This game isn't very new player friendly.

[lezbefriends.7516]

1 hour ago, costepj.5120 said:

I moved from WoW to GW about ten years ago. If I'd continued playing WoW during that time, I would have spent over £1000 on sub fees alone + whatever extra for expansions. Instead I've paid a total of £130 on everything aNet has ever released - all of GW1 and GW2 content. And what's more, I can carry on playing that content until the servers shut down, whereas my years of subscribing to WoW left me with nothing once I stopped.

That's why sub sounds so expensive - you pay so much more and end up with nothing.

In WoW you have mythic raids and dungeons. In GW2 you press 1. You get what you pay for.

[Vayne.8563]

6 minutes ago, Mortifera.6138 said:

In WoW you have mythic raids and dungeons. In GW2 you press 1. You get what you pay for.

We have dungeons and Fractals in Guild Wars 2.  I could care less about Mythic raids. I came here to get away from raiding. A lot of people feel like me. I am getting what I pay for. A game I like more. 🙂

[lezbefriends.7516]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We have dungeons and Fractals in Guild Wars 2.  I could care less about Mythic raids. I came here to get away from raiding. A lot of people feel like me. I am getting what I pay for. A game I like more. 🙂

Lol abandoned 2 dungeons. Have fun with that.

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Mortifera.6138 said:

Lol abandoned 2 dungeons. Have fun with that.

I do have fun with dungeons occasionally but I've liked fractals better since they came out.

[Lyssia.4637]

2 hours ago, Veridiano.8659 said:

<snipped for space, responding to all>

See, that's what has me confused about this thread.   My daughter has fooled around in GW2 for a couple of years, mostly for festivals, but only started playing "seriously" just this last year.  She loves the story, played straight through the main core story in weeks, and moved on.  She has intermittent LW chapters unlocked, but because you can buy them straight from the journal, there was never any confusion about what she had, or not.  She hits a chapter that's locked, it's "Mom, I need gems!" ("It's chores or gold farming, take your pick, kid!") A package with the LW seasons all together might be a convivence for me, as a long-time player subsidizing or gifting to a new player, but from a new player perspective, if you like the story enough to care, what you need is laid out in your journal, and if you like the story enough to care, you're likely used to using that journal.  So really, I can see new players that bought everything in one go looking at the journal and hitting an "ARGH" moment when they realized there was more to buy... but I can't see it being particularly confusing.  Knowing what you need and getting it is about as intuitive and straightforward as I can imagine.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Lyssia.4637
Typo

[Gibson.4036]

This “press 1” myth is ridiculous. Outside of low level zones or some open world bosses where you are being carried by those around you, press 1 gets you a whole lot of way pointing.

Or maybe I’m such a filthy casual I have to actually dodge, strafe, and use my blinds, weaknesses, and evade skills to survive?

Maybe if I git gud some day I’ll be able to spam 1 through the game.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Dye Shop.4871]

jeyaredubs.9348

I get what you mean with the story, but that's only if you really care about the story. I myself only do the story because I am forced to do so to get mastery points. My advice to new players is what I told a Youtuber, play in your own tempo and try not to feel the need to rush stuff because you can't run with the big groups. I however do feel like the Mounts should never have been allowed in the beginner area's. For getting help with HP's and Masterypoints...I used to do the runs, way before the mounts were available. My group became so huge, it took me around 6 hours to finish the run. With mounts you can do them in 2 hours or so. So yes new players who don't have mounts and stuff ready will be left behind. But if you do need help, there should still be players around willing to help. I haven't really done the runs anymore since the mounts, and I haven't really played alot in the last past 3 years, but if you need some help I probably still could do a few things. ( The old way, without mounts)

Edited October 14, 2021 by Dye Shop.4871
typo

[Embered.5089]

I can't tell if I've already replied to this or not without scrolling through the previous pages... and I don't want to scroll through the previous pages. It seems to be full of people attacking each other. So I'll just reply (again?)

I think that gw2 is very friendly to new players. By this, I mean the game itself. What might be less friendly is how the players decide what to do. Mounts make hero point trains much more efficient, so everyone requires them now. Why spend a whole day doing one run when you can spend 2 hours?

