening since currently bunkers overwhelm glass builds and this kind of stat rework would make tankier stats more prevent. We would be right back where we started with this awful meta.

[NotFound.7813]

@"Teratus.2859" said:I don't see why they don't just rework the PvP gear to function like legendary stuff once the Legendary armory comes in.Or the equipment section like the Gw2 build editor has.http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Go to PvP, PvP gear automatically equipped.Click your armour and select stats and runes.Click your weapon slots and select weapons, stats and sigils.Click trinkets and select stats.

Mix and match to your hearts content.

With something like that in place you'd have full build diversity potential and there wouldn't even be a need for dueling in WvW anymore either.It would be cheaper and easier to just do all your small scale PvP in PvPif there is a amulet system in pvp is for properly balance the game wuth the wvw system there would be a lot of broken stuff just like on wvw so no thanks

[kratan.4619]

There would be no more diversity than now, three or four meta builds will still be the rule and anyone trying a different build will be at the same disadvantage as now. Bad idea

[Zenix.6198]

@"kratan.4619" said:There would be no more diversity than now, three or four meta builds will still be the rule and anyone trying a different build will be at the same disadvantage as now. Bad idea

If the "meta"-argument is the extend of your reasoning, than why bother having more than 4-5 classes with more than 4 traitlines each to begin with. And while we are at it, we can also get rid of 75% of the still existing amulets and runes.

[Megametzler.5729]

Would be nice to see, but probably too much effort and too many balancing issues. Would still love to see it, because honestly, who's taking it serious anymore? Let people enjoy fun builds.

And now for my most important contribution:

Also, pure zerker still only true amulet!!!11

[Stallic.2397]

@Vancho.8750 said:Some classes scale better with different amulets, for example holo with knight, didn't lose much damage and got a lot of defense.Maybe all professions or even elites should get different choice of amulets.

I always imagined this to be a better idea as well. Eliminating amulets based on each class individually rather than across 9 separate classes.

Amulet balancing should be very specific. It would require high attention at first from the devs, but would be better in the long run. Forums would be a riot about which amulets are fair for each class, but forums are always a riot anyway

[phokus.8934]

Adds more complexity in the meta game called balance.

ANet controls the meta and they’re not giving that up anytime soon.

[Bazsi.2734]

@"Zenix.6198" said:With the removal of more and more "problematic" Amulets, I think the "amulet"-system for pvp is in dire need of an overhaul.Im not saying, that it necessarily failed, but the ever-shrinking pool of choices is alarming. Personally I am all for customization and being able to tailor gear to your build rather than the other way around. Interestingly enough, Anet has (at least in the context of my concept) already set the groundwork for it by equalizing the stat total of 3- and 4-stat amulet, and by removing most of the high toughness and vitality amulets.

Anyway, here is my Idea for a new Stat-system:

(First off, its important to point out, that we DO NOT get rid of the amulet system we currently have, but rather expand on it! )As of right now any amulet (par paladin and celestial) gives a total of 3000 statpoints.

Currently however, the players can only pick predetermined combinations of stats with no room for customization.The solution to that would simply be to add more "Equipment slots" while keeping the maximum of the 3000 stattotal (again, par celestial).Players would be able to mix and match all available stat-prefixes (i.e. "berserker", "carrion", "mender", "sage" etc.etc.) as they see fit, while NOT being able to get more than a total of 3000 statpoint throughout all gear-slots.This would obviously mean, that each slot would have reduced stats and only offer a percentage of the 3k stat total.

While you theoretically could go ham with how many slots you implement, Personally I think 3 seems reasonable. As for their stat-weighting, Id suggest the following:Trinket-Slot: 40% of the 3000 stattotalArmor-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotalWeapon-Slot: 30% of the 3000 stattotal

Now you can freely mix and match 3- or even 4-stat stat-prefixes while being capped at the 3k stattotal.

A few Examples:

1. Zerker with mixed minimal Defenses

Trinket (40%) : Zerker (480 Power, 360 Precision, 360 Ferocity)Armor (30%) : Demolisher (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Toughness, 150 Ferocity)Weapon (30%) : Marauder (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Ferocity)Total (3000) : 1080 Power, 960 Precision, 660 Ferocity, 150 Vitality, 150 Toughness)

2. Hybrid DPS with Sustain

Trinket (40%) : Marshal (400 Power, 400 Healing, 200 Condi, 200 Precision)Armor (30%) : Sage (300 Power, 300 Condi, 150 Vitality, 150 Healing)Weapon (30%) : Swashbuckler (300 Power, 300 Precision, 150 Vitality, 150 Condi)Total (3000) : 1000 Power, 650 Condi, 550 Healing, 500 Precision, 300 Vitality

3. The Condi "Tank" (for the skeptics)

Trinket (40%) : Carrion (480 Condi, 360 Vitality, 360 Power)Armor (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Weapon (30%) : Rabid (360 Condi, 270 Toughness, 270 Precision)Total (3000) : 1200 Condi, 540 Toughness, 540, Precision 360 Vitality, 360 Power)

Personally none of these combinations look too out-of-whack in my opinion (even the 3rd one), but obviously I might have overlooked something, so please feel free to point out any broken combinations you may find.But ye, basically its literally just adding more slot-options. The ones above are just one example from the top of my head (you could also go with 3 slots (50% +25% +25%) or 4 slots (25% each) or whatnot). And if in doubt, you can still slap the same stat-prefix in each of those slots and basically keep using the current combinations.

I guess you guys werent around when the game launched... because the stats initially were distributed in a system that was much like your proposal here. Investing in traitlines gave stats, you had several pvp accessories each with its own stats aswell. They moved away from this system because they couldn't balance with all the build and stat diversity it gave.

To this day they keep removing amulets because they cannot balance properly(I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that THEY CAN'T) with the "diversity" we still have. So the game keeps uniformising and dumbing down. We were only ever going the opposite way of what you're suggesting here. With every change to the pvp stat system, consistently for almost 8 years.

Funny thing is, even with all the dumbing down their pvp stat system had to endure, it's still so far from balanced. Like the amount of FOTM builds and how much they outperform everything else in their role is just scary. At first they would need to fix that, and come back to maybe rework the PvP stats once the general balance is not the worst we had since HoT release.