ANet Update Announcement Feedback

[Ashantara.8731]

7 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

I am happy with the direction too, but not a big fan of the "repair system turn into another buff", and for raids i would have prefered a permanent easy mode on all of them, however that would take a whole team for loads of months.

Same.

I hope the endless repair canister will work like that as well (i.e., providing said buffs), or else RIOT.
 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Labjax.2465]

17 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

First of all, and I know this from real life experience, one person can do anything they want, because they're one person. But 300 people can't. They have to discuss stuff. They have to have meetings. They have to get stuff approved. What you see as something someone can write in an hour or two, probably takes a lot more work than an hour or two. What can you say? What can't you say? What might this information hungry community misunderstand? What will cause a portion of the playerbase to get up in arms.

Everything is easy when you're no the one that has to do it. Take it from someone who worked as a writer as part of a team.  It's time consuming to communicate for a company, more than you know.

Well since we're citing RL experience, I can tell you I have some experience with the patreon side of things from game modding and while it's technically true that you can say anything you want, the questions you bring up about what you can/can't say and what might be misunderstood are questions you have to consider there too if you are wanting to take it seriously. You just have to do all the roles and hope you have some idea how to handle PR well, or that people will be forgiving if you're messy about things.

I would not agree that everything is "easy" when you're the one that has to do it. Easier in the sense of doing it without approval yes, but also way easier to screw up or look unprofessional in a way that is off-putting.

So yes, it may be it's time consuming to communicate for a company "more than I know" considering I don't currently know that side of things, but the most important point here for me is consistency and that is what I'm most questioning, and I don't buy that because things are hard, consistency can't be done.

Things are hard is an explanation for why things are hard to do and sometimes a reason to be sympathetic and understanding, but it's not an adequate explanation for why they don't happen on its own. Things that are hard to do get done regardless on a regular basis. And that kind of sums up how I feel about it. I try not to be too harsh knowing real people are involved, but because of how this stuff is designed, I have to have limits to how understanding I can be with a faceless entity that is charging me money for a product, for my own boundaries sake.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Labjax.2465
phrasing

[Jheuloh.4109]

25 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Well since we're citing RL experience, I can tell you I have some experience with the patreon side of things from game modding and while it's technically true that you can say anything you want, the questions you bring up about what you can/can't say and what might be misunderstood are questions you have to consider there too if you are wanting to take it seriously. You just have to do all the roles and hope you have some idea how to handle PR well, or that people will be forgiving if you're messy about things.

 

Once upon a time I modded ARK: Survival Evolved. Then I moved onto mainline Unreal Engine because I kept doing stuff way out of bounds for what ARK was designed to support.

 

I've sometimes considered making a business name so that I can be an uneducated moron as this name and keep it classy on the business persona.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Jheuloh.4109

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Baseleader.4128 said:

Isn't this actually a big misconception?  Anet's intent was always to have difficult endgame content (like gw1 had difficult endgame content) they just struggled hard with the implementation of it and really overestimated Dungeon difficulty. Woodenpotatoes has talked a couple of times about this misconception.

That's another misconception. Sure, they were talking about how hard and challenging those dungeons were supposed to be... only to speak soon after how they expected everyone to do them. In fact, one of the reasons they got abandoned was because not enough players were interested. That's not an attitude devs usually hold towards content aiming at the group of top skilled more hardcore players.

Of course, we can't really be sure what they really thought about it, because we don't have (and never will have) any access to their internal communication, but you have to learn to read between the lines and look at their actual actions instead of taking everything they say as a face value. They have been known to put a PR spin on things before, and more than once. And their messaging about content is often anything but consistent anyway.

 

 

[Labjax.2465]

36 minutes ago, Jheuloh.4109 said:

 

Once upon a time I modded ARK: Survival Evolved. Then I moved onto mainline Unreal Engine because I kept doing stuff way out of bounds for what ARK was designed to support.

 

I've sometimes considered making a business name so that I can be an uneducated moron as this name and keep it classy on the business persona.

