Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) Linked here: Thoughts? Edited May 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Seems about right on EU at least. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity.2876 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Personally I would have put blade sworn and mirage in A and core thief on C but other wise I agree 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Eh, he's got some listings there I definitely don't agree with. It's also hard to tell what's true and what isn't when there is so much match manipulation and anyone on any class can make a build archetype look good. It's true you know. 1 5 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Move holo up to A+, core necro core ranger up to high B/low A 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aymnad.9023 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) It is going to be my first season with eod specs so I cannot comment too much about those (except for one). I have mostly played unranked after the mat which obviously had an impact on the representation of the professions. Overall my list (outside of eod specs) would be close but this is only relevant for a small % of the playerbase (starting around high gold 3 in eu) and is limited to what people consider the “highest value build” (for example core guard has a lot more variety than just support, adding a lot fun to this "profession"). Just because I want to nitpick : Some choices are extremely good if you have a duo (like herald) but there are safer picks if you are solo. I would rate scourge at least D. I can make some stuff happen when I play it. Mirage might be close to A Right now I would still recommend soulbeast over untamed the majority of the time just because my experience with untamed has been inconsistent. Edited May 4, 2022 by aymnad.9023 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 He's going at it from the perspective of you being the best player in your match and you need to hyper carry weaker players. If you are an average/weak player in your given match tankier more passive duelist builds like mechanist are far better than dps roamers. 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 I was surprised how well he placed some specs which are percieved to be too weak/strong by the average player. I wonder if there is anyone with comparable oversight of the game working for A-net. 1 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 How is Untamed a S class?....you literally do not see the spec being played outside pvp onetrick pony mode, a class design perceived as OP in one game mode and trash in others, the lack of consistency is due to class perception....you actually have less sustain than core ranger if you fail to land ambush kills and outside the 10% dmg reduction....the untamed traitline is inferior to soulbeast and druid lines. An ok spec in PvE and completely ignored in WvW where it lacks the stability and mobility to keep up with soulbeast 4 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newholiday.8103 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said: How is Untamed a S class?....you literally do not see the spec being played outside pvp onetrick pony mode, a class design perceived as OP in one game mode and trash in others, the lack of consistency is due to class perception....you actually have less sustain than core ranger if you fail to land ambush kills and outside the 10% dmg reduction....the untamed traitline is inferior to soulbeast and druid lines. An ok spec in PvE and completely ignored in WvW where it lacks the stability and mobility to keep up with soulbeast Yeah, mostly agree with the tiers but definitely some odd choices. Untamed is definitely not S-tier. Who struggles against untamed? Mostly just need to watch out for sudden pet swipe. DE is just shut down way too easily with any type of projectile denial. Shouldn't really be A+ tier. Scourge is bad, but it's not that bad. Same with the chrono and core mes. All three should be at least c-tier. Ele builds also seem over-rated. Low A-tier at best, but probably more accurate to put most of them in high B-tier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) You guys seem to have misunderstood how these are being rated. It's not a 1v1 tier-list. It's about which can snowball kills hardest to carry your team in solo-queue. For that you need high burst damage and mobility. If you get stuck in a long 1v1, you're not carrying. Nobody is saying that Harbinger is #1 best 1v1 class. That's why, for example, Deadeye and Untamed are rated so high, even though, for example, core-ranger and weaver have much greater 1v1 potential. Slowly winning 1v1s doesn't carry solo-queue ranked. This is about zooming around the map ganking 2v1, not about "glorious honourable 1v1". Edited May 5, 2022 by Ragnar.4257 3 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 @Arheundel.6451 if i gues right its s Tier cause its basicly q plus 1 class (with Port gs qnd hard damage) but could somehow also deal pretty good in a 1v1 or 1vx Situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) If this list is based on how well you can carry a gold/Plat rankedgame... it is SPOT ON. i fully understand what diffrent people are saying tho: "Untamed is not S-Tier" "DE is not A-Tier", etc. this is true for lowerelos. You will rarely find any good untamed until High gold/low plat. And same for DE.... This list is for high Gold and upwards i think. Edited May 5, 2022 by Sahne.6950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agrippastrilemma.8741 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Virtuoso overrated just like on his last tier list. Misha is currently doing a "soloq mesmer only to