[Feedback] How i took the largest hit to my opinion about the game, since returning - Boreal Bags

[Aerensiniac.3584]

46 minutes ago, Klowdy.3126 said:

This sounds like a personal opinion, and not the general consensus. I don't feel that way at all, and it seems most (if not all) of the other posters don't agree with your point of view. I am sorry you feel this way, but don't frame the situation like the playerbase has given you the okay to lobby them against the devs. I know people with multiple accounts that make that achievement their first, because they enjoy what is involved, and why not. 

Just like i said to Brave Mallyki: Im not going to argue with someone who thinks that buying a car for 100 grand or buying the exact same car for 250 grand is a difference of "how to play the game". I'll just let your statement speak for you.
I have outlined the core problem several times. If you think that achievements are supposed to make you pay for items at 3 times their value, then i'll leave you to that "consensus" of yours. Enjoy it.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Aerensiniac.3584

[AgentMoore.9453]

8 minutes ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Im not going to argue with someone who thinks that buying a car for 100 grand or buying the exact same car for 250 grand is a difference of "how to play the game".

So you're just gonna ignore the fact that the 32-slot Boreal Trunk is:

- Optional (and not even in the cute way, you literally don't need this - it's the sports car of inventory bags)
- The cheapest 32-slot bag currently available
- Just one of many inventory bag options
- Obtainable by playing the game at whatever pace/schedule you want
- Part of an achievement chain that awards many other things like weapon skins, armor, other bags, useful map currencies, and a legendary crafting material

Because you can get another, smaller bag (or bags, multiple) elsewhere in the game for less?

You're comparing the purchase of a car to the purchase of a car that comes with a garage and the house it's attached to.

This is why people are so confused by your anger; you're acting like the fact that this bag exists is a personal insult to you just because there are other inventory options out there and discarding all the other stuff that comes with the Boreal Trunk because you personally don't value it. Found a cheaper/faster way to meet your inventory needs? Cool. Do whatever that is - it doesn't make the Boreal Trunk a scam and it doesn't make the people who find them useful idiots.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Why pay 400 gems for a bag slot.  I recommend waiting for them to go on sale for 280 gems.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Just like i said to Brave Mallyki: Im not going to argue with someone who thinks that buying a car for 100 grand or buying the exact same car for 250 grand is a difference of "how to play the game". I'll just let your statement speak for you.

It's not the "exact same car". You're complaining that it might be cheaper to buy a garage space and a second cheap car than a luxury one. And yet people do keep buying Maybachs and Rolls-Royces

1 hour ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

I have outlined the core problem several times. If you think that achievements are supposed to make you pay for items at 3 times their value, then i'll leave you to that "consensus" of yours. Enjoy it.

Except that this achievement you bring up does not make you do that. You get a recipe. You don't have to use it. You craft the bag only if you think it's worth it. If you happen to think otherwise, you're free to go for bag slot unlock. Or just not buy anything at all and deal with 20-slot bags in initial slots. Or 18-slot ones, if you think that 2-slot difference also is overpriced.

You might also remind yourself of two things: First, the achievement is not about bag recipe - it is merely an incidental byproduct. Second, it's actually the cheapest of all the available 32-slot bag options.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Redfeather.6401]

It is way too grindy for me to care about. I left and people said to me good riddance, but honestly if you stick around you are not living life. This game is sucking the life out of things.

[genjonah.1253]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not sure I would say the logic 'breaks' considering we know Anet wants our cash. Naturally, it makes sense it costs more to make it ingame than it does to GS it. At least to me it does. 

Let's think of this specific example in a different way ... Anet has ALWAYS monetized bank and bag slots ... so from my perspective, enabling the ability to craft 32 slot bags is actually pretty generous of them. 

ANet, offering a significant bonus as part of a different achievement, in the midst of a game they offer for free, has a way to get a completely optional bonus quality of life upgrade that has an option of doing so completely through gameplay but also the route of ACTUALLY PAYING THE DEVELOPERS?!?

 

SKRREEEEEEEEE! EVIL CAPITALISM!!! GREEDY MONSTERS!

[genjonah.1253]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by genjonah.1253
Disregard, double post

[Brave Mallyki.1563]

2 hours ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Im not going to argue with someone who thinks that buying a car for 100 grand or buying the exact same car for 250 grand is a difference of "how to play the game". I'll just let your statement speak for you.

That is a total false equivalence. You are comparing a whole (the car) to a part (a single reward from an achievement chain).