Heh, this reminds me of one of the other things tricky about it, specifically related to modding, is how you can easily mix your persona as a player and as a creator, and not take time to think through how that comes across. I don't think people usually notice much anyway, but there are definitely things I've said as a player of games that if I was trying to be full business persona, I would not say.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Biziut.3594]

4 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I like the coming changes . lets face it players that never stepped foot in a raid dont because they have a preconceived notion that everyone is a toxic elitist and they dont want to be judged. There is a lot of self responsibility in raiding and many dont like that idea if they mess up, I mess up that dont stop me though pick myself up accept my mistakes and push on.  raiding is no more difficult than learning a dungeon a meta a story boss, once you learn it you know it, so no reason to be put off from doing it. Its all in the mind, its just another type of event to learn. Did you know how to do the TD meta the first time you went? Did you know how to do Teq the first time, or triple trouble? No. You learned them, its no different in raids

I agree with you, but under one condition. What do you think a reward should be for clearing a wing with this upcomming buff? Becouse in my opinion there should be no Killproof for such kill, significantly lesser rewards (not like they are amazing in normal run), and no ability to finish any achivment except ones that can be done in already cleared wing. I think if ANet won't restrict it that way than maybe only few players will use it in intended way, when most will just take easy kill and won't bother to invest time into normal encounters. But these are just my thoughts, guess we shall see what it will look in reality soon enough.

[Dante.1508]

While i too like the direction. If its right, while they've shown us some of the additions, they have been very quiet about the nerfs as usual.

Don't count your chickens...

Anet and nerfs go hand in hand.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Solitude.2097]

11 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

I agree with you, but under one condition. What do you think a reward should be for clearing a wing with this upcomming buff? Becouse in my opinion there should be no Killproof for such kill, significantly lesser rewards (not like they are amazing in normal run), and no ability to finish any achivment except ones that can be done in already cleared wing. I think if ANet won't restrict it that way than maybe only few players will use it in intended way, when most will just take easy kill and won't bother to invest time into normal encounters. But these are just my thoughts, guess we shall see what it will look in reality soon enough.

You don't have to worry much . People , even with "echo' mode people wont volunteer t o start a group on their own + they won't knowthe "general consensus"   of what "normal" instance the majority are doing afterwards (so they can wait in that specific lfg , rather than circling  through dead space)

 

Edit2: The system 15 min after login could offer  the "echo' buff with  a ticking clock that is lowered with each sec(extra rewards-FOR THAT PLAYER ONLY(if its like PvP tourmanets , more LI/KP groups will be created)) and last for 6 hours , it might motivate them to start a group as fast as possible, rather than wait  .

And to guide/funnel them in the next  normal modes afterwards were the majority are ,guess what lure we can use again.

 

Or we could use an automatically tool like in Warcraft or portable scrying pool

Edited June 24, 2022 by Solitude.2097

[Gorem.8104]

10 hours ago, Baseleader.4128 said:

Isn't this actually a big misconception?  Anet's intent was always to have difficult endgame content (like gw1 had difficult endgame content) they just struggled hard with the implementation of it and really overestimated Dungeon difficulty. Woodenpotatoes has talked a couple of times about this misconception.

 

The idea that Gw2 is supposed to be a game that supports casual gameplay is very much a thing, but I believe it was always meant to be more about the whole "no gear progression stuff", not the lack of hardcore content.

Yeah but remember GW2 launched with no raids, and launched with the idea that there would be no trinity, no tanks, no healers. It was never about the "end game" content, cause end game was what you made it, yourself. There's people that choose Flying as their end game or fashion as their end game, there is no right way to play GW2, as much as Anet wants to force it. Is it because Raiders spend the most? 

 

A LFG tool that auto puts you into groups is also an excellent way to remove a key aspect of mmo's. I remember one time Blizzard told people "you'd not like to go back to before Auto LFG" when the entire crowd was against them and Vanilla WoW was a success before they ruined it. Auto LFG kills communities. It could be game ending for gw2 if they implemented it as it removes all need to actually talk to your fellow players. Just look at the public instances we have, DS is so quiet, yet in AB there's always chatter. 

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Well since we're citing RL experience, I can tell you I have some experience with the patreon side of things from game modding and while it's technically true that you can say anything you want, the questions you bring up about what you can/can't say and what might be misunderstood are questions you have to consider there too if you are wanting to take it seriously. You just have to do all the roles and hope you have some idea how to handle PR well, or that people will be forgiving if you're messy about things.

I would not agree that everything is "easy" when you're the one that has to do it. Easier in the sense of doing it without approval yes, but also way easier to screw up or look unprofessional in a way that is off-putting.

So yes, it may be it's time consuming to communicate for a company "more than I know" considering I don't currently know that side of things, but the most important point here for me is consistency and that is what I'm most questioning, and I don't buy that because things are hard, consistency can't be done.

Things are hard is an explanation for why things are hard to do and sometimes a reason to be sympathetic and understanding, but it's not an adequate explanation for why they don't happen on its own. Things that are hard to do get done regardless on a regular basis. And that kind of sums up how I feel about it. I try not to be too harsh knowing real people are involved, but because of how this stuff is designed, I have to have limits to how understanding I can be with a faceless entity that is charging me money for a product, for my own boundaries sake.

