Why some of us don't pre-purchase things

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

And digital goods have development costs that cannot be offset until product release, or preorders...

 

 

You can still get this stuff after the expansion has released.  I did that exact thing with Heart of Thorns.  Also, if you think the bonus stuff is worth the money, then buy it.  If not, then that bonus stuff just wasn't worth it.   I usually pass on collector edition stuff because I just don't place much value on all the bonus extras.

 

So, if the bonus stuff isn't worth it to you, then you're not missing anything.  

Also, specify the instances of "power creep" in GW2 that is due to preorders and deluxe/ultimate editions.  As far as I can see, it's some gems that are discounted, cosmetic items, and a lounge pass.  What "pwer creep?"

 

Hyperbole only weakens the point you are trying to make.  Same with the exaggeration of objective truth.

 

Right, so, your first point is a management issue that had nothing to do with your original point.  Anyways, a business gets funding from investors to produce a product to sell.  They should not need funding from customers to get the product out.

As for getting the current pre-order rewards after release, it doesn't matter.  FOMO is still being used here and that's an exploitative business tactic to get people to purchase things they otherwise wouldn't.

Your third point misses the fact that I was speaking generally.  Most, if not all other preorders sell some form of power or headstart for buying whatever game early.  In terms of GW2, you buy a $30 expansion (This is what they eventually drop to) for $79.99 to get $50 worth of gems and some fluff items for what may not even be interesting.  Just look at how much push back there were to both HoT and PoF with how far ANet went in one direction then backwards in another.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Your logic is flawed. 

The product will be what it is whether you pre-order or not.

 

If you want the product to be a "finished result" you would advocate everyone to buy it a month after release when the "bugs" have been worked out of it. But that wouldn't work either because it is the players' feedback that allows the devs to tweak the game and make it better.

 

The only thing pre-ordering gives ANET is an infusion of funds to draw interest upon. 

[Rogue.8235]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Right, so, your first point is a management issue that had nothing to do with your original point.  Anyways, a business gets funding from investors to produce a product to sell.  They should not need funding from customers to get the product out.

That is not how the world works at all.

Venture capitalists only invest in businesses that have proven financials.  They want to see your past 10 years and forecasts for the next 10.  And even then, venture capitalists are only used for massive growth projects.

If you ever start a business and fund it by selling all your shares left and right, you won't own the business at all.  Equity financing is not the way to go for normal business operations.  

Also, you show zero knowledge of R&D industries.  Seriously, sell out ownership of your company every time you make a product?  I can't go on anymore this is just beyond ridiculous.

Oh, please tell me if you start  a business.  I'll be sure to invest all the money you need.  And I'm sure you'll sell me controlling interest, so bye.  Don't need you I'll get someone competent to manage the firm.

 

Edit: Angel investors only deal with seed rounds and Series A.  This is, on average, $50k.  You do not see six figures thrown around in the angel investor world, much less anything series B and beyond.  If you don't know what a seed round is or Series investments, you don't understand the rudimentary basics of new venture strategies or venture investments.

 

Another thing, ArenaNet is owned by NCSoft.  Investors cannot just bypass the parent company and takeover a subsidiary without some serious legal ramifications.  A tender offer is also required.  If you don't know what a tender offer is, this is another basic investment term that is below the fundamental level.

 

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

As for getting the current pre-order rewards after release, it doesn't matter.  FOMO is still being used here and that's an exploitative business tactic to get people to purchase things they otherwise wouldn't.

Umm, what does it matter when you get something?  You get it now if you want or you get it later if you want.  Same thing for the same money?  Is your existence so tied to external validation that it matters what other people think of when you get stuff that you want?  (I know the answer is no, just pointing out that the very act of a preorder as a predatory tactic is beyond ridiculous).

As for other people falling for this.... I don't know what to say to that.  It's a mindset I commonly see in toddlers and elementary school-aged children but not any adult I know.

