I hope WvW is not a selling point for this game.

[Remount.7832]

I may be mistaken but I've been told WvW is dependent on gear. After looking at the gear it seems it will take about 3-6 months of hardcore grinding or about $200-500 to buy most items needed. It's not exactly pay to win but maybe pay to get there faster. All that being said, what is the appeal to a new player or even a vet player who does not want to spend half their game life grinding a legendary gear. WvW seems very dull after watching videos, just watching zerg groups run back and forth and nobody really doing well except for support and casters. I don't see how this is fun or appealing. 

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm all about grinding. I have several 1%drop rate mounts from other games that have literally taken me years of grinding to get but the difference is those did not have an effect on my gameplay or give me an advantage in pvp.

 

Why would any player play WvW if they are at a clear disadvantage? I agree it may be fun but I doubt it's fun losing or not being able to do anything other than follow the zerg. I'm having trouble finding any appeal to this game type for anyone other than geared players.

 

If you have anything to add, agree, or disagree with please let me know in replies  I'm generally curious what others think about this.

 

 

[kiri.1467]

Exotics are fine.

[Xenesis.6389]

Legendaries are not something you need to function in every day game play. It's the top gear to get, but ascended carry the exact same stats and more widely available, the only difference is you get to quickly/freely switch stats/runes/infusions on legendary gear, while ascended have a cost to switch, it's just a matter of convenience. This isn't like WoW where you need to constantly upgrade your gear, ascended/legendary is the end all gear, that's why it takes so long to achieve. Exotics are also fine to use, your use of skills and positioning serves you way more in combat. There are many ways to gain exotics and ascended in wvw and pve, from drops, rewards, and vendor bought, so don't sweat it.

 

Wvw also has many different play styles to fall into, whether that be a commander, or be one of the zerg, pug zerging, roaming,  guild raiding, gvging, small group havocing, scouting, building/defending. Wvw isn't just about zerging, which a lot of new players tend to just fall into because they don't know any better, or for some reason can't function without hand holding and having someone tell them what to do.

 

Look up metabattle https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Find the class/spec you're interested in.

Play and find the role you like in wvw from the above mentioned.

Find a guild to learn more, have people to play with regularly.

Don't worry about rewards, if it's all you care about then pve is easier to get more of it.

Don't be afraid to die, this is pvp, you will die, there is no shame in that, learn from it, you can have fun finding new ways to get through fights in many different roles, my last few months were me using mesmer for pulls and yanking people off walls, 6 months before that I was using support scrapper to support pug zergs, 2 months before that I was solo roaming on core necro not the easiest to do with elite specs and cc spam around, 6 months before that I was using my boon corrupting scourge.

Wvw legendary is the last thing you should worry about in wvw.

 

Lastly, wvw isn't a selling point of the game, it was before it launched, but anet has neglected it for most of the past 10 years, including taking more than 4 years to develop the world restructuring we've all been waiting for. But, it's hella fun.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Junkpile.7439]

I once one shotted staff ele who got legendary weapon and i have only legendary back item. 🤯

[Nyth.6714]

There is no selling point for this game since it went f2p

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Xenesis.6389has the right of it.

 

there are 6 classes that have specializations that are welcome in zergs.  Three that, well, aren’t really.  When you look at metabattle, make sure you are looking at the play style you want.  Cen outlined the main ones.  Each subsection of play style in WvW has classes that perform better.  
 

For one small example, few guilds will run thieves or rangers in their zergs, but both tend to be above average for roaming and havocking.  
 

And lastly, GW 2 has never really shown well in video.  It’s also why there are very few streamers.  
 

You kinda have to experience it in WvW to either really get it, or don’t.  
 

Welcome btw.

 

[Kate.3679]

31 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Xenesis.6389has the right of it.

 

there are 6 classes that have specializations that are welcome in zergs.  Three that, well, aren’t really.  When you look at metabattle, make sure you are looking at the play style you want.  Cen outlined the main ones.  Each subsection of play style in WvW has classes that perform better.  
 

