KeoLegend.5132 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) We are supposed to fight the "final fight" on the map. My suggestion would be, once Soo-won is summoned, instead of making players go up if and when they wish to do so, why not just simply teleport every single living soul on the map right into the fray? It wouldn't fix everything, but at least help a lot because more people = more DPS (usualy). If someone doesn't want to do Soo-Won they could simply teleport out of the map and then teleport back. Once Soo-Won is summoned, the map is locked and new players gets inside a new instance of the map Edited March 31, 2022 by KeoLegend.5132 3 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) If someone didn’t want to do Soo-Won, and were willing to teleport out of the map, why didn’t they do that before the escort? Teleporting players to the platform at the start wouldn’t affect DPS. Locking an instance prior to the boss fights means those that get disconnected cannot rejoin. Edited March 31, 2022 by mythical.6315 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blp.3489 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 But taking the zip line right through a wall is one of my favorite parts! I suspect that players that don't want to participate would not appreciate being dragged in, would only result in more scaling, and might end up being "those guys" that you have to revive over and over. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I don't think that's a good idea. If I was doing my own thing in a map and suddenly found myself teleported somewhere different just because an event chain I was not participating in had moved to a new phase I probably wouldn't join in or log out to switch to a different version of the map. I'd stand there for a bit looking at the map to work out where I'd been moved to and how to get back where I was - in this case gliding off the platform, then I'd do that. In this case I know that would be extremely unhelpful so I'd feel a bit guilty about doing it, but if I didn't know all about the meta event and how it works I may not realise that. Either way pulling me out of whatever I was doing and dumping me in the middle of a seemingly random event is not a good way to force my participation and would also be quite annoying. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 39 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: My suggestion would be, once Soo-won is summoned, instead of making players go up if and when they wish to do so, why not just simply teleport every single living soul on the map right into the fray? Because the dude working on catching the last quarry fish they need for their Dragon's End fishing achievement is just going to hop off the Harvest Temple and glide back to the quarry to keep fishing or simply abandon the map whenever the meta is getting close to go time. Moving people unwillingly to the meta fight won't make them any more likely to participate and will, in fact, only add more clutter and dead bodies to an already visually-intense fight. The real easy fix for the DE meta is to tune it for the majority of the population and introduce a challenge mode instance of some kind at current (or higher level) difficulty and coordination for those who prefer more of a challenge. Everything else is just dancing around the true issue which is that while some people are fine doing this meta, the numbers show a worrying trend that most people either aren't bothering with Soo-Won or aren't coming back after doing the event a single time. 10 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Nah. The largest problem is not the difficulty, its the length and this doesnt solve it. If you have a 40 min (overall) long event, people will fail but will come back and try again even if they were far off the mark. With time people will learn and more people would be able to carry (lets not fool ourselves a decent portion of players are being carried in all meta events). The failure rate might be higher as an average meta but still manageable and thats not bad in my opinion. The fight itself is not even complex. TTT is way more complex and requires coordination between 3 squads otherwise its insta fail. Here you have 1 platform with fairly standard mechanics. The patterns are not that hard to learn if people have the time to do it. But now people just dont have the time. From what I see even in organised groups with a decent portion of good players, many of them just dont know what to do with bubbles and most crucially whirlpools. They dont know how cruicial killing Thornhearths ASAP is and why you actually need to kill the tail and how to spot it in advance. Its not that these are super complex mechanics, you have plenty of visual and sound clues. All these people can easily time the synchro kills on the sub bosses. Its just that they dont have the time to get enough runs in to figure out what to do. And on top the fight is a visual kitten show but hey thats just gw2 standard which I guess Anet is forever deaf about. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 47 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said: If someone didn’t want to do Soo-Won, and were willing to teleport out of the map, why didn’t they do that before the escort? Teleporting players to the platform at the start wouldn’t affect DPS. Locking an instance prior to the boss fights means those that get disconnected cannot rejoin. Its not easy to change maps in GW2. Ive tried sometimes and kept joining the same map until it got full. Teleporting all players to the platform is an increase of DPS because theres lots of ppl that doesn't get into the plateau on time. Im tired of starting Soo-won with 35 out of 50 players. 