EoD looks so bad it's not even funny

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

I love what I've seen so far.

GW1 was always limited by its engine. No matter how good the concept art, the engine was always holding them back from fully realizing their vision of Cantha. Areas such as the Echovald Forest and the Jade Sea looked alright in GW1, but didn't fully reach the intended vision. Those same areas look much better in GW2, from what I've seen so far. Echovald Forest now actually looks like a massive forest. We can actually see the horizon in the Jade Sea area. And I suspect the Harvest Temple will resemble the original concept art far more closely than what we got in GW1 (the original concept art for it was way better than what we got). There is an astounding care for detail in the few previews we've gotten. The environment artists really outdid themselves.

And yes, things will also be different from GW1. I'm not stuck in the past, and Factions is still playable anytime I want to go back to it. There will be lots of new ideas, which I find exciting. The Siege Turtle mount looks like a ton of fun. And it sounds like they may be taking meta events and heart quests into an exciting new direction. I'm eager to see what they've got in store for us.

Truth be told, Factions was always my least favourite Guild Wars 'expansion'. I liked the setting, but I did not like the execution. It always felt a bit rushed and small to me. I'm looking forward to seeing it reimagined in GW2.

Honestly darlings, why all the negativity?

This. I remember Factions being hated by loads of GW1 players at the time due to the sprawling mess of Kaineng and the rather poorly told story and complaints about missions being too hard. GW2 was never going to emulate it, instead focusing on doing something completely different as it has for 10 years. 
 

My only major concern so far is we may only get four maps which is not really acceptable to me for an expac with such a long break since ls5 and the dross that ended with. Otherwise there is nothing I’m concerned about. 

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

What do you think of the changes posted about each Elite Specialization? They certainly seemed to pay attention to the feedback. 

You may think so, but only if you haven't been paying attention to the feedback they were supposedly acting upon.

Let's say, that in many cases the connection between the feedback and Anet's changes was... well... very weak. In some cases the feedback seemed to have been only very shallowly skimmed, without actually understanding it in-depth. In some other cases it got flat out ignored.

Catalyst changes went in the right direction, but still completely missed the core of the feedback. Spectre and Rev espec ones were based on some major misunderstandings about what the feedback was even about. And in case of Virtuoso devs just flat out ignored everything players were telling them.

And it's not like those are the only especs like that - just the more egregious cases.

Those are definitely not good examples of "paying attention" to feedback.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[witcher.3197]

5 hours ago, Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

Truth be told, Factions was always my least favourite Guild Wars 'expansion'. I liked the setting, but I did not like the execution. It always felt a bit rushed and small to me. I'm looking forward to seeing it reimagined in GW2.

Honestly darlings, why all the negativity?

You dislike something and now you're happy it's getting drastically changed.

People who liked the same thing you disliked are now unhappy with the changes.

Not that hard to comprehend.

Edited November 26, 2021 by witcher.3197

[Mad Queen Malafide.7512]

16 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

You dislike something and now you're happy it's getting drastically changed.

People who liked the same thing you disliked are now unhappy with the changes.

Not that hard to comprehend.

I feel that Factions never really reached its full potential. There were things about it that I liked, but it was much smaller in scale than I would have wanted, and the zones were all so densely packed with annoying mobs of enemies. You couldn't take 2 steps outside an area portal without being attacked by enemies. The story also wasn't very good.

But there were some things that I did like and it had a lot of potential. A potential that I think can be realized with the GW2 engine.

It seems strange to me that people get so upset, just because it looks different (especially over how green the jade is, of all things). Take your GW1 glasses off for just a moment and appreciate the wonderous world they've created for End of Dragons.  It is such a torrent of negativity, that frankly seems uncalled for.

I think it all looks very promising.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Mad Queen Malafide.7512

[Faridah.8431]

4 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

This. I remember Factions being hated by loads of GW1 players at the time due to the sprawling mess of Kaineng and the rather poorly told story and complaints about missions being too hard. GW2 was never going to emulate it, instead focusing on doing something completely different as it has for 10 years. 
 

My only major concern so far is we may only get four maps which is not really acceptable to me for an expac with such a long break since ls5 and the dross that ended with. Otherwise there is nothing I’m concerned about. 

You are right that most people hated Kaineng for navigation reasons (i.e. for many it was too maze like). I also agree that the Factions story was not the best showing for GW1. That said, what Factions did right was in its world building, lore, and the atmosphere they managed to evoke within each region. And to this day I know many people who say that the Jade Sea is their favorite region in the game. Personally I really enjoyed Kaineng City. It really was a unique take on a region for the type of game it was, and I feel they really managed to capture how you should feel in a region like that. Combined with the soundtrack, it was awesome.

