Follow up to the June 28 Balance Update Preview

[Komodoro.2976]

I'm just here to state:
"This is the problem with blogs and tickets/suggestion boxes"

If none of us read w/e we are writing as a community, do you think Arenanet as a company reads w/e we write as a community?
I'm going to ask Steve Jobs what he thinks, brb.

This is how I'd describe perfectly a Zeno's Arrow Paradox to this particular case

Edited June 28, 2022 by Komodoro.2976
Added paradox info which fits perfectly with all this. Knowledge. Lets not repeat history and be moving towards a prosperous future

[Flow.2947]

Thank you for your post and open communication.

In general. I think the problem in the community is "the Meta" and that you have to play it. you have to play alac you have to play quickness, you have to play a healer.... 

My feedback.

+ I can see the philosophy behind some changes. This patch will make it easier for future balances patches. It also will increase server performance and will decrease visual overloads for new players. 

+ I like that there are more support options viable. 

 

- My disappointment comes more from the announced it is as a "big" balance patch to all classes. while i think it is actually more a minor one. The changes are too randomly spread to be able to actually change something. especially for wvw. I keep on hoping so i don't need to play vail illu or null field, gravity well any longer. 

 

Just to compare 

2015

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23

2017

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/December_2017

2022

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features/2022-06-28

 

My hopes:

Remove quickness and alac from every player. make them a source only available from Group play Combofields/Finishers! Use combos and buff them! Eg. blast fire fields gives might. second blast gives you might + fury 3rd Blast might, fury + quickness... Leap finishers could be the same. For the individual player who is using the leap and the player which is providing the combo field.

Auras can be more dangerous as well, when you are able to stack intensity.

 

This would be a radical change and would require that ppl have to play more together "nearly" no matter what class you bring. The "golem benchmark" should finally stop setting the Meta 

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

1 hour ago, Fang.8291 said:

Great news.

For every other game out there.

Summer sales are going on. I just grabbed myself Pathfinder. It's such a brilliant classic RPG game. Seems super replayable too, so it'll likely keep me busy for the next few months until Witcher RTX patch comes along.

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

2 minutes ago, Flow.2947 said:

Thank you for your post and open communication.

In general. I think the problem in the community is "the Meta" and that you have to play it. you have to play alac you have to play quickness, you have to play a healer.... 

My feedback.

+ I can see the philosophy behind some changes. This patch will make it easier for future balances patches. It also will increase server performance and will decrease visual overloads for new players. 

+ I like that there are more support options viable. 

 

- My disappointment comes more from the announced it is as a "big" balance patch to all classes. while i think it is actually more a minor one. The changes are too randomly spread to be able to actually change something. especially for wvw. I keep on hoping so i don't need to play vail illu or null field, gravity well any longer. 

 

Just to compare 

2015

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-06-23

2017

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/December_2017

2022

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features/2022-06-28

 

My hopes:

Remove quickness and alac from every player. make them a source only available from Group play Combofields/Finishers! Use combos and buff them! Eg. blast fire fields gives might. second blast gives you might + fury 3rd Blast might, fury + quickness... Leap finishers could be the same. For the individual player who is using the leap and the player which is providing the combo field.

Auras can be more dangerous as well, when you are able to stack intensity.

 

This would be a radical change and would require that ppl have to play more together "nearly" no matter what class you bring. The "golem benchmark" should finally stop setting the Meta 

You forgot the massive 2020 patch too. Also, I agree with you on every point.

[Salt Mode.3780]

If you devs were sincere with your apology you will not release the patch tomorrow. Seems like lesson not learned. This wasn't the first patch that has received an uproar yet you guys go through with it regardless. Stop with trying to give your playbase hope, that ship has sailed 2-3 expansion ago. 

Its easier to delay a balance patch then write up a long winded essay with even more backlash just saying.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, ephixel.9708 said:

In another five to ten years you will find articles written on Guild Wars 2 dissecting it's mutilated corpse the same way people write about City of Heroes. They will document how but a few egotistical devs with the idea that a game with a legacy as strong and unique as GW2 should instead cater to their personal desire by transforming it into little more than a PC-played mobile MMO is enough to drive a playerbase that was once millions-strong into nothingness. Enjoy what your are transforming the GW2 into now, because you will go down in the history of video-games as nothing more than villains.

xaxaxa!