45 minutes ago, blp.3489 said: But taking the zip line right through a wall is one of my favorite parts! I suspect that players that don't want to participate would not appreciate being dragged in, would only result in more scaling, and might end up being "those guys" that you have to revive over and over. I love the zip-line too. Maybe keep them, idk? My point is, players who doesn't want to participate needs to be kicked out to a new instance once the "real" meta of DE starts (meaning after preparation time). It's the most important meta story-wise, and i see Anet tried to make it the great boss fight, so it should be all or nothing (at least on the map that started the meta) 40 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said: I don't think that's a good idea. If I was doing my own thing in a map and suddenly found myself teleported somewhere different just because an event chain I was not participating in had moved to a new phase I probably wouldn't join in or log out to switch to a different version of the map. I'd stand there for a bit looking at the map to work out where I'd been moved to and how to get back where I was - in this case gliding off the platform, then I'd do that. In this case I know that would be extremely unhelpful so I'd feel a bit guilty about doing it, but if I didn't know all about the meta event and how it works I may not realise that. Either way pulling me out of whatever I was doing and dumping me in the middle of a seemingly random event is not a good way to force my participation and would also be quite annoying. If you are doing ur thing on a map that is trying to run the meta you should do your thing in another map. The meta should take priority over everything else. You wouldn't see capable warriors fishing while the biggest threat is about to finish the world just a couple meters away. If you got kicked out or warped in for the first time could be weird, but after the 1st time you would learn what happened and how work it out. 36 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said: Because the dude working on catching the last quarry fish they need for their Dragon's End fishing achievement is just going to hop off the Harvest Temple and glide back to the quarry to keep fishing or simply abandon the map whenever the meta is getting close to go time. Moving people unwillingly to the meta fight won't make them any more likely to participate and will, in fact, only add more clutter and dead bodies to an already visually-intense fight. The dude catching their fish got his last warn when the meta started. If he intended to stay there its his fault. 36 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said: The real easy fix for the DE meta is to tune it for the majority of the population and introduce a challenge mode instance of some kind at current (or higher level) difficulty and coordination for those who prefer more of a challenge. Everything else is just dancing around the true issue which is that while some people are fine doing this meta, the numbers show a worrying trend that most people either aren't bothering with Soo-Won or aren't coming back after doing the event a single time. Yes but this won't happen anyway 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: Its not easy to change maps in GW2. Ive tried sometimes and kept joining the same map until it got full. You generally wait until the map is full otherwise there’s no reason for players not doing the meta to leave. If people are not trying to get into the instance, why would others not doing the meta need to leave. That’s just my train of thought on the matter. 13 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: Teleporting all players to the platform is an increase of DPS because theres lots of ppl that doesn't get into the plateau on time. Im tired of starting Soo-won with 35 out of 50 players. Players have like three minutes to get up there before Soo-Won is targetable. They can get up there by taking two zip lines or taking the WP from the airship. If they are unable to get there within that amount of time, I question what it is that they are actually doing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said: Players have like three minutes to get up there before Soo-Won is targetable. They can get up there by taking two zip lines or taking the WP from the airship. If they are unable to get there within that amount of time, I question what it is that they are actually doing. I agree with you. I also question myself. Thats the issue. Thats why they need to be forced up if the time expires. There's nothing more demotivating than working 2 hours on a map just to have 34 people in the plateau 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 18 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: Its not easy to change maps in GW2. Ive tried sometimes and kept joining the same map until it got full. Teleporting all players to the platform is an increase of DPS because theres lots of ppl that doesn't get into the plateau on time. Im tired of starting Soo-won with 35 out of 50 players. I love the zip-line too. Maybe keep them, idk? My point is, players who doesn't want to participate needs to be kicked out to a new instance once the "real" meta of DE starts (meaning after preparation time). It's the most important meta story-wise, and i see Anet tried to make it the great boss fight, so it should be all or nothing (at least on the map that started the meta) If you are doing ur thing on a map that is trying to run the meta you should do your thing in another map. The meta should take priority over everything else. You wouldn't see capable warriors fishing while the biggest threat is about to finish the world just a couple meters away. If you got kicked out or warped in for the first time could be weird, but after the 1st time you would learn what happened and how work it out. The dude catching their fish got his last warn when the meta started. If he intended to stay there its his fault. Yes but this won't happen anyway I've been fishing on the map. If you even accept a new map instance and stay on the same map, you lose your fishing stacks. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said: You generally wait until the map is full otherwise there’s no reason for players not doing the meta to leave. If people are not trying to get into the instance, why would others not doing the meta need to leave. That’s just my train of thought on the matter. If you're not participating in the meta, so you're not in a squad and potentially not even paying attention to map chat, how do you know that it's full and people are trying to get in? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy.5981 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) Definately not. It should be optional as to whether or not you participate in an open world event, even the Dragon's End meta. What would be a better solution to this Meta, would be for Anet to add some of the mechanics for the Soo Won fight, into the pre-events down the left, right and middle lanes. That way players who may not have encountered these types of mechanics previously will get an insight into how they work before they get to the main fight. Hopefully during the main fight they will think "Ah-ha I've seen this before and this is what you need to do..." Edit - as an example we fight two Saltspray Dragons down the Left and Right side - add in the tidal wave mechanic to their fights. I'm sure other Soo Won mechanics could be implemented into the other fights? Edited March 31, 2022 by Andy.5981 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donari.5237 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Our squad tries *not* to get everyone to the platform asap. One or two designated sorts go up to drop the waystations and set markers while the rest take only the first zip line until told to go up. We still all get there with time to spare. This may be a habit from when that helped with the Soo Won scaling, but it also keeps things nicely organized. Of course this is with a pre-made squad that has been working the map prep, getting stacks, sending designated groups on the escorts, etc. We're all there for the meta and while some random extra people may be in the map, we are definitely getting 50 on the platform. So I have been fortunate enough not to encounter the problem this thread is trying to solve. But our squad would not enjoy being yoinked up, especially those with longer load times that would rather use the zip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 29 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said: If you're not participating in the meta, so you're not in a squad and potentially not even paying attention to map chat, how do you know that it's full and people are trying to get in? This would typically rely on the commander to say something as this would be indicated by those trying to get into a map instance but receive a message that the map is full. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: I agree with you. I also question myself. Thats the issue. Thats why they need to be forced up if the time expires. There's nothing more demotivating than working 2 hours on a map just to have 34 people in the plateau I don’t believe that forcing players onto the platform would accomplish anything. If there are players intentionally avoiding the meta, and not going up there at the appropriate time, chances are they won’t remain there after teleported. It also wouldn’t sit well with players who happen to be doing other things. I recall the Dragonfall meta porting the entire map to the chests after a success which interferes with those doing other things such as map completion. Edited March 31, 2022 by mythical.6315 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterousGecko.6328 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I think it says a lot about the final fight if people are engaging in the prep for the fight and just leaving for the actual fight. Instead of forcing people into the fight, maybe looking at WHY people aren't fighting would be a better start. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Bandit.3786 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I do like the fact you are trying to think of a solution, but this is not it. 1. Forced Teleport makes a lot of players be weary of the map and avoid it completely. Chasing players out of a map (read map, not a specific instance) It is a mechanic that a lot of people loathe, me included. 2. As someone mentioned, they are fishing, they are building up party stack on their boat. It is right to force them up the platform, away from their boat and loose their stack, that could've taken a long time to build up? It already is a joke that you do not keep stacks of things when switching maps. That is a shortcomming in this game. Battery Charges, buffs, stacks from sigils, stacks from party boat, all lost on map change for a worthless reward. (Since the amount of things we get in stacks is increasing, one could argue that ArenaNet need to fix this for voluntairy map instance swapping) 3. You run the risk that people start to "boycot" the Meta. "you forced me here and make me abandon what I was doing, so I will remain here... dead... scaling... good luck" Those are just a few example. The problem with the meta is simple: Too long Too high risk of loosing to RNG Too little incensitive (read loot) specially on fail. 