But, let’s try to play with that example: There are so many factors that go into determining the value of a car. First attempt. One person could buy the car right off the factory floor and pay 250 grand for it, then some years later another person buys it for a depreciated value of 100 grand due to there now being mileage on the car and maybe some damage. But, that example doesn’t work here. Let’s try another. A car is put up for auction and one person values the car at 100 grand, while another values it at 250 grand. That’s a little closer, but doesn’t work. Why doesn’t it work? Because, the car is not analogous to the 32-bag, since you are saying there is another option to obtain more inventory space.

A better example is: Do I want to buy another two-seater car and hitch it to my other two-seater car or spend a little bit more, get rid of my two-seater and buy a six-seater car. (Thinking about a Miata being towed by another Miata is kind of humorous)

You seem to want it broken down monetarily, so I’ll do that for you. Here is the cost analysis at the time of this post. According to the wiki, crafting a Reinforced Boreal Trunk will cost you 154g 26s 26c. According to GW2Spidy, the conversion of gold to gems is 26g 47s for 100 gems. So to get 400 gems you would need 105g 88s. Searching for the cheapest 20-slot bag came up with the Simple Boreal Canteen, which costs 10g 10s 11c. In total, you would be spending 115g 98s 11c to get a new bag slot and 20-slot bag. Which is cheaper than the Reinforced Boreal Trunk. But wait, the Reinforced Boreal Trunk has 32 slots, while the Simple Boreal Canteen only has 20 slot. So, let’s find the cost per slot. Cost per slot for the Simple Boreal Canteen is 5g 79s 91c, and the cost per slot for the Reinforced Boreal Trunk is 4g 82s 07c. Whaaaaaa!? The Reinforced Boreal Trunk is a better deal!? Crazy.

Yes, the Bag Slots Expansion have gone on sale before, but that doesn’t mean that they will again or for the same discount. If you weren’t wanting to wait to expand your inventory space, right now the Reinforced Boreal Trunk would be the best option.

What I was trying to convey in my original response is that the achievements offer other rewards than just the 32-slot bag. As a skin collector, AP chaser, and someone working on Frostfang at the time, the three bags that were rewarded for doing the achievement chain was icing on the cake.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Brave Mallyki.1563

[Kraggy.4169]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:01 PM, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

My problem is that it directly sets the store against gameplay in the most destructive way possible.

Standard F2P marketing: design the game with explicit pain points then sell the ointment to ease the pain in the Store .. GW2 only differs from that kind of F2P in that it's B2P which makes it an even more egregious design philosophy here.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Kraggy.4169

[Kayberz.5346]

Tldr:

OP wanted more bag space and didn't do research into how to acquire more bag space in the most cost effective way, they perused achievements that award a recipe  to craft cheap 32 slot bags, which are the largest bags in the game. 

OP then discovered that you could purchase additional bag slots for a character in the gem store (max 5) which would give the OP more inventory slots for the amount of gold spent than if they simply upgraded their current bags into 32 slot bags

OP then got overly emotional because they spent more gold than they needed in order to simply increase their inventory space and is accusing anet of "scamming" players with this achievement because they blindly perused this luxury achievement without seeing if there was a more cost effective option available first. 

 

 

Its essentially the equivalent of buying the single biggest available harddrive on the market for your PC at a premium price because you needed more space only to find out afterwards you could have just bought another cheap 1 terabyte hard drive and connected it to one of the extra slots in your PC. After discovering this you then claim the store you bought the harddrive from scammed you rather than acknowledging that you simply made a personal mistake purchasing something you didn't need for your specific needs

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[Cuks.8241]

3 hours ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Just like i said to Brave Mallyki: Im not going to argue with someone who thinks that buying a car for 100 grand or buying the exact same car for 250 grand is a difference of "how to play the game". I'll just let your statement speak for you.
I have outlined the core problem several times. If you think that achievements are supposed to make you pay for items at 3 times their value, then i'll leave you to that "consensus" of yours. Enjoy it.

Again you're way too worked up about the bag. The guy you quoted didn't even mention the bag, only the achievement.

I bet people would go for the achievement even if the bag wouldn't be part of the reward. People would go for achiev even if the only thing it would bring would be AP. There are people that hoard stuff or buy expensive stuff just because it has unique icon or name while it has no useful application. Just so it sits in their inventory.

Sure there are plenty of incentives in the game that lead you to the gem shop. This is not something new, or hidden agenda, it's how developers get money. Sure some moves were bad, especially in the recent past (build templates and ARC templates) but this is far from it in my opinion. 

Actually when I saw these achievs and all the stuff I thought them generous compared to other expensive achievs that get you nothing but AP.

