Vindicator is an awful desgin

[Eckee.4038]

It's not even a design, it's random things put together. It's nothing Revenant has ever been and I bet everything I have that it wasn't designed by the people who designed core Revenant.

Core Revenant is the best class I've ever seen in any MMO. I fell in love with the game with falling in love with Revenant. Legends have so much character, whether it's skill animation or effect. You combine them to make your build suitable for different situations and change your gameplay completely even without any elite spec. They have their idle convo, voice acting, trait lines that fit and mold perfectly in different situations.

I cannot stress how great core Revenant is. Just like how terrible the Vindicator is. I may sound like I'm exaggerating but listen to me first. This isn't about low/high dps, low CC etcc. I don't care about those. Numbers can be adjusted. This is about design principles behind it.

 

Vindicator is nothing. It has no concept, no style, no attitude, no character, no synergy with anything. If it's something, it's blasphemy. It's blasphemy to this game's history, gameplay designers (especially the core Revenant designers) and players. It's either extremely, I mean very highly extremely rushed or it was designed by people who had no idea what they were doing. I really want to hear Vindicator designers on their principles behind this spec. I haven't seen anyone made any sense out of it.

- It tries to have something new, new dodge mechanic, ok but why like this? Trailer says it rushes into the battle rather than dodging (not word to word), but on the contrary, it dodges more and longer than any other class tbh. It spends more time evading and stays out of combat more than anything else. It's much more AFK time than any other class. So it doesn't do what's promised. Also, what is this new dodge mechanic other than an additional AoE skill anyway? It isn't inspiring or original at all.

- It has two legend skill sets in one slot. Again, why like this? Those skills don't work together, they have no synergy. They are random skills with random effects. You chose one and stay with it. There's no reason to switch between healer and dps sets in combat, they have completely different use cases. Even other old legends that are unrelated to each other have better synergy between them. Demon and Dwarf for example, have much more synergy between them than Kurzick and Luxon. How do Kurzick and Luxon belong together? What's so special between these two that they had to come together as bundle and not as separate legends?

- Now we are playing with 3 legends, extra complexity, OK but what do we have in return? If you're going to put more weight on players, you should reward them more. I don't want to put much more effort into something when there's nothing to gain. That's very crucial. Kalla is very powerful for example, but its skills are stationary. Should the enemy moves out, you're screwed. You won't land your dps. Enemies can also knock them back and they suffer from blinds. If you put them at the wrong time, at the wrong place, boss can punt them across the room leaving you with nothing. For example Samarog. It's harder to land them at their full duration so they are more rewarding in return.

- Trait line only leverages the problem even more. There are some traits try to encourage you to switch between Kurzick and Luxon to gain endurance, but there's no benefit to do it. Dodge gives/extend boons, but what boons? Might and regen? Everybody has got those already, and those boons are much easier to manage with other classes without sacrificing any dodge and spending AFK time.

- Dodge has nothing to do with legend skills. You can't cast them while above and there's no skill you can turn on and spend AFK time above and hit enemies. On the contrary, Mallyx has torment pulses, Jalis has rotating hammers. You can turn those on and press dodge, you can hit enemies with those while evading everything. So it makes more sense to use Vindi dodge with non Vindi legends.

 

I have lots of other complains about skills themselves but none of them should exist anyway, so it would be stupid to fix something that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

You should've chosen a path, a concept and gone with it instead of having this mess that does nothing right.

If you want to go with removing the dodge and replacing it with something more non-defensive/aggressive than dodge roll, you should tinker about this and form the spec around it.

- Make it one skill, ok, but make it have even shorter iframe duration than regular dodge but reward successful evades more. Make us want to face enemies head on and get hit so we can 'dodge' them to gain more dps/healing/boons etc. With the current one, we want to get hit even less. Have legend skills support this dodge action. Give them unique combo fields to trigger with this dodge skill maybe? Or increase the effects of the skills with adding this dodge hit with them. Put a CC on enemy, dodge hit to increase defiance damage. Put vulnerability effect, dodge hit to increase stacks, give self might or whatever. Get hit to charge up the dodge so you can execute combos. There are so many other things I can think of, so many possibilities to make it interesting.

If you want to go with two legend skill sets in one legend slot, you should for the spec around it.