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansNcornbread.6708 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 (In jest) Just scrap the whole fight and start over. It's too long, not enough rewards, quality of rewards are poor, and the event is not up frequently enough. People are staying for the event train then not fighting the Meta because the loot is for sure going to drop in the 1 hour pre meta. Just redo it. Seriously though, increase dmg done and stun time when cc bar breaks and add a few more minutes to timer. That would probably solve the problem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: Teleporting all players to the platform is an increase of DPS because theres lots of ppl that doesn't get into the plateau on time. Im tired of starting Soo-won with 35 out of 50 players. Only if those players want to participate. If they don't, they will just scale the event up, and then glide off, or just remain dead on the floor. 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: My point is, players who doesn't want to participate needs to be kicked out to a new instance once the "real" meta of DE starts (meaning after preparation time). It's the most important meta story-wise, and i see Anet tried to make it the great boss fight, so it should be all or nothing (at least on the map that started the meta) It's the other way around - the meta should be made a separate instance that does not affect the real map. Fishing is serious business, and should never be interrupted by outside interference just because some people want to have a fight. 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: If you are doing ur thing on a map that is trying to run the meta you should do your thing in another map. And then that map also starts trying to run the meta, and you need to leave? No, thanks. 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: The meta should take priority over everything else. Why? Because you said so? Again, no, thanks. I don't want the game to present me with a set of different goals to do on that map only for it to later change its mind and tell me that only one of those goals really counts. 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: You wouldn't see capable warriors fishing while the biggest threat is about to finish the world just a couple meters away. You haven't met many avid fishers, have you? 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: If you got kicked out or warped in for the first time could be weird, but after the 1st time you would learn what happened and how work it out. Yes. Glide off the platform and go back to doing what i was doing before, or just remain dead on the platform scaling up the event. Honestly, why would anyone even want me there, if i do not want to participate? 11 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: The dude catching their fish got his last warn when the meta started. If he intended to stay there its his fault. No. It's Anet's fault for introducing other things to do on that map besides the meta, and for introducing penalties (like losing stacks of party fishing bonus) for changing map instance. 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: No. It's Anet's fault for introducing other things to do on that map besides the meta, and for introducing penalties (like losing stacks of party fishing bonus) for changing map instance. Imagine racking up max fishing bonus, then getting ported to the meta. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune.9572 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) Make fishing party buff stick on map change, fill quarry & caves with toxic gas void when meta starts. Easy solution, next. Edited April 1, 2022 by rune.9572 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 1 hour ago, rune.9572 said: Make fishing party buff stick on map change, fill quarry & caves with toxic gas void when meta starts. Easy solution, next. That's not a solution, that's a problem in the making. The fishers have as much right to be on that map doing their stuff as anyone else. If Anet did not intend them to be there, they would not have placed fishing spots there. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share Posted April 1, 2022 51 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: That's not a solution, that's a problem in the making. The fishers have as much right to be on that map doing their stuff as anyone else. If Anet did not intend them to be there, they would not have placed fishing spots there. i agree but disagree, but i also understand, as fun as it sounds. Maybe Dragon's End should have been a completely dedicated meta map with nothing else to do, so ppl not interested in the meta wouldn't even get in, besides story and completion, maybe? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 50 minutes ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: i agree but disagree, but i also understand, as fun as it sounds. Maybe Dragon's End should have been a completely dedicated meta map with nothing else to do, so ppl not interested in the meta wouldn't even get in, besides story and completion, maybe? Well, making it a Dragonstorm-style instance would indeed have been one of the solutions. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 They should call it "Soon-Won" in that case. Ha. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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