Newbies see people on mounts and feel a need for speed. I played core tyria and HoT before mounts came out. It was much more immersive and interesting back then. No one wants mounts to be disabled, though. Players would get real mad if they couldn't leap across core tyria maps or skyscale up HoT maps after taking the time to earn those mounts. Mounts would feel useless if they could only be ridden in PoF maps.

You can still gather a mountless hero point run. Just specify that in LFG. It might take longer than usual, but I believe that you'll get some people who are willing to help. Also, I want to mention that Zander does HoT hero point runs on foot. But everyone following him uses mounts. This is because Zander is so efficient with his foot movement that others can't keep up on foot, and thus his runs require mounts. But running that fast on foot is doable. Just need to fiddle with your build a bit. Some classes might be better at it than others.

As for the payment model, it is what the players asked for (as others have said). I personally prefer this model to others. I don't play subscription games anymore and "free" mmorpgs tend to be p2w. This is a good middle ground. Also, gw2 has gold->gem conversion. Those living world episodes that you're complaining about could be bought with in-game currency. I took a few long breaks and then would have to farm some gold to unlock what I missed. Given the variety and efficiency of gold farms, it wasn't tedious. Anet is also in the process of giving out one episode for free a week, although only The Icebrood Saga is left now. Don't complain that it's unfair to people who missed the freebies. That's the same thing as saying that you just want everything free, and it's spitting on anet's generosity. It's because of people who complain about the lack of free stuff or the quality of free stuff that I've stopped giving out free stuff to newbies in-game. Occasionally, I still do. Then I quickly remember why I stopped. People think that if I'm offering free stuff, then they're entitled to it or even better free stuff. No, that's not how it works.

I concur that GW2 is newb-friendly. It is the players who might make it less so sometimes, trading friendliness for efficiency. There are still plenty of people willing to help newbies in various things (myself included) so it's far from impossible to get what you want done. Reach out to the community and we will help you. You just have to keep an open mind, and remember that both the devs and players are humans who need to rest, eat, and sleep.

[Cuks.8241]

I think we have 2 sides here that are arguing different aspects. 

Its not that gw2 is an expensive game, at least I never argued that. Its very good value. 

The issue is that it is not upfront transparent with the bussiness model for the story. 

And yes upfront research solves this. But often complaints from newer players show that this could be improved. 

But only anet has the data on customer habits so maybe its not an issue at all. 

[yann.1946]

58 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I think we have 2 sides here that are arguing different aspects. 

Its not that gw2 is an expensive game, at least I never argued that. Its very good value. 

The issue is that it is not upfront transparent with the bussiness model for the story. 

And yes upfront research solves this. But often complaints from newer players show that this could be improved. 

But only anet has the data on customer habits so maybe its not an issue at all. 

I think this hits the nail on the head.

 

The business model is extremely fair, in the sense that it rewards some commitment to the game and the costs aren't high in comparison to the alternatives. 

 

But it's unclear to a new player, and can easily be made more transparent. 

[Lyssia.4637]

45 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

But it's unclear to a new player, and can easily be made more transparent. 

I totally agree with you, but... wasn't the OP a returning player bringing a new player in?  So the OP knew the content was there and could have passed that on to the totally new player.  I mean, in theory, you are totally right, but I'm back to not being quite sure what the problem is.  Wouldn't a totally, "grabbed it off the shelf" player - even a "trying the f2p" player - look at the journal and see the extra content as they are figuring out 1)how to play the game and 2)how much to invest in the game?

 

My impression from this thread and the others floating around right now like this is specifically a problem that comes up when long-time players are bringing new players in, not a "never played this game before and have no friends here" new player problem.  But I tend only to frequent this forum in bursts and miss a lot of threads, so feel free to correct me if that's incorrect.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Lyssia.4637
Edit: language to clarify a sentence

[Gehenna.3625]

12 minutes ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

I totally agree with you, but... wasn't the OP a returning player bringing a new player in?  So the OP knew the content was there and could have passed that on to the totally new player. 

