Condi should not equal power burst damage

[JinONplay.8905]

Condi has too much player debuff and too annoying to cleanse, not only that they made condi users have tanky stats

Condi being able to easily spam large amount of debuffs with so little effort is incredibly frustrating

Power bursts are meant to be the main damage and condi should not equal that damage but rather it should be for support only 

Power does not have any side effects as condi does for example torments

Power users are now forced to use Tank builds that has cleanses but does not deal a fair amount of damage 

Even though a player uses a cleanse build condi spamming still does more damage than it should

Condi tanks can still deal large amounts of damage while talking a large amount of punishments from power and even against other condis which is highly unfair

Power against condi users will have more trouble fighting.

the only way to fight condi is another condi user making power against condi pointless

Cleanse users has a hard time fighting back against condi users

Bunker condi has become a literal plague on Spvp

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by JinONplay.8905

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, JinONplay.8905 said:

Power bursts are meant to be the main damage and condi should not equal that damage but rather it should be for support only 

whaaat 😧 who said that? or is that just you assuming what a perfect game would be?

Yeah condi is annoying at times.... but why cant it be as strong as a power build? you are acting like condibuilds dont have to hit their target.....  they have to hit the target like a powerbuild has to AND they can be cleansed... I think you just got melted by some condimirages and are fuming now...

Edited February 10, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Liewec.2896]

agreed, condi should be able to deal higher damage than power, but take time to do it.

i shouldn't be able to press 2 buttons and see 8k burn ticks.

'condi burst' shouldn't be a thing.

saying 'condiburst' should be like saying 'glasscannon tank' the two things should be totally opposite.

perhaps a fix would be to change conditions to deal more damage each tick, starting off weak but ramping up if ignored.

Quote

you are acting like condibuilds dont have to hit their target.....  they have to hit the target like a powerbuild has to AND they can be cleansed...

the difference being:

weakness will seriously nerf power damage and is widespread and spammable. there is no condition that negates the damage of conditions like this.

we have the Toughness attribute which even further reduces power damage, there is no attribute that reduces condi damage like this.

protection which reduces power damage is vastly more common than resolution which reduces condi damage.

if i use a skill that deals several high damage power hits you can dodge several of them.

however if i use a skill that applies heavy stacks of burning you will take 5k damage, then 5k damage, then 5k damage, then 5k damage, dodge as many times as you like, once the condi is on you you cannot dodge the damage.

same goes for things like blind, drop a blind field on a warrior using 100b and watch those 8 ticks of damage miss, miss, miss, miss, however one touch from a condi skill and every tick of damage will follow.

once a condi is on you you will need to burn condition clears to remove it which usually means sacrificing your utility bar.

also a huge difference, power builds need to build far squishier to deal damage since they rely on power, precision and fury, condi builds simply need 'condition damage'.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Liewec.2896

[Curennos.9307]

Sorry, can't quite understand what you mean over the sound of OP not providing a single example, mention of a skill, trait, amulet, or how burn guards burst can often be negated with a well timed weapon swap cleanse sigil.

[Sahne.6950]

Well some condis can sooomeeeeewhat burst you.... a contiteef can down you 100-0 in under 4 seconds... but lets be real... the same guy can kill you in half the time with power. Power is and will always be superior. Condi builds might feel to strong to you as they do to alot of lowerskilled players. They are mostly noobstomperbuilds. But anyone that knows what to expect and with a few cleanses wont find them too problematic. Power > Condis.  Condimirages can be really annoying and hard to play against but once you understand to not spam your skills when you have confusion on you even those are fine. Using a condibuild against a skilled player with good cleanse feels like you are throwing cottonballs at them...

you can be lucky that you play pvp 😄 in WvW there is expertise aswell which increases the conditiondurations by a ton.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[JinONplay.8905]

Wow so many condi mains here, no wonder Spvp is now terrible, been playing cleanse power tanks for months against condis

Condis don't take much skill , most condis are also range, it requires more effort against bunker condis than bunker powers even

even experienced power players needs more effort fighting moderate players using condi builds

[Ragnar.4257]

Just now, JinONplay.8905 said:

Wow so many condi mains here, no wonder Spvp is now terrible, been playing cleanse power tanks for months against condis

Condis don't take much skill , most condis are also range, it requires more effort against bunker condis than bunker powers even

even experienced power players needs more effort fighting moderate players using condi builds

Why don't you go and watch some recent tournaments played by top players and count the number of players on each team playing a condi build.

