The trapper is forgotten and could be fixed easily

[frareanselm.1925]

I loved the playstyle of the trapper since the begginning and never stoped playing it. Even now that I feel I have a disavantadge vs other meta builds.I main a condi trapper and the game mode the most I play is Wvw.My trapper works well for roaming and 1v1 medium skilled players, but I cannot fight experienced playes although I play since 2012, and the reason is the build.Some classes seem to ignore the effects of the traps, and others like thief with shadowstep or the necro teleport dont get stuck in then, spike trap should be unblockable.I play the druid spec with the trapper for the sole reason of the roots which gives me a little help while my traps dont do it.

The fix is easy:1-Make traps unblockable or unavoidable. Resistance, the new boon is what killed traps in pvp wvw.Or2-Put a little healing, like a 3 sec regen. Its reasonable, and warrior have 3 shout-healing and guardian 3 meditation healings...

[anduriell.6280]

@frareanselm.1925 said:I loved the playstyle of the trapper since the begginning and never stoped playing it. Even now that I feel I have a disavantadge vs other meta builds.I main a condi trapper and the game mode the most I play is Wvw.My trapper works well for roaming and 1v1 medium skilled players, but I cannot fight experienced playes although I play since 2012, and the reason is the build.Some classes seem to ignore the effects of the traps, and others like thief with shadowstep or the necro teleport dont get stuck in then, spike trap should be unblockable.I play the druid spec with the trapper for the sole reason of the roots which gives me a little help while my traps dont do it.

The fix is easy:1-Make traps unblockable or unavoidable. Resistance, the new boon is what killed traps in pvp wvw.Or2-Put a little healing, like a 3 sec regen. Its reasonable, and warrior have 3 shout-healing and guardian 3 meditation healings...

Trap pulses are already unblockable. Those skills need so much more than a quick change, it needs a full rework of the skills and traits.

[Fueki.4753]

As long as Trapper runes exist in PvP, I don't want to see any buffs to traps.It'd cause even more players to pick up disgusting stealth builds.

[Krispera.5087]

If you played Traps since the beginning, you should know the ranger ones are unblockable.

@Fueki.4753 said:As long as Trapper runes exist in PvP, I don't want to see any buffs to traps.It'd cause even more players to pick up disgusting stealth builds.

Agree with removing Trapper Runes and then buff Ranger's Traps appropriately. Why is DH traps so oppressive and Ranger Traps need so much set up to hit.

[Fueki.4753]

@Krispera.5087 said:Why is DH traps so oppressive and Ranger Traps need so much set up to hit.

I actually prefer traps on my conditions Soulbeast over the traps on my power Dragonhunter.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"frareanselm.1925" said:I loved the playstyle of the trapper since the begginning and never stoped playing it. Even now that I feel I have a disavantadge vs other meta builds.I main a condi trapper and the game mode the most I play is Wvw.My trapper works well for roaming and 1v1 medium skilled players, but I cannot fight experienced playes although I play since 2012, and the reason is the build.If by "build" you mean doubling and tripling down on a single type of attack for a mode that really requires a diverse kit, then yes.... the reason might be your build.You could power creep your traps all you want, that player that is wrecking you now is still going to mitigate the hit and is still going to wreck you.

The answer to your problem is in your gameplay, not game balance.

As you yourself noted, they are still oppressive to less experienced players. That alone should tell you that the problem you are having is not with the numbers or effects of the traps but your inability to use them correctly against a better player.

[Shagie.7612]

Traps competing with your stunbreaks and other utilities make them extremely difficult to balance. A lot of damage based utility slot skills run into similar issues. Things like stunbreaks and condi clears are so ridiculously valuable that giving them up is a decision a lot of builds don't really do. One slot at best, basically. You die too easily otherwise.

For them to be of equal value to other utilities means making them ridiculously strong in terms of damage (as that's most of their value), or adding a bunch of non-damage effects that mirror other utilities, at which point you're largely just creating clones of other skills with an extra effect on it and then it comes down to a basic math decision of "is A or B better"

They would probably work better as a weapon set competing against other weapons, or like engi kits. It's not a perfect solution, but I definitely think it'd be a lot more functional than what they are now.

[anduriell.6280]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:Why is DH traps so oppressive and Ranger Traps need so much set up to hit.

I actually prefer traps on my conditions Soulbeast over the traps on my power Dragonhunter.Then you should try traps on your condition Druid.

I agree those runes should go. I see they are needed for trap ranger to work but that's the reason they should go.Runes should fine tune your gameplay giving you that extra punch but shouldn't be the case where they define a build.And yes ranger traps need a rework, think those traps were initially designed to be a ranged aoe and they weren't redesign when the trait was removed.

DH traps are much better design wise and provide better results (still not great but better) .

[Abyssisis.3971]

Yup, DH traps are a lot better than ranger traps. Their elite trap with the pull/barrier, I’d love one of those for ranger, but rangers can’t have nice things.

[Dadnir.5038]

How about allowing the trap trait to make trap ranged (900) again?