That's not always the case though. LS2 was introduced mid 2014. So any player that left before that time wouldn't be aware of this. So by then the game was already out for 2 years essentially. 

[Lyssia.4637]

7 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That's not always the case though. LS2 was introduced mid 2014. So any player that left before that time wouldn't be aware of this. So by then the game was already out for 2 years essentially. 

Right, and that's fair enough, but HoT came out after that.  So at that point, it's essentially two players totally new to the later content, who would see in the journal that there's a living season there they need to purchase between when the returning player left and HoT.  Unless I'm missing something?

Edit: To Confused: I'm one of the people who "liked" the post above, so if those were retaliatory confuseds, you've got the wrong poster.  🤷‍♀️

Edited October 15, 2021 by Lyssia.4637

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

I think this hits the nail on the head.

 

The business model is extremely fair, in the sense that it rewards some commitment to the game and the costs aren't high in comparison to the alternatives. 

 

But it's unclear to a new player, and can easily be made more transparent. 

Fair.

[Firebeard.1746]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:15 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea, but those people playing every day also may have had to buy the game for $130 (50 for core, 50 for hot, 30 for PoF).

The problem here is that the game does not really emphasize the importance of Living Story so that people think they've bought the full game when they really haven't.

Yeah and I think they should just tie all the Living story that's before the current expansion to the previous expansion. I don't think there's a ton of value in what they do now and it's better to have more people that can play that content, because it increases its value. What they lose in story sales may easily be made up in player retention and gem sales when people don't feel like they've been gyped into buying the "full" game only to discover they can't get the dragon mount and rage quit. Sure some people might buy the stories, but I think newer players are always on the lookout for a gem store trap, and making it that obvious is bad. Not that this game really has any others....

Edited October 14, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Yeah and I think they should just tie all the Living story that's before the current expansion to the previous expansion. I don't think there's a ton of value in what they do now and it's better to have more people that can play that content, because it increases its value.

I think LS2 would be enough. Its not such a great value for money and it's just old now and often a bit annoying: bugs, tedious missions and slow npcs. Not much else besides story there. 

And it would bridge to Hot a bit better. The bridge can never be good without S1 but at least youre not half clueless till half of Hot who these people are and where that egg came from and why I have a freaking phone with asura in my head. 

[yann.1946]

4 hours ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

I totally agree with you, but... wasn't the OP a returning player bringing a new player in?  So the OP knew the content was there and could have passed that on to the totally new player.  I mean, in theory, you are totally right, but I'm back to not being quite sure what the problem is.  Wouldn't a totally, "grabbed it off the shelf" player - even a "trying the f2p" player - look at the journal and see the extra content as they are figuring out 1)how to play the game and 2)how much to invest in the game?

While in theory you are right, 

Systems should be made to correct human error, and such that it removes as many hurdles as reasonable to the person buying the content. 

4 hours ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

My impression from this thread and the others floating around right now like this is specifically a problem that comes up when long-time players are bringing new players in, not a "never played this game before and have no friends here" new player problem.  But I tend only to frequent this forum in bursts and miss a lot of threads, so feel free to correct me if that's incorrect.

That's more selection biase, then anything else. A new player hitting this roadblock and quitting is more likely not invested enough to post about it.

 

We are trying to judge the amount of players not playing the game because of this, and that's not data that the fora can provide. 

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I think we have 2 sides here that are arguing different aspects. 

Its not that gw2 is an expensive game, at least I never argued that. Its very good value. 

The issue is that it is not upfront transparent with the bussiness model for the story. 

And yes upfront research solves this. But often complaints from newer players show that this could be improved. 

But only anet has the data on customer habits so maybe its not an issue at all. 

This I agree with, and I've said so for a long time.  Anet needs to have a package that includes everything, clearly labeled and let consumers make an educated decision.

[Lyssia.4637]

You know what, never mind.  I made my point already.  No point in being drawn into debate for the sake of argument.