- Make one ranged, one melee. Make one condi, other pdps. Or make one dps and healer, like the current one, but have some reason to swap between them in combat. Maybe put down a healer skill on allies/ground; swap to dps and condi cleanse if you use certain dps skill, burst heal if you use another skill, give might/life steal whatever if you use another. So we want to switch between heal and dps to trigger different effects. You already emphasize on combo fields on this expansion, I'm baffled that you didn't introduce even simple combo field/finisher skills with these two legends. In the end of the they, whatever you choose to do, both should have skills that can be improved by the other one so we want to switch between them to utilize both. Use different combos to create different effects depending on the situation. Maybe we would sacrifice dps to deal bigger defiance damage, or provide stability. Maybe we want to sacrifice some survivability and deal more damage during that combo etc. Current skills are completely uninteresting: AoE burn damage with enough high cast time to not care about the quickness it gives. Insta cast stun break and daze. Slow short range engage skill that nobody uses to engage. And a 2k range spear that applies... torment?

 

I'm so salty because there were so many possibilities. Because this isn't a Revenant spec at all, there's nothing Revenant about it. Other classes have something new to play with, and we've got this nonsense that will just be "balanced" in some way to deal more/less damage and that's all.

End of text wall. I wish devs would actually take this seriously and I could go into more details. But this is already too much for something nobody will care anyway💩

[Eckee.4038]

Sorry, I don't want to say I didn't try. At least now I gave some feedback about it and can sleep tight.

[Telgum.6071]

I was expecting the average revenant subforum thread moaning about "Vindicator bad, Renegade worse, I want 0 CD skills and buff Herald", but I agree with most that has been wrote here.

I share this sentiment about Revenant being the best designed (bugs aside) class of the genre, and I also think Herald is an improvement of that, which makes sense considering core and herald came together. I really don't know if the original designers of Revenant are the same ones who made Renegade and Vindicator, but it's true those two don't make Revenant justice.

Vindicator in particular, the dodge mechanic is a terrible design. It's supposed to be a jump into the mist, yet you can't get over small obstacles, and you are interrupted by abilities like Guardian staff wall. It's also extremely easy to counter since the enemy has enough time to prepare for you to reappear. It's so bad they had to give it 3000 healing + barrier to make it viable in competitive and sell the class.

The legends... I like them more than Kalla, and I think the Archemorus spear makes justice to the legend identity, such Jalis turning you into stone, Shiro releasing the jade wave or Mallyx surrounding you in darkness. But I'm still playing Shiro+Jalis just like I used to do with Renegade. Arenanet refuses to understand (or they don't care) that going into competitive fights without CC OR stability OR survivability is rarely an option.

Overall I hate the dodge mechanic and I don't think the Alliance is worth using outside maybe Viktor in teamplay.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[DonArkanio.6419]

I have actually had (and still do) the same feeling about Renegade when it came out. And I agree with what you are saying here.

I genuinely think that e-specs released after Herald don't fit Revenant. To me it looks like someone had an idea of a specialization and just threw it on the class rather than fitting it to its mechanics.

 

Even though I am now used to playing Herald I think the concept is just amazing. A great design - you actually have 2 sets of skills in one legend. While consuming the upkeeps you gain an active powerful skills but lose the pulsing boons. 

 

Vindicator felt odd to me since the very first Beta Weekend. And now I know it's because that this specialization doesn't really make any sense.

I remember a couple months back people talking about a dual-legend concept of Svanir and Jora which seemed pretty great. ANet decided to make that dream come true and failed miserably, in my opinion. 

First of all, I am not a fan of any modifications for the dodge mechanic since I believe it creates unbalanced matchups in PvP (looking at Daredevil, Mirage).  

Secondly, the great sword could not exist as it doesn't bring anything new to Revenant's playstyle aside from bombarding enemies with big damage (well, actually Renegade already does that with Citadel Bombardment).

The Kurzick and Luxon legends, as you already mentioned, don't synergize with each other. And I'd even say that they don't really synergize with any of the core legends. The utility skills of Vindicator are just the most plain and boring stuff. Jalis creates an actual sidewalk and turns people into stone dwarves for a moment. Mallyx (even though it's been butchered since HoT launch) is an extremely original design, pulling all the debuffs and condies on itself to benefit from it. Ventari introduced a mechanic of a player-controlled totem. As for Shiro, I still think they could do better.

