Discuss successful alliance-era roaming

[RangerThings.9810]

Roamers, what works for solo/small-scale roaming in alliances in 2022?

 

We all have bemoaned the decline of roaming, yet we keep coming back. I am wondering what maps and tactics are working for other addicted roamers. 

[subversiontwo.7501]

How would you define roaming? On these forums the biggest issue discussing roaming is that there seems to be a really wide birth of what the definition is from running dollies or PPT to being in a pickup squad.

The solo and small-group scale roaming as I know it (wander cross map, 1-5vX ish, seek/destroy players rather than sieging objectives) mainly suffers from some degree of balance issues (but those tend to be half-bad at 1 but pretty good at 5, can drive players toward small groups so it has both good and bad in it), that the game as a whole has prioritised soloing over grouping and the inexperience (or disconnect between the experienced and inexperienced) that come with it.

I actually find small-group roaming to be relatively healthy whether we talk about balance or available content (and cross-scale balance). My only issue is finding other players who agree with that or are able to play in such environments. That goes back to the problems described above. There is plenty of potential for both solo roaming and small-group roaming in the 2022 environment whether we talk server- or alliance worlds.

Edited January 20, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Gorem.8104]

Main issues with Roaming and scouting and playing a bit of sabotage or distraction or solo defending has been nerfed with the last update that removed grace period from wall repair and siege use, so on maps other then EBG I hope you are getting a kill every 10minutes. 

 

Does seem like Anet only wants us to play by zerging. Might be good to not mention good roaming tactics on their official forums before they nerf that too. 

[Dawdler.8521]

Contrary to popular belief of some sort of kafkaesque bodyswapping nightmare where no one in WvW that played last week is the same this week, I find myself fighting the same guilds, the same type of roamers on the same type of builds. So I just do what I've always done.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Roaming to me is is at most 10 to 12 or so people on gear that brings enough utility to remain independent but still have tools to assist with peeling off enemies to cover allies and/or support them directly and avoid losing them. 

 

Proper roaming skirmishes are meant to be long and with a lot of back and forth with no real dead man's zone unlike the massive cloud skirmishes between keeps and sm which are clown Fiestas of reflects, necro aoes and rangers. 

 

Roaming to me is intercepting enemies trying to get hold of camps or small groups assaulting bigger objectives with these numbers and offensive operations inside enemy territory when zergs feed each other in SM, so basically disrupting the enemy during big fights, attacking zergling reruns and their roamer guards etc. 

 

The real issue is how rare roaming is in borders and especially desert while EB suffers from too high population making this type of roaming quickly evolve into some zerg appearing. 

 

In alliances I rly enjoy the higher population and mixing of people in general though, as it allows for new groups to be formed and more like minded roamers to combine forces, which is not easy on the old servers, especially those that were on a decline and lack roamers. 

 

Need some more time imo to properly evaluate roaming and probs see what anet has in store with EoD and hopefully a big balance change. 

[Sahne.6950]

I am roaming with my brother and some friends (usualy 2-4 man group). we spend our time on the Borderlands and it works pretty well(when working well means us having cool fights). we usually do a big circle around the map taking the camps or even keeps when there is noone that spotted us. usually this will pull some people that actually care to defend (and the occasional Zerg, but that is fine cuz they bring 35 people to stop 3 so in total we are winning even when we have to retreat). i Suggest not changing the map to often cuz after an hour or so you are called out and there will be people that made it their mission to try and stop you, waiting for you at the camp already (fun fights yey).

from my experience Roaming is not completely dead... but we are playing on T1 server so i guess that could be a reason we have alot of fights. i experienced that in lower tiers people dont scout / call out groups that move in their territory/ or dont even care to defend... (yesterday i called out that 3 people are taking hills and i was alone... i did everything i could... Siegedisabler after siege disabler..... i shouted 15 minutes and spammed teamchat.... NOT A SINGLE SOUL CAME(it was primetime and we had Q and even a commandertag on the map at that time..... but i guess i just have kitten mates for the current beta)

Buildwise:

Anything Renegade

Ranger (power and condi)

Trailblazer mirage

and ofc Necro

are pretty nasty to fight and is what we mostly use.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Justine.6351]

If you cant kill it, Troll it.

 

Get good at underwater combat. Play a class with pull skills. Tap everything. Flip camps and sentries. Defend camps and sentries from the home server reflipping them. Defend enemy objectives from the other faction even if you cant flip it yourself.