For one small example, few guilds will run thieves or rangers in their zergs, but both tend to be above average for roaming and havocking.  
 

And lastly, GW 2 has never really shown well in video.  It’s also why there are very few streamers.  
 

You kinda have to experience it in WvW to either really get it, or don’t.  
 

Welcome btw.

 

Honestly its probably 8/9 classes now that have a good spec for zergs, I've been seeing support spectres and eles aren't ever that bad in zergs

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I think that WvW is misunderstood.  The gear doesn't win battles, knowing how to play your class does.  Most people who just smash buttons and hope for the best aren't going to do so well, no matter how many legendary pieces they have on. 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 minute ago, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

I think that WvW is misunderstood.  The gear doesn't win battles, knowing how to play your class does.  Most people who just smash buttons and hope for the best aren't going to do so well, no matter how many legendary pieces they have on. 

 

This.

 

 And it’s true even of most other areas of the game.  

[ASP.8093]

16 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

I may be mistaken but I've been told WvW is dependent on gear. After looking at the gear it seems it will take about 3-6 months of hardcore grinding or about $200-500 to buy most items needed.

1. Stat-wise, Legendary gear is Ascended gear. It's just an item that replaces having multiple gear sets. It's actually much cheaper to just craft or collect 2-4 ascended gear sets.

2. Ascended gear is a bit (like 5%) stronger than Exotic gear. This is most noticeable with weapons (since they also get increased base damage) and trinkets (because they provide a lot of stats). I know people with 10k+ gold to their name who have never bothered to make Ascended armor for their WvW characters.

3. WvW is, by its nature, a game mode where you get to take all your PvE gains and apply them to competitive play. The expectation is that you will use crafting, Fractal drops, &c. to get ascended gear if that's what you want.

3. Exotic gear is free or dirt cheap. WvW gives you free boxes of stat-selectable exotic armor every week. You can also get state-selectable weapons from the various reward tracks.

4. The WvW ascended trinket vendor offers you a price reduction on trinkets (compared to buying them with just Laurels in PvE).

 

If you're currently at the stage where you're like, "Man, what is there to even *do* in WvW?" I can assure you ascended vs. exotic isn't going to make a huge difference for you. Just don't walk around in random yellows and greens.

Edited May 22, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Ashen.2907]

18 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

I may be mistaken but I've been told WvW is dependent on gear. After looking at the gear it seems it will take about 3-6 months of hardcore grinding or about $200-500 to buy most items needed. It's not exactly pay to win but maybe pay to get there faster. All that being said, what is the appeal to a new player or even a vet player who does not want to spend half their game life grinding a legendary gear. WvW seems very dull after watching videos, just watching zerg groups run back and forth and nobody really doing well except for support and casters. I don't see how this is fun or appealing. 

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm all about grinding. I have several 1%drop rate mounts from other games that have literally taken me years of grinding to get but the difference is those did not have an effect on my gameplay or give me an advantage in pvp.

 

Why would any player play WvW if they are at a clear disadvantage? I agree it may be fun but I doubt it's fun losing or not being able to do anything other than follow the zerg. I'm having trouble finding any appeal to this game type for anyone other than geared players.

 

If you have anything to add, agree, or disagree with please let me know in replies  I'm generally curious what others think about this.

 

 

You dont need legendary, or even ascended, gear for WvW.

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

You kinda have to experience it in WvW to either really get it, or don’t.  

You really do, playing in those moments rather than viewing from the outside on a video, you can see/tell what you do personally  may have affected the outcome, because there's so much flashy effects in the game everything tends to get buried in a light show or red rings, and all you can rely on from videos is either someone pointing out what just happened or look at numbers. Not as simple as watching some random battle royale and seeing a headshot and that's really all there is to get excited about.