Oh and dogs do this too.  They really get upset about things like this.

 

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Your third point misses the fact that I was speaking generally.  Most, if not all other preorders sell some form of power or headstart for buying whatever game early.  In terms of GW2, you buy a $30 expansion (This is what they eventually drop to) for $79.99 to get $50 worth of gems and some fluff items for what may not even be interesting.  Just look at how much push back there were to both HoT and PoF with how far ANet went in one direction then backwards in another.

What other companies do have no bearing on ArenaNet.   Again nuance, context, etc.   Are you incapable of separating the actions of different entities?  Or do you always lump everyone's actions together and blame everyone for doing it?

 

Example, people on the internet proliferate outrageously dumb conspiracy theories.  You're a person on the internet.  You must be spouting some weird conspiracy instead of actually discussing something sensible.

What do other people on the internet have to do with you?  Nothing.

But they are on the internet just like you so..... reasons and hand waving and I can equate you to them.

Other video game companies make video games like ArenaNet so ArenaNet is responsible for the actions of other video game companies because video games and reasons and stuff.  Instead of discussing the relevant and specific topic at hand you instead rely on generalizations of the actions of entities that have no bearing on this topic.  We're talking about preordering End of Dragons from ArenaNet.  What EA and others do has no bearing on deciding to preorder End of Dragons from ArenaNet.

Again, what other people on the internet do has no bearing on what you, a person on the internet, are discussing here.

I hope you have a better grasp on the fundamentally flawed logic you're imposing with this false equivalency.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Rogue.8235

[Ashen.2907]

The nice thing is that you do not have to pre-purchase. No one will come to your house and threaten to kill your goldfish if you don't. Meanwhile others CAN pre-purchase if they so desire. Everyone gets to pay for the game when they want. Yay.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Ashen.2907

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Right, so, your first point is a management issue that had nothing to do with your original point.  Anyways, a business gets funding from investors to produce a product to sell.  They should not need funding from customers to get the product out.

As for getting the current pre-order rewards after release, it doesn't matter.  FOMO is still being used here and that's an exploitative business tactic to get people to purchase things they otherwise wouldn't.

Your third point misses the fact that I was speaking generally.  Most, if not all other preorders sell some form of power or headstart for buying whatever game early.  In terms of GW2, you buy a $30 expansion (This is what they eventually drop to) for $79.99 to get $50 worth of gems and some fluff items for what may not even be interesting.  Just look at how much push back there were to both HoT and PoF with how far ANet went in one direction then backwards in another.

The pushback has very little to do with anything in my opinion.

An MMO is something that takes a long time to develop. Same with an expansion. Investors don't generally invest in NcSoft because they care about any one game, or even Guild Wars 2 in particular.  Investors are looking on return on the dollar. 

If a company is going to get more money sooner by selling the game earlier, that's a benefit to investors who don't want to wait.  Are they more likely to invest in a company that has higher numbers or lower numbers?  It's not about if the game is good, it's about the ability to sell.  This is true of books, of movies, of pretty much anything. Some of the best written books never made the best seller list and some pretty badly written books have.   Celebrity cookbooks aren't anything more than a way to seperate consumers from their money. A good cookbook is worth a lot more than a celebrity one.

 

Saying that business gets funding from investors to produce a product to sell is at least naïve.  Business get funding from investors because investors believe they can make money by investing. They could care how good the product is or how that money comes, as long as they make money.  A good product is not a guarantee money will be made and a bad product is not a guarantee money will be lost, as sad as that is to say.

Showing the investors that people are preordering though is something that will get more investors to invest.  Which brings in more money for the company. Which brings in more investors.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

What's the deal with the 'expansions drop to $30 from $79.99 with $50 of Gems'?  They don't 'drop to' $30, they are offered at Standard prices $30, Deluxe prices $55 and Ultimate prices $80...right from the start, and stay that way.  One shouldn't make stuff up to 'sell their point'. 