legend" and do you think he has played Virtuoso a single game? Edited May 5, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedywholesome.9081 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 12 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: He's going at it from the perspective of you being the best player in your match and you need to hyper carry weaker players. If you are an average/weak player in your given match tankier more passive duelist builds like mechanist are far better than dps roamers. Right on, that's was a a very astute observation on your part ArthurDent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) He's being surprisingly objective. Only big corrections I'd make: - Daredevil: It's not A+ tier. Daredevil was unmatched speed + stealth access for resets/sneaky decaps/fast kills. Shadow arts was nerfed, so no stealth. Everyone and their mothers can catch up to a daredevil, so no speed. Furthermore, you can't reset when there's a willbender around (which is all the kittening time). Thief in this meta can't do anything. Good riddance, but it's not A+. - Virtuoso\MirageTeaPot: "I saw Misha's playing it [virtuoso], he's convinced me"Misha's streaming title: SOLOQ MESMER ONLY TO LEGENDMisha's actual streaming: 9 matches on mirage, 1 on virtuoso. Basically one of the best mesmers in game running for his life for 3 hours straight, then getting yeeted back to gold 3.You can't make this kitten up. - Soulbeast I'd demote it. Good damage, but it's easy to shut down. Projectile hate\CC\condies\people porting on top of you will prevent you from doing stuff... all of that is very common. Overall, that's pretty much it. We could start asking some good questions, first one being "why pretty much everything on guardian is allowed to be so kittening strong", but this is not the best place to say those things. Edited May 5, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, thepolishman.2348 said: Yeah, mostly agree with the tiers but definitely some odd choices. Untamed is definitely not S-tier. Who struggles against untamed? Mostly just need to watch out for sudden pet swipe. There are like maybe 2 people that can play untamed well on NA so its not surprising that everyone thinks they are trash. Edited May 5, 2022 by Paradoxoglanis.1904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir.8561 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 About the core specs , how about we create lesser forms of their elites , and the cd is reduced with each crit ? For example Core ele > Lesser Tornado 30 cd > no hp bonus . Rev > Jade wind > aoe stun for 1 sec > energy cost is reduced by 30% , each time they use a 3-energy cost spell . Necro > Kameha...i mean Lich form > 30 sec > no hp bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 12 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: How is Untamed a S class?....you literally do not see the spec being played outside pvp onetrick pony mode, a class design perceived as OP in one game mode and trash in others Well, the tierlist was exclusively for sPvP. And Untamed's ranking in it is in part because of the fart cloud which cucks Harbingers. It does to Harbinger what Tempest used to do to Lich with Swirling and Mag Aura. If Harbinger was lower on it, Untamed would be lower too. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik.3401 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Noir.8561 said: About the core specs , how about we create lesser forms of their elites , and the cd is reduced with each crit ? For example Core ele > Lesser Tornado 30 cd > no hp bonus . Rev > Jade wind > aoe stun for 1 sec > energy cost is reduced by 30% , each time they use a 3-energy cost spell . Necro > Kameha...i mean Lich form > 30 sec > no hp bonus It is an interesting idea to enhance core skills slightly for core classes to balance them. I’m not sure if Anet would see it as equally as important - at the end the especs sell their expansions Edited May 5, 2022 by Mik.3401 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronometria.3708 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Why is it that T-Pot always insists that warrior is strong, despite it never seeing the light in competitive play? 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, chronometria.3708 said: Why is it that T-Pot always insists that warrior is strong, despite it never seeing the light in competitive play? Consider the agenda he is given from Arenanet, being their most popular streamer. 2 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuya.6495 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Tpot secret warrior hater? HMMMMM? 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said: Tpot secret warrior hater? HMMMMM? 🤔 I actually agree with his warrior placements, given the context. Id say the strata for the warrior lineup is about that distributed, with an asterisk next to bladesworn because I'm sure it outhealing damage through shouts isnt anets intent and will get it adjusted. MaT is a different story. Edited May 5, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuya.6495 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: I actually agree with his warrior placements, given the context. Id say the strata for the warrior lineup is about that distributed, with an asterisk next to bladesworn because I'm sure it outhealing damage through shouts isnt anets intent and will get it adjusted. MaT is a different story. It'd be a hell of an oversight to make an elite that synergizes with ammo utilities that didn't account for the fact that a lot of shouts use ammo and that warrior shouts are tied to warrior sustain builds. 🤷♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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