Vindicator brings non of that stuff, non of that flavor that makes the Revenant in the first place, and it's sad.

I haven't bought the expansion and I'm not planning to at the moment, since pretty maps and new Netflix-type drama storyline doesn't appeal to me.

 

I believe professions are the most important part of Guild Wars, and when these are lacking, nothing can make up for it to me.  Sadly, for me, EoD doesn't offer what I would expect from a company that originally introduced Revenant.

[Thornwolf.9721]

As a rev main since the class came out I can say that the last two elite specs (Ren and vin) are both poorly made; Likely due to the fact that the revenants original creators are no longer at A-net. 
 

1. Revenant was made at a time when pvp, E-sports and a competitive environment was actually front and center in guild wars 2.  They actually tried to have legit tournaments for WvW and PvP. Thus the original revenant was built to be more around active gameplay, reactions and being able to compete with the already fairly bloated roster.
2. It was designed to be a jack of all trades, which honestly is not the core philosophy of the class however it did mean that herald could fine tune what it wanted to do. It gave rev a team play option as its core class was exceptionally selfish outside of ventari/jalis whom at the time were not that great.
3. Mallyx and shiro were both butchered, sword offhand when it lost its block was destroyed and the changes to staff signified they had no clue that this class is all about fluidity.
4. The changes to invocation with the removal of empty vessel also proved they had no clue what they were doing, because honestly our utilities are not reliable as cc breaks. This is due to the energy cost of them + weapons, so swapping legends (Using the mechanic as intended) to break cc's was genius. Because it meant it was hard to pin you down, as a duelist/bruiser class that is exactly what you want.
5. Renegade was the beginning of "Slap it on rev", they didn't know how to make a spec that could outshine herald. Rather than looking at characters from their lore who had unique kits in guild wars 1 they just started pulling stuff out of the in-between. I remember when they stated that "not all legends will be good" when channeling mallyx. They even hinted we'd be likely using more of the villains or the enemies we've faced in the prior title as their power could be used for good. This was supposed to be our sort of "darker" heavy class to pair with necromancer and thief in their respective weight classes. But Vin and ren felt like they just abandoned that; Sure we can have heroes like ventari. But shiro, mallyx and even jalis (Who doomed his people) were all either evil or morally grey. Hell even glint was morally grey as she didn't care how it got done, jut that her vision for the world was achieved. Consequences be damned. Kalla was not like that and while our luxon and kurzick pals are, in line with that idea they were never showcased outside of gimmicky skills to help with the final battle in guild wars factions. There are a TON of characters they could've used and they could've had these two play a larger role in the plot; Rather than them just show up on the rev because "lol why not"
6. Even though herald isn't in its best condition, I find myself still viewing it and core as the superior options with more well built mechanics and design. These other two just seem like some fan-fict of the class from a person who doesn't play, understand or care about what makes rev awesome. 

[Infinity.2876]

For rev I was hoping for something a little more eh... Portally 

They did kind of do that with bow renegade but.....

I guess I'm looking for some mobility which none of the elite specs and core give.

 

[captrowdy.9561]

Wish they would have made the jump a f2 skill but weaker. Can’t move with the commander In WvW even with the shield. I actually like playing it with the new legends+shiro. Great sword is super slow so still using dual swords. All theses new especs in the expansion feel rushed and uninspired. Vindi seems to be one of the better of them actually. Until the nerf which we all know is coming. 

[Infusion.7149]

Having two legends in one was fine as a concept. I don't think that's the issue. The main issue is the dodge being finnicky especially with terrain and the fact that one dodge is still a gimmick even when supplemented with the alliance legend's evades.

If you played it in beta , the first iteration had Luxon/Kurzick skills flip over automatically which was a train-wreck.

The Imperial Impact dodge extends boons, that in itself is already worthwhile. It isn't listed in tooltip but it also applies 8 to 10 might depending on game mode and protection. The Death Drop dodge on the other hand, is just a load of damage and even in WVW I've been hit with it for 11K in minstrel.

