balance is awful please hire people that play multiple classes in wvw

[Loke.1429]

trying to lower my expectations here

[Justine.6351]

They can't afford a unicorn.

[Svarty.8019]

Promote Karl McLain! He's been a loyal and (I can't believe I'm saying it, but here goes) competent employee for a vast amount of time. Please give him the promotion he (and we) deserves!

[Ronin.4501]

I think the sad reality is that the classes/specs/skills/traits are worked on by the PvE devs with absolutely no input or thought to how it affects both SPvP and WvW, and then the devs who do work on SPvP/WvW are left to clean up the mess, and at this point everything is so out of whack they probably just throw their hands up in frustration and asked to be reassigned to something (anything) else.

[Justine.6351]

5 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

I think the sad reality is that the classes/specs/skills/traits are worked on by the PvE devs with absolutely no input or thought to how it affects both SPvP and WvW, and then the devs who do work on SPvP/WvW are left to clean up the mess, and at this point everything is so out of whack they probably just throw their hands up in frustration and asked to be reassigned to something (anything) else.

I doubt that is true for the most part. There are skills that simply wouldn't exist in their current form if that were true.

[Hotride.2187]

Just get the designer/developer staff (but don't touch the environment/artist staff, they are amazing) to do weekly gvgs vs the hardcore gvg guilds (I'd say do blob fights but there won't be enough staff...). And then make them solo roam for a couple of hours.

You know so its not just the players who suffer.

[LSD.4673]

10 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

I think the sad reality is that the classes/specs/skills/traits are worked on by the PvE devs with absolutely no input or thought to how it affects both SPvP and WvW, and then the devs who do work on SPvP/WvW are left to clean up the mess

I think the sadder reality is that there is no PvP dev, while the PvE devs are a tiny team who only look at balance rarely and broadly.

 

Thew new specs got loads of feedback over the betas, which was just about all ignored. That says a lot.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

57 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

Thew new specs got loads of feedback over the betas, which was just about all ignored. That says a lot.

This. They got an immense amount of feedback, and in the case of BSW rather consistent feedback, which Anet pretty much ignored.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This. They got an immense amount of feedback, and in the case of BSW rather consistent feedback, which Anet pretty much ignored.

stop spreading fakenews! 😉

They used the nice BSW feedback and simply slapped it ontop of Willybender 😂

Also... i have no clue what you guys are talking about. Balance is GREAT! I am playing celestial harbinger and i have no problems!  🤡

Edited June 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

51 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Also... i have no clue what you guys are talking about. Balance is GREAT! I am playing celestial harbinger and i have no problems!  🤡

As attested by some person in the necro thread about it:

We are all just noobs is all. Like if 2 competent roamers cant kill a cele harb, they should just login on their cele harbs. Easy, duh.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

stop spreading fakenews! 😉

They used the nice BSW feedback and simply slapped it ontop of Willybender 😂

Also... i have no clue what you guys are talking about. Balance is GREAT! I am playing celestial harbinger and i have no problems!  🤡

😄 Yeah, like how some of the things in our Omnibus thread for warrior made their way onto Willbender right?

[Shroud.2307]

Balance is bad because this community continuously refuses to learn and instead come here to complain unwilling to accept advice before they even post, or rant and bemoan the devs in game, on streams, or other mediums.

The game keeps getting dumber because the players keep demanding it. 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

 

15 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

I think the sad reality is that the classes/specs/skills/traits are worked on by the PvE devs with absolutely no input or thought to how it affects both SPvP and WvW, and then the devs who do work on SPvP/WvW are left to clean up the mess, and at this point everything is so out of whack they probably just throw their hands up in frustration and asked to be reassigned to something (anything) else.

 

People willfully ignoring that CMC, the PvP Balance dev…designed the classes. 
 

one instance of proof: mobility was creeped. He even stated this on stream. This is not even a bad thing but it is one of the philosophies incorporated in the design. Where does mobility actually matter? It’s definitely NOT PVE…so stop using this excuse

[Ronin.4501]

37 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

 

People willfully ignoring that CMC, the PvP Balance dev…designed the classes. 
 

one instance of proof: mobility was creeped. He even stated this on stream. This is not even a bad thing but it is one of the philosophies incorporated in the design. Where does mobility actually matter? It’s definitely NOT PVE…so stop using this excuse

Then what is their excuse?  That they're just incompetent?  Because the balance has gotten progressively worse as the years have gone by.

CMC designed the original classes, but did he also design all the specialties that followed?  The original 8 classes weren't balanced perfectly, but they were worlds better than the "balance" we saw in HoT, PoF, and now EoD.  Why is it everything that gets introduced is always so broken and has to be nerfed or buffed in the months that follow?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

58 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Then what is their excuse?  That they're just incompetent?  Because the balance has gotten progressively worse as the years have gone by.