Mesmer is pretty good at this style of play. Pulls, stealth, teleports, interrupts and good at underwater combat.

[pukish.5784]

Having 4+ supports,2+ bruisers and say it's roaming, that kind of thing is trend since 2016. If that is roaming then roaming isn't dead at all.

[Justine.6351]

27 minutes ago, pukish.5784 said:

Having 4+ supports,2+ bruisers and say it's roaming, that kind of thing is trend since 2016. If that is roaming then roaming isn't dead at all.

eh, I see people say this but I do see a lot of 1/2/3 roaming.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

7 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Main issues with Roaming and scouting and playing a bit of sabotage or distraction or solo defending has been nerfed with the last update that removed grace period from wall repair and siege use, so on maps other then EBG I hope you are getting a kill every 10minutes. 

Well to be fair grand most of people that this change affected as far as I can tell were people whom afk-farmed pips by hitting a wall at stonemist with a repair hammer once every 5 minutes. Which is probably what AN wanted to remove with the change.

Personally when "roaming" as in running independent build and doing whatever I could solo in wvw, I hardly even used that grace period myself. flipping flags, killing dollies, and ocasional camp capture were more than enough to mantain the activity level topped.the only issues I had were if enemy presence on the map was so vast that whenever I would leave the spawn I would be running into groups of two or three without ability to do any of aforementioned without being ganked by a group of enemies , but these situations mostly happened in periods where there was alot of one team on the map and nothing to really contest it from other teams.

[Shroud.2307]

Tier S A B C D E

S
Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast, Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye, Scrapper/Holosmith, Mirage, Renegade

A
Herald, Guardian/Dragonhunter, Reaper, Spellbreaker

B
Mesmer/Chronomancer, Firebrand, Weaver, Revenant, Necromancer/Scourge, Warrior

C
Elementalist/Tempest, Engineer, Berserker

Assuming it's played well, I don't believe anything is below C tier. I've seen people have success with everything, it's just a matter of knowing your class and reading fights.
Realistically, more things could be placed toward the bottom tiers with only a few on the top end, but I think it's better to rate based on potentials rather than averages.

For the people curious of what "defines" roaming, the numbers vary from player to player but I think everyone can agree that solo roaming means solo.
In that case, anything in S and A tiers are good choices. Below that you're going to struggle immensely due to the frequency of outnumbered fights.

It also depends on your goals. Some people only go for fights, some only for kills, some only for PPT, others a variety. Personally I think a good roamer means an annoying one. The more of a pest you can be, and the more people are calling you out on the map, the better. Anyone can spank zerglings and play a run-away build tapping a Waypoint.
If you're baiting a dozen players in to chasing you and killing them as you go, as well as; killing siege in objectives, sniping yaks, resetting Supply Camps, opening objectives, +ing small scale fights, and communicating things you see with map - you're doing it right.

Also nod to the OP as one of the few players I see solo more often than not. One of a dying breed.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Tier S A B C D E

S
Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast, Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye, Scrapper/Holosmith, Mirage, Renegade

A
Herald, Guardian/Dragonhunter, Reaper, Spellbreaker

B
Mesmer/Chronomancer, Firebrand, Weaver, Revenant, Necromancer/Scourge, Warrior

C
Elementalist/Tempest, Engineer, Berserker

Well at least it make me feel better since I primarily roam on core engie and still beat most I meet, however I have to disagree on two particular parts.

First, the holo isnt really top tier IMO. At least not anymore. It was once perhaps but today barely anyone run holo.

Secondly, I would rate the tempest a notch higher than that because they can be a very strong force multiplier when roaming in duos or higher as aurashare.

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Realistically, more things could be placed toward the bottom tiers with only a few on the top end, but I think it's better to rate based on potentials rather than averages.

I'd say the opposite is the case and rating based on highest potential would lead to much bigger disparities. The main reason you "see people have success with everything" is that the average skill level is very low and many players play bad builds, which allows players who are even just a bit above average to shine with builds that are far from optimal, but probably still much better than that bow only full signet core ranger with bear pet you might come across occasionally. The freedom of the game mode also allows players to kinda fit their gameplay to their build. But it does not make much sense to rate classes based on something where "everything works". I mean, if you equate solo roaming with camp flipping and sentry/dolyak killing while waypointig before any enemy player can come too close, you might as well consider scourge or firebrand to be top tier (preferable with PvE build!). But actually good solo builds will allow a player to do much more than that.