It's pretty clear it isn't meant as a heal spec first and foremost as heal modifiers are 0.22 scaling, with Saint Shield dodge at 0.5 scaling. If for example Selfless Spirit scaled as well as "wash the pain away" or "receive the light" it would be stronger as a support. Therefore, the support abilities in Kurzick side are more for resustain in a similar fashion to soulcleave summit, scourge's condi cleanse and barrier, elementalist water attunement, and firebrand tomes on a DPS build. Most of the time you will be on Luxon side unless you need to deep clear 5 conditions. Since you only have one dodge, it also makes sense there is an evade and gap closer on the dual legend.

If you are talking about lore-wise both of the legends stepped in to kill Shiro. That is the context of it in terms of theme.

See

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Scoobaniec.9561]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Having two legends in one was fine as a concept. I don't think that's the issue. The main issue is the dodge being finnicky especially with terrain and the fact that one dodge is still a gimmick even when supplemented with the alliance legend's evades.

If you played it in beta , the first iteration had Luxon/Kurzick skills flip over automatically which was a train-wreck.

The Imperial Impact dodge extends boons, that in itself is already worthwhile. It isn't listed in tooltip but it also applies 8 to 10 might depending on game mode and protection. The Death Drop dodge on the other hand, is just a load of damage and even in WVW I've been hit with it for 11K in minstrel.

It's pretty clear it isn't meant as a heal spec first and foremost as heal modifiers are 0.22 scaling, with Saint Shield dodge at 0.5 scaling. If for example Selfless Spirit scaled as well as "wash the pain away" or "receive the light" it would be stronger as a support. Therefore, the support abilities in Kurzick side are more for resustain in a similar fashion to soulcleave summit, scourge's condi cleanse and barrier, elementalist water attunement, and firebrand tomes on a DPS build. Most of the time you will be on Luxon side unless you need to deep clear 5 conditions. Since you only have one dodge, it also makes sense there is an evade and gap closer on the dual legend.

If you are talking about lore-wise both of the legends stepped in to kill Shiro. That is the context of it in terms of theme.

See

 

This trailer make them seems even more of a joke. It took 3 people to take down one person which is actually our legend.

Its clear as day if we go by definition theres nothing legendary about them. Just cannon fodder. So the question begins as of why we needed another human(s) and cantha legend when we already have one in core rev? Bc expansion happened in cantha? It makes me wonder what Kalla has to do with PoF if thats their reasoning

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I was actually looking forward to vindicator until I saw the terrible dodge mechanic. Such a stupid design, completely kills the fun of the entire spec.

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:34 PM, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

This trailer make them seems even more of a joke. It took 3 people to take down one person which is actually our legend.

Its clear as day if we go by definition theres nothing legendary about them. Just cannon fodder. So the question begins as of why we needed another human(s) and cantha legend when we already have one in core rev? Bc expansion happened in cantha? It makes me wonder what Kalla has to do with PoF if thats their reasoning

Ironically in grothmar they hinted at asgeir being the next legend. Near the farm the renegade NPC from the trailers is speaking to a norn about their favorite legends, the norn brings up Kalla and asks a ton about her. BUT THE CHARR CHARACTER BRINGS UP ASGEIR STATING THAT HE IS THEIR FAVORITE NORN LEGEND. 

But no lets go with the two idiots who took down shiro, when in reality it was all Nika who did it. All they did was finish him but she's the one who actually fought him in the lore, and even to shiro's admission in the original game. He outright states that the other two would've been nothing if she had not fought him first.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

I hated Herald, a frigging boon bot with heal button that forgives almost literally everything to any kittening noob. I hated Renegade because it was downright dogshit at release (lol at 200% buffs) but I like Vindicator although it has some pretty broken stuff atm (GS 5 *cough* oneshots *cough* *cough*) But so do the some other classes.
 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Vasdamas Anklast.1607

[morsdood.1987]

I can only bear it in Open World tbh, it feels alright there but outside of that.. I can bench the same with another class that still gets to have 2 evades and utility instead of one ''offensive'' evade and no utility

I'll just continue playing Alac in Group content, if I need to be pure DPS I'll be Renegade

Edited March 14, 2022 by morsdood.1987

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:43 PM, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Ironically in grothmar they hinted at asgeir being the next legend. Near the farm the renegade NPC from the trailers is speaking to a norn about their favorite legends, the norn brings up Kalla and asks a ton about her. BUT THE CHARR CHARACTER BRINGS UP ASGEIR STATING THAT HE IS THEIR FAVORITE NORN LEGEND. 