 

I wouldn’t say incompetent no, as this is non charitable. The conclusion you should draw before saying “incompetence” is asking if the philosophy is flawed.

 

How deep does the rabbit hole go? How flawed exactly is the philosophies of current balance regime…and if you dig deep enough you find out just how flawed they are…in fact the conclusion you draw is that attempts to balance the game are meaningless.

 

Imagine I asked you to do a certain job…a job in which is futile, fundamentally impossible to achieve and essentially doomed to failure. Would it be fair to call you incompetent just because you weren’t able to do the job? Let’s approach the argument from a charitable view point to give us a stronger argument…Assume that CMC is not incompetent, Then what we would do is go search for the flaws that leads to the failure of that job. Search hard enough and you find that those flaws happen to be the balance philosophies, and that CMC executed this flawed philosophy well. 

PS: Small miscommunication, but CMC didn’t design the classes he designed the EOD elite specs. 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Rider.6024]

12 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Balance is bad because this community continuously refuses to learn and instead come here to complain unwilling to accept advice before they even post, or rant and bemoan the devs in game, on streams, or other mediums.

The game keeps getting dumber because the players keep demanding it. 

ok SHROUD.2307.....by any chance do you happen to play a good deal of necro?

[Shroud.2307]

5 hours ago, Rider.6024 said:

ok SHROUD.2307.....by any chance do you happen to play a good deal of necro?

I do. I also play the violin. Do you need a note? 🎻

[Kozumi.5816]

It's only an extreme coincidence that support scrapper carries the entire meta and is also what our game producer mains.

[Svarty.8019]

didn't

19 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

PS: Small miscommunication, but CMC didn’t design the classes he designed the EOD elite specs. 

The original 8 classes were designed by Jon Peters (who, along with Colin and Josh, worked on New World).

 

Jon Peters was critical of Anet's tweaking of numbers, claiming that small tweaks to numbers would break balance. The developers are on video as mocking the fact that they've got classes spamming masses of boons and the notion of tweaking tiny numbers as being ridiculous.

 

From this you can conclude that as time has gone on, balance has become less and less precise: entropy, if you will, chaos increases over time. See Also: Powercreep, Mudflation.

 

Balance has become less a goal and more a decision by the developers to nominate specific classes/specs/mechanics to be flavour-of-the-month. Non-FotM builds are meant to fall by the wayside by design.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Svarty.8019

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

9 hours ago, Rider.6024 said:

ok SHROUD.2307.....by any chance do you happen to play a good deal of necro?

what argumentation is that btw?

 

new necro is by far the worst necro specs released sofar. its only a fast-burstmode with a bit more mobility, but overall it is just horribly bad. nice gankerclass for sure... but honestly, with not grandpa reaction time every single class can gank, so that's also no pro

 

the most important necro for wvw got a lot of heavy nerfs in during the last years, target caps / dmg nerf and barely a class got hit so hard by the retaliation destruction (mainly guardian and necro i think)

________

@ topic ... yeah the balance is in fact not great, but it became way worse with every single balance patch that happened, starting with feb20 so ye

Edited June 21, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[Sahfur.5612]

I kinda predicted cele harbinger early on in the betas.

Just be glad they nerfed torment runes set bonus or it would have been even stronger at small scale/roaming.

They caught it in time though, but not before I took it for a test run in one of the betas. XD

 

It is fair for you to say that is mostly in small scale and roaming though, so I don't necessarily disagree there.

 

It might be hard to balance each way of playing the game but at least an attempt to somewhat balance some outliers should be made, imo. I do not think small scale and roaming is entirely irrelevant to balancing at all.

 

I do think it should be made a little less autopilot but it isn't the only build with that problem, it certainly makes a good example in the niche it is used though.

 

Edit:

I just hope they don't go TOO far with any of the upcoming nerfs because classes should have options in various niches that are strong. Strong, not autopilot. Some stuff definitely needs tuned down though.

I also hope they don't ruin even more core classes viability to balance the new specs. They have history doing that...

I agree with the overall sentiment of the thread, they need to hire people who play all the stuff and have them participate in each niche of wvw so they get a better idea where each spec should go without making them useless or too dominant.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sahfur.5612
Added a bit.

[Loke.1429]

hahahahahahaha, this topic was spot on it seems

[pallas.8150]

This thread, given recent internal revelations, has aged poorly. Just saying.

[Doggie.3184]

I'm just disappointed how many literally unused-by-anyone-for-years traits, weaponskills and utilities across every class are untouched. They only focus on the opposite.

That, plus feedback about new specs still ignored.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[RisenHowl.2419]

 

 

Oh, hello