For example, i'd never put a build without stealth, mobility and some sort of on demand cc immunity or teleport at S tier for solo roaming, because those things are crucial when having to escape a sticky situation and those will inevitably happen. Ofc you could argue, well, just get better at avoiding those bad situations, but ultimatively you just end up having to restrict yourself and can't push limits as well as you could otherwise, which does not scream "top tier" build to me.

I also think it does not make much sense to mix solo and (organised) grp roaming, because certain classes perform very different depending on which scenario we are talking about (eg core ranger is pretty ok solo - would not put it in S tier tho - but one of the worst things you can bring to a grp, while scourge or firebrand suck solo, but shine in certain small scale comps).

 

To answer the op's question - abusing stealth, mobility and cele (yes, all in one build) is what i do. Turned out to be the by far best choice for solo ranger gameplay deep in enemy territories (and as result - very often outnumbered).

Edited January 20, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

First, the holo isnt really top tier IMO. At least not anymore. It was once perhaps but today barely anyone run holo

When considering how few players are dedicated solo roamers it wouldn't be surprising to have top tier builds that aren't super common (not that i'd say holo is actually that rare - i still encounter quite a few of them) and i see no reason why holo wouldn't be still right up there alongside of scrapper (which might be more common, simply because it excels at all scales, not just solo).

[Dawdler.8521]

24 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

 i see no reason why holo wouldn't be still right up there alongside of scrapper (which might be more common, simply because it excels at all scales, not just solo).

While I never played holo - never liked how it played even on release - I think I do see the reason and it began with the holowave nerf (prolly dropped the amount of holo roamers to 1/5th) and was then followed up by the stun damage nerf. The builds simply relied too much on it. Anything works if you know how to use it, I just dont consider it top tier. A on your scale would IMO be more accurate.

[Junkpile.7439]

I usually roam out of tower and try to one shot somebody who run pass. If it fails i roam inside tower.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Junkpile.7439

[Shroud.2307]

 

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I'd say the opposite is the case and rating based on highest potential would lead to much bigger disparities.

I only listed them as I did - by potential rather than average - because roamers are often better than the average WvW player (because zergers and scouts make up the majority). If I instead made this list based on averages, everything would be in the A and B tier with nothing in the others.

 

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I mean, if you equate solo roaming with camp flipping and sentry/dolyak killing while waypointig before any enemy player can come too close, you might as well consider scourge or firebrand to be top tier (preferable with PvE build!)

No, I said being a good roamer means doing those things, not only those things.
There would be two very different lists for only fighting and 1v1ing versus only PPTing. Roaming has always meant doing more than just one of those things because realistically, you're not going to afk in front of a keep and get a constant flow of fights (or survive for very long) or only snipe camps and towers. 
I said being a good roamer means doing everything because any random pug can fulfill the ganking or PPTing role, not everyone can cause actual stress to the enemy by pestering them in ways that hurts them down the road (ie. killing objective siege when you know your zerg is on their way, helping them to set up faster because they don't have to worry about that siege. Or distracting pugs while something of theirs is being attacked, and you only do it long enough to buy time).
 

6 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I also think it does not make much sense to mix solo and (organised) grp roaming, because certain classes perform very different depending on which scenario we are talking about (eg core ranger is pretty ok solo - would not put it in S tier tho - but one of the worst things you can bring to a grp, while scourge or firebrand suck solo, but shine in certain small scale comps).

Why not? They are different things, and OP specifically asked solo and group.

In some ways I agree with what you've said. The general skill level is very low, and it is a little contradictive to say that everything works, and then make a tier list.
I certainly wouldn't say that list is totally accurate, and even 20 minutes after writing it there are changes I'd make. The point is that solo and group roaming are different things, and whether or not everything works doesn't change the fact that some things are better than others. Some people can do crazy things with classes or builds you wouldn't expect, but because I chose to format my response with a tier list, I couldn't consider every possible variable (which makes it fair to say it was a bad response). The point was to make something easily digestible through my own experience and from watching others, and to reinforce the OP's habits by telling them they're doing good as a roamer because I recognize them.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Shroud.2307

[Shroud.2307]

7 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Well at least it make me feel better since I primarily roam on core engie and still beat most I meet, however I have to disagree on two particular parts.

First, the holo isnt really top tier IMO. At least not anymore. It was once perhaps but today barely anyone run holo.

Secondly, I would rate the tempest a notch higher than that because they can be a very strong force multiplier when roaming in duos or higher as aurashare.