[voltaicbore.8012]

Yeah I'd take ranged traps, at the cost of losing trapper runes altogether. Screw DHs with trap stealth. Worst idea ever.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

I've been saying it for 7.5 years now, but I'm going to say it again. Roll all Ranger traps into an Elite Trap Kit.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Krispera.5087 said:If you played Traps since the beginning, you should know the ranger ones are unblockable.

@Fueki.4753 said:As long as Trapper runes exist in PvP, I don't want to see any buffs to traps.It'd cause even more players to pick up disgusting stealth builds.

Agree with removing Trapper Runes and then buff Ranger's Traps appropriately. Why is DH traps so oppressive and Ranger Traps need so much set up to hit.

Both DH and condi ranger rely on that rune to be remotely playable as they both lack proper disengage and survivability from utilities or trait lines without sacrificing all damage.

Not saying the runes aren't zero fun and awful to fight, but two builds absolutely rely on them.

[Kodama.6453]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I've been saying it for 7.5 years now, but I'm going to say it again. Roll all Ranger traps into an Elite Trap Kit.

Unrealistic, never going to happen.

This suggestion is pretty lazy and used on the forum quite often.Already read from people suggesting that turrets from engineer, venoms from thief, and banners from warrior also get bundled into a kit.

People just see a utility type as underwhelming and then they suggest to just bundle them together so they can take all of them at once just by investing 1 single slot. But that's not how Anet should balance the game and would also mess up the system quite a bit in my opinion.

They should work on traps to make them desired on their own.

[KeyOrion.9506]

Trapper roamers are still a thing in both pvp and wvw, and can destroy some opponants that have little to no condition cleansing. Again, it's a personal choice.

[CroTiger.7819]

Traps should have trapper runes implemented in skirmishing traitline instead being a rune available for dh one shots. It should take place of light on your feet and ranger should get proper shortbow traitline aswell which push interupt playstyle with additional condi pressure. Skirmishing should give ranger more condi oriented playstyle especially for shortbow instead of this hybrid nonsense which already exists in other traitlines. Soulbeast traits also need some support for condi builds in minor traitlines and grandmaster epecially not to mention eternal bond which is sad story how they leave things. Light on your feet is worst trailine ever and would better fit both renegade shortbow and thief shortbow playstyle which are hybrid and even have better utility than ranger shortbow. Its not problem about traps whole ranger design doesn t support condi builds except meme spamming builds without any idea and real purpose behind it. When i make my condi build which can come close to defined build and synergy it still hurts to see so boring ideas behind traits like light on your feet and condi ranger weapons overall. I wish its not all about imob spam which meta classes pass by holo leap on low cd or simple dodge on deredevvil.All we can do is be annoying and if you make real condi build which is fun to fight against and play with than you are forced to pick bad designed traits which doesn t even have much synergy with intended weapon like light on your feet. Its all about anet because i came close to optimal builds but they never supported idea of condi ranger playstyle. I know its offtopic a bit but i know what im talking about and traps are just one reason why trapper is dead. Whole idea of condi ranger is messed up with anet cheese balance and while trapper was viable before for short hot period with being throwable it still felt like every other aoe ingame. I think torch bonfire aoe should be ranged and skill 4 should bring some utility cus right now its so boring playstyle. Condi ranger and traps should give different playstyle like offroad police and roaming control (counter to thief with some reveals build in) rather than just drop aoe on point playstyle which this game sufffer already.

[Dahkeus.8243]

The problem with any trapper role hasn't been that traps are unavoidable. To some degree, they should be avoidable since counterplay is good for the game, but as mentioned, they are already unblockable.

The problem with ranger trap builds is that it ends up taking over the spots on your utility skill bar, leaving you without the defensive utility you need to handle combat, such as stun breaks, condition cleanse, etc.

Take a look at dragonhunters, which have been able to work as trappers in PvP much more than rangers have. Dragonhunters have utility, even without their utility skills through their F skills, which far exceed what any ranger gets from their pet or soulbeast merge abilities. Druid does, in theory, have the ability to grant some of that utility through Celestial Avatar, but there's a number of other problems with relying on druid for that since it comes at the cost of damage and relies on being able to generate enough astral force to access it, which is particularly tough on a DPS build.

Additionally, dragonhunters can get a trap on their elite skill which reduces their reliance on stacking their utility bar with trap skills for damage. Entangling roots is the closest that Rangers have to this, but since it's not a trap skill, there's a number of shortfalls that keep this from being the same on ranger.

There's a lot of potential for ranger trap builds, but until they can be done without being hamstrung on the utility side of things, they won't stand a chance in combat like other PvP builds do.

[Abyssisis.3971]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:The problem with any trapper role hasn't been that traps are unavoidable. To some degree, they should be avoidable since counterplay is good for the game, but as mentioned, they are already unblockable.

The problem with ranger trap builds is that it ends up taking over the spots on your utility skill bar, leaving you without the defensive utility you need to handle combat, such as stun breaks, condition cleanse, etc.