We'll all wait.

[Sigmoid.7082]

3 minutes ago, JinONplay.8905 said:

Wow so many condi mains here

Ah yes the "people don't agree with me so they must main the thing I am complaining about". A classic. 

 

Your post isn't really even that deep. Your complaining and making accusations but have provided absolutely nothing to back them up.

[Avatar.3568]

1 minute ago, JinONplay.8905 said:

Wow so many condi mains here, no wonder Spvp is now terrible, been playing cleanse power tanks for months against condis

Condis don't take much skill , most condis are also range, it requires more effort against bunker condis than bunker powers even

even experienced power players needs more effort fighting moderate players using condi builds

Condis are not strong, you have to avoid them mostly the same way as power dmg but Power dmg is hitting directly while condi dmg can tick 0 times. 

I don't want to be mean, but warrior has pretty decent condi cleanse and is still able to deal a good amount of dmg. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lJwSYKsLGKOWTpLPA-zZIPlMVA9KB6WEEyQQVDA

Here is a build that I am running pretty often, bull charge for cc, stomp for stun break and leaving stuff like fearring and guard walls. 

For greater justice gives you 3k heal and removes 1 condi (aoe) from you and allies. 2 recharges 

Every second weapon swap cleanses 2 condis every weapon swap at least 1 condi. Entering and leaving rampage will also let the condi cleanse procc. 

Your heal skill removes 5 condis. 

And this is still good playable in p2/3

[saerni.2584]

Most condi can only "burst you" if you don't have any cleanse.

 

Which is the same as complaining about power damage while not wearing armor. 
 

Block, evade are how all damage is avoided. Cleanse is mitigation (like armor) meaning it doesn't avoid all damage. And to be viable (condi should be viable) it needs to do appreciable damage. 
 

The argument that condi should do more damage over time misses that this already happens for balanced builds. Condi only outshines power against people with no cleanse. 
 

I have little problem against condi builds (even with moderate cleanse) because I use active mitigation. 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I find condi very unfair to use in a competitive. You can dodge power hits all day long but you cant dodge a condi tick. That in it self is unfair but you have have the cleansing wall where you run out of condi clears while the enemy only has to pres 1 1 1 to apply condis over and over again. Condi damage skills have no place in a competitive pvp scene imo.

[The Boz.2038]

15 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

I find condi very unfair to use in a competitive. You can dodge power hits all day long but you cant dodge a condi tick. That in it self is unfair but you have have the cleansing wall where you run out of condi clears while the enemy only has to pres 1 1 1 to apply condis over and over again. Condi damage skills have no place in a competitive pvp scene imo.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!

If you can dodge an axe swipe, you can dodge a condi strike. And you can also cleanse it. 

How is it that this simple untruth gets repeated so often? Dodges aren't a unique anti-power-strike-damage-only tool.

"it is unfair, you reach the endurance wall where you run out of dodges while enemy only has to press 1 1 1 to apply damage over and over again"

[Curennos.9307]

23 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

I find condi very unfair to use in a competitive. You can dodge power hits all day long but you cant dodge a condi tick. That in it self is unfair but you have have the cleansing wall where you run out of condi clears while the enemy only has to pres 1 1 1 to apply condis over and over again. Condi damage skills have no place in a competitive pvp scene imo.

How is a condi build pressing 1111 different than a power build doing it?

[Eugchriss.2046]

The only make condi builds looks "easier" is the fact that there is no stat to influence their duration. Expertise is not a important as it should. Adding expertise on amulets will force condi builds to drop either the burts ability either their sustain ability. It will also have an effect on power builds abusing chill/vuln/poison/immob like necro and ranger builds. I made a thread about it few months ago but the ranger police... You know.... 

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Expertise is not a important as it should.

You know, it's *really strange* how Expertise didn't make it's way into PvP as a stat. Ferocity amulet bumps crit damage by 40%, so Expertise would be "more important", but it just... isn't there.