If you have a parent company like NcSoft, someone running the company, a game director and devs, what needs to be said needs discussion because the people writing it aren't necessarily deciding what is going to be said. Messaging for a big corporation is different from messaging for a guy who runs a small publishing company out of a single office. If there are five guys there and one guy is deciding of course it's easy.  It was easy for me when I was the only guy running my own thing. But being in the middle, having to write something for someone else's approval simply isn't the same thing. You can think it's fine and it might not be anything like what they want said. At the end of the day, everything is scheduled, including meetings, which could take some time if everyone is doing other things as well.  Again, it's just not that simple.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

19 hours ago, vanfrano.1325 said:

 the way of FFXIV which means a lot of talk, a lot of lies, damage control, pretending they care, pretending they're being honest and becoming PR machines.

what kind of parallele universe do you come from? as far as this reality is concerned activision blizzard does these things.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's another misconception. Sure, they were talking about how hard and challenging those dungeons were supposed to be... only to speak soon after how they expected everyone to do them. In fact, one of the reasons they got abandoned was because not enough players were interested. That's not an attitude devs usually hold towards content aiming at the group of top skilled more hardcore players.

Of course, we can't really be sure what they really thought about it, because we don't have (and never will have) any access to their internal communication, but you have to learn to read between the lines and look at their actual actions instead of taking everything they say as a face value. They have been known to put a PR spin on things before, and more than once. And their messaging about content is often anything but consistent anyway.

misconception of a misconception
actually people WERE interested, BUT they also some or a lot people complained they didn't get tokens fast enough. anet obliged and increased the amount of tokens gotten when completing a path. WHICH led to a very early end of the end game as people got their armors and weapons, runes and sigils and gifts faster than it was intended. (also arah paths were borked even then)
the "not interested" comes from people being DONE with dungeons. literally. there was NOTHING to gain from it for a LOOOOONG TIME. dungeons were meant to last but the increase in tokens was just not sustainable. and mind you this was when legendaries were JUST cosmetics and exotic was the highest level of gear. THIS is why they suddenly dropped ascended gear into the game and changed legendaries. And when the condition changes came about the majority of stats gained from dungeons was completely useless. only berserker and magi survived to be used to this day. at best only one piece of rampager is used to optimize a build but an entire set of it is not used.

i personally think that caving in to the demands of more tokens led gw2 to a path of alot of players being less skilled then the very basics of the game. Look at how many people think how suu won is hard even after 2 nerfs

Edited June 24, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Yeah but remember GW2 launched with no raids, and launched with the idea that there would be no trinity, no tanks, no healers. It was never about the "end game" content, cause end game was what you made it, yourself. There's people that choose Flying as their end game or fashion as their end game, there is no right way to play GW2, as much as Anet wants to force it. Is it because Raiders spend the most? 

 

A LFG tool that auto puts you into groups is also an excellent way to remove a key aspect of mmo's. I remember one time Blizzard told people "you'd not like to go back to before Auto LFG" when the entire crowd was against them and Vanilla WoW was a success before they ruined it. Auto LFG kills communities. It could be game ending for gw2 if they implemented it as it removes all need to actually talk to your fellow players. Just look at the public instances we have, DS is so quiet, yet in AB there's always chatter. 

GW2 launched with explorable mode dungeons which ANet described as being GW2's version of raids. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

20 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'm not too impressed that it took them months to tell us something.

This marginally increased "level of communication" isn't connecting them more to their player base in any way. If anything, these long periods of silence are widening the distance between players and Arenanet.

i prefer this way, talk less, work more.

 

its fact QOL updates increased a lot.

[Taclism.2406]

"some had nothing to do so here's these qol new features"
> Contrast cursor, better made through add-on
> No need to click repair ... ok?
> no improvement of LFG
> Still no option turn off others cosmetic infusion
Priorities bruh

Edited June 24, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Ashen.2907]

8 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

While daily reports would be a bit much, a bi-weekly or monthly blog post about the changes they intend to do would be reasonable. Leaving players in the dark for three months, however, is neither good nor even remotely commendable.

I think that quarterly updates in an environment where completion of projects of any significance is unlikely to require less than many months is reasonable.

[aleister.1425]

Just looking at my endless repair canister with sadness. Knowing in a few days time it was just a huge waste of grinding. As for the rest we shall see. 

[Obtena.7952]

Some big denial in this thread just to spread the vitriol. It's EXTREMELY unfair and dishonest to claim Anet has not improved how and how much they communicate their game plans with us, especially in the last 1-2 years. 

Maybe you don't like the game changes, or don't like things that haven't seen changes ... not a reason to crap on everything. The comms HAVE improved, enough to the point where if you are really on top of all the outlets, you know more than you need to. 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Jimbru.6014]

While I like the general direction things are going, I do have a few concerns.