But no lets go with the two idiots who took down shiro, when in reality it was all Nika who did it. All they did was finish him but she's the one who actually fought him in the lore, and even to shiro's admission in the original game. He outright states that the other two would've been nothing if she had not fought him first.

I actually think they may have designed the spec originally to be Aesgir but then shifted gears partway through.  Look at the icons for Archemorus (and battle dance on Viktor).  They’re oddly all “warrior with horned helmet” type icons which isn’t what Archemorus (or Viktor) are known for at all (whereas Aesgir’s helm is fairly similar).  There’s also precisely 5 different versions (the heal is just a color swap) of this “horned warrior” icon which is the perfect amount for heal/util/elite on rev.   Then looking at the other icons they’re all considerably more “spec appropriate” and none of them feature the horned warrior.  It’s definitely possible that Anet had originally designed part of a different e-spec before cannibalizing and  repurposing the icons (and probably skill animations) for Alliance. 

 

Just a theory ofc. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Thornwolf.9721]

5 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I actually think they may have designed the spec originally to be Aesgir but then shifted gears partway through.  Look at the icons for Archemorus (and battle dance on Viktor).  They’re oddly all “warrior with horned helmet” type icons which isn’t what Archemorus (or Viktor) are known for at all (whereas Aesgir’s helm is fairly similar).  There’s also precisely 5 different versions (the heal is just a color swap) of this “horned warrior” icon which is the perfect amount for heal/until/elite on rev.   Then looking at the other icons they’re all considerably more “spec appropriate” and none of them feature the horned warrior.  It’s definitely possible that Anet had originally designed part of a different e-spec before cannibalizing and  repurposing the icons (and probably skill animations) for Alliance. 

 

Just a theory ofc. 

I wouldn't doubt it 

[Whiskers.7346]

I went back to Renegade.

[Anonynja.3172]

Thought this would be another rant post, but your comments are all spot on. Quality criticism. 

Vindicator is "good enough" and even satisfying to play because it can hit the numbers. I can do DPS benchmarks, heal benchmarks. So it technically performs well. But that says nothing about the rushed design and feel of the class, or the lack of internal synergy. This seems to be true across the board for EoD e-specs. They hit the benchmarks, but the designs feel off in many cases. Catalyst and Untamed are great examples - you can do awesome DPS with them! And they open the potential for complex play. Yet they feel rushed, not fully thought through. Numbers can just be tweaked up and down - that's a small part of the design work. At the end of the day, Anet needs to design good UX (user experience) for the specs.

• Why would I switch between Saint Viktor and Archemorous? They have zero synergy with each other. I am either rolling DPS or healing. Neither the skills nor the trait line reward switching between these legends.
• What is the thematic concept behind the dodge? Visually, why am I leaping into the air? Aren't I a mists warrior? Why am I suddenly a high jumper instead of doing the thing that makes my class unique, moving in and out of the mists? 
• How does my new dodge synergize with the rest of my kit? Why can't I cast any skills while I'm dodging, or precast to combo with my dodge? Why am I encouraged to simply dodge on cooldown?
• What is the purpose of Energy Meld? Just look at Herald's Facet of Nature and Renegade's Orders from Above. Matter of fact, hop on core revenant and look at Ancient Echo. Now look back at Energy Meld. Tell me that wasn't slapped on last minute.

My hunch is that Anet sacrificed time revising e-specs after the last beta to polish other critical features of End of Dragons. I sincerely hope they go back and commit time to making significant changes to the e-specs when the dust settles from launching the expac.

 

[Phoenix the One.4071]

.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Phoenix the One.4071
Dobbelt post

[Phoenix the One.4071]

I enjoy playing the vindicator and use Viktor for my cleanse and an extra healing, just to switch back to Arche or Shiro for more dmg.

 

that said the points are still valid.

I like the animation for the jump, but thematic it is weird. 
We might as well vanish into the mist and come crashing down from the sky, but appearing behind the enemies like shadow stepping would be wiser.

ohh and the whole Greatsword animation is also a bit funny.

I do not think that they gonna change much tbh, I think the devs feels pretty good about all the new elite specs.

[ShionKreth.1542]

My theory for vindicator is it was supposed to have some theme that the jump dodge was an integral part of, but then it was changed and changed during development until that was the only element of the original design left. 