I have actually started playing core Condi Engi more often when roaming, and it's significantly better than core Power just due to having more defenses. Without going in to too much detail, I'll just say that I feel the two types have their own weaknesses, but with the nature of roaming and getting outnumbered, Condi is the better choice.

Still, core Engi is just not a good roamer regardless of what you choose. I love it dearly, but there are far too many encounters be it 1v1 or 1vX that demand me to be more skilled than what I am, and even a very good player would fail in similar ways.

As for Holo, I think you're both right and wrong. It is a lot weaker than it used to be for sure, but the mobility this spec can have with Crystal Configuration: Zephyr + the sustain through Heat Therapy is significant. A well played one can be not only hard to catch, but can handle outnumbered fights very well and doesn't have a ton of losing 1v1's.

Agree with Tempest in groups. I think people undervalue the impact of a good Tempest, and I'd personally rate it higher than Firebrand support in groups below the size of 10.
But I was talking solo not group, so that's why I put it in C tier.

[Moradorin.6217]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:08 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

How would you define roaming? On these forums the biggest issue discussing roaming is that there seems to be a really wide birth of what the definition is from running dollies or PPT to being in a pickup squad.

The solo and small-group scale roaming as I know it (wander cross map, 1-5vX ish, seek/destroy players rather than sieging objectives) mainly suffers from some degree of balance issues (but those tend to be half-bad at 1 but pretty good at 5, can drive players toward small groups so it has both good and bad in it), that the game as a whole has prioritised soloing over grouping and the inexperience (or disconnect between the experienced and inexperienced) that come with it.

I actually find small-group roaming to be relatively healthy whether we talk about balance or available content (and cross-scale balance). My only issue is finding other players who agree with that or are able to play in such environments. That goes back to the problems described above. There is plenty of potential for both solo roaming and small-group roaming in the 2022 environment whether we talk server- or alliance worlds.

To me roaming is/was always 1-5 (usually 1-3) similar to what you say but not exactly. A real roamer isnt just a pvp ganker a real roamer is many things at the same time. A roamer is a ganker, seeker of players to kill also looks to defend objectives without a squad and in that sense acts as a scout who watchs objectives and checks the ones that become contested often fighting those who attack or seeking out the tap source. Then they call out into /m or /t when its a large force they cannot repel. A real/good roamer will FOR SURE take any objectives up to and including keeps (if not defended).

People often missunderstand roaming and what role it actually filled before Feb 2020. I used to commonly roam around desert cause Im odd an like the terrain and also find the shrine boosts handy when soloing. I used to take Fire and Air keep and anything else even a garrison a few times when undefended. Soloing fire, air and gari champs isnt easy but its doable and usually a few other roamers show up by the time both walls are down maybe even a squad comes to back you up. Roamers did EVERYTHING to be blunt. I dont bother playing wvw much in the last year. When I do Im usually playing either necro ranger or engi and any of them can still solo objectives just fine including keeps, but I have limited interest in investing as many thousands of hours into a new class as I did in the past so as long so I dont play much now and usually just stick with groups. In other words, I dont want to invest in getting as good with those classes as I was with my main which was nerfed into oblivion in wvw. So I switched back to pve and got into raiding for the last year. but I get bored in pve pretty quick so I play maybe 1/4 as much as I used to.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

gotta snort more bloodstone dust for dat dere roamering.

 

most "roamers" are just running around in gankerpacks of up to 15 players these days, that is why it's declared dead yet.

[coro.3176]

3 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

To me roaming is/was always 1-5 (usually 1-3) similar to what you say but not exactly. A real roamer isnt just a pvp ganker a real roamer is many things at the same time. A roamer is a ganker, seeker of players to kill also looks to defend objectives without a squad and in that sense acts as a scout who watchs objectives and checks the ones that become contested often fighting those who attack or seeking out the tap source. Then they call out into /m or /t when its a large force they cannot repel. A real/good roamer will FOR SURE take any objectives up to and including keeps (if not defended).