[Teratus.2859]

I agree with you OP, I do not care for the pre purchasing concept in general.

However there are is a very very small minority of games/companies that I will make an exception for because I am invested in the continued existence of the franchise and they have earned my trust as a customer.
Gw2 I'm happy to say is one of those games so I will gladly pre purchase it's expansions because I know that regardless of how much I enjoy them post release, I would still rather have them than not.

There are more than a few companies out there that I would never pre purchase games from though.. and a good few of them that I haven't supported in years in protest to bad business methods or just complete disrespect/disregard for the franchises they control and the fanbases of them.

There are also some companies I haven't supported in over a decade now and never will again under any circumstances because I find them morally reprehensible and a stain on this entire industry.
Don't even need to name names on those ones, most people can easily guess which companies they are XD
 

[Skorpis.4372]

I have pre-purchase only one game. Altghrough I was not disapointed I will never do it again. Bicause many trust worthy game making companys have failed these past few years. I do not trust any of them. Even gw2.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I think the linked image also illustrates the opposite.

Specially a game like GW2 without monthly fees require a lot of investment. most of the costs are made before release while most revenue starts afterwards. When buying before hand, you ensure them from revenue enabling them to make more investments to this release. 
Obviously, you do so at your own risk. I personally make such a decission based on my experiences with Arenanet and not with other companies. My experiences with Arenanet are good.

[Raizel.1839]

15 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Eh with the current trend in gaming i can see why OP is upset, and people can do what they want doesn't mean they can't be criticised for allowing TrIpLe AaA take their money and give them shoddy product while lying about it

No that's exactly the point. They can't be criticized! They are free to spend their money whatever they want and you have no right to criticize their choice. 

You can criticize the product, the company, but not customer's choices, because these do not concern anyone other than the customer himself.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Raizel.1839

[Ultramex.1506]

19 minutes ago, Raizel.1839 said:

No that's exactly the point. They can't be criticized! They are free to spend their money whatever they want and you have no right to criticize their choice. 

You can criticize the product, the company, but not customer's choices, because these do not concern anyone other than the customer himself.

And thing continue to be the same, people give money early, products are shoddy, people complain then back to square one. Really, both side are at fault here

[JustTrogdor.7892]

14 hours ago, Game of Bones.8975 said:

The only thing pre-ordering gives ANET is an infusion of funds to draw interest upon. 

 

Well it gives NCSoft funds.  Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft.   With that said, while the money goes to NCSoft funds earned from the games they own will most likely help them determine the development budgets for those games going forward. 

As for prepruchase I don't care if others do so or don't.  Everyone has their reasons and it's their money.  As for me, this is the first GW2 expansion I have not prepurchased and I won't.   I prepurchased the last two and realized that I almost never use the items given for prepurchasing so the perks this time don't appeal to me.   I was also not happy with the way IBS turned out.  Lastly, I have not been impressed with what I have seen and know about EoD so far.    I never played the orginal Guild Wars so I don't have the attachment to Cantha many seem to have.  I don't care about fishing, skiffs or siege turtles and beta testing the new elite specs didn't impress me much.  That's just my opinion though. 

So I'm not going to give them my money early this time.    Yes $30 isn't much at all and I imagine if and when I buy EoD I'll easily get my $30 worth in play time.   I'm just "voting " with my wallet on this one, even though in the larger picture I know my vote is insignificant. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, mercury ranique.2170 said:

I think the linked image also illustrates the opposite.

Specially a game like GW2 without monthly fees require a lot of investment. most of the costs are made before release while most revenue starts afterwards. When buying before hand, you ensure them from revenue enabling them to make more investments to this release. 
 

Whatever investments have been made for the expansion have already been allocated through ANet's budget process.  Pre-purchasing has no impact.

[Zera.9435]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:07 AM, Raizel.1839 said:

No that's exactly the point. They can't be criticized! They are free to spend their money whatever they want and you have no right to criticize their choice. 