[witcher.3197]

1 hour ago, Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

I feel that Factions never really reached its full potential. There were things about it that I liked, but it was much smaller in scale than I would have wanted, and the zones were all so densely packed with annoying mobs of enemies. You couldn't take 2 steps outside an area portal without being attacked by enemies. The story also wasn't very good.

But there were some things that I did like and it had a lot of potential. A potential that I think can be realized with the GW2 engine.

It seems strange to me that people get so upset, just because it looks different (especially over how green the jade is, of all things). Take your GW1 glasses off for just a moment and appreciate the wonderous world they've created for End of Dragons.  It is such a torrent of negativity, that frankly seems uncalled for.

I think it all looks very promising.

You're assuming GW1 looked the way it did because they couldn't realize their true vision due to the engine. That's where we disagree.

GW1 had a very strong art direction that many of us loved, and the setting of Cantha was both unique and great. It didn't need to be reimagined, and making everything bright, colorful, oversaturated, or "cute" (see new Tengu models) isn't some kind of improvement, it's a conscious design shift in a direction many of us are not satisfied with. Add to that how they killed off the Kurzicks/Luxons (you know, the factions in Guild Wars: Factions) and changed the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, now we have a region loosely based on Cantha that looks and feels nothing like Cantha.

The people who made GW1 look the way it did voiced their disagreement over creative differences with GW2 several times and eventually left Anet a few years ago. It's obvious that new Anet is changing things on purpose and even the original creators were dissatisfied with the game's new aesthetics.

[Monarc.9726]

11 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

What do you think of the changes posted about each Elite Specialization? They certainly seemed to pay attention to the feedback. 

I haven’t read all of the changes yet, but Guardian is my main and the Willbender changes did not mention changes to my biggest pain points for the spec, so we’ll see. I don’t think they addressed the fundamental problems, which I won’t get into here since there’s plenty of feedback on the Guardian forums already. 
 

Looking over the beta e-spec changes for WB some more, it actually reinforces my concerns, because they seemed to just change some numbers,  adjust traits and skills, but not really address the main concerns that would have involved more of a rework. Maybe there’s just not enough time and resources at this point to make any major fixes. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Monarc.9726

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

I feel that Factions never really reached its full potential. There were things about it that I liked, but it was much smaller in scale than I would have wanted, and the zones were all so densely packed with annoying mobs of enemies. You couldn't take 2 steps outside an area portal without being attacked by enemies. The story also wasn't very good.

Mobs: You could kill them once and they would be gone for good, a luxury we don't have in GW2's open world. 😉

Story: Not good?! What? It was a fantastic story. No GW2 story so far comes even close in quality. Nightfall was also so much better than PoF, but I have a feeling that the story quality gab between Factions and EoD will be huge.

4 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

GW1 had a very strong art direction that many of us loved, and the setting of Cantha was both unique and great. It didn't need to be reimagined, and making everything bright, colorful, oversaturated, or "cute" (see new Tengu models) isn't some kind of improvement, it's a conscious design shift in a direction many of us are not satisfied with. Add to that how they killed off the Kurzicks/Luxons (you know, the factions in Guild Wars: Factions) and changed the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, now we have a region loosely based on Cantha that looks and feels nothing like Cantha.

The people who made GW1 look the way it did voiced their disagreement over creative differences with GW2 several times and eventually left Anet a few years ago. It's obvious that new Anet is changing things on purpose and even the original creators were dissatisfied with the game's new aesthetics.

So much this! 👍

Edited November 26, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Faridah.8431]

30 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Mobs: You could kill them once and they would be gone for good, a luxury we don't have in GW2's open world. 😉

Story: Not good?! What? It was a fantastic story. No GW2 story so far comes even close in quality. Nightfall was also so much better than PoF, but I have a feeling that the story quality gab between Factions and EoD will be huge.

So much this! 👍

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Factions had a fantastic story. Although maybe more focus than Prophecies, I otherwise thought it was pretty weak in many aspects of it's execution.

What wasn't weak was the world building, underlying lore, and atmosphere they built around the story. Personally I thought some of the best for the franchise.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Makion.3457]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:23 PM, Debesyla.7102 said:

Wait did End of dragons launch today? How did you manage to do a review without playing it?

(Sarcasm) Aparently watching a sneak preview of 3 streams with all the assets hidden are enought to see how bad the dlc will look. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Altion.9576

[Mad Queen Malafide.7512]

17 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

You're assuming GW1 looked the way it did because they couldn't realize their true vision due to the engine. That's where we disagree.