[Curennos.9307]

16 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

You know, it's *really strange* how Expertise didn't make it's way into PvP as a stat. Ferocity amulet bumps crit damage by 40%, so Expertise would be "more important", but it just... isn't there.

Is this tongue in cheek? can't tell if you're poking fun and are well aware of the situation -

 

If not, there were expertise amulets but they got removed because people complained.

 

I'd happily trade the ridiculous power stats that are shoved onto condi amulets for some expertise. My choices on a condi build are basically, vitality + condi damage + power stats I don't really want and, except in some scenarios don't really benefit from at all. If anet wants condi builds to function, they need to stop shoving truckloads of power stats in there and let condi setups take the sustain they need for their condis to actually tick.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Build#Amulets check this link and sort by condition damage amulets. They ALL have either power or precision, and most have both.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Curennos.9307

[The Boz.2038]

I... honestly had no idea. I only came back to the game a year and a half ago. No idea Expertise was added and then axed.

Wow.

[Sigmoid.7082]

5 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I... honestly had no idea. I only came back to the game a year and a half ago. No idea Expertise was added and then axed.

Wow.

You missed a wild ride thats for sure...now , there is only one real pure condi amulet and that's rabid. Every other amulet has at least 900 power.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

condi isnt op its just poorly designed

[Fueki.4753]

If Arenanet would change conditions into a proper damage-over-time playstyle, instead of letting players vomit that disgusting condition burst over each other, it might be a far better suited for sPvP.

But the way it is now it's just another type of burst, one that seems to be much harder to deal with than power damage for most people.

2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Why don't you go and watch some recent tournaments played by top players and count the number of players on each team playing a condi build.

We'll all wait.

Top players don't mean much when the vast majority (which a game should always prioritize, because they are the majority) consists of average players that have a significantly different experience.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

1 hour ago, Curennos.9307 said:

How is a condi build pressing 1111 different than a power build doing it?

With condi you are doing two types of damage not one. Condi and power is very different

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Condi is good, but some condi builds are poorly designed, and many builds get access to powerful conditions basically for free, without investment.

First example that comes to my mind about "poor design": necromancers vomit conditions all day long, but at least they must press buttons to do so.
Then there's the 6s weakness every time they enter shroud. No animation on the necro, no visual effect (nothing you would notice anyway, with all the visual garbage around a necro), just... necro turns green and you're weakened forever. What?

Another example that comes to my mind is ranger.
For whatever reason, pets are allowed to drop ONE stack of poison. Not bleeding, not torment or confusion or burning or whatever: poison. That one condition with such a huge payoff for 0 investments. Or winter's bite, which is a long-kitten chilled with also weakness and huge power damage, it's just a skill that does everything on a very low cd. Those things allow builds that DO NOT WORK with conditions to still get very powerful conditions without any stats investment; it's just there.

Other builds, like fire weaver, don't work like that; they have their own toolkit, nothing really comes for free; they have to invest in what they're doing, and same for condi thief, most mirage builds and -partially- condi herald builds, back when it was still viable.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[anjo.6143]

Conditions shouldnt be a thing, at most, should be an add to dmg, not main source of dmg, the design is verg poor. 

 

And yes, condi still bursting, and thats bizarre. 

[Curennos.9307]

5 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

With condi you are doing two types of damage not one. Condi and power is very different

Most condition skills have negligible power damage. I'll freely admit there is some hybrid dmg in there and that condi builds do not-insignificant power damage - I'll also freely admit that I really want that kind of damage gone, or to be given a choice so it can be given up, because I hate it. 

 

But if you compare AAs between most power builds and most condition builds (while compensating for variances in class design, such as necromancer generally being more threatening sometimes because counterpressure plays more of a role in their defense, since they basically have two evades+chunks of extra health, shroud AA, non-dmg condis on AA, holo AA, 'utility' AAs such as staff 1, etc) they're about even. Sure, power can do lower damage - but also higher a lot of the time through crits ,ferocity, more easily accessible damage bonuses, etc.

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

22 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

With condi you are doing two types of damage not one. Condi and power is very different

And that makes a difference...... how?

If you take 5k damage, you lose 5k HP, what does it matter the "type" of damage?