You can criticize the product, the company, but not customer's choices, because these do not concern anyone other than the customer himself.

I am not criticizing anyone for pre-purchasing. I was simply pointing out that the practice of pre-purchasing isn't really a good idea and should be done with caution. I won't go into the specifics again because I've already done that in several other posts in this thread.

[Tukaram.8256]

Everyone do what you are happy with. I could not care less if you buy the expansion early, or ever.  What you do is none of my concern.  Just as what I do is none of your concern.

I have been happy with the work ANet puts into the game, and the only costs to play is the occasional expansion - so I happily pre-order them.  They have never let me down before, and I doubt they will this time.  I already have my Cantha skin for my raptor, and I will finally get to go fishing, soon (with my new skiff skin).  So far so good. 

I have been playing GW and GW2 since the beginning.  This is by far the cheapest MMO I ever played and I have no problem giving them support by pre-ordering.  The bonuses are nice, but not essential. 😎

[DoctorOverlord.8620]

I am probably not going to pre-order EoD because if I will probably be buying one of the versions that give you a bunch of gems.  If I have a bunch of gems then I will probably spend them all even before EoD is released lol

Edited December 2, 2021 by DoctorOverlord.8620

[Freya.9075]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:00 PM, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

My 'paranoia' is not unfounded nor in an unhealthy amount. I am also not attempting to trash the game.

You're comparing the purchasing of a product that is immediately available to a product that is not yet available.

Think of it more like this:

You just purchased a car. You have already paid but you cannot drive it for roughly six months. In the mean time, here is a car cover (mount skin), steering wheel cover (cape), and custom shiny valve caps (title).

The car example is kind of wrong unless you buy used cars. When you buy new cars you do prepay for them cause the car needs to be manufactured and you’ll get the car when it’s ready to be delivered. At least in gw2 you got a game to play while waiting for the developers you wanted to support.  Nothing wrong with that 

[robertthebard.8150]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:54 PM, Ultramex.1506 said:

Eh with the current trend in gaming i can see why OP is upset, and people can do what they want doesn't mean they can't be criticised for allowing TrIpLe AaA take their money and give them shoddy product while lying about it

However, Anet beside the mount skin lootbox, haven't done what the OP's fear

Who says those players don't criticize them for it?  I know I would, if I preordered something and didn't get what was expected/promised.  I'd even go so far as to refund it, if it was truly egregious.  I have in the past.  None of that, however, gives anyone else the right to question how I spend my money.  You are free to be as judgmental as you wish, but you are not free to dictate what I should or shouldn't do with my money.

That said, I haven't pre-ordered this, and don't know that I'll even buy it right away on release, or maybe pre-order at the last minute.  I don't know.  I'm currently spending my money on my motorcycle.  Do I need some random person on the internet to grant me permission for that as well?  What about my groceries?  I mean, seriously, where does it end?

[Caille.7214]

If you still pre-order in 2021, you deserve everything that's coming to you.

You could argue this point.

But you might as well argue with a brickwall why it's a brickwall.

Equally pointless.

 

A while back there was a scam HP train in HoT, demanding Tips up front and when he/she had enough tips it simply logged off.

People wondered whether that person had Dc'd and if he/she would return because they had tipped upfront.

(Bare in mind that the majority of GW2's playerbase is considered of ''legal adult age''.)

 

We spend 15-20 mins. explaining that they were scammed and should NEVER tip upfront. (not irl, not ever in a mmo)

We pointed out that that same person was trying to pull the same scam in Pof now and they should report that person for scamming.  ''but.. I tipped...''

 

After repeatedly having to point out it was a scam and they should report, there was still a person that went:

''So.... is he coming back? I need to pick my kids from school soon.''

A collective ./facepalm echoed through the Maguuma jungle....

 

What I found most troublesome was the fact, that the thing procreated and let it's waterheaded brood loose upon humanity.