It's really not up to discussion. The GW2 engine is capable of visuals that far exceed what the GW1 engine was capable of. That is going to lead to compromises, especially in regards to large areas. This is why the Echovald Forest in Factions barely looked like a forest. This may be why the Harvest Temple looked so different from the GW1 concept art.

Quote

GW1 had a very strong art direction that many of us loved, and the setting of Cantha was both unique and great. It didn't need to be reimagined, and making everything bright, colorful, oversaturated, or "cute" (see new Tengu models) isn't some kind of improvement, it's a conscious design shift in a direction many of us are not satisfied with.

Both games have strong art direction. GW2 simply has a different art direction from GW1. That much has been clear from launch. As a side note, technology and magi-tech has also been in the game since launch. Seems odd to complain about it with EoD.

Quote

Add to that how they killed off the Kurzicks/Luxons (you know, the factions in Guild Wars: Factions)

and changed the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, now we have a region loosely based on Cantha that looks and feels nothing like Cantha.

250 years have passed. Did you really expect those two factions to still be around after 250 years? GW1 Factions was all about the conflict between the Kurzicks and the Luxons, both in story and in gameplay. For example, players had to choose a side during the story, and we had pvp arenas that pitted Luxon players against Kurzick players (Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood). There even was a whole mechanic that allowed guilds to take control of certain outposts through pvp, and you could see shifting territories on the map. It was neat... do we need to repeat it?

That is simply not the direction End of Dragons is going into, and so that kind of nullifies the role of the Kurzicks and Luxon from a gameplay point of view as well. They are simply not important to the plot (as far as we know) and the gameplay.

Quote

The people who made GW1 look the way it did voiced their disagreement over creative differences with GW2 several times and eventually left Anet a few years ago. It's obvious that new Anet is changing things on purpose and even the original creators were dissatisfied with the game's new aesthetics.

That is a big assumption. They could have left for all manner of reasons (money, new jobs, the company itself, stress and overtime). The art direction of GW2 seems like a very unlikely reason for any of their departures.

Change is good. I don't need GW1 remade exactly as it was, and I love GW1.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Mad Queen Malafide.7512

[Randulf.7614]

12 hours ago, Faridah.8431 said:

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Factions had a fantastic story. Although maybe more focus than Prophecies, I otherwise thought it was pretty weak in many aspects of it's execution.

What wasn't weak was the world building, underlying lore, and atmosphere they built around the story. Personally I thought some of the best for the franchise.

I agree it had good world building and lore. It just didn’t translate to a well told story for me, despite having much of the elements to make one. Of all four campaigns, it’s the one I replayed the least and was the most forgettable. Weak in execution is a good way to sum it up. 

 

[Kayberz.5346]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:51 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

You may think so, but only if you haven't been paying attention to the feedback they were supposedly acting upon.

Let's say, that in many cases the connection between the feedback and Anet's changes was... well... very weak. In some cases the feedback seemed to have been only very shallowly skimmed, without actually understanding it in-depth. In some other cases it got flat out ignored.

Catalyst changes went in the right direction, but still completely missed the core of the feedback. Spectre and Rev espec ones were based on some major misunderstandings about what the feedback was even about. And in case of Virtuoso devs just flat out ignored everything players were telling them.

And it's not like those are the only especs like that - just the more egregious cases.

Those are definitely not good examples of "paying attention" to feedback.

Just because players give "feedback" doesn't mean that feedback is automatically the "correct" path

There are people whos feedback essentially amounts to "i dont like this, delete it and  do this instead" which in many cases isn't productive at all, and a lot of people seem to think that just because a certain class gets a new espec that the new spec automatically should appeal to them because they currently main that class, they have clear playstyle biases that potentially conflict with what the actual design goal of a new spec is and their feedback doesn't help get the spec where the devs want it to be.

 

[Mad Queen Malafide.7512]

Indeed. The negative voices are always the loudest, but not always the most reasonable.

It would be a mistake for Arena Net to make instant changes based on those few loud naysayers, while ignoring the silent majority. And some of the negative voices are even so negative, that you'd almost think a developer killed their pet dog or something.

End of Dragons is not Factions. It will never be Factions. But if you want to play Factions, you still can. The new vision of Cantha in GW2 was always going to be different from Cantha in GW1, and it was always going to defy your expectations. To me, it kind of is like listening to covers or remixes to some of your favourite songs. I don't dread the changes, I welcome them. I may not like everything I get, but I may be pleasantly surprised by some of it. And who knows, maybe I'll like some of it more than what I knew from Factions.