So you have to play, know the classes and big skills being used to recognize what's happening, random viewing isn't going to seem appealing, other than seeing a ton of players on the screen. See that big light orange bubble, yeah that's a spellbreaker on your side that dropped winds of disenchantment, and they may have just changed the course of the entire fight with that one skill that blocks projectiles and removes boons, see that light blue bubble running around, yeah that's a scrapper shielding his group while also giving out stability to help with cc's, see that black/green circle with the cool necro icon in the middle on the ground yeah that's a well of corruption and it's about to remove buffs from the enemy which will lead to damage/cc bomb, see that prismatic rectangle strip on the ground or wall, yeah someone about to get pulled, if they don't have stability on. So many different things can happen in a wvw battle, rather than just a headshot to tell the tale.

/giggles not surprised by confused emote in the wvw forums.

🤭

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Ascended is just as good as legendary and there have been people who got full ascended in less then a week.

Get better sources.

[SWI.4127]

21 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

what is the appeal to a new player or even a vet player who does not want to spend half their game life grinding a legendary gear.

 

BiS gear is ascended.  Legendary has the exact same stat values as ascended, it's only there for the convenience of being able to change your stat type any time you're out of combat (basically QoL for vet players).  Seems like you just worked on the assumption that legendary > ascended, but didn't really look into it.

[Svarty.8019]

22 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

Why would any player play WvW if they are at a clear disadvantage? I agree it may be fun but I doubt it's fun losing or not being able to do anything other than follow the zerg.

I know it's not easy, but try to find some friends - some people to help show you what WvW is about. Not just any one thing. There are lots of different playstyles, but if you want to play WvW long term, you're looking at learning about supply, siege and defending. Attacking will happen whenever you join a zerg, so you can do that when there's a tag. Most of the time you will be looking for something to do in the period between tags.

 

There's a lot of strategy in the PPT side of things that certain elements of the community toot their noses at. It's important to ignore those elitists - just because they can 1v1 most enemies, it doesn't mean you have to play the game their way. There is more to WvW than combat.

 

Things like supply lines and scouting play important roles in guessing where enemies will go next, for example.  Another example would be: knowing that you can attack a structure from somewhere inconspicuous, hoping that the enemy don't spot your devious efforts. Take advantage when they are distracted - farming your noobs...  er... newbros.

 

It's quite rare that there is nothing you can do. Perhaps you're reduced to capping the merenaries on EB (hylek/dredge/ogres) - I acknowledge that it can often be pretty grim, but it's not usually hopeless.

There's no harm in learning to fight people 1v1, but it's certainly not the be-all-and-end-all of WvW.... and my final piece of advice is that a good build is better than skill. Find a ganking guild and ask them for a low intensity hybrid build. They may very well enjoy that challenge because they spend most of their time talking about skills.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Svarty.8019

[MedievalThings.5417]

22 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

I may be mistaken but I've been told WvW is dependent on gear. After looking at the gear it seems it will take about 3-6 months of hardcore grinding or about $200-500 to buy most items needed. It's not exactly pay to win but maybe pay to get there faster. All that being said, what is the appeal to a new player or even a vet player who does not want to spend half their game life grinding a legendary gear. WvW seems very dull after watching videos, just watching zerg groups run back and forth and nobody really doing well except for support and casters. I don't see how this is fun or appealing. 

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm all about grinding. I have several 1%drop rate mounts from other games that have literally taken me years of grinding to get but the difference is those did not have an effect on my gameplay or give me an advantage in pvp.

 

Why would any player play WvW if they are at a clear disadvantage? I agree it may be fun but I doubt it's fun losing or not being able to do anything other than follow the zerg. I'm having trouble finding any appeal to this game type for anyone other than geared players.

 

If you have anything to add, agree, or disagree with please let me know in replies  I'm generally curious what others think about this.

 

 

You can gear a level 80 toon in about 5 minutes, using just exotics from the trading post and be competitive.  I have a lot of baby alt accounts that I do this on.  The difference is 5% stats from my identical, fully legendary, main acct.  You may not have the flexibility, but you can absolutely compete if you know your class and play a competitive build.