[Klowdy.3126]

1 hour ago, Kraggy.4169 said:

Standard F2P marketing: design the game with explicit pain points then sell the ointment to ease the pain in the Store .. GW2 only differs from that kind of F2P in that it's B2P which makes it an even more egregious design philosophy here.

But everything can be earned by simply playing the game, and waiting for a good exchange rate. I regularly buy 100-200 gems for no reason other than the exchange for gold to gems is good, then buy things as I want them. This is actually one of the better games for buying things from the cash shop, with zero cash involved.

[Handsel.2891]

It's amazing how some of you can't see the difference between bag slots and bags and that the price of a slot should not be incorporated into the price of the bag. The slot doesn't give you inventory space. That's the bag. The slot gives you space to put your bags into. Whatever sized bag you put into a slot, the slot doesn't care. You can fill them all up with  4-slot bags or 32-slot ones. The difference will be massive, but it's not the slot's fault. Also, you have a very finite amount of slots you can buy for a character, but you can buy as many bags as your heart's desire.

What if I buy a bag slot to put a 4-slot bag into it? How does that compare to the price of crafting a 24-slot bag to replace an already in-use 20-slot bag? The price for the larger bag is much cheaper than the bag slot.

What if I buy a bag slot for 400 gems to put a 32-slot bag into it that I just crafted for 250g? How does that relate to OP's example.

What if I have all 10 available slots unlocked on my character? Suddenly the price of a slot doesn't mean anything to me, since I can't buy any more. What about the comparison, then?

[Klowdy.3126]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Tldr:

OP wanted more bag space and didn't do research into how to acquire more bag space in the most cost effective way, they perused achievements that award a recipe  to craft cheap 32 slot bags, which are the largest bags in the game. 

OP then discovered that you could purchase additional bag slots for a character in the gem store (max 5) which would give the OP more inventory slots for the amount of gold spent than if they simply upgraded their current bags into 32 slot bags

OP then got overly emotional because they spent more gold than they needed in order to simply increase their inventory space and is accusing anet of "scamming" players with this achievement because they blindly perused this luxury achievement without seeing if there was a more cost effective option available first. 

 

 

Its essentially the equivalent of buying the single biggest available harddrive on the market for your PC at a premium price because you needed more space only to find out afterwards you could have just bought another cheap 1 terabyte hard drive and connected it to one of the extra slots in your PC. After discovering this you then claim the store you bought the harddrive from scammed you rather than acknowledging that you simply made a personal mistake purchasing something you didn't need for your specific needs

 

 

And thing thing with all that is, if you want the maximum amount of bag space, you still have to get all the slots anyway, AND fill them with 32 slot bags, so he's gonna need to do both in the end. He's complaining about the midway point. 

[DarcShriek.5829]

17 minutes ago, MikeG.6389 said:

It's amazing how some of you can't see the difference between bag slots and bags and that the price of a slot should not be incorporated into the price of the bag. The slot doesn't give you inventory space. That's the bag. The slot gives you space to put your bags into. Whatever sized bag you put into a slot, the slot doesn't care. You can fill them all up with  4-slot bags or 32-slot ones. The difference will be massive, but it's not the slot's fault. Also, you have a very finite amount of slots you can buy for a character, but you can buy as many bags as your heart's desire.

What if I buy a bag slot to put a 4-slot bag into it? How does that compare to the price of crafting a 24-slot bag to replace an already in-use 20-slot bag? The price for the larger bag is much cheaper than the bag slot.

What if I buy a bag slot for 400 gems to put a 32-slot bag into it that I just crafted for 250g? How does that relate to OP's example.

What if I have all 10 available slots unlocked on my character? Suddenly the price of a slot doesn't mean anything to me, since I can't buy any more. What about the comparison, then?

Technically the new bag slot does give you more inventory space because it comes with an 8 slot bag.

[Handsel.2891]

19 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Technically the new bag slot does give you more inventory space because it comes with an 8 slot bag.

Well, I stand utterly corrected, sir.

[fatihso.7258]

Imagine kittening about 32 slot bag cost over bag slot unlock. OP you have way to go and time to alter how you think. I won't even bother explaining at all, others probably did or going to.

Edited November 4, 2021 by fatihso.7258

[robertthebard.8150]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:15 AM, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

This approach just baffles me.
Im playing games since 1990, my first pc was a 286 XT and progressively i played through everything you can imagine from the first doom, duke nukem, command and conquer, etc, but never once have i met an online game or an mmo, even with scumbags such as EA games, which would put literal game content in the game for the detriment of the players.