Sometimes a cover is better than the original work. I try to go into it with an open mind, with nostalgia goggles firmly put aside. So far, both the Echovald Forest, The Jade Sea, Fishing, Boats and Siege Turtles, all look like a lot of fun. I'm excited to explore Cantha all over again.

[Norbe.7630]

Well for me EoD is Fun...ny😁
I like Fishing.

 

[Blur.3465]

People voice their concerns over how saturated the colors are for a good reason.
It's called feedback; it also has nothing to do with 'nostalgia'. 
GW2 generally has a problem with too saturated colors, making it hard to look at. Most of the time I find my eyes watering and I have to make breaks between gaming sessions; as it bothers my eyes big time.

The green foliage in Shing Jea is over the top green, it doesn't look natural, it looks too bright and very much an eye-sore.
While I do like the idea of how lush and gorgeous it is, the colors are ruining that for me personally.

The Jade Sea is also TOO GREEN. I know there have been complaints about it; but it just looks strange and not at all like sea...
I mean we had amazing color palette for it in the Jade Fractal, why did ANet change that color? Why did they make it so so so green? 😧

Another complaint I have is with Echovald that looks too much like Maguuma (Dragonstand). I will reserve judgment for when I do experience the zone; but that's the impression I got from a video.

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the zones will look gorgeous (as always), but I always have complaints about how saturated colors are. 
I still can't stand being in Bloodstone, Bitterfrost Frontier, Ember Bay and Draconis Mons. These zones have the worst colors that just kill my eyes x_x
 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Blur.3465

[Astralporing.1957]

22 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Just because players give "feedback" doesn't mean that feedback is automatically the "correct" path

There are people whos feedback essentially amounts to "i dont like this, delete it and  do this instead" which in many cases isn't productive at all, and a lot of people seem to think that just because a certain class gets a new espec that the new spec automatically should appeal to them because they currently main that class, they have clear playstyle biases that potentially conflict with what the actual design goal of a new spec is and their feedback doesn't help get the spec where the devs want it to be.

 

Sure, feedback can be wrong, and you can ignore it, but in such case you do not say you acted upon it (while doing something exact opposite of it).

[Gibson.4036]

I reacted strongly to the color in Shing Jea, but I’ve enjoyed what they’ve shown of Echovald and most of Jade Sea (the zone, not the Sea itself) This has settled my nervousness that the art direction has veered entirely into candy land.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, feedback can be wrong, and you can ignore it, but in such case you do not say you acted upon it (while doing something exact opposite of it).

....but they did act on it. Just because they didn't address every post or complaint doesn't mean they didn't use player feedback.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Kayberz.5346]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, feedback can be wrong, and you can ignore it, but in such case you do not say you acted upon it (while doing something exact opposite of it).

"the devs didn't act on MY specific feedback which means they ignored ALL feedback"

[Norbe.7630]

6 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

"the devs didn't act on MY specific feedback which means they ignored ALL feedback"

"i wrote a feedback because i bought or will buy the expansion on MY money which means which means they don't listen to ALL feedbacks"

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

"i wrote a feedback because i bought or will buy the expansion on MY money which means which means they don't listen to ALL feedbacks"

Nobody ever acts according to ALL feedback. If that was a thing, the game would be everything and nothing at the same time, because -spoiler alert- different people feel differently about many things. Expecting devs to react to "ALL FEEDBACKS" makes no sense at all.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Norbe.7630]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody ever acts according to ALL feedback, if that was a thing, the game would be everything and nothing at the same time, because -spoiler alert- different people feel differently about different things. Expecting devs to reacat to "ALL FEEDBACKS" makes no sense at all.

Hmm, you're right they don't act to feedbacks at ALL.
They created a poll once. They a showed the results on what majority of feedbacks on what people wants.
Almost all people wanted to be heard, what did they do?
They asked people if its more beneficial to create and ingame voting system to know what people want or they will just do what SOME people think is beneficial to the game. The choose to didtch the ingame voting and proceed to do what SOME people wanted in game.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

Hmm, you're right they don't act to feedbacks at ALL.

No, they did act on feedback. They didn't act to "ALL FEEDBACK" and it's unreasonable for anyone to expect that -here or anywhere else.

Next time you respond, try not pretending I said something I didn't, otherwise what's the point of even quoting me.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[witcher.3197]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, they did act on feedback. They didn't act to "ALL FEEDBACK" and it's unreasonable for anyone to expect that -here or anywhere else.

Next time you respond, try not pretending I said something I didn't, otherwise what's the point of even quoting me.

Genuine question, what feedback did they act on or even acknowledged regarding the visuals?