[Tukaram.8256]

5 hours ago, DoctorOverlord.8620 said:

I am probably not going to pre-order EoD because if I will probably be buying one of the versions that give you a bunch of gems.  If I have a bunch of gems then I will probably spend them all even before EoD is released lol

I purchased the option that came with gems.  Not really sure why... I still have gems that came with PoF. They give so many, and there is pretty much nothing to use them on.  I just buy the highest version to help support the game. 

[robertthebard.8150]

34 minutes ago, Alchemy.2890 said:

If you still pre-order in 2021, you deserve everything that's coming to you.

You could argue this point.

But you might as well argue with a brickwall why it's a brickwall.

Equally pointless.

 

A while back there was a scam HP train in HoT, demanding Tips up front and when he/she had enough tips it simply logged off.

People wondered whether that person had Dc'd and if he/she would return because they had tipped upfront.

(Bare in mind that the majority of GW2's playerbase is considered of ''legal adult age''.)

 

We spend 15-20 mins. explaining that they were scammed and should NEVER tip upfront. (not irl, not ever in a mmo)

We pointed out that that same person was trying to pull the same scam in Pof now and they should report that person for scamming.  ''but.. I tipped...''

 

After repeatedly having to point out it was a scam and they should report, there was still a person that went:

''So.... is he coming back? I need to pick my kids from school soon.''

A collective ./facepalm echoed through the Maguuma jungle....

 

What I found most troublesome was the fact, that the thing procreated and let it's waterheaded brood loose upon humanity.

I do.  Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's ok, and sometimes it's bad.  On that note, however, I mentioned my bike in my previous post.  Sometimes, I go for a ride, and it's really nice the whole time.  Other times, I'll get caught out in a sudden rain storm, or the temperature will drop, and it's cold.  Should I quit riding because sometimes the end result is unpleasant?

The rest of this is a perfect example of why we should never get direct trading in game, so thanks, I guess?

Edited December 2, 2021 by robertthebard.8150
quote tags.

[Freya.9075]

40 minutes ago, Alchemy.2890 said:

If you still pre-order in 2021, you deserve everything that's coming to you.

You could argue this point.

But you might as well argue with a brickwall why it's a brickwall.

Equally pointless.

 

A while back there was a scam HP train in HoT, demanding Tips up front and when he/she had enough tips it simply logged off.

People wondered whether that person had Dc'd and if he/she would return because they had tipped upfront.

(Bare in mind that the majority of GW2's playerbase is considered of ''legal adult age''.)

 

We spend 15-20 mins. explaining that they were scammed and should NEVER tip upfront. (not irl, not ever in a mmo)

We pointed out that that same person was trying to pull the same scam in Pof now and they should report that person for scamming.  ''but.. I tipped...''

 

After repeatedly having to point out it was a scam and they should report, there was still a person that went:

''So.... is he coming back? I need to pick my kids from school soon.''

A collective ./facepalm echoed through the Maguuma jungle....

 

What I found most troublesome was the fact, that the thing procreated and let it's waterheaded brood loose upon humanity.

How is that comparable to a company selling a product? I understand it’s frustrating that players scam you like that. You should report them. It’s two different things 

[Avenrise.3592]

Just adding my view quickly!

I agree with you about pre-purchasing.. and yet I pre-purchased EoD. The risks associated with pre-purchasing an MMO expansion, or expansions in general, are much smaller than when you pre-purchase an 'offline' game. You know you like the game, the systems involved and the style and are buying more of the same. In the case of an MMO it's adding to an existing world and it's content that if you do not enjoy it you can just ignore it and carry on playing the game after experiencing it. 

In the specific case of GW2 theyre showing you large parts what youre going to get and even letting you test out some of it. It is also, opinion here, very cheap for the perceived content you are getting. If you know for a fact the expansion interests you, you can afford it now and you will likely buy it on launch anyway then why wait? 

[Bluevan.9248]

oh, boys. we have a riot on your radars😀

[Skynet.7201]

How about you do you.