[Catchyfx.5768]

Most weird is, rev doesnt have traits or playstyle that will add up to dodge change. Do you think they logged after PoF on rev looked at retribution and said.. hmmm 25% for dodge and vigor on evade, thats enough?

Teef got one extra.

Mirage have planty of ways to work around this.

We can facetank or use 40energy skill to extra dodge or camp blue guy

 

Thats the reason why it is so punishing. No synergy with anything.

Same with condi cleanse. Non existant.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Catchyfx.5768
Gramar

[Kulvar.1239]

15 hours ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Most weird is, rev doesnt have traits or playstyle that will add up to dodge change. Do you think they logged after PoF on rev looked at retribution and said.. hmmm 25% for dodge and vigor on evade, thats enough?

Teef got one extra.

Mirage have planty of ways to work around this.

We can facetank or use 40energy skill to extra dodge or camp blue guy

 

Thats the reason why it is so punishing. No synergy with anything.

Same with condi cleanse. Non existant.

I assume the logic was that you would use St Viktor/Shiro dodges or GS4 to block to compensate for the lack of endurance.

[Catchyfx.5768]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

I assume the logic was that you would use St Viktor/Shiro dodges or GS4 to block to compensate for the lack of endurance.

 I get it but check energy cost and initialy we were 10sec cd on utility skill, thats not a lot.

[Eckee.4038]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:20 PM, Anonynja.3172 said:

Thought this would be another rant post, but your comments are all spot on. Quality criticism. 

Vindicator is "good enough" and even satisfying to play because it can hit the numbers. I can do DPS benchmarks, heal benchmarks. So it technically performs well. But that says nothing about the rushed design and feel of the class, or the lack of internal synergy. This seems to be true across the board for EoD e-specs. They hit the benchmarks, but the designs feel off in many cases. Catalyst and Untamed are great examples - you can do awesome DPS with them! And they open the potential for complex play. Yet they feel rushed, not fully thought through. Numbers can just be tweaked up and down - that's a small part of the design work. At the end of the day, Anet needs to design good UX (user experience) for the specs.

• Why would I switch between Saint Viktor and Archemorous? They have zero synergy with each other. I am either rolling DPS or healing. Neither the skills nor the trait line reward switching between these legends.
• What is the thematic concept behind the dodge? Visually, why am I leaping into the air? Aren't I a mists warrior? Why am I suddenly a high jumper instead of doing the thing that makes my class unique, moving in and out of the mists? 
• How does my new dodge synergize with the rest of my kit? Why can't I cast any skills while I'm dodging, or precast to combo with my dodge? Why am I encouraged to simply dodge on cooldown?
• What is the purpose of Energy Meld? Just look at Herald's Facet of Nature and Renegade's Orders from Above. Matter of fact, hop on core revenant and look at Ancient Echo. Now look back at Energy Meld. Tell me that wasn't slapped on last minute.

My hunch is that Anet sacrificed time revising e-specs after the last beta to polish other critical features of End of Dragons. I sincerely hope they go back and commit time to making significant changes to the e-specs when the dust settles from launching the expac.

 

Yep, my points.

I don't care about the numbers, as I said before, they can be adjusted. You can create a spec with 50k dps skill, 1200 defiance damage with 12 sec stun, another skill applying 25 stacks of vuln and might. That wouldn't make it a good spec. Similarly, you can boost Vindicator skill numbers and make it a 50k dps benchmark spec, this still wouldn't make it a great spec.

I'm interested in the lack of design principles.

As some kind of a designer myself (architect), playing this spec hurts me so much. It doesn't carry anything from the original Revenant design principles.

 

Some people said Renegade wasn't good either, well I agree but I tried to focus on Vindicator only because Rene is a dead horse at this point. And at least short bow skill animations and effects feel like they belong to Revenant and the trait line can be adapted to many different play styles with different legends.

[Zenith.7301]

Most builds don't even provide reliable vigor, so Vindicator's trait enhancing Vigor is completely kitten as you only get 4 seconds of vigor per dodge on a meta DPS vindicator build with no reliable external providers of vigor in a raid.

 

And for some reason Energy meld is still terrible with a cast time and 10 energy cost for half a dodge bar and nothing else.