People often missunderstand roaming and what role it actually filled before Feb 2020. I used to commonly roam around desert cause Im odd an like the terrain and also find the shrine boosts handy when soloing. I used to take Fire and Air keep and anything else even a garrison a few times when undefended. Soloing fire, air and gari champs isnt easy but its doable and usually a few other roamers show up by the time both walls are down maybe even a squad comes to back you up. Roamers did EVERYTHING to be blunt. I dont bother playing wvw much in the last year. When I do Im usually playing either necro ranger or engi and any of them can still solo objectives just fine including keeps, but I have limited interest in investing as many thousands of hours into a new class as I did in the past so as long so I dont play much now and usually just stick with groups. In other words, I dont want to invest in getting as good with those classes as I was with my main which was nerfed into oblivion in wvw. So I switched back to pve and got into raiding for the last year. but I get bored in pve pretty quick so I play maybe 1/4 as much as I used to.

Had this conversation with some guildmates during one of our runs. "Oh, those players are really good roamers", they said of a guild of thieves jumping on players coming from spawn. "No, they're good gankers, not good roamers", I replied. They were just killing PvE-ers out for participation.

Successful roaming is small group activity that contributes the most impact to the overall WvW goal per player. The primary thing a good roamer should be doing is reading the map and and visualizing what is happening. Occasionally, yes, good roaming involves ganking players coming from spawn to prevent an opposing force from regrouping, but most often it does not. A good roamer is thinking two steps ahead of the enemy zerg's commander, and flips the camp they are going to need to resupply 30 seconds before they arrive.

[Ged Kealmen.7210]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:46 PM, RangerThings.9810 said:

Roamers, what works for solo/small-scale roaming in alliances in 2022?

 

We all have bemoaned the decline of roaming, yet we keep coming back. I am wondering what maps and tactics are working for other addicted roamers. 

 

I've been roaming for years, solo most of the time. I tried joining guild "raids" and pugmander squads, never found them to be either skilled enough to respect, or active enough to enjoy so I always go back to solo roaming.

Usually regular roamers end up knowing each other, and you get a feel for who might be on map at certain times, who will respond to callouts when you need a hand to get rid of an enemy group or want to defend a keep or whatever. 
During the betas, the only difference I've seen is that most of the roamers are unskilled noobs or just plain poultrylike runaway sentryflippers with not an ounce of fight in them. Other than that, I've had no issues at all roaming just as I did before.

So I have no reason to bemoan anything, except perhaps being chucked into a team with no skilled roamers, which should be a matter of luck.

My suggestion, to avoid this happening once WvW changes the system, is to join a roamer guild and select it as WvW active, so regular roamers can roam together but separately, if that makes sense. Everyone can do their thing, but you will have a much better idea of who is roaming in which maps at which times and who you can rely on in a pinch.

IMO this new system will be much better for roamers, allowing what I described above to happen without people needing to be on the same or linked servers.

All this talk about roaming being dead sounds senseless to me.

[Ged Kealmen.7210]

Just a side comment... when did havocking become roaming?

As far as I know, roaming is solo... running around in a small party is havocking, and zerging... well zerging is just that.

Lately I've read a lot of posts with people calling "small groups" roamers, that's not roaming IMO.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:21 AM, pukish.5784 said:

Having 4+ supports,2+ bruisers and say it's roaming, that kind of thing is trend since 2016. If that is roaming then roaming isn't dead at all.

Touché!

Pitty that sometimes (most of it actually) its hard to have decent mesmer bomb squad  to eat those boons😛

Edited January 22, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Caedmon.6798]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:23 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Roaming to me is is at most 10 to 12 or so people on gear that brings enough utility to remain independent but still have tools to assist with peeling off enemies to cover allies and/or support them directly and avoid losing them. 

 

Proper roaming skirmishes are meant to be long and with a lot of back and forth with no real dead man's zone unlike the massive cloud skirmishes between keeps and sm which are clown Fiestas of reflects, necro aoes and rangers. 

 

Roaming to me is intercepting enemies trying to get hold of camps or small groups assaulting bigger objectives with these numbers and offensive operations inside enemy territory when zergs feed each other in SM, so basically disrupting the enemy during big fights, attacking zergling reruns and their roamer guards etc. 

 

The real issue is how rare roaming is in borders and especially desert while EB suffers from too high population making this type of roaming quickly evolve into some zerg appearing. 

 

In alliances I rly enjoy the higher population and mixing of people in general though, as it allows for new groups to be formed and more like minded roamers to combine forces, which is not easy on the old servers, especially those that were on a decline and lack roamers. 

 

Need some more time imo to properly evaluate roaming and probs see what anet has in store with EoD and hopefully a big balance change. 

10 - 12 people considered roaming now. ? Roaming is 1 - 5. Anything above is havoc or gank,anything above that is a blob or zoneblob.