Take a look at dragonhunters, which have been able to work as trappers in PvP much more than rangers have. Dragonhunters have utility, even without their utility skills through their F skills, which far exceed what any ranger gets from their pet or soulbeast merge abilities. Druid does, in theory, have the ability to grant some of that utility through Celestial Avatar, but there's a number of other problems with relying on druid for that since it comes at the cost of damage and relies on being able to generate enough astral force to access it, which is particularly tough on a DPS build.

Additionally, dragonhunters can get a trap on their elite skill which reduces their reliance on stacking their utility bar with trap skills for damage. Entangling roots is the closest that Rangers have to this, but since it's not a trap skill, there's a number of shortfalls that keep this from being the same on ranger.

There's a lot of potential for ranger trap builds, but until they can be done without being hamstrung on the utility side of things, they won't stand a chance in combat like other PvP builds do.

The only thing you missed was dropping the mic. Well said.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

There's a lot of potential for ranger trap builds, but until they can be done without being hamstrung on the utility side of things, they won't stand a chance in combat like other PvP builds do.

Soulbeast can slightly mitigate this problem with Bear Stance and Dolyak stance. This of course cuts down on trapper runes' effectiveness, as I end up running just 2 traps instead of 3 or 4, but as you said, the utlity competition is the problem.

I've found that while Bear Stance 2-at-once clear helps me deal with condi pressure a lot better, playing even more defensively and using leaps to make use of the trap heal and slower cleansing pace works... occasionally. I've tried playing without Dolyak Stance, and it was ugly. I had to basically run from absolutely everything, but I couldn't move quite as fast as a mesmer or thief doing decaps and quick +1s.

I think a ranged trap playstyle would solve the current problems to a degree, as being able to throw traps predictively would help our traps land more pulses without being 100% melee (and thereby necessitating more stunbreak/utility options than a safer midrange style).

[Dahkeus.8243]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:o a degree, as being able to throw traps predictively would help our traps land more pulses without being 100% melee (and thereby necessitating more stunbreak/utility options than a safer midrange style).

Ranged traps are of course superior from a pure mechanical standpoint, but the reason that the ranged traps were nixed in the first place is that when you're just throwing AoEs on top of other people, they essentially become indistinguishable from Necro Marks and are much less trap-like.

Personally, I'd rather have traps that still work like traps become viable, but I know that the idea of ranged trap casting is still something that some people would like to see return.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

Ranged traps are of course superior from a pure mechanical standpoint, but the reason that the ranged traps were nixed in the first place is that when you're just throwing AoEs on top of other people, they essentially become indistinguishable from Necro Marks and are much less trap-like.

Personally, I'd rather have traps that still work like traps become viable, but I know that the idea of ranged trap casting is still something that some people would like to see return.

You do have a point there, and I'm personally a bit mixed on the return of ranged traps myself. Perhaps a faster cast, larger radius, or a couple more pulses (or some combination thereof) would do the trick as well, without needing to revert to the just-like-all-other-ranged-aoe situation. I'd be okay with actually getting all 3 upgrades in exchange for longer cooldowns on traps. With Trapper's Expertise traited, my flame trap is 12s, and poison trap is 16s. Seeing those go back up to 15 and 20s respectively (for sPvP, possibly also for WvW) while getting a slight bump in cast time/radius/maybe 2 more pulses would be nice.

[InsaneQR.7412]

i wish throwable traps would been back at the menu and the spike trap on disable.

Together with trapoer runes this could gives a nice escape tool and also provide some ranged AoE.

[Downstate.4697]

I tried making a power trapper with frost trap. Boy was that a mistake. Love critting for 600 with full zerker and having them walk out after 2 ticks. Other than spike trap, the damage is poopy and not worth losing utilities for.

[Mokk.2397]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:I tried making a power trapper with frost trap. Boy was that a mistake. Love critting for 600 with full zerker and having them walk out after 2 ticks. Other than spike trap, the damage is poopy and not worth losing utilities for.

Ya . Traps won't do sweet FA with power build . Condi all the way . Go with spike and poison . And don't forget that Trapper's Expertise does not trigger cripple on Flame Trap . Been busted for months . Wouldn't be surprised they edit the tool tip instead of fixing Flame Trap

[Arheundel.6451]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Krispera.5087 said:If you played Traps since the beginning, you should know the ranger ones are unblockable.

@Fueki.4753 said:As long as Trapper runes exist in PvP, I don't want to see any buffs to traps.It'd cause even more players to pick up disgusting stealth builds.

Agree with removing Trapper Runes and then buff Ranger's Traps appropriately. Why is DH traps so oppressive and Ranger Traps need so much set up to hit.

Both DH and condi ranger rely on that rune to be remotely playable as they both lack proper disengage and survivability from utilities or trait lines without sacrificing all damage.

Not saying the runes aren't zero fun and awful to fight, but two builds absolutely rely on them.

A DH would still be more usable than a ranger when we talk with traps without using Trapper runes...a DH can still pull you in inside the traps