Edit: I still haven't dropped any confused emojis in this thread, Confused.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Lyssia.4637

[Dante.1508]

If i were a new player these days i'd have dropped Guildwars 2 in a heartbeat.. Luckily after 9 years i got a lot of the game done and cheaply.. Things that were relatively easy at release like crafting and leveling, were ok.. Now a days, missing so much content and how much they made GW2 a tedious grind and with raids and fractals even wvw..  i'd have left for sure.

To this day i still have no skyscale and i bought my legendaries.. No chance in hell i'd ever grind those ever.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Dante.1508

[Rasimir.6239]

13 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I don't think there's a ton of value in what they do now and it's better to have more people that can play that content, because it increases its value. What they lose in story sales may easily be made up in player retention and gem sales when people don't feel like they've been gyped into buying the "full" game only to discover they can't get the dragon mount and rage quit

What I do think is that there are people at ANet who's job it is to check the game's statistics and make informed decisions about what parts of the content to monetize and how that leads to a good balance between player retention and studio funding.

 

What I don't think is that there are armchair economists on the forums that have the necessary data to make any informed decisions about whether different monetization would help or hurt the game as a whole, beyond the likes or dislikes of individual players or small groups.

[Rasimir.6239]

17 hours ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

"Mom, I need gems!" ("It's chores or gold farming, take your pick, kid!")

I wish I had thought of that, I wouldn't have bugged my kids to log in regularly at times when they were hardly playing 😉

[Gehenna.3625]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:03 PM, Lyssia.4637 said:

Right, and that's fair enough, but HoT came out after that.  So at that point, it's essentially two players totally new to the later content, who would see in the journal that there's a living season there they need to purchase between when the returning player left and HoT.  Unless I'm missing something?

Well there are situations where people might've played through HoT and got the LS2 chapters for free and not realise that if you'd come late to the party that you would be charged for them. Also if you haven't played for many years, you might've simply forgotten that it was that way. I'm really wondering why people expect returning players to have a perfect memory of the past.

On 10/14/2021 at 8:03 PM, Lyssia.4637 said:

Edit: To Confused: I'm one of the people who "liked" the post above, so if those were retaliatory confuseds, you've got the wrong poster.  🤷‍♀️

No worries, I've liked your post in return. I don't really care about the "confused" emotes. I just read them as actually confused and that they don't like my posts because they don't get them lol.

[flog.3485]

Seems to me the big issue is that, as much as GW2 needs to sell these additional packs of story, purchasing a story in order isn’t just possible.

 

The best solution would be then to offer some purchase options that allow one new player to start a story and then finish it without needing to spend additional money, albeit the problem with season 1 obviously. Therefore, why not just offer bundles of 1 expansion + 1 living story as a standard price ?

For example you would get:

-living story 2 + HoT for 40$=The Story of Mordremoth

-living story 3 + PoF for 40$=Magic Going Wild
-small exception here: season 4 + season 5 the Icebrood saga=Aurenes’ Fate

[Rasimir.6239]

50 minutes ago, flog.3485 said:

Therefore, why not just offer bundles of 1 expansion + 1 living story as a standard price ?

Reasons I could think off of the top of my head:

1. PoF and HoT are bundled. Offering them in different, separate bundles would only make the purchase options more confusing
2. Living World seasons require the preceeding expansion and its masteries to be able to play map and story. You could make a case for bundling HoT + season 3 or PoF + season 4, but that wouldn't help any of the people complaining that they're missing the context of the preceeding story
3. Living World episodes can be unlocked in-game via gold to gem exchange. I strongly suspect that if you offer them prominently for real money on the purchase page, all you'd do is replace the "living world seasons is hidden cost" threads on the forum with "living world seasons for real money is a rip-off since you could've unlocked them in-game, too".

It all comes down to how much and how little information on the purchase page is the right mix. For every person that is missing information (but doesn't bother to research beyond the purchase page) there's another person that is confused by too much information up-front.

 

Personally I prefer less information and easy purchasing models, but then I'm one of the people that like to research before purchasing anything. As such, I appreciate the non-bloated purchase model this game offers over some of its competitors, but I can see that other people prefer different approaches.