[Littlekenny.4196]

23 hours ago, Remount.7832 said:

Why would any player play WvW if they are at a clear disadvantage? I agree it may be fun but I doubt it's fun losing or not being able to do anything other than follow the zerg. I'm having trouble finding any appeal to this game type for anyone other than geared players.

There is a difference between exotic and ascended but the difference in skill is way way more impact. If you look at the logs as a DPS and actually know how to get info from them (not just damage done), then you can see different groupings of people at different skill levels. The difference between exotic and ascended is not gonna come close to getting you to the next level but once you really know what you're doing it is useful to get a little higher within your group.

 

Tldr - it really doesn't matter if you have exotic or ascended until you are good and know what you are doing, the gear won't compensate for skill.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Exotic gear is fine for entry level zerg builds and can be gotten from basically anywhere. Ascended is top level gear stat wise so it is  great for min/maxing your build once you know what you're doing, although this arguably only makes a real difference to roaming builds. It is also easy to get in PvE from fractals or just gold farming, which is nice. I got my legendary gear by playing WvW using tickets, it's nice for people like me who love to experiment with builds but it really isn't essential to play WvW. 

[solemn.9670]

11 hours ago, Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

I think that WvW is misunderstood.  The gear doesn't win battles, knowing how to play your class does.  Most people who just smash buttons and hope for the best aren't going to do so well, no matter how many legendary pieces they have on. 

 

Looks like you upset some newbies with that one, judging by the sad/confused reacts on this perfectly reasonable post LOL. I just made my 3rd alt as a WvW main and exotics do just fine. OP's complaint is valid in a sense but you can do just fine without any grind whatsoever...

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:35 AM, kiri.1467 said:

Exotics are fine.

exotics are more tha fine and if u understand how to get gear, u get several ascended pieces early.

 

even on my high level accounts, i regularly make new characters to try new stuff (and have more storage space)... exotic stuff is super easy to get, really. it's lack of knowledge/information if u got issues there.

 

i have a 3 weeks old alt account that has yet like 2 armor parts, one weapon, amulet, backpack and two rings in ascended so yeah 😛

and no crafting involved there.

 

only stat change on asc box drops, bit cheating on the back due to transferring exo cantha armor for collection and the rings been plain drops too. the amu was bought from NPC vendor

Edited May 23, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[babana.7521]

I've used exotics in wvw for ages until they announce template only did i started to plan legendaries. 

[Luthan.5236]

You can calm down: It never used to be a selling point - except maybe for 1-2 years after the initial release in 2012. 😄

[Custodio.6134]

Just as it has already been said: the quality of the gear doesn´t impact the game as much as you might think. 
However: this doesn´t mean that it doesn´t make a difference. Because technically, every single point of damage/healing etc. can be the deciding point of staying alive, going to downstate or staying down long enough get get rallied. 

It is just, that expierience, knowlegde, skill and build have a way bigger impact than gear itself. Gear-wise, it´s not about having higher quality (ascended>exotic), but having the correct gear in combination with the correct build. 

It also depends on the playstyle to some extent. The bigger the groups fighting each other, the less "negative impact" do the players with worse gear have on the whole group 

[Svarty.8019]

7 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

You can calm down: It never used to be a selling point - except maybe for 1-2 years after the initial release in 2012. 😄

It was a selling point before release, but afterwards it was so popular that they had to spend a LOT of resources fixing it (thanks Habib).

[kash.9213]

People can say exotics are fine, but after a few times almost making it out alive with like a sliver of health, you're going to think about scrambling together a full set of best in slot.

WvW isn't open world so you're not growing up with your character and progressing through different level thresholds. You're already looking at significant stat changes going in and out of territory buffs and food and utility choices. 

WvW can't be a selling point of the game when it's hardly part of the rest of the game. The game doesn't even mention this game mode even ambiently in the open world maps or what to expect from it so the game doesn't prepare people beyond knowing they'll have to grind for Gifts which is usually the opposite of a selling point.

Edited May 23, 2022 by kash.9213