- The possible overkill of everyone having the ability to provide buffs, leading to muddling up builds and roles even further than they already are.

- Many of the things talked about in the June 22 announcement seem like small things that could have been implemented one or two at a time at during the regular maintenance patches, instead of saving them all up for one HUGE game-altering balance patch that is sure to have troubles just due to its size.

[Gibson.4036]

40 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Some big denial in this thread just to spread the vitriol. It's EXTREMELY unfair and dishonest to claim Anet has not improved how and how much they communicate their game plans with us, especially in the last 1-2 years. 

Maybe you don't like the game changes, or don't like things that haven't seen changes ... not a reason to crap on everything. The comms HAVE improved, enough to the point where if you are really on top of all the outlets, you know more than you need to. 

 

Probably depends on when a person's expectations got set.

Recently there's been more communication than some long dry spells over the course of the game. But it's stil way less than what we were used to at the beginning of the game.

"All the outlets" is one of the problems. They really do love their reddit. Or revealing something to some random interviewer. It's weird how many times people have to post on the forums "Oh really, where did you hear that?" in response to someone quoting a dev.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Probably depends on when a person's expectations got set.

Recently there's been more communication than some long dry spells over the course of the game. But it's stil way less than what we were used to at the beginning of the game.

"All the outlets" is one of the problems. They really do love their reddit. Or revealing something to some random interviewer. It's weird how many times people have to post on the forums "Oh really, where did you hear that?" in response to someone quoting a dev.

Admittedly, the use of Reddit is ... weird. I can only think it's an 'unofficial' way Anet allows devs and other employees to use. I suspect forum comms are loaded with more bureaucracy and approval channels, so it's less used. 

Still, I can recall a time even at the beginning of the game where it was like ... you heard nothing. 

[robertthebard.8150]

12 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I like the coming changes . lets face it players that never stepped foot in a raid dont because they have a preconceived notion that everyone is a toxic elitist and they dont want to be judged. There is a lot of self responsibility in raiding and many dont like that idea if they mess up, I mess up that dont stop me though pick myself up accept my mistakes and push on.  raiding is no more difficult than learning a dungeon a meta a story boss, once you learn it you know it, so no reason to be put off from doing it. Its all in the mind, its just another type of event to learn. Did you know how to do the TD meta the first time you went? Did you know how to do Teq the first time, or triple trouble? No. You learned them, its no different in raids

You know, it doesn't have to be "everyone".  All it takes is one bad experience to turn a player off of group content.  Some of my favorite examples:

I'm playing DDO, on an Artificer.  One of my guildmates tells me there's a quest that I was fixing to run solo in the LFG panel, so I hit it instead.  The cleric starts in on me immediately because I have 298 HP, instead of 300.  She rags on for about 5 minutes about it, including in whispers, so I just drop group, and then solo the quest, on the same difficulty.  Not only did I finish before the group did, but, according to my guildmate, the cleric that was crying about my HP was the first one to die in their run.  I ignored the LFG panel after that, and just ran content with my guild.

In SWTOR, I was running a healer, and a DPS was complaining about the gear on the other healer being "sub-standard".  The DPS had all the right gear, and yet, once the raid started, which was a single area, with a single boss, they died in an attack that almost literally sends you an email letting you know it's coming.  So, apparently, someone carried them to "all the right stuff", but neglected to teach them how to play, or, they bought their account off of ebay or something.

In both of these I had guilds I could run the content with, and just ignored LFGs that were posted.  Some people aren't as thick skinned, or don't have guilds they can reliably fall back on for the content, and so, they'll just ignore it, not wanting to deal with it.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Some big denial in this thread just to spread the vitriol. It's EXTREMELY unfair and dishonest to claim Anet has not improved how and how much they communicate their game plans with us, especially in the last 1-2 years. 

Maybe you don't like the game changes, or don't like things that haven't seen changes ... not a reason to crap on everything. The comms HAVE improved, enough to the point where if you are really on top of all the outlets, you know more than you need to. 

 

Doood…. Why you go and say something I actually agree with Obtena…. It’s more fun disagreeing with you!!  

[Hotride.2187]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I get very frequent updates from Star Citizen about what's being changed, every couple of weeks. I've been getting those reports for about 8 years now.  I sure hope the game comes out one day.

Thats a low bar for expectations though.

[Dante.1508]

Other than some of the new EoD class specs (which for me have been amazingly fun) i had not seen any improvement in classes over GW2 lifetime, its been a never ending list of nerfs and debuffs since release.. Its great if others disagree but for me its been a hot mess classes wise..