I mean this is a complete new for me, and you serve it with the first sentence "i dont understand the problem".
You literally proceed to describe the problem.
You have "achievements" (apparently this word is an ironical joke inside guild wars 2) which by your own admission, makes players lose out on things.
Thats not what the word "achievement" means?
Thats not what the gameplay concept behind "achievement" means?
Thats not how "achievements" work? Thats not how any of this is supposed to work?

Well, at least now i know from your post that this is normal for guild wars 2.
Thats.... nice to know i guess... aside from the fact that i will need a few hours to internalize the idea that games exist where achievements are detriments, and that this is viewed as a normal thing by the players... that... is brand new to me, ill admit.

As some have pointed out, it's not a detriment.  Even with a solid mix of 18 and 20 slot bags that I'm currently running, and still having one slot that I could unlock, I'm not feeling any pressure to have 32 slot bags.  This despite only having 3 shared slots.  If I decided that I needed to further expand them, that's a decision that I made, and it won't be because I absolutely have to have it, but because I decided that I wanted it.  I think, for example, that I have the "spend 1,000 gold" achievement.  I got it buying items to make 20 slot bags from a vendor.  I got the gold by playing the game.  I didn't do gem conversion, although that's really not an issue as far as I'm concerned, because I got my gold playing the game.

 

I bought the expansions, and LW seasons 2 and 3.  I have spent a few dollars here and there on my bank, crafting storage and the inventory expansion slots that I have purchased.  However, if I compare that expenditure to what I spent keeping two accounts active in DDO for 7 years, the money I've spent here is a drop in a very large bucket.  The DDO expense is 240 dollars a year, for 7 years, for both accounts.  This excludes the expansions that I have purchased there, that's just keeping my subs active.  I haven't spent 240 dollars here.  Where's the detriment?

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Can threads be requested for closure? Im pretty tired of people who wont read, just keep on repeating the same arguments over and over again even tho i answered them 3 times.
I support the developers, i didnt speak out against the cash shop, i didnt ask for free items, nor whatever the putrid f else you want to read into my words from the top of your head.

One last time for you and the rest of the circus here:
I stated a simple fact.
Any new player, or just in general, any player who did not unlock bag slots yet on their character (which most people are generally NOT inclined to do since the are char bound while your bank tabs and resource expansion are not) will face an achievement here that is detrimental to them, because they are "achieving" the option to pay 2 to 3 times more for a third of the bag space they would get for the same amount of gold.

If this is such a MASSIVELY complex problem for you to comprehend, here, let me try it for you in baby's first language:
- achievements are not supposed to scam you
- this achievement is designed badly

Noticed how there is no "screw anet for having a shop" and "how dare they charge money" in there?
Good, now follow your observant little nogging down that path and figure the f out what that means.

If any mod is reading this, please close the topic, it has become a repetitive cesspit cause people obviously wont go through the effort of reading every comment and response which has been made over 3 pages.

It is not tho since 32 is a bigger bag then 20, if they dont want to open anothe bag then getting a bag expansion for 400 gems is not something they are going to do.

So that 32 slot bag is still almost dubble the space then the 20 and can be moved to another character if you wish.

[kharmin.7683]

18 minutes ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Can threads be requested for closure?

You can use the Report option on your own post to request a thread lock.  It's up to the mods at that point.

[Sigmoid.7082]

27 minutes ago, Aerensiniac.3584 said:

Can threads be requested for closure? Im pretty tired of people who wont read, just keep on repeating the same arguments over and over again even tho i answered them 3 times.
I support the developers, i didnt speak out against the cash shop, i didnt ask for free items, nor whatever the putrid f else you want to read into my words from the top of your head.

One last time for you and the rest of the circus here:
I stated a simple fact.
Any new player, or just in general, any player who did not unlock bag slots yet on their character (which most people are generally NOT inclined to do since the are char bound while your bank tabs and resource expansion are not) will face an achievement here that is detrimental to them, because they are "achieving" the option to pay 2 to 3 times more for a third of the bag space they would get for the same amount of gold.

If this is such a MASSIVELY complex problem for you to comprehend, here, let me try it for you in baby's first language:
- achievements are not supposed to scam you
- this achievement is designed badly

Noticed how there is no "screw anet for having a shop" and "how dare they charge money" in there?
Good, now follow your observant little nogging down that path and figure the f out what that means.

If any mod is reading this, please close the topic, it has become a repetitive cesspit cause people obviously wont go through the effort of reading every comment and response which has been made over 3 pages.

People clearly understand your point. They just think you are wrong.