If they put the 2016 Joker face next to the burning money , i don't a problem with that !

But..

If that happens...:P

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Oli Can.5380]

"We made changes that the community thinks are idiotic but we promise to make changes in the future" doesnt exactly fill me with hope... Can you promise that these changes will be undone?

[Oli Can.5380]

18 hours ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

I don't mean to be rude but the blunt honest truth is, Not for me it won't.

100% this. I am uninstalling until these changes are undone. Sorry ANet, but if you dont care about my experice enough to delay a patch, then I dont care to play your game.

[Vexona.6452]

1 hour ago, Uuni.3561 said:

Tried my old thief again at EoD launch, the gloves are still bugged. No legacy code to blame. Just a low impact graphical bug on one item on one armor class on one race. No time to unstuck that one polygon vertice in 10 years.

Pre-Long Cat bug... but in all seriousness that's a terrible bug to keep in the game which seems like a simple skin fix. Oof.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Trigarta.3841 said:

Other MMO's like WoW, ESO or NW have Public Test Servers for big Patches, such as this. There the players can test out the intended changes weeks in advance and give feedback. I never understood why GW2 doesn't use that model. 

Hopefully the follow up Patch will be enough. You really need to communicate what you are going to do to fix this mess this time. If it takes a month or 2 so be it. But we need to see you are on it and don't just hush it up like other things in the past.

Not the first time someone suggests test servers. 

When everyone tested elite specs on beta events and gave dozens of pages of feedback, they didn't give a flying kitten about it. Talking about Virt, since mesmer is my main, do you know how many proposed changes got implemented? None. Heck, even bugs detected on betas are still to be fixed. 

So test servers are just a wasting of everyone's time as long as the balance team remains the same. 

 

[Xevius.6174]

An interesting development since Friday.

First of all, it's not okay what's being said about Solar here and on Reddit. Some statements in the Discord "Leaks" are a bit questionable, but definitely not a reason to hate him so much.
According to the "leaks" he also has some very good approaches and ideas, which in my opinion would do the game good others may not.
The balance patch itself should be criticized. We as players do not know what ArenaNet plans to do in the next 6 or 12 months. For us, THIS PATCH is crucial and if it worsens the situation or does not seem properly thought out, it should be criticized constructively.

ArenaNet has unfortunately often made promises and not kept them, which is why the confidence of the players in the improvement of the situation is more than scratched.

The patch tomorrow we can no longer change but perhaps the following in 2-4 weeks.

As a player, you only have the option to wait and constructively seek the (albeit unfortunately on the part of the dev's always very one-sided) dialogue or to look for a new game if you are permanently dissatisfied with the situation.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Not the first time someone suggests test servers. 

When everyone tested elite specs on beta events and gave dozens of pages of feedback, they didn't give a flying kitten about it. Talking about Virt, since mesmer is my main, do you know how many proposed changes got implemented? None. Heck, even bugs detected on betas are still to be fixed. 

So test servers are just a wasting of everyone's time as long as the balance team remains the same. 

 

If we are going to have test server, then we must stop balancing around the dps meters (hehehhe yes plz!)

Some classes that are complex -have utilities tools , should do less/more dps.

They only problem in the high end  people wont take some classes , which if that happesn the non-welcomed  are welcomed in our ranks.

We may not KP/LI or high dps , but we have big casual hearts!

It doesnt mater if your Crit character can  reach 32k , rather than "best option-not draggin the rest" 39kdps , we will still love you with our 6k !

Edited June 28, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sydaphex.4286]

Alliances when?

[MrRugenn.8795]

Incredibly tone-deaf. 

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Toxidity is never good and not warranted.

On your part though, I would simply love to see an indepth responce on the concerns.

This is a post that does not adress the actual concerns at all, nor have I ever seen a post where it adresses concerns on content.

People are passionate about the game, otherwise they would not care to even provide feedback. Some cross the line, absolutely disagree with that, let that be known.

But, the lack of responce on the actual content changes released here, and previously, is what makes people doubt the future.

Some of the changes are, unlogical. When you read over them and consider what was taken and given back, seriously are unlogical. The time frame in which this "might" get adressed (I read 5 months) is too long and potentially damaging for your game's population. 

We need the "why" and we need to answers to the concerns we have. 

You cannot adress every single concern raised, I understand that, but start by the ones most commonly expressed. Just pick one, and adress it.

I also think maybe a public test server would suit you well. Testing with a player base (even if it would be a select group) would give so much more data and real time results. Tons of players passionate about the game would love testing things out.

All in all, I do welcome your efforts for more communications, but do want to adress the lack of communication on actual content and concerns. 

[OniniKanabo.4758]

Uh...seems like WvW get left behind....no wonder...which is sad.....After EoD relsie there is lots of profession mechanics who dont work at all....nerf dmg..more healing...useless changes in patch...where this game heading to?ngl disappointed..... guessing need to start look for another mmo 😞

[soulknight.9620]

Just now, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I also think maybe a public test server would suit you well. Testing with a player base (even if it would be a select group) would give so much more data and real time results. Tons of players passionate about the game would love testing things out.

Enough with that "public test server". We have seen how it "worked" with beta 2 of elite specs. Test servers are pointless if no feedback is listened to. Just let them do their job, cause well you know they are qualified devs (regardless of what you may think based on emotions) that are getting paid for the job. We are not here to do their jobs, we are here to play the game. However that doesnt mean we shouldnt demand some level of quality from them when it comes to patches/content. 

[prototypedragon.1406]

A recommendation I propose as a warrior main that has at least 8,000 hours  and 12,000 account hours ,over the course of 10 years of being apart of GW2. The community has offered many suggestions over the course of many different instances across the forums in the hopes of helping to improve the game along with anet. Granted yes not everything will be decided to be the next update. Even so perhaps if each traitline (Start with basegame traitlines) would get its own separate discussion forum that is viewed by anet and created by anet. First use the specific trait forum as a way of asking the community to list the positives and negatives of each traitline and specific traits. Then from there depends on what can be taken from the suggested improvements/ areas that need improvement focus on the ones that have the most desire to be fixed first. Then create a voting forum that the community themselves can vote upon to view which change is most recommend(include the reasoning behind them including the good points players recommend not naming the individuals but make it clear that their suggestions were read.) and compare that data with the number of hours that class is played and which area of content the trait is being used the least and most. Improve( areas(example being wvw pve or pvp) used the least most). By least and the most I mean in all 3 areas that the trait is used.From there do the same for weapons next for each class. If changes that players feel they get to participate in and know what may be on the horizon with the reasoning behind it will help to move the game future forward in a positive direction. I know this is not a perfect suggestion but I ask only to give some parts of it some reading over. Guild Wars2 was my very first mmo and I have played this game for years as a guild leader I don't want people to feel that they are pressured to play other classes then what they themselves like to play. I like many others know that balancing is not a easy job and if we can, we all want to help with it. If it means we as a community  can come together for the sake of preserving and sharing the world of tyria with all new players moving forward. Increase class diversity with the help of your community is all that I ask.

[BeardedBacon.9328]

So what I'm hearing... Is there weren't any design notes to begin with... and you guys are gonna just jumble up some nice sounding package of "this is why we made the changes"

Ill write it for you in 2 lines: the same way we gave up on writing a cohesive story, we got tired of classes/specs having unique thematics so we've given every single class the option to do everything, don't worry, guardian can still do it better than everyone! Now that everyone's feeling special about their main class and getting legendary armor will be more accessible you have no reason to make alts aside from fashion wars reasons 🙂 

[Ruisenior.6342]

1 minute ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

A recommendation I propose as a warrior main that has at least 8,000 hours  and 12,000 account hours ,over the course of 10 years of being apart of GW2. The community has offered many suggestions over the course of many different instances across the forums in the hopes of helping to improve the game along with anet. Granted yes not everything will be decided to be the next update. Even so perhaps if each traitline (Start with basegame traitlines) would get its own separate discussion forum that is viewed by anet and created by anet. First use the specific trait forum as a way of asking the community to list the positives and negatives of each traitline and specific traits. Then from there depends on what can be taken from the suggested improvements/ areas that need improvement focus on the ones that have the most desire to be fixed first. Then create a voting forum that the community themselves can vote upon to view which change is most recommend(include the reasoning behind them including the good points players recommend not naming the individuals but make it clear that their suggestions were read.) and compare that data with the number of hours that class is played and which area of content the trait is being used the least and most. Improve( areas(example being wvw pve or pvp) used the least most). By least and the most I mean in all 3 areas that the trait is used.From there do the same for weapons next for each class. If changes that players feel they get to participate in and know what may be on the horizon with the reasoning behind it will help to move the game future forward in a positive direction. I know this is not a perfect suggestion but I ask only to give some parts of it some reading over. Guild Wars2 was my very first mmo and I have played this game for years as a guild leader I don't want people to feel that they are pressured to play other classes then what they themselves like to play. I like many others know that balancing is not a easy job and if we can, we all want to help with it. If it means we as a community  can come together for the sake of preserving and sharing the world of tyria with all new players moving forward. Increase class diversity with the help of your community is all that I ask.

That would be amazing i would add also separated posts for utilities and weapon skills

[Darkstalix.5183]

Anyone who even attempted to threat the devs or whatever is an a**
No matter what are the changes nobody should do this its ridiculous no matter what and should be instabanned in my opinion
I understand the frustration cause yes i am too since some changes dont make sense but im glad we will get the "why" in the end.
On the other hand there are some classes that are not even touched while they are the meta since EoD.
Was there really a reason to get reapers like this? i cant wait to read why

[Bred.3582]

Honestly this follow up is just as bad as the patch. I don't understand how a developer can look at this and tell the community that their feedback matters. You are  pushing through essentially your most hated update to date, to create this patch you allowed a dev to buff the class he likes, with no real reasoning given, while ignoring an entire discord specifically crafted to have the best players the game has to offer give their input on balance, especially for a dev who needs to use the wiki to balance because he can't actually be bothered to play every class and learn its mechanics, even if it's purely for research, as a main balance dev. All you've shown is that at the end of the day, your consumers really don't matter to you and you're completely out of touch. It's just disappointing that this patch and surrounding issues is ignorance and malice that Anet doesn't care to correct in order to make Guild Wars 2 a better and more enjoyable experience.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Bred.3582

[Dante.1508]

I'm sorry after reading developer leaks and his spiteful attitude i have been seriously debating what i'm going to be doing with GW2 after this patch.. Your damage control post wont be helping because you say the same things we'll listen we'll fix, you don't and look where we are now.. Look at this patch, this anger, the desperation from your customers.. Do you really think this is all new.

 

You made your bed with developers like Solar and his bias opinions, players are tired and no longer believe you.

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

Can anyone help me out here? Is it the lack of something or that they touched something sensitive 

 

3 hours ago, Forestnator.6298 said:

I read through the patch notes and I like most of the changes. Cannot understand all the hate.

Leaked conversations with a dev showed arrogance toward players and naked personal bias in some balance choices. I'm not allowed to link it here. An anonymized version exists on Reddit.

Players have been waiting for a signficant balance patch for a long time, and ANet pitched this one as a more expansive one without giving giving enough details for people to understand what to expect. There was a certain measure of anticipation built up.

These two things, as I perceive it, made a bad patch go from a spark to a fire.

[FunKCX.4197]

Josh, throughout the years, your balance team has been stripping away certain identical traits from classes that made them incredibly fun. One that I can think of right now is the chronomancer's ability to share distortion/dodge with allies. Not limiting them down to 2 or 3 allies, but COMPLETELY removing it.

Many older classes have been nerfed to the point where it just isn't fun to play the classes anymore. It makes the game not fun to play. And when the game's not fun to play, then why should we keep playing it?

Josh, Anet unfortunately has been given us this type of response so many times, that we've grown increasingly weary from it. This ends up feeling like another lip-service to many of us, with actions being taken at a painfully slow pace. It makes the words you carried over feel weightless, while a loss of faith is growing from the community. 

Gosh, I do not condone threats of violence from niches, but because of many false promises, some that were delivered many years later, I personally am even starting to question the claims of death threats being valid, because of the lacks of evidence I have witnissed from many sources. Those, to me, feel like mere claims without any proof to back up the substance.

Whilst on the other side of the spectrum, evidences has been shown that your staff-members have been working AGAINST the community. 

Your balance team is a mess right now that is in NEED of a clean-up.

Your decision to stand with your colleagues is respectable to a degree, but obviously will have negative consequences to everybody involved.

I do wish the best for you and the company you represent and hope for much better days in the future.

Edited June 28, 